ALONSO, 'sandbagging'?

[Metar]

Kimi & Lewis are not sandbagging...

Yes, because exactly how convincing will it look with a McLaren or Ferrari? In any other teams, sandbagging will fool some people. In those two, you're just wasting your time.

 

[<_Spike_>]

Kimi & Lewis are not sandbagging...

How do you know they're not sand bagging? Do you KNOW something we don't?

...

Didn't think so. Sorry mate but contrary to your obviously belief in yourself, you're not some kind of insider. Or are you? Are you sandbagging and hiding your real knowledge and facts? Who knows...

 

[Roo]

All champs are bit of prima donnas. MSC parking @ Monocco to deprive Alonso hot lap during qualifications was desperation.

What about skating off at the first corner of both the Spanish and Canadian GPs?

How do you know they're not sand bagging? Do you KNOW something we don't?

...

Didn't think so. Sorry mate but contrary to your obviously belief in yourself, you're not some kind of insider. Or are you? Are you sandbagging and hiding your real knowledge and facts? Who knows...

He's doing a bloody good job if he is!

 

[daan]

If he's sandbagging, isn't that a bad thing for Renault? How can Renault test their cars properly if Alonso is sandbagging?

They will go flat out in sectors, but won't do a full lap so the complete time doesn't show.

Also, if the driver drives at 97% all the time, the time will be slower, but any laptime improvements they make are down to the car, and you have less risk of any time improvements being down to the driver just driving faster.

Kimi & Lewis are not sandbagging...

None of the front runners show their hand until qualifying for the first race.

 

[mipuumal]

Braun never had that problem...

MSC parking @ Monocco

Who are you again, mr Expert?

When Alonso took last years car and outpaced this years cars for other teams @Jerez by .7 tenths, you mean you didn't hear about that? The whole damn paddock was shocked.

I was more impressed with Super Aguri taking a 5 year old Arrows and being only 5 seconds off the pace.

 

[Stevisiov]

I accidentally mis-read the title as "ALONSO Teabaging", caused quite the confusion for me to say the least...

 

[Venari]

Or maybe:

"ALONSO, cottaging?"
"ALONSO, sandblasting?"
"ALONSO, sandcastle?"
"ALONSO, sinkunblocker?"

Personally, I think he's not sandbagging. I think he's always been that fat.

 

[Stevisiov]

Or maybe:

"ALONSO, cottaging?"
"ALONSO, sandblasting?"
"ALONSO, sandcastle?"
"ALONSO, sinkunblocker?"

Personally, I think he's not sandbagging. I think he's always been that fat.

After the 'trauma' of Mclaren I am not surprised he has let himself go a bit. I mean no one likes him outside spain, he gets kicked off his team, and he is barely 5 foot tall. This was surely the end result

 

[peterjford]

Well, there is always NASCAR.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Or just drives a bit slower than usual.

I prefer the sandbags in the car version.

I also read or (?) heared (?) that Alonso isn't going to stay an F1 pilot as long as Schumacher was. Something wrong with that sentence.

I also read or heard that Alonso wasn't going to stay an F1 pilot as long as Schumacher was one.

Corrected, I think...

 

[Sting]

Everyone be afraid.....

.... WILLIAMS ARE SANDBAGGING! 👍

 

[Appie]

Well, there is always NASCAR.

That was funny👍

But like everyone else said, is that no one will go full out untill 3 week from time

 

[Blake]

When Alonso took last years car and outpaced this years cars for other teams @Jerez by .7 tenths, you mean you didn't hear about that?

Wow, that’s amazing! Alonso is so dreamy!

Alonso was light on fuel on new tyres to set a time that looked impressive. You can’t get around the fact that the 2007 Renault was bad. He was probably told to do a qualifying lap to impress potential Spanish sponsors or some such and get them to jump ship from McLaren.

Welcome to Fanboy County. Population: you.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

You know, I think we should watch out for Super Aguri. I mean, they're really hiding their 08 pace, aren't they?

mustang245, I think you need to calm down a little. You're letting your passion get in the way of your ability to think up a reasoned argument. You clearly feel that Alonso was done an injustice last year, and that it's all McLaren's fault that Ferrari were able to win the world championship, and that your precious Alonso was beaten by a rookie.

You claim Alonso was responsible for Michael Schumacher retiring when in fact documented evidence (review Mark Hughes's columns on Autosport) shows that the reason for his retirement was a massive rift between Luca di Montezemolo and Jean Todt over the hiring of Kimi Raikkonen. The fact is that LdM managed that hiring, cutting Todt out of the loop. LdM managed the announcement of Kimi's taking over the race seat. At each stage he made Schumacher's presence within the team increasingly untenable. If Schumacher was going to retire because he couldn't hack it, he would have done so at the end of his triumphant '04 season, when the writing was already on the wall for Ferrari's uncompetitive '05 year.

