Aids.

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As many professional and amateur racers know, in most formula of auto-racing, it is possible for a good driver to achieve a faster lap without the assistance of traction control. HOWEVER, these same professional and amateur racers will also note that a human's right foot will never equal a computer's ability to preserve a set of tires, which ultimately results in a faster overall time. That old saying "you may have won the battle..." works pretty well here.

It will be interesting to see how many people will take this into account in GT5 when tire selection/wear is a critical part of their race strategy.
 
Ha, the title of this thread is a little off-putting

I think it would be cool if traction control in pro physics mode reflected real life setups eg. cars without traction control standard have no option for traction control, and for cars with switcheable systems like modern ferraris, you can select which setting you want. I personally find it more fun and rewarding to drive with TCS off and think that certain events should require that all systems be disabled, but I can understand why some people prefer it and it would be interesting to compare times on various settings
 
Sims racers do it beacuse they want to be "Leet"
 
this might be random but why did you decide to call your title "aids" lol..
 
I think that a lot of people feel like they are being hardcore if they turn off all driving aides..

But many cars feature those driving aides in real life so outside personal preference I see no reason to turn them off.

I personally do not find it that much fun to try and control a 700+hp beast of a RWD without any traction control... I would only do it if I felt like the race was too one sided and I need to handicap myself against he competition.
 
Give Vettel a month and he will kick everybody's asses in GT5 with no aids, come on, this is rediculous.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that Sebastian Vettel won't be playing to much GT5 in the 4 months he gets of being World Champion.
 
The thing I'm wondering whether GT5 will capture is the range of for lack of a better word competence of different traction and stability control systems. In GT4 and GT5P, there was just one ... level of traction control and all it did was slow you down all over the track (except for the GT-R which was unseemingly quick).

Nowadays, cars like the 458 Italia have really, really sophisticated TCS and stability and you have to be almost supernaturally good to be faster around a track with everything off.

That said, I've found it's much easier to drive without TCS/Stability if you have a wheel and pedals where you can modulate input A LOT easier than you can using the controller.
 
Ive always found it better to drive without aids. If you enter a corner too fast, you can drift through it, but you can't do that with aids. Also I find traction control holds back the true power of the car. Turning traction control off means you have to have a gentle right foot, which takes a bit off practice to find the maximum acceleration.

In gt4 I was much faster with all aids off. In gt5p I didn't notice any difference. I think they've improved the aids, they certainly make the car easier to drive without sacrificing speed now. Easy is boring for me though.
 
I only use ABS on 1. What car nowadays comes without ABS? In the game TCS kills exit speed in my opinion but in a real car it might be the difference between backwards in a hedge or not. I reckon a computer can brake harder than in real life the aim is not to hit the ABS point.

In F1 they use no Aids, and it makes pro's slip up (Mark Webber Korea?)

Moto GP,,,,,, I'll give those guy credit. They are on a moving bullet after all and with only a rubber contact patch the size of a credit card, i wont take any credit away from them! ha ha
 
deluckyirish
I only use ABS on 1. What car nowadays comes without ABS? In the game TCS kills exit speed in my opinion but in a real car it might be the difference between backwards in a hedge or not. I reckon a computer can brake harder than in real life the aim is not to hit the ABS point.

In F1 they use no Aids, and it makes pro's slip up (Mark Webber Korea?)

Moto GP,,,,,, I'll give those guy credit. They are on a moving bullet after all and with only a rubber contact patch the size of a credit card, i wont take any credit away from them! ha ha
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In real life the best grip is available when slipping slightly. This is why traction control systems have been so useless, performance-wise, until relatively recently (at least in road cars). BMW's M dynamic traction control, or Ferrari's latest "Race mode" are probably good examples. The same applies for brakes.

Many good sports cars have interesting ABS systems that almost seem to let you push too hard before reigning in the stopping power. This allows you to drive right up to the limits of adhesion, which vary considerably in terms of absolute "slip" on the tyre, depending on many conditions. An aggressive (e.g. average road-car) ABS system could just keep getting in the way and offer marginally sub-optimal braking for the circuit, and many interfere with the pedal feel in a real car, too.

