AI discussion thread

[mister dog]

Mods close me down if this was raised before, but my search function on AI in thread titles didn't produce any hits.

And as it is for me the biggest flaw in this beautiful game series, it is certainly worth discussing.

I as many others here, am annoyed at their slowness, their overbraking before entering a corner, and their blindness in general (apart from when you are in front of them and they fall into panic atacks, holding the gass and letting you go)...

Also they follow the exact same lines over and over; restart a race and you'll see those 2 bots are next to eachother on the same spot at the same moment, probably being in your way and holding you up bigtime yet again.

Why o why is so much effort put into making the driving physics perfect and the cars real to life, and nothing is done to make the races interesting. The whole game is based on the chase the rabbit format now, because of this, because if you have to pass 11 cars in 5 laps at least there is a challenge...


Now 2 questions;

- Do you agree or not, what is your opinion?
- What would you like to see changed to the AI and the race format?

 

[JackC8]

I think that whole rabbit and blockers thing is pretty ridiculous. I was doing a race last night and finished 20 seconds behind the 1st place car - and 30 seconds in front of the 3rd place car. It forces you to use a car that can drive past everybody like they're sitting still just to catch the leader, and I don't think that's anybody's idea of "racing".

Other than that I don't have much problem with the AI. It's a thousand times better now than it was at launch. It's silly the way you can come up behind the leader and he'll slow down and get off the side so you can pass, like he's 5 laps down or something, but I'll take that any day over the way it used to be with them just following the racing line, oblivious to the players existence on the track, driving straight through you whenever you got in its way.

 

[mr_serious]

I agree, it is why I just don't play the game anymore except for the occasional drive around the ring in practice mode.

There's once single complaint that has been raised about every edition of GT since GT1 and that is this same one, after 5 releases and so many, many years thinking this is the one where they will actually make the AI worth racing and they have still failed.

It would certainly have been a big ask for the PS1 & PS2, but other games on the PS3 have shown it is possible to create far more realistic computer controlled opposition than PD have ever managed.

I would rather they rebuilt the AI from scratch than add all the ridiculous 'guff' they spent their time adding to GT5.

The crap AI destroys the 'sim' moniker they like to apply to their game. Chase the rabbit is about as far from real racing as it is possible to get. It is the most arcadey game I have played in years.

I think that whole rabbit and blockers thing is pretty ridiculous. I was doing a race last night and finished 20 seconds behind the 1st place car - and 30 seconds in front of the 3rd place car. It forces you to use a car that can drive past everybody like they're sitting still just to catch the leader, and I don't think that's anybody's idea of "racing".

Other than that I don't have much problem with the AI. It's a thousand times better now than it was at launch. It's silly the way you can come up behind the leader and he'll slow down and get off the side so you can pass, like he's 5 laps down or something, but I'll take that any day over the way it used to be with them just following the racing line, oblivious to the players existence on the track, driving straight through you whenever you got in its way.

but the reason for the rabbit game is that the AI is not good enough to stand qualifying, standing starts or anything else. The poor AI is the sole reason why there is no proper racing format in the game.

 

[Bottoz]

My main gripe is the distance between 1st and 3rd. There's never a tight 1/2/3/... finish. In a 5 lap race, you have 2 laps to get to 2nd... 2 laps by yourself and 1 lap to pass 1st.

 

[Piotrov]

There is never any real battle for position. It's always pass and move on to the next opponent. Very repetitive and dull.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Although there are ways to make racing against the AI interesting, I agree that it would be nice if the made the AI alittle bit better.

 

[diegorborges]

I really think you guys must be real good, or some of you may play only with Racing Softs or whatever.

Just had a blast on A-Spec. Tuning Car Battle, Suzuka... used a fully tuned 350Z with Sports Medium tires.

Finished 9th because I crashed when I was 4th on 3rd lap.

I've had the HKS Lancer pissing me off in the battle for 4th place... we changed positions 4 times...

Had similar scenario on La Festa Cavallino with stock F430.

Did you guys tried A-Spec again? With adequate cars of course...

It's FAR from perfect. Still needs improvement, but they are making progress.

 

[King1982]

I agree with your statements. The thing that irritates me the most is the way they slow down in corners. Those guys are cowards. I found FM4 ai too be very good and very competive. Some say they are TOO agressive, i beg too differ. They follow real race protocol. I you pass them cleanly they wont bother you, but when you hit them in the corner too pass them and cheat they WILL get back at you. Some of the drivers has theyre own personality. Due too the drivatar tech build in. They can be slow but once you hit season 6 the ai will become much less prone too error and their speed is vastly increased. They will take some corners as fast if not faster than you.