You claim Alonso's test times improved the pace of the car by 0.7 seconds, which is interesting, not least because that is the very amount that the monobrowed-one claimed he brought to McLaren. You appear to have bought into the man's arrogance, without taking congnisance of his mental frailty. As has been mentioned here previously, (but without reference to Japan 07 or Canada 06), when Alonso is under real pressure, he quite often throws the car at something heavy and stationary.

You can't really base definitive arguments on testing times however, since at no point do you know the state of the tyres, the fuel load or the weight in the car. You can't tell until Melbourne, and even that can be quite unrepresentative (c.f. 2007, where Kimi strolled the first race, then didn't win for ages)

 

[Metar]

You know, I think we should watch out for Super Aguri. I mean, they're really hiding their 08 pace, aren't they?

There had to be a reason for Aguri's lack of presence- you've found it! They're merely hiding their true awesomeness

 

[Appie]

There had to be a reason for Aguri's lack of presence- you've found it! They're merely hiding their true awesomeness

That's if they start in Melbourne

 

[TheCracker]

That's if they start in Melbourne

No need to worry

 

[Appie]

F yeah

 

[mustang245]

Wow, that’s amazing! Alonso is so dreamy!

Alonso was light on fuel on new tyres to set a time that looked impressive. You can’t get around the fact that the 2007 Renault was bad. He was probably told to do a qualifying lap to impress potential Spanish sponsors or some such and get them to jump ship from McLaren.

Welcome to Fanboy County. Population: you.

Thanks Blake, plenty of room for more...

 

[mustang245]

GG, read your post over coffee, gave it thought...
points wise FA & LH tied, many reasons why LH may have ranked higher... Alonso 'giving' up pole in Hungary to payback Lewis, 'tire' pressure debacle in Shanghai, gantry 'falling' on his car in middle of the night, etc... I don't buy any of the equal treatment BS, so don't try to sell it. You tarnish your 'super moderator' status with the "mono-browed" comment, but I have a sense of humor. The remark though, wasn't dis-passionate or reasonable. Alonso left quietly only because McLaren could have made him sit out rest of his contract. He isn't first to run afoul of Dennis, JPM, DC, KR have all had 'run ins' there, all good drivers. Just because Alonso didn't put up with it, doesn't make him the villain. He has his foibles, but his on track 'performances' are not to be missed... high G turn ins, passing on the outside, post victory celebrations and still the youngest champ ever. Massa giving KR the race in SaoPalo didn't sit well with me either.

 

[TheCracker]

Mustang245 - do you live in Oxford by any chance

 

[mustang245]

Mustang245 - do you live in Oxford by any chance

Apparently I live in 'FantasyLand', quite nice actually.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

GG, read your post over coffee, gave it thought...
points wise FA & LH tied, many reasons why LH may have ranked higher... Alonso 'giving' up pole in Hungary to payback Lewis, 'tire' pressure debacle in Shanghai, gantry 'falling' on his car in middle of the night, etc... I don't buy any of the equal treatment BS, so don't try to sell it. You tarnish your 'super moderator' status with the "mono-browed" comment, but I have a sense of humor. The remark though, wasn't dis-passionate or reasonable. Alonso left quietly only because McLaren could have made him sit out rest of his contract. He isn't first to run afoul of Dennis, JPM, DC, KR have all had 'run ins' there, all good drivers. Just because Alonso didn't put up with it, doesn't make him the villain. He has his foibles, but his on track 'performances' are not to be missed... high G turn ins, passing on the outside, post victory celebrations and still the youngest champ ever. Massa giving KR the race in SaoPalo didn't sit well with me either.

Tied on points they may have been, but on countback FA was beaten. All the more so when you consider their relative experience.

I argued that Fernando cracks under pressure, and you illustrate this point quite neatly: the Hungary pitlane stunt was the stuff of a petulant child. Then he chose to whine about tyre pressures knowing that it was an utterly unsubstantiatable statement. At the end of 2006 he went to the press, bleating about how he "didn't feel appreciated" at Renault, and then, part-way through '07 he did the same thing about McLaren. Well, it has to be said: there are those who cause a team to gel around them (M. Schumacher, J. Button), and there are those who get people's backs up. Complaining of poor treatment to the press, when you're winning races in a quick car is nothing more or less than petty whingeing.

