ALMS: 2007 Long Beach

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2007 Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach
Saturday, April 14 - Long Beach, CA

longbeachbf8.jpg


Race Information:
  • Round: 3 of 12
  • Race Start: 4:05PM PDT
  • Duration: 1 hr 40 min
  • Track Type: City street circuit; 1.968 miles
  • TV Broadcast (U.S.): SPEED; April 14; 5:00PM PDT (Tape Delay +1 hour)


Qualifying Results
  1. #26 Andretti Green Acura 1:11.838
  2. #6 Penske Porsche RS Spyder +0.306s
  3. #7 Penske Porsche RS Spyder +0.409s
  4. #1 Audi R10 +0.875s
  5. ...
 
Having last year`s Rolex race and the last round at St. Pete in mind, I expect a major crashfest. Hopefully i´ll be proven wrong.:sick:
 
We should expect no more than fifty minutes of green flag racing. :lol:

It's probably too early, but does anyone have their predictions? And when is the ALMS website going to provide better quality podcasts!?
 
Aww man, I was hoping for that one you posted, looks a lot faster. Looks like they are using the same old one again. The one you posted, after looking on the Motor Racing Circuits database site, is the 1999 config.
 
Here's a question? How many of the teams that already had their life savings turned into carbon fiber mulch piles in St. Pete had a chance to put their cars back together?

Seriously, two street circuits in a row? Were they taking scheduling lessons from Khalkhoven?
 
Unfortunately LK, its three street circuits in a row, Houston is next. I was just about to make a comment on how much rounds 2-4 are going to cost the teams. IMO street courses only belong on the calendar as a one off race to attract the attention of business men in a big city, a New York, Los Angeles, Charlotte (I guess Grand-Am would have to race there...), Dallas or Ft. Worth, Houston perhaps isn't a bad location. However, being bombarded by street courses like ALMS and Champ Car have done (especially CC) though the SERIES will presumably make more money, events will be far more costly for the teams. I can see single seaters on street courses however, sports cars just don't belong as far as I'm concerned. It appears like Grand-Am learned there lesson last year and hopefully it doesn't take a monster, horrific looking crash to figure that out. And ti isn't over yet, Belle Isle awaits us last weekend in August.

m.piedgros
 
First of all, the Rolex Sportscar Series is known for NASCAR thugging in racing. So I don't think we're going to see any foul racing of that sort.

Now to my look at this race.

Ahh... Long Beach. It's the most successful street course in America. Perhaps even the finest street course in the Western Hemisphere (three Canadian cities would disagree). It's seen everything from celebrity races to Formula One Grands Prix. I'm very okay with street courses, and I think the ALMS has found one of the finest of them all in America. You okay with some SoCal racing? I think this event will be a great one.

I'll provide extra comments and maybe another round of FACT OR FICTION? later.
 
JohnBM01
First of all, the Rolex Sportscar Series is known for NASCAR thugging in racing. So I don't think we're going to see any foul racing of that sort.
Click to expand...

The biggest crash at last year's Rolex Race was not because of reckless driving though. The incident involved a slow car with technical problems getting hit by another car, something that could also happen very well during a ALMS race.

So I am not too confident really.
 
Also, whats wrong with a little rubbing/bumping? The teams should build cars that can stand up to that.
 
Bumping and rubbing is fine. My problem is ALMS should hold their events on proper race tracks. How about looking for appearances at Barber or VIR, tracks that only host one major car race a year - the Grand Am races. ALMS should drop LB, and Belle Isle and St. Pete should be reconfigured to use more of the airport. Last year's big accident aside, Grand-Am's "thugging" aside, these types of cars certainly don't belong on Street Courses in this Texan's eyes. Modern race tracks are providing more and more runoff room and ALMS and Champ Car have ADDED tracks with less run off in recent years. It's mind boggling. I completely understand the economic and exposure impact that street courses have but as far as the teams are concerned it probably hurts the bottom line.

m.piedgros
 
I'll agree with you on one thing- I'd LOVE to see the ALMS at Barber Motorsports Park. I don't think this track has to be seriously exclusive to Grand-Am. I love that damn track as much as I like Mont-Tremblant in Canada. I'll greatly agree on that.

People usually complain that street courses are simply not "racing." But look at it like this. I actually begun to follow (then) CART when the Grand Prix of Houston was run in 1998 near Downtown Houston. I'm usually open to the challenge of a modern street course race with these high-dollar prototypes and GT machines. I usually am fond of seeing something different. Only as long as they don't go to Darlington or Martinsville or any such race, then I'm fine. I also think that you kind of draw more fans to the races. The ALMS is pretty much serving as a support series for most Champ Car Grand Prix events (like the race next weekend in Long Beach). As much as I like street courses (and I didn't intend to make this a street course discussion), there's a fatal flaw in my view.

