Alexander Rossi

[Northstar]

I agree with most all of your post, except this...

I see "on average" but I highly doubt that's true. Besides, how they are paid is different from the two. F1 drivers are paid via the team, while NASCAR drivers earn most of their pay through sponsorship alone...
Hendrick probably pays 1/5 the amount that Amp/Mountain Dew does...

According to Forbes, it was pretty evenly split in 2012 at least.

1) Fernando Alonso
2) Lewis Hamilton
3) Dale Earnhardt Jr.
4) Jimmie Johnson
5) Valentino Rossi
6) Tony Stewart
7) Jeff Gordon
8) Sebastian Vettel
9) Danica Patrick
10) Jenson Button

Only Earnhardt and Patrick made at least half their income via endorsements. At the end of the day, the top drivers from both series are making insane amounts of money.

 

[Earth]

I agree with most all of your post, except this...

I see "on average" but I highly doubt that's true. Besides, how they are paid is different from the two. F1 drivers are paid via the team, while NASCAR drivers earn most of their pay through sponsorship alone...
Hendrick probably pays 1/5 the amount that Amp/Mountain Dew does...

2014 F1 salaries (no endorsements) vs 2012 NASCAR salaries (no endorsements)

14.6 million on average for the top 10 F1 drivers

11.5 million on average for the top 10 NASCAR drivers

$28.00m - Fernando Alonso
$27.14m - Lewis Hamilton
$21.71m - Jenson Button
$21.71m - Sebastian Vettel
$16.30m - Jimmie Johnson
$14.93m -Nico Rosberg
$13.57m - Kimi Raikkonen
$12.90m - Dale Earnhardt Jr
$12.70m - Tony Stewart
$12.60m - Jeff Gordon
$12.20m - Carl Edwards
$11.50m - Kevin Harvick
$11.00m - Kasey Kahne
$10.00m - Brad Keselowski
$9.60m - Kyle Busch
$6.40m - Danica Patrick
$5.43m - Felipe Massa
$3.39m - Daniel Ricciardo
$2.71m - Sergio Perez
$2.04m - Romain Grosjean

 

[mustafur]

2014 F1 salaries (no endorsements) vs 2012 NASCAR salaries (no endorsements)

14.6 million on average for the top 10 F1 drivers

11.5 million on average for the top 10 NASCAR drivers

$28.00m - Fernando Alonso
$27.14m - Lewis Hamilton
$21.71m - Jenson Button
$21.71m - Sebastian Vettel
$16.30m - Jimmie Johnson
$14.93m -Nico Rosberg
$13.57m - Kimi Raikkonen
$12.90m - Dale Earnhardt Jr
$12.70m - Tony Stewart
$12.60m - Jeff Gordon
$12.20m - Carl Edwards
$11.50m - Kevin Harvick
$11.00m - Kasey Kahne
$10.00m - Brad Keselowski
$9.60m - Kyle Busch
$6.40m - Danica Patrick
$5.43m - Felipe Massa
$3.39m - Daniel Ricciardo
$2.71m - Sergio Perez
$2.04m - Romain Grosjean

going by that, F1 is definitely very top heavy, and NASCAR fills the middle, which makes sense since there is much more cars in NASCAR so there would be more front runners.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I agree with most all of your post, except this...

I see "on average" but I highly doubt that's true. Besides, how they are paid is different from the two. F1 drivers are paid via the team, while NASCAR drivers earn most of their pay through sponsorship alone...
Hendrick probably pays 1/5 the amount that Amp/Mountain Dew does...

Uh not according to Forbes, JJ makes far less than Junior because he has far less Sponsors but still makes 18-20 million and a good chunk is from driving for Hendrick. On average the top ten nascar drivers makes far more money than the top F1 drivers. Seb makes less than many of the to top NASCAR drivers and that's with 4 WDC to market.

The numbers Earth posted are skewed and the 2014 numbers are quite easy to find
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2014/02/20/nascars-highest-paid-drivers-2014/

Here is an older one for 2013
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45eejlg/1-fernando-alonso/

And it compares the top ten drivers in general (all series).

Once again as has been brought up before in other similar threads...the reason Americans for the most part don't want to race in a series that caters mainly to Europeans and makes it quite tough to climb up for those outside it, is because the money isn't guaranteed F1 is far more fickle than Indycar or NASCAR.

 

[Swagger897]

@Justin @Earth @LMSCorvetteGT2
That's not what I'm getting at with those numbers you all showed. The F1 drivers are not paid by the product but by the team through wins, and final outcome in the season. NASCAR (although I said most originally, now looking at the numbers again it is not 50% but close to half for some) pays via wins, and the drivers sponsorship, more than F1. The drivers in NASCAR are part of whatever brand sponsors them and try not to let them go, and I don't recall as many driver/sponsor swaps compared to F1 in the winter break so far. Drivers are the commodity in F1 more than NASCAR because the talent pool is so small, compared to stock car racing where the system brings you up via family (I.E. Dillon family) or you pay your way in.