I agree that some of his on-track performances have been sensational. I particularly remember his defence at Imola in 2005, and his mugging of Massa at the 'Ring in '06 was spectacular too. I'm just countering your assertions that he's mentally superior, especially in comparison with Kimi, who seems pretty much unflappable.

 

[mustang245]

GG, i'll concede on the point of being "mentally superior", he isn't. Prima Donna he is. 2X WDC he is. I take issue with the disrespect to his skill as a driver. LDM evidently thought a 'change' was in order based on Alonso's dominance of the 'KING'. I have deep respect for MSC. '05 & '06 he had the faster car, but bad reliability. However, had Alonso not beat him, noone else was in line to. Premise of this thread was sandbagging, everyone does it, yes. But is Alonso REALLY 'bagging? Enough to catch everyone off guard? Is this years Renault is bad as HE says? Everyone (MSC, too!) predicts boring 2way battle. I say 'maybe' not, and can KR earn the title without Massa's 'help'.

 

[mipuumal]

GG, i'll concede on the point of being "mentally superior", he isn't. Prima Donna he is. 2X WDC he is. I take issue with the disrespect to his skill as a driver. LDM evidently thought a 'change' was in order based on Alonso's dominance of the 'KING'. I have deep respect for MSC. '05 & '06 he had the faster car, but bad reliability.

Michael had the faster car in '05? I guess he was just hiding it, right?

Everyone (MSC, too!) predicts boring 2way battle. I say 'maybe' not, and can KR earn the title without Massa's 'help'.

How can a 2-way battle be boring?

I guess you are also forgetting the many favors that Fisi did for Aloneso.

 

[mustang245]

Michael had the faster car in '05? I guess he was just hiding it, right?



How can a 2-way battle be boring?

I guess you are also forgetting the many favors that Fisi did for Aloneso.

F1 is never boring, just like to see other constructors up front. Perhaps Hiedfeld & Rossberg. Fisi? His best days were in Alonso's shadow, now he should join Ralph & other has beens in DTM. At least Michael will never go there.

 

[Blake]

I don't buy any of the equal treatment BS, so don't try to sell it.

Where did Alonso claim he wasn&#8217;t being given the same opportunity to win? So far as I understand his complaint was that he should be given preferential treatment instead of being treated the same as McLaren treat their rookie driver.

I take issue with the disrespect to his skill as a driver.

No one disrespected his skills as a driver. He is clearly one of the best drivers of the day, and IMO he will be remembered as one of the best drivers in the history of the sport. But the current field is full of a level of talent we haven&#8217;t seen for many years: there are a number of great drivers and potential champions out there (and not just in the good cars). It is not like Alonso has exerted the level of dominance on the sport that Schumacher did and it&#8217;s a big call to say he&#8217;s definitely the best driver out there.

To rank the big three at the moment is splitting hairs IMO. They all have different strengths and are great drivers; but no one can seriously believe that Alonso could have put last years Renault on pole by 7 tenths at any stage last year.

Hell, last year he only got two pole positions in a McLaren, and they were both by less than 0.2s.

LDM evidently thought a 'change' was in order based on Alonso's dominance of the 'KING'.

Schumacher drove for a long time. He had been winning races in F1 for 14 years (just think about that for a moment) and his career was definitely winding down. He didn&#8217;t commit to a longer future at Ferrari and they had to act. Luca knew Ferrari couldn&#8217;t be left with Massa to take their charge for the title when Schumacher decided he&#8217;d had enough so he hired Kimi and essentially gave Schumacher the choice to race with Kimi as his team mate or retire.

I have deep respect for MSC. '05 & '06 he had the faster car, but bad reliability.

In 2005 the Ferrari was useless, and it&#8217;s a minor miracle that Michael managed to finish 3rd in the championship. And in 2006 it&#8217;s debatable that Schumacher had the faster car in the first half of the season. The performance between Renault and Ferrari was very variable from weekend to weekend

Massa giving KR the race in SaoPalo didn't sit well with me either.

can KR earn the title without Massa's 'help'.

I thought earlier you thought Alonso should be given that sort of treatment by his team mates because of his reputation&#8230; why is it not okay for the same to happen to other drivers?

And also note that Massa only helped Kimi because Kimi had dominated Massa in the points standings and there was no possible way that Massa could fight for the championship so he had to act in Ferrari&#8217;s interests. Alonso and Lewis were in a fight for the title and for one to help the other they would have compromised their own championship so it would never happen.

 

[mustang245]

Blake, fair enough... just hope Fernando does better in a team set up around him. IMO he would have done better for McLaren had they gave him # 1 status he deserved as 2xWDC. He wouldn't have pushed bald tires to stay ahead of 'