AI slow down to let you win.

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by Alss, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. Uday9479

    Uday9479

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    There should've been a difficulty mode for AI's as well. Easy, difficult & hard to pass.

    Then even not winning the races would be fun as each lap would be like a battle.
     
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  2. Leonidae@MFT

    Leonidae@MFT Premium

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    Yesterday, I raced in the IA Tour of Japan, Suzuka event. I was in 250bhp Civic with comfort softs. Leader was.. *drumroll* LFA. Guess who won?

    Yup. Me. I got mad VTec yo.
     
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  3. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    Post the video. Let's see.
     
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  4. Crowood

    Crowood

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    I really struggled yesterday in the 600PP Touring car series in IA. I entered the race in the ZR1 RM, detuned to 600HP about 613PP. The Ford GT LM spec II (that black one) was not beatable in my Vette on 2 of the 3 races, i raced as fast as i could, no chance.
    I enterd the same races again...it was even worse against the Mclaren F1 race car AND the Ford GT LM spec II. They just pulled miles away on any straight line. I was able to win those races once the ZR1 RM was set to 750HP and nearly 650PP.
     
  5. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Got David vs Goliath trophy ( sounds cool ) driving my J's Racing S2000 replica ( 280PS-320PS around 460/470+PP) in IB Tuned Car Festival event races at Cape Ring and Apricot Hill, the leader and runner up are AEM S2000 and Mine's R34 GTR with sports soft/racing hard ? I was on comfort soft - no ABS or other aids, the challenge is driving cleanly passing each car and battling the last half of the lap with the leader, the pesky AEM S2000 could outrun me in a dime, I had to block on the last straight to get the win. With similar power car I can see that the AI is deliberately allowing player to win, but when I got a lot slower car - a lot less PP, somehow several cars are very aggressive after I passed them, several occasions they were trying to either pit maneuver me or rammed me off the road ( usually in the last lap )
     
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  6. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    Because those faster AI cars let you pass, they are coded to do so.
    Once you go ahead of them their AI code return to "normal" therefore they ram you because you either block them and they are not coded properly to outbrake you as they should.
     
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  7. Brend

    Brend Premium

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    I don't have a direct record facility but I will record it on my phone, it has a good camera.
     
  8. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    Cool, because i still have to see some remotely competive AI in GT6 and since you are an expert user I'm looking forward to your report.
     
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  9. Cosbuster

    Cosbuster

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    The more I play, the more the AI resembles mere obstacles that have been placed on top of the racing line. Might as well remove them altogether and make every race a time trial, at least it'll be more honest.
     
  10. Brend

    Brend Premium

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    I wouldn't call myself an expert user but I will upload the video my friend. :D
     
  11. avens

    avens

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    Yeah, that event is absurd (or VTEC is). Annihilated it with a stock S2000.
     
  12. HBK

    HBK

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    Actually, it was already the case in previous GT's.

    It was just camouflaged sooo much better.

    Right now it's so "in your face" that even when not thinking about it you catch it after a few championships.

    And when you know that, man those "races" start losing all kind of interest pretty quick.

    I mean, it's a game and the devs setup the difficulty how they want.

    But the way it's setup right now ? It wouldn't even make sense in a NFS game. How is it supposed to make sense in a "sim" game ?

    I'm halfway trough the "career", 16 hours of actual driving, and I'm bored already. Granted, all GT games did that at some point. But even GT5 lasted me way longer than that. Even with all it's flaws (and man aren't they numerous), it kept my interest for quite some time. Now I just don't want to play GT6 anymore.

    It's sad, the driving is great and track diversity is unparalleled (on consoles anyway). But the AI just bores me and I'm not really into time attack.
     
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  13. Brend

    Brend Premium

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    This is the last 4 mins odd of the aforementioned race. You can see a rare sight, the Viper driving very defensive which causes me to have some issues getting by him, and then he continues to pressure me! GT-R was untuned. Running racing hards.
     
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  14. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    I guess it's more PD jeopardizing the whole thing than any VTEC magic.
    WOW brilliant video! Insane battle. Was that a race car only event? (I hope so). Are there other race car events with similar AI?
     