In the interests of safety, these aids are almost a necessity. But GT5 allows us to forget safety and actually drive the car, not its computers... That said, there's a lot to be said about the technology in cars like the GTR, which is designed to be stupidly fast for what it is on paper. But, on the flip-side, there's also a reason that various "aids" tend to (eventually) get banned from Formula 1. You could argue that an electrical fuel pump is an aid, given you used to have to do it manually, but that's besides the point. :dopey:

Anyway, using a wheel, I intend to drive with everything off, regardless :p
 
Racing drivers tend to turn all the aids off so they can go faster. They want to be able to spin the back tyres slightly more to be able to get around a corner faster, they want to be able to etc ... and thye have the skill to.

My view is quite simple.

Drive it as it comes.

If I buy a honda civic type R then I will drive with ABS on, TC turned on or off (as you can turn it off or on in the car), ASM on or off again and manual.

THat is how the car comes, and so if I want to drive it realistically then thats how i'll drive.


So my two guess why Vettel is using traction control are...

1) With 1400bhp and ____ of torque, might it just be (and watch out n00b patrol) that the car was designed to have traction control on? It might have been set like that on that kind of setting to allowed a bit of slip when you want it but otherwise help to control a massive amount of power?

2) Traction control turned on helps to make the car go faster as with 1400bhp your otherwise quite slow getting on the throttle, and vettel likes to ge on the throttle early so maybe he wants a bit to help get out of the corner and then can hit hard to get down the straight?



The only people who live with it all off are
1) Those who are driving cars with it all off
2) Those who want the extra challenge even if it isn't realistic
3) Those who just want the morally superior high ground and like to goad others for not driving the game 'properly'...
 
Vettel is clearly a busy guy. He probably turned up, got 30 minutes to play, and that's it. All of us can spend much more time. And we can come back to it every day.

A great real-life driver doesn't mean that they can just turn up to any computer simulation and be a master. If Vettel immediately took on the Div1 Gold guys (or even lower) he'd probably lose. He would need time to get up to speed with the physics engine, feel etc.

To be honest, I really wouldn't read much into it.
 
Everything off like I´ve been doing since the last years I had GT1. (On GT2 they didn´t really work). I think I´ll be leaving the ABS on only if the car has ABS on real life. I will turn it off on cars like the F40, old Viper, TVR´s, and others. Most race cars don´t have ABS either, but I will see if they are not that difficult to drive without it. I use both analog sticks to play Gran Turismo, so I have full control of the braking and accelerating... We´ll see... I´m sure it will be alot of fun :)
 
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deluckyirish
I only use ABS on 1. What car nowadays comes without ABS? In the game TCS kills exit speed in my opinion but in a real car it might be the difference between backwards in a hedge or not. I reckon a computer can brake harder than in real life the aim is not to hit the ABS point.

In F1 they use no Aids, and it makes pro's slip up (Mark Webber Korea?)

Moto GP,,,,,, I'll give those guy credit. They are on a moving bullet after all and with only a rubber contact patch the size of a credit card, i wont take any credit away from them! ha ha
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Moto GP bikes have traction control though. World superbikes on the other hand... Not that you can take anything away from the GP riders, they are maniacs. Besides is looks as though it will be going the way of F1 anyway (banning traction control) which will only make the sport even more exciting
 
I only set the TCS and ABS to 1. But for poops and giggles I'll turn both off for rain races.
 
I never use AIDS, even when learning a track or car. I find using AIDS makes me develop bad habits. A good driver without AIDS is usually faster than a good driver with AIDS.
 
I'm a big fan of the aids, and generally run with automatic, driving line, TCS, ASM, ABS, on to some degree. There's usually more power available than I can consistently put down anyway, and the aids drop cockpit stress, allowing me to drive fast with far less effort. It only takes one mistake to mess up a lap/race and the aids allow me to easily drive many laps without major error, even on tracks I'm not at all familiar with.

You'd all probably rather meet me online with my aids on, I'm a much more predictable driver then. And yeah, driving aids may mean I'm not the best or fastest driver in the world, but I don't have to be. I just have to be faster than the folks in the race with me.

Familiar car/track combos let me turn off aids. Just yesterday I put in a really clean prologue time with the Cappuccino on the Eiger, with nothing on but the racing line (which I always keep on). The low power of that car means that I can stand extra driving complexity, and that the aids really hurt its performance.
 