Pd needs too really step it up with gt6 because this was something that was wrong since day one and hasn't really been improved uppon. 👎

Take some lessons from T10.

 

[axl54]

Ai is far too scripted, they're basically scaletrix zombies following the same lines ad infinitum, until the player is right on top of them, then they brake and surrender, making the SP a really dull and repetitive experience.
I've been playing since Gt1, and sadly zombie AI has always been synonmous with the series. It has been improved, but nowhere near enough. If PD don't finally provide some dynamic and interesting AI, and conseqeuntly Sp racing in Gt6, then I'll be giving a Gt game a miss for the first time. I loathe the boring AI in this series, and I think It's apalling that 5 games in, it's still so lacking.

 

[lebes14]

It's really irritating how "dumb" the ai is. Makes aspec useless. As has been mentioned before this chase the rabbit format needs to go. I like rfactor's set up a good bit, the ai was pretty good, good enough to make qualifying worth it and fun. If there was qualifying in GT you would never see any opponents.

 

[Jawehawk]

Game needs the AI from Race '07. At least judging from the demo of that game, the AI was amazing.

 

[mister dog]

Although there are ways to make racing against the AI interesting, I agree that it would be nice if the made the AI alittle bit better.

Only if you handicap yourself seriously, ending up with same deal of legging behind on the straights, and blasting them in every corner.
Sad we have to do that to have a close race...

I think PD could learn a lot from the codemaster AI, like in their F1 and DIRT games. there the AI pushes you, regularly overtakes you and is fast. Which makes the races fun.

 

[Lion-Face]

I don't race the AI much, but from what I have I can't complain. If you pick a car and slap racing softs on, I expect to blast the AI away. If you run more realistic tires, no aids and respect the AI as a fellow racer, they can be very competitive, side by side battles etc. It's only as hard as you make it.

 

[Samus]

I don't race the AI much, but from what I have I can't complain. If you pick a car and slap racing softs on, I expect to blast the AI away. If you run more realistic tires, no aids and respect the AI as a fellow racer, they can be very competitive, side by side battles etc. It's only as hard as you make it.

Put simply if you race the AI in equal cars and equal tyres you will win with ease. It only gets hard when you a) hamper your car on purpose so it's worse or b) start a long way behind the AI. We can do the first option, PD takes care of the second.

 

[Capp96100]

I agree with you. I do not like this format but I would like the races themselves. With qualifying and the race starting from the grid. For example, the AI ​​for F1 2011 is much faster and more competitive at higher levels. Because Codemasters can create this AI? Why in GT5 is so stupid but especially SLOW?!?!?

the AI ​​is too slow and boring. Not exploit the power of the car. In GT5 I have never fought against the AI​​. I always won very easily in arcade mode, which is in A-Spec. such a thing is unacceptable. I always use cars less powerful and less efficient tires, but I win without problems.

Sorry for my bad english.

 

[Samus]

What is annoying is that PD know how fast the cars should be going and can take certain corners because they set the times in the license tests and now the GT Academy. They can program an AI example to take these corners pretty quickly but then the 'normal' AI are considerably slower when it comes to actually racing on those corners. For some reason they can't, or won't program them to consistently lap faster.

 

[Maas]

I've had this thing now, I started doing some more A-spec rather than online races, and I only noticed it yesterday.

When you are passing a car, it brakes? Like when you are side to side on a straight, the AI next to you will just brake and hold the pack behind you up.

Anybody noticed this as well?

 

[research]

I've had this thing now, I started doing some more A-spec rather than online races, and I only noticed it yesterday.

When you are passing a car, it brakes? Like when you are side to side on a straight, the AI next to you will just brake and hold the pack behind you up.

Anybody noticed this as well?

Oh yeah, just watch the replay and change view to the AI car getting passed- and watch his inputs. I haven't seen them brake as much as they just lift off the throttle.

 

[Drevenger]

What I hate about AI
No surprise and too few patterns.
When I was doing 650pp seasonal its boring to always expect the same cars at the same exact place over and over, I dont need any display and I know if i'm faster or slower based on wheres the cars on the track. I always encounter the blue Calsonic Impul JGTC followed by the orange Arta NSX. Its always the same unless you race against yourself or Online .

 

[byegad]

Madrid 650pp Aspec says it all. With monotonous regularity it's pass no 11 and 10 on the way to the first roundabout, Pass no 9 on the next straight then 8 and 7 before the right hand curve to the last roundabout and so on. Get one pass wrong and there's no way you can win as the rabbit is long gone. Also the AI drivers will barge you if they can. Frankly I understand why experienced online drivers complain of newbies hitting them the A spec and Arcade games encourage contact.

Similarly the new Tsukuba race needs some muscling past opponents once you start using lower pp values.

 

[leenis24]

The AI sucks, too slow in corners. They are good on the straights, but come to a corner and they act like they are scared they wont make it. lol. The group of cars should be bunched up a little closer too. Racing is supposed to be exciting and break neck, not dull and boring. They should add like 10-15% more speed to the AI in corners.

 

[marcus_war]

The AI show good speed in a straight line. But the very mention of a faster car on their scanners makes their heart sink down their intestines and they feel the need to either brake for no apparent reason in front of you, or give up.

Their overall speed needs to be relative to what the cars can do, not what they feel they can do. Their lines also need to be adjusted.


Here's something that they really need: Balls! IRL if you get scared easily and give up position when your car is faster than you're driving it, then you have no business being on the racetrack.


Pit Strategy: Again, this is something that the AI lacks big time. Races are won and lost with Pit Strategy, and it is such a shame that they make no attempt to use this to their advantage. Every other racing game had AI who had some sort of Pit Strategy, and it changed from race to race. If GT5 AI pit when their strength goes away completely, then it's already too late.


Aggressiveness: This is one area that PD had made some strides of ****ing progress. Unfortunately, this progress only came in arcade mode. While it's good that you can adjust the aggressiveness of the AI, setting it to 10 only increased their cornering speed by a little bit. But overall, I can actually say that of the few arcade races that I've run, they've been fun ones and relatively close ones. In fact, I've got some photos of one race at SSR7

I was in the S13 and there was a really fast Lotus Esprit HC (third pic, first car behind my S13) in the field as well.


Now all that PD need to do is apply this to A-Spec, and modify it to where the AI is more aggressive in one-make and racing car events, not as agressive in the lower ranks, but still much more aggressive in the corners than they are now.

 

[XEPEGTP]

Just import Arcade AGG10 AI to Aspec simple. GT has to be the ONLY game that is more challenging in Arcade mode (damage depletion aggressiveness and very even matchups.

 

[masterrawad]

Polyphony Digital: swallow your pride and hire Criterion Ganes for crash mechanics. (OT) Have you guys seen the damage when you crash in burnout paradise? Even if it is a bit farfetched it would still be better than the current damage model , right?

 

[Dodzzz]

The game has become something more like: DODGE THE AI rather than Race the AI

 

[MVR08]

Polyphony Digital: swallow your pride and hire Criterion Ganes for crash mechanics. (OT) Have you guys seen the damage when you crash in burnout paradise? Even if it is a bit farfetched it would still be better than the current damage model , right?

Have you ever seen the AI trying to overtake an opponent? they can't do it without hitting their backs, now imagine a race like that with realistic damage...

They need to fix and overhaul the AI's behavior on track before trying realistic damage.

 

[Samus]

Polyphony Digital: swallow your pride and hire Criterion Ganes for crash mechanics. (OT) Have you guys seen the damage when you crash in burnout paradise? Even if it is a bit farfetched it would still be better than the current damage model , right?

That sort of damage is only possible because the cars are unlicensed. GRID still has the best licensed damage but that was at the expense of vehicle physics and was only 50 or so cars, not 1000.

 

[masterrawad]

That sort of damage is only possible because the cars are unlicensed. GRID still has the best licensed damage but that was at the expense of vehicle physics and was only 50 or so cars, not 1000.

What about need for speed hot pursuit 2010? It had completely licensed cars with an above average damage model.

Funny thing is, criterion games helped with this game

 

[Moontallico]

Polyphony Digital: swallow your pride and hire Criterion Ganes for crash mechanics. (OT) Have you guys seen the damage when you crash in burnout paradise? Even if it is a bit farfetched it would still be better than the current damage model , right?

Yea, even GTA IV damage mechanics are much more advanced. I simply love to crash the cars there.

 

[Jerwin]

The AI is quite good in Arcade mode IMO. With the right tyres, the AI seems to be harder to catch, with stock cars at least. Racing Hard on LMPs on Nurburgring will definitely be a challenge. Couple that without making the slightest bump against the other cars and its pure fun. That's how I keep myself entertained with the incredibly slow AI