The big flaw is that people looking for a quality permanent road course in the general area may not be able to have a pure home for motorsport. A street course is usually made so that the only time it's open for racing is usually a weekend. Then it's gone until Take my hometown of Houston. What major road course do we have in the general area? Well, you have Houston Raceway Park in Baytown, but that's a track that has a short track and a drag strip. Recently had the O' Reilly Nationals. Closest road course in the area? There's MotorSport Ranch Houston out in Rosharon, TX. It's pretty much a club-level circuit that looks pretty competitive. I still think of a track in the general mold of Barber Motorsports Park and Miller Motorsports Park in terms of a beautifully-designed race course complete with many grandstands and all the other facilities that make a world-class course a world-class course. Or as we learned with Miller Motorsports Park, even with its mostly incomplete look, still remains a quality race course. It is America's longest track and hellishly challenging. I actually see this track hosting some bigtime road racing. I don't know about MotoGP or ALMS or anything like that, but I think it would be the perfect candidate for bigtime road racing in the general Houston area. Either MotorSport Ranch Houston undergoes a multi-million dollar project to enhance this track beyond belief, or come up with a road course that can really put Southeast Texas and the Houston area on the map.

For more information on this track, visit the following links:
http://www.msrhouston.com (official)
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/2018870
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/2018870#103500598 (track map)
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/2018870#103499703 (aerial view)

But that's my good and bad with street courses in general. I still say that next weekend's Long Beach event and the subsequent Houston race should be fun to watch. This Long Beach event will also be the last Speed Channel ALMS race until August 26th at Mosport. The next four rounds after Long Beach will be on CBS, then the NBC one-off event at Road America. Any other thoughts about the ALMS at Long Beach?
 
How about Bush Intercontinental? That is a great place to host a race. Or perhaps William P. Hobby. Hobby is much closer to downtown so perhaps that would be ideal. As you can tell I am an advocate of the airport track. They have much greater potential in providing quality, exciting, and all at the same time safer racing.

m.piedgros
 
Wish there was a good track around Hobby Airport... because I live a few streets away from Hobby. I'm talking about like... permanent, always there courses like MotorSport Ranch Houston. So that's where I'm getting at.
 
MSR Houston is a good layout. Perhaps some big pocketed ALMS supporter would see its potential, buy it and bring it up to FIA code. (Hint Don Panoz, hint hint.) Any thoughts on the affor mentioned Autocon Creation?

m.piedgros
 
Now, I'd love to see that happen, m.piedgros! It's a great track already. Should be even better if fully at FIA specifications. Imagine grandstands and such around this place. The website says that the Test and Tune deal is limited to about 50 drivers. So imagine if the ALMS had a much larger car count and held a race here. I'm telling you... the general Houston are would be on the map! I think this is a world-class track in layout. Someone just needs to promote this track and maybe get some pro racing attention. Perhaps this track can see everything from racing in the Houston SCCA chapter all the way up to high-profile road racing. The track just needs a little love.

I still haven't thought of any FACT OR FICTION yet. I'll be sure to provide some for discussion some time soon.
 
You know people, I may want to host a seperate discussion about what I mentioned in an earlier post in terms of major race courses in greater metropolitan areas. I may look into that. I still think this is going to be great to see the ALMS compete on the most successful street course in America. Not to mention the oldest as well. I think the key to successful laps around Long Beach is to have patience and pick your spots carefully. The two most crucial sections of Long Beach are the first corner and the final hairpin. It can be too easy to screw it all up, especially in Turn One (then again, that's how most all road racing is, right? Watch your backside in Turn 1!). I still cringe that I couldn't see the end of the tape-delayed "Race of a Thousand Years" when the ALMS went to Adelaide in 2000. I think this should be a great race on a great street circuit. You ready, Long Beach?
 
FireEmblem62
Also, whats wrong with a little rubbing/bumping? The teams should build cars that can stand up to that.
Click to expand...
I can't remember who, but I saw a sig somewhere that said something about not wrecking your opponent to make up for a lack of talent.

Granted, rubbing and bumping will happen, but purposely spinning out your opponent, especially on courses with concrete walls instead of gravel traps, is uncalled for in my opinion. You have little reason to rub/bump on purpose because you can damage your car and while you gained the spot and put someone else out of the race completely you risk losing aerodynamics, cutting a tire, or spinning out completely yourself.