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AIDS are a disease and i will try my best as always to stay away from anything detrimental to my health.
Drift cars and Muscle cars are very weak individuals and the hush hush of the word AIDS will kill them and their dreams.
I for one want to stand up against AIDS and do what is best for the world and be honest to my tires and my limited-slip that I am one with my car/車.
We have to all keep Possy (positraction) and do our greatest to drive as fast as we can and never look back......　　;)



A yes but for real, I can't wait to turn all the assists off and do what comes natural and lay the power DOWN!!!!! :trouble:
 
It's a game, so everyone should feel free to do what brings them the most enjoyment. I usually have ABS set to 1 and the racing line on, everything else off. But this is with standard physics. Once GT5 comes out I'll use whatever settings will allow me to get the most out of the game. I'm not out to prove anything to anyone, I play the game for fun first, challenge second.
 
I always turn all driving aids off. It gives me more control of the car and makes for a more enjoyable experience imo. There are only a few extreme circumstances I can think of where I would opt to turn TCS up to 1 rather than have it off.
 
I usually turn all driving aids off in Gran Turismo. Even the first time I drive a new car. Simply because I want to feel and control the car as much as possible. Even if it takes some awful laps to get it right. I may want to rethink that when I get to try the Red Bull X1 though.
 
Erm, shouldn't the title of this thread start with AIDES , and not aids? Just sayings.
 
In North American English, "aide" is only used for a person, for example an assistant. An "aid" is indeed a form of help (noun or verb).

I guess it's not wrong since he didn't use all caps in the title? But yeah.. "Driving aids" would be less cringe-inducing.

Edit: I guess the dude sitting next to you telling you the turn severity in a rally race could be called an aide?
 
When im racing all my cars will have maximum possible power driver aids OFF so when I go round a corner I can just shout POWERRRRRR and light the rear tyres up :D
 
Raagentreg
IF we can pilot the X1 without assistance

It looks like a real behemoth of a car to drive, which begs the question really.

What's harder to control?

- PD Formula Car
- PD RBR X1

I bet I will be much more friendly with the Stratos than those two, based on my recent GTPSP tryouts of the Stratos and Formula Car, but I may take that back later...

In any case I always have Aides off, except ABS, which I will take off... eventually... after I actually start driving in real life that is...
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The X1 will prove to be a handful for me. After all this time with GT4, the Polyphony Formula Gran Turismo '04 still gives me headaches on a handful of tracks without aids turned on, and even at my fastest, I'm well off the times I've seen from others.

When I am able to pull my first clean, unassisted lap with that Redbull monster at a clip exceeding a walking pace, I'll most likely raise my arms in triumph like a dork, and proclaim myself to be the greatest driver that ever was and ever will be.

Then I'll try online racing and get my butt swiftly handed to me in my inaugural outing.

👍
 
They should reward you and extra bonus in Cr. for not using Aids.
But as i said, it's a BONUS so it would be totally optional.
 
Alan_G
Vettel is clearly a busy guy. He probably turned up, got 30 minutes to play, and that's it. All of us can spend much more time. And we can come back to it every day.

A great real-life driver doesn't mean that they can just turn up to any computer simulation and be a master. If Vettel immediately took on the Div1 Gold guys (or even lower) he'd probably lose. He would need time to get up to speed with the physics engine, feel etc.

To be honest, I really wouldn't read much into it.
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This would be true if RBR and PD didn't want feedback from a racing driver, but knowing their attention to detail, it's probably likely that they got Vettel in for well over half an hour, also we saw him working with Kaz and Newey(?) in earlier videos
 
I've enjoyed playing GT for years, most recently I purchased a G27. I am trying to become a more "complete/satisfied driver" and have started to gradually turn the Driving Aids off. Most recently I've been tring to run with ASM off and have been just having a difficult time spinning out in corners with anything not AWD. (and sometimes even spinning those!)

I've read it's a faster way to drive, and to just keep at it but I need some help and motivation. With ASM off, I drive around very timid and cautious; my lap times have risen significantly and to be honest it's just not as fun. I know I'm missing something.

Should I start over with lower powered Cappuccino's and just work my way up? What should I be thinking about and looking for in order to not be in a situation resulting in a sudden, frantic wrestling match with the wheel? I've watched and uploaded the top drivers videos, watched their lines, power and brake points but I just can't seem to get anywhere near that level.

I want to enjoy this game to it's fullest capacity, and this seems like the way to go, I just need a little help. Thanks!
 
On most games I tend to use the driving line and some traction control, for GT this is usually TCS 5 and ABS 1.

For most other games I leave the ABS off and only use TC and the driving line.
 
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