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  15. Brend

    Brend Premium

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    It was one of the '15 Minute events' in the iA section, there is a PP limit of 650 and all of the cars that enter are GT3, Rally or Touring. Some of the stuff is exciting as hell, my favorite event by far at the moment! I'm glad you liked it. :)
     
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  16. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    You could create a thread with all these exciting races, posting videos time to time. As it stands now GT6 does not appeal me but if there's a way to have some fun out of it I want to see what you can do. All the people here should follow your advices, afterall that's why we are all here, for the FUN. :tup:
     
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  17. Brend

    Brend Premium

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    The problem is though, I am entirely convinced the reason the 15 minute races are more exciting is because PD haven't coded the AI to slow down in these races as there is no 'last lap', the lap based races still suck for the most part. :( Have you seen the special event between the GT-Rs at silverstone you do early in the game? Another awesome race! I have a video of that I could upload if you want to see more evidence there is decent AI somewhere within the game...
     
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  18. TakeshiSkunk

    TakeshiSkunk

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    I've definitely been noticing this, much faster cars with huge leads practically stopping on the track to let me pass on the final lap.

    It's disappointing, but really I can't remember the last time I found AI opponents interesting at all in any racing game. I'd honestly prefer pretty much every racing game to have single player modes composed entirely of time attacks, that's infinitely more engaging to me.

    It's just like a fighting game, unless you're actually up against a real person there's no point in pretending.
     
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  19. HuskyGT

    HuskyGT

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    Okay. As I progress through the game, I must say that the A.I is no better than in GT5. It almost feels like the bastard child of GT4's and GT5's A.I.

    At least in GT5 they did see you.

    Then there is the thing were you can unexpectedly win with much slower cars, even though the A.I has a huge advantage. I did Fighting Muscle in the Boss 302 and I thought it was a terrible choice considering that the A.I was on a Ford GT and a ZR1 C6 (1st and 2nd respectively). In the first two laps they A.I was gaining almost a second per track section, until they reached an advantage of 10+ seconds. But I decided to continue and finish the race, even if I ended up in 3rd.

    To my surprise, in the last lap, the GT and ZR1 appeared in my field of vision and I had dropped almost 8 seconds in just half a lap. That is impossible. I ended up winning the race... in a 440HP Mustang... Against a 630HP Corvette meant for going really fast and a 560HP MR Supercar...
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
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  20. Morphisor

    Morphisor

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    For some reason, I have found that the slowdown effect is pretty much everywhere, except in the 600PP Touring Car championship races!

    I have not yet driven all events though, so maybe there are others?
    I also wonder why this one set of races lacks this strange behaviour.
     
  21. stb155

    stb155

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    I had fun in the IA GT-World Championship using the BMW V12 LMR (stock, RH)
    ALL* aids off
    AI is still to slow, but overtaking is fun and if you overtake the leader in time he does not slow down and follows you and puts some pressure on (at least for 1-2 laps)

    *that should be
    Active steering OFF (and steering to simulation) in the steering setup
    Steering aid OFF
    SRF OFF
    ASK (Stability) OFF
    TC 0
    ABS 0
    Racing line OFF
    Gear advice OFF
    Map OFF

    Why they have to make the AI slowdown so much if there are all those aids available ?:drool:
     
  22. Tmortn

    Tmortn

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    Beginning to wonder if perhaps all of us that are long time veterans are running afoul of some of our learned behaviors.

    Regarding the give up nature of the AI I think a lot of us are running afoul of our hard learned lesson to take a lower powered car into a race if we want any kind of challenge. However to keep from triggering the 'mercy rule' in the GT6 AI you seem to need to get in contact with the lead pack (or rabbit as the case may be) as soon as possible, first lap if at all possible. If you do they do not give an inch... They are still pretty dumb, but at least they are dumb with the go pedal glued to the floor when it should be. Reading through the threads on this it seems to be pretty consistent that when you have an equal car to the rabbit and you clear the field early you can get a decent race. In the past you selected the lowest powered car that let you hit a bogey lap time to close on the leader towards the end of the race. Here it seems you have to judge a bit differently.

    I am beginning to think the mercy rule is triggered by a combination of pp and gap to the leader. Ie even if you close the gap in a lower powered car you may find it playing dead until you get by. When you have a pp similar car they seem to fight you for position period.

    Best example I have had of this was in the A classic muscle Matterhorn race. I could run it with a Shelby Mustang and I would get in in touch with the rabbit cobra with a chance to win pretty much as long as I kept it on the track. Reloaded with a stock cobra myself and had a lead pack of two cobras And a GT40. If I cleared the field on the first couple of sweepers with the 3rd place GT40 in sight it was a tooth and nail fight to the finish. Goof up and fail to close early then by the end of lap two they would fall back to me pretty much regardless of what I did but would not give me a pass "to the front like they would when I was in the mustang.