Whether the money is fickle or not, doesn't really matter. It's the cost to own/operate a team in F1 which is the issue. Hendrick can add as many cars to his Sprint lineup that is possible, and not go down in flames. If anyone in F1 were to add a third/fourth car to their lineup, the profit margins would be incredibly small, even for Mercedes with their margin this year. The technology is so much more advanced, they can't afford to. If it were as simple as an efi V8 with rollbars and a sheet of metal which goes all the way around the car, F1 would be much more popular, but it isn't, because that's not what the sport is about.

 

[Earth]

How do you explain American success in MotoGP but not F1?

I cant.

 

[Swagger897]

You think two people whom are American in a sport which the machine was created in America (Indian was the first cycle company I can think of) is a surprise? That's similar to saying "Why is Britain so good at figure skating" or "Why is America so good at baseball?" The sport originated in the country, but doesn't mean those of different nationalities can't compete/aren't good..

In the case of Rossi, he isn't an Alonso, not a Button, not a Grosjean, Erickson, whoever... He isn't as competitive.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

How do you explain American success in MotoGP but not F1?

I cant.

The bike culture in the U.S. is far bigger and easier to get into than the karting and open wheel racing. The AMA provides a vast amount of racing for kids and allows them to stay in it and then if good enough race professionally, and if really good gives them enough credentials to go overseas. However, I haven't seen a new American cross overseas in some time so...Hayden is old and doesn't really provide the best example anymore.

QUOTE="Swagger897, post: 10312150, member: 204006"]@Justin @Earth @LMSCorvetteGT2
That's not what I'm getting at with those numbers you all showed. The F1 drivers are not paid by the product but by the team through wins, and final outcome in the season. NASCAR (although I said most originally, now looking at the numbers again it is not 50% but close to half for some) pays via wins, and the drivers sponsorship, more than F1. The drivers in NASCAR are part of whatever brand sponsors them and try not to let them go, and I don't recall as many driver/sponsor swaps compared to F1 in the winter break so far. Drivers are the commodity in F1 more than NASCAR because the talent pool is so small, compared to stock car racing where the system brings you up via family (I.E. Dillon family) or you pay your way in.
Whether the money is fickle or not, doesn't really matter. It's the cost to own/operate a team in F1 which is the issue. Hendrick can add as many cars to his Sprint lineup that is possible, and not go down in flames. If anyone in F1 were to add a third/fourth car to their lineup, the profit margins would be incredibly small, even for Mercedes with their margin this year. The technology is so much more advanced, they can't afford to. If it were as simple as an efi V8 with rollbars and a sheet of metal which goes all the way around the car, F1 would be much more popular, but it isn't, because that's not what the sport is about.[/QUOTE]
My stats actually show you payout without sponsorship money for NASCAR drivers, which is quite high and comparable to those in F1.

 

[Swagger897]

My stats actually show you payout without sponsorship money for NASCAR drivers, which is quite high and comparable to those in F1.

Yes they are high.
Comparable, not so much for the top three but it eventually evens out for the bottom end drivers. However, "on average" like I said is not the case, because the sponsors still pay out considerable amounts which makes the final number a comparable stat... I am more on the pov that wins = salaries, not commercials, sponsors & licensing.

On average the top ten nascar drivers makes far more money than the top F1 drivers.

This will better illustrate what I'm trying to say, if you look at race win/team salary, vs. sponsorship. I don't care about sponsorship because NASCAR is just Hollywood racing. They go to what, 36 tracks across the US, do the same thing every weekend or so, and then get paid. Until this year there wasn't much emphasis on the championship and even though I heavily dislike how it is setup, it still made a lot of attention. It's obvious when watching any F1 race, at least here in the states and on NBCSN all that is talked about is the championship. They don't have (at least I have never seen) two hour long pre-race shows depicting the week's drama and gossip through the sport, rather than talk about how the season can play out, and manager changes... Depends on how you compare those two with that last line, but that's how I see it...

If you don't believe that then maybe you need to watch an entire race weekend.
I'm not sure how the F1 season ending payout attributes to those numbers too. Maybe they are accounted for, maybe not.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes they are high.
Comparable, not so much for the top three but it eventually evens out for the bottom end drivers. However, "on average" like I said is not the case, because the sponsors still pay out considerable amounts which makes the final number a comparable stat... I am more on the pov that wins = salaries, not commercials, sponsors & licensing.