It is not necessary. Just ask McNish how many people he had to bump to regain the lead after his black flag.



As for the treet course debate, after seeing some of those St. Pete wrecks I would rather see more road courses. In both ALMS and Champ Car it seems like the street courses create at least three issues:

  1. Dirty track surface. In Las Vegas Rahal was out of his first Champ Car race before he hit the starting line because he was avoiding another driver coming over (see #2) and hit a dirt patch, causing him to lose grip and slide into the wall.
  2. Narrow track space. You can look at the Rahal example in #1 or a number of the St. Pete issues where passes were being made, or failed, and a narrow turn caused contact and a spin, throwing them into a wall (see #3).
  3. No safe run-off room. See both above examples, or even where guys had tire/suspension troubles and just went into the wall. Anything that makes us and the announcers go, "WHOA!!!" is not putting the drivers in a safe situation.

Now road tracks have their walls, but on the more dangerous areas you have gravel traps, tons of tires, and a wall. I know that if Franchitti's accident had happened on a road course he may have been stuck in gravel, not slammed through tires into concrete.

I'll admit, it is fun to watch the drivers negotiate around the tight streets and curves while working around each other, but losing teams who can't afford another car or drivers that get seriously injured/killed is not a fair trade. I mean, we can already assume that Enge (did I spell that right?) is out until at least July. We just lost one of the better GT2 drivers for half a season. Is it worth it?

That said, if they intend to keep the street course thing up then I suggest Louisville, Ky. We could route the course past the Muhammed Ali and Colonel Sanders mural and out past the Louisville Slugger Museum, where the world's largest baseball bat leaning against the building. That would even run it past the Center for the Arts and the Science Center, both which have high observation deck levels. Heck, we could make it part of the Kentucky Derby Festival events.

Although, we have lots of natural rolling country side and if I got support beforehand and anyone knows of a bank willing to give me the loan for it, I would be more than happy to work on building a road course locally.
 
FoolKiller, I must advise you to go and pick up the latest issue of Racer Magazine. They preview the whole Vegas GP, and, one of the articles is on the construction of a street circuit. The main thing they were trying to get across was space. One of the main things that stood out to me was this particular line.

Without room for the pits, paddock, and start/finish straightaway, you're toast.
Click to expand...

They then go on to explain the room you will need for just the track and pits, which is a mighty large 132ft. I don't have the willpower to type it all out, so, I suggest you go pick it up. :) Also, it includes a spotters guide for the 2007 F1 season, and other interesting stories.
 
FireEmblem62
FoolKiller, I must advise you to go and pick up the latest issue of Racer Magazine. They preview the whole Vegas GP, and, one of the articles is on the construction of a street circuit. The main thing they were trying to get across was space. One of the main things that stood out to me was this particular line.



They then go on to explain the room you will need for just the track and pits, which is a mighty large 132ft. I don't have the willpower to type it all out, so, I suggest you go pick it up. :) Also, it includes a spotters guide for the 2007 F1 season, and other interesting stories.
Click to expand...
I'll have to check a book store because we don't get that magazine in the usual grocery stores. Trust me, after looking at their Web site I would probably be subscribed if I had known it exsited. Usually we have Motor Trend, Road&Track, Car and Driver, and every thing that involves half naked women draped over ricer cars. Oh, I almost forgot Muscle Car magazine.

Anyway, I get the point that size is an issue (and Louisville probably wouldn't be big enough, but I can dream) but when you have to struggle for size and you don't have room for safety run-off I think it creates unneccessary risk for the drivers. I mean, road courses could line the track with concrete barriers, allowing fans to get closer, but they don't because of safety.


I need to try and find this magazine locally because I have a whole list of questions about these street races and setting them up. Like:
Who pays to set up a street course in a city, the city or the race series? And is there some form of ticketed admittance, or just come and find a spot for free?
 
Looks like I've grown some interest from my street course discussion. I may host a seperate thread to talk about what I discussed earlier.


And now, let's do FACT OR FICTION? again. Remember that I'll come up with some statements. It will be your job to decide if it's something very likely to happen or will happen (FACT) or it is too good to be true (FICTION). So let's do this.


TOYOTA GRAND PRIX OF LONG BEACH - FACT OR FICTION?

1. Risi Competizione will be 3-0 after winning in GT2 (regardless of which entry comes first).

2. At least two Ferraris will occupy the GT2 podium.

3. The #4 Corvette will win the much-maligned GT1 field.

4. Dyson Racing will win in P2 with their beautiful blue and white Porsche RS Spyder regardless of whichever car finishes first.