    The problem is not all tracks make it feasible to clear the field cleanly with a car that can't also easily outrun the rabbit. The Matterhorn race was the example for me, but all the examples I have seen on here Consisted of fairly evenly matched cars and someone able to close on the lead pack early. What sucks is There is now much more variation into what makes for a competitive race. In 5, once you knew the rough lap times of a race the only real variable that screwed things up was an outlier rabbit with a lot faster or slower pace. Now you have additional wrinkles that throw things off. And to add insult to injury the wrinkles tend to put a finger on the scale to get you to the checkers first. In the past you just got toasted if you picked the wrong car or failed to hit the minimum needed lap times.

    Something else I have noticed that not a lot of folks are talking about is that the AI will respect you if you are cleanly in position on the line ( as defined by the game) . Swing across it and you are fair game. Hold it and brake in the braking zones (yellow to red indication when the racing line is showing) and the AI will be very conservative around you and typically only pass if they are significantly faster on a straight long enough to get a run on you. Run your own line or swing out to block on a strait and you will lose no matter how clearly you are in position if they come in contact.

    The frustrating thing here is you can run afoul of this with a slightly over cooked corner where you hold a clean line on recovery but you are enough off center that the AI runs the line without regard for the fact you bumper is still in the way... Spin. Seems you are on the line so long as it is between the wheels as opposed to closely centered. And you need to be there before the braking zones for entering a corner.

    Discovered this on night masters at Bathurst in a GT 86 vs an NSX. Hold the line and the NSX backed off then pulled out on the straits. Leave the line the NSX went back full bore and knocked me around. This has been very repeatable for me in other cases as well.

    It is still dumber than it was in 5, but in 5 the AI pretty much gave ground to you regardless. If the AI cars reacted to contact the way a player car does this wouldn't be so bad. Getting spun most times would screw the AI responsible for the spin as well instead of them shoving past like you don't exist.

    Finally as many have pointed out the higher level races seem to have less 'mercy' but are not immune. The one type races like karts and red bull jr seem to be set on kill from start to finish.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
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  23. sumbrownkid

    sumbrownkid

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    It's pretty dumb to see everyone blow past you in the kart races at the start but then slow down near the end.
     
  24. stb155

    stb155

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    I try to tell that since a week...

    But if people have fun in first loosing 5sec. a lap first half of the race and then getting gifted back 10sec. a lap in 2nd half and "overtake" much stronger opponents that are crawling around corners only to get pushed around by them on the next straight where they have to block them... well have "fun" with that, but not my cup of tea.

    I have more fun with taking a equal car, without aids and try to catch them as fast as possible to make them race me instead of waiting for me.
    Does not work every time but at least i have fun driving fast in a proper car and not skidding around in low LP s...box on hard comfort.

    This is bit a question of skill, if you know the track well and how to drive the cart you can keep up from the start and not have to rely on them to slow down on last place.
    Edit: Not saying that they never had to wait for me ;)
     
  25. Bo

    Bo Premium

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    The kart AI in the Red Bull challenge helped me out a little when they crashed into each other. It wasn't a small tap either, three of them had contact which put two of them into the wall, backwards, and in a large cloud of smoke. They even hit each other when they were trying to reverse. Thanks guys for clearing out of my way :cheers:.
     
  26. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    I got the solution for our problems: give the AI bald tires and they become awesome. LOL, just had this when playing at the Ascari "endurance" race. The AI tires went worn and they became completely bonkers. It was awesome to watch:

     
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  27. Kurei

    Kurei

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    The only challenge from the AI that I've had, was that GT-R vs GT-R 1-lap battle mission, only AI guy to have put up a fight that wasn't just "chase the rabbit".
     
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  28. Bo

    Bo Premium

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    The Corvette mission at Willow Springs was also quite entertaining, the C5 attempted to pass me up the inside a few times. Only question is, why can't all AI be like that?
     
  29. MrUnknown

    MrUnknown (Banned)

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    What if that engine...

    ... Is an alien?

    image.jpg
     
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  30. Leonidae@MFT

    Leonidae@MFT Premium

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    Well, it did rev to..

    [​IMG]