I'm not talking about sponsorship money though, the payout (you can go to Jayskii or NASCAR.com and see this) purse at the races all of them is quite high along with the team contracts. Once again the links provided show this. They give you a breakdown of what they make with and then without the sponsors. So yes the top ten in NASCAR make far more than the top ten in F1. From this perspective why would anyone want to race out of the States that is native born?

This will better illustrate what I'm trying to say, if you look at race win/team salary, vs. sponsorship. I don't care about sponsorship because NASCAR is just Hollywood racing. They go to what, 36 tracks across the US, do the same thing every weekend or so, and then get paid. Until this year there wasn't much emphasis on the championship and even though I heavily dislike how it is setup, it still made a lot of attention. It's obvious when watching any F1 race, at least here in the states and on NBCSN all that is talked about is the championship. They don't have (at least I have never seen) two hour long pre-race shows depicting the week's drama and gossip through the sport, rather than talk about how the season can play out, and manager changes... Depends on how you compare those two with that last line, but that's how I see it...

If you don't believe that then maybe you need to watch an entire race weekend.
I'm not sure how the F1 season ending payout attributes to those numbers too. Maybe they are accounted for, maybe not.

Hollywood racing? Makes no sense. There has always been a high emphasis on the championship, if you have no idea about a series why talk about it as if you do? If anything the attention this year given the championship and the goal it tried to achieve were almost hilariously moot in the end and to some degree still are. Same with F1 nearly making their finale a joke, but if you want to talk about that go to the NASCAR thread and we can, as for payouts I feel I made my point and you seem to think drivers make peanuts in NASCAR for what is nothing more than rodeo clowns in high hp cars.

They talk about team changes, driver changes and crew changes. Juniors crew chief change has been major news in the sports for the past couple months, Carl Edwards going the JGR is the same and so on not sure what the heck you're talking about. It seems to be an inclined bad view of NASCAR from the get go.

I've watched 20+ seasons of NASCAR I'm quite sure I know good and well what goes on, is their gossip, sure. Is their gossip in the 20 years I've watched F1 that is comparable...quite so.

 

[Swagger897]

I'm not talking about sponsorship money though, the payout (you can go to Jayskii or NASCAR.com and see this) purse at the races all of them is quite high along with the team contracts. Once again the links provided show this. They give you a breakdown of what they make with and then without the sponsors. So yes the top ten in NASCAR make far more than the top ten in F1. From this perspective why would anyone want to race out of the States that is native born?

You're comparing the top ten in NASCAR vs. the top ten in F1? Why, there is half a field of F1 drivers than in NASCAR..

Anyways, here are the numbers based on the links you showed, plus 2014's F1's salaries:
2013
F1: $98.6 million via race wins/team pay alone (sponsorship to small to account for).
NASCAR: $61.5 million via race wins/team pay alone + $40.2 million sponsorship = $101.7 million for top 5 drivers.

2014:
F1: $126.9 million via race wins/team pay alone (again, sponsorship too small to account for).
NASCAR: $70.2 million via race wins/team pay alone + $31.5 million sponsorship = (somehow) #101.7 million for top 5 drivers...

I don't account for the top ten because the field is half as much as NASCAR, and half of 10 is five so five v. five is fair. If you still think the top five for five is higher on NASCAR than clearly you are accounting for sponsorships..

Yes, the pay scale does even out eventually, but eventually you run out of F1 drivers.
I don't know about reserve drivers either. I've never heard of some F1 teams having them though I'm sure they do..

 

[GTPorsche]

Rossi, along with what seems like half of the recent GP2 field, are in line for various Indycar tests coming up soon.

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/111791-indycar-silly-season-update-december-2014

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You're comparing the top ten in NASCAR vs. the top ten in F1? Why, there is half a field of F1 drivers than in NASCAR..

Anyways, here are the numbers based on the links you showed, plus 2014's F1's salaries:
2013
F1: $98.6 million via race wins/team pay alone (sponsorship to small to account for).
NASCAR: $61.5 million via race wins/team pay alone + $40.2 million sponsorship = $101.7 million for top 5 drivers.

2014:
F1: $126.9 million via race wins/team pay alone (again, sponsorship too small to account for).
NASCAR: $70.2 million via race wins/team pay alone + $31.5 million sponsorship = (somehow) #101.7 million for top 5 drivers...

I don't account for the top ten because the field is half as much as NASCAR, and half of 10 is five so five v. five is fair. If you still think the top five for five is higher on NASCAR than clearly you are accounting for sponsorships..

Yes, the pay scale does even out eventually, but eventually you run out of F1 drivers.
I don't know about reserve drivers either. I've never heard of some F1 teams having them though I'm sure they do..

Ah I see, no I don't and no I'm not. I was using the averaged scale of the ten highest paid drivers by contract in NASCAR to those in F1. Your criteria that you argued with and went by was your own and nothing anyone else seemed to be using but I can see why you used it, anyways that's all. We've made our respective points.