5. The highest-placed P2 Acura will be that of the Lola B06-43 (Lowe's Fernandez Racing).

6. Cytosport will DNF at Long Beach.

7. The #1 Audi will be the outright winner.

8. The top 5 overall will include at least one P2 entry.

9. Dirk Mueller will do Tomas Enge proud by finishing the Petersen White Lightning Ferrari on the podium.

10. The lone Autocon Entry will not finish.


What do you think?
 
What a qualifying session! Dario Franchitti takes the pole from the Penske RS Spyders on the last lap. McNish and Capello's Audi R10 starts from the second row. It should be an exciting start tomorrow.
 
So, SPEED Channel has resorted to lameness now? How long are the drivers' boards? Do they wax their boards?

Are you kidding me? I don't mind SPEED having a little fun with their broadcast during a caution period, but I think they can do better than lame phallic jokes. "World Class" my ass.
 
I'm a bit surprised no one tried out FACT OR FICTION?. Usually get a few responses. Anyhow, here's my little notebook on Long Beach:



JOHN'S NOTEBOOK: Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach

--- Fan Fest in Long Beach ---
Dorsey S. noted that this crowd at the Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach for the ALMS was one of the best fan turnouts he can remember for this historic street course. This is the 33rd year of Long Beach action overall. This ALMS event isn't seriously the marquee event here obviously. Thing is, people will still come out to the races to enjoy some racing action. It's great to see a crowd like what was at Long Beach to see some of the world's finest sportscar racing machines.

-end Notebook


--- SoCal Cool ---
I noticed the Autocon entry on the grid. She's a pretty babe, isn't she?



--- Audi - Unbeaten No More ---
This was all about the P2 cars as the Audi weren't even close as they had a number of problems to deal with. Some people would probably argue that these cars are only for Le Mans and aren't made for tracks like this. But then, how do you explain a (then) LMP675 upsetting the Audi R8 at Sears Point? Or Audi's near-miss at Miller Motorsports Park last season? It is still possible for a P2 machine to win over a P1 even if the P2s are undermined compared to P1 entries. Either way, the Audis were knocked off by not one, but three Porsche RS Spyders. It would be a German free-for-all if Audi and Porsche both were in P1. You HAVE to have done something amazingly right if you knock off the series' best team. This is the third-ever time that a P1 entry didn't win the race overall. Could this happen again this season? We'll see.



--- FACT OR FICTION Results ---
(random selection, selected a few)

* #1 Audi wins overall and in P1. (FICTION)
Even though the #1 Audi won in P1, it didn't win the race. So it's FICTION.

* Risi Competizione remains unbeaten. (FACT)
And guess what? They'll have a happy homecoming as the next round is in Houston. The pressure will be on Risi to perform well in their hometown. If they do just that, the hometown crowd in my wonderful hometown will go nuts like it was the Super Bowl.

* Panoz denied GT2 podium. (FACT)
Ferrari and Porsche have long been the mainstays of GT2 racing and proven it once again here in this event.

* Highest-placed Acura will neither of the Courage LC-75 models. (FICTION)

*






--- John's Debate! ---
So the checkered flag has dropped. All it means for me is that it's the Green Flag for me to offer some debate questions. The questions may be smart or pointless depending on your views. I'm introducing these questions to offer debate even well after the checkered flag drops. Each debate question will be noted with Dx. So don't think that "D1" has a reference to the D1GP. Anyhow, here are my debate questions. Remember that you are more than welcome to offer your comments. It is not required that you answer all debate questions. Answer only those you think you truly have an answer for. In addition, I have over 10 questions for you to hopefully provide debate for.


D1 (three parts). People think that the Audis and Corvettes could probably find better competition if they moved to the LMS. Assuming that their departure from the ALMS to the LMS happens, (a) will their respective departures improve the ALMS, downgrade the ALMS, or have no effect? (b) How would the Audis and Corvettes do competiting under the LMS schedule? (c) How could American car enthusiasts respond to Pratt and Miller for going to the LMS rather than stay in America so that Americans can see them dominate?

D2. Do you think Riverside would make a great ALMS course if the classic Riverside circuit was still around? Do you think that the ALMS should race both Riverside and Long Beach granted Riverside still existed? Or do you think only Long Beach or Riverside should be raced?

D3. Should LMS GT competitors (especially in GT1) be allowed to compete in America to fill the GT1 gaps when the LMS is not racing? Do you also think that prototype competitors in the LMS compete in the ALMS to allow more entries to race in prototype ranks? Or should LMS competitors stay with the LMS and not try to befuddle the ALMS? Explain.

D4. This could be the most popular question I'll ask. (a) How do you enhance P1 and GT1 in the ALMS? (b) Define "good car count" in regards to the ALMS. The number of cars on the track are usually in the general range of 20-25 to a track nowadays. What is a better range of cars that race an event in the ALMS? PLEASE offer realistic values. Take road courses and street courses into consideration.

D5. St. Petersburg, Long Beach, Houston, and Detroit include four certain racing markets in four different parts of the country. Most of these cities that host street course racing don't have any minor or major road courses that greatly represent that city's major market. (a) What major American (and even Canadian) cities cities could benefit from either a permanent road course or some sort of temporary circuit among the ALMS? For example (and you can use this as an answer), do you think St. Louis and Denver would be great major market representatives for a greater area race in each city's general market?

D6. What car companies who used to race prototypes could shine again someday if they returned to prototypes? Imagine if Panoz decides to come up with a brand-new prototype to try to return to big league ALMS racing. Or imagine if Ferrari creates a prototype or teams up with some racing constructor to build a car even more beautiful than the 333SP to maybe make a privateer or factory effort. What car companies that once raced prototypes could succeed best if they returned to prototype racing?

D7. The Long Beach race is one hour and 45 minutes long. Do you think they should perform an endurance race (more than 3 hours) here instead of this short event? I sort of imagined a six-hour race which the race starts in the evening and goes into the night, much like the four-hour endurance at Laguna Seca. Would a race like this happen at Long Beach someday with this series? Would it be a realistic race if there was a six-hour race on these streets through the night air?

D8a. Which of the following race tracks would be most likely to host an ALMS round:
(a) Circuit de Gilles Villenue (Montreal)
(b) Le Circuit Mont-Tremblant
(c) Interlagos
(d) Autodromo de los Hermanos Rodriguez (Mexico City)

D8b. Which of the following non-Western Hemisphere tracks would be most likely to host an ALMS round (even if a non-points race):
(a) Monza
(b) Misano
(c) Silverstone**
(d) Bahrain
(e) Nurburgring* (not the Nordschleife)
(f) Imola
(g) Brands Hatch - Grand Prix
(h) Sepang
(i) Eastern Creek (Australia)
(j) Suzuka - Grand Prix
(k) Monte Carlo
(l) Kyliami (South Africa)
(m) Bugatti
(n) Autopolis (Japan)


D9. One of the most underrated aspects of big time racing is driver fitness. How much of a testament to the ALMS (much less any other form of racing) is it to be in great physical shape to race in any of the four classes in the ALMS?

D10. Some say the Audi R8 is among some of the best-ever sportscar racing machines. Some say it's the best ever. I usually tend to disagree and say that the Porsche 917 was the best-ever sportscar. Who do you agree with- me for picking the Porsche 917 as the best-ever, people who pick the Audi R8 as the best-ever, or neither? If you respond "neither," then what is the best-ever sportscar and why?





The next stop on the ALMS tour is my hometown of Houston for the weekend of April 21-22. I've been at the Houston Grand Prix course even before the walls were put up. It's called the Reliant Park parking lot. While this was a SoCal shootout, remember that it's always better in Texas. I hate making any corellation to Texas and the Wild West. You can be assured that Houston will not be a pushover track and that there will be no shortage of action. In terms of TV time, it will be the first of four straight ALMS races covered on CBS.
 
Long Beach is simply the only place in SoCal where something like ALMS or Champ Car is really possible. We have several road courses, but none are up to the task of hosting such a huge event.

Willow Springs International Raceway is a great course, I've actually raced there myself, but it lacks the facilities necessary for a major motorsports event like CART or ALMS. It's got a few, scatterred, grandstands, and a trackside club, but there's not capacity for tens of thousands of people in them, and there's nowhere else on the outside edge of the track that's level enough to erect more. As for inside the track, there are flat areas, but there's simply nowhere to set up the crossover bridges to allow access.

California Speedway's roadcourse is the opposite, it's just subpar. Poor tarmac conditions and an uninspired layout combine to make it insufficient for a major event. Even the much-smalled JGTC event in '04 had quite a bit of trouble there.

Nice thing about LB is the venue overall. The proximity of the convention center allows for covered, indoor, pits, and a huge vendor space, and there are tons of hotels and restaurants nearby.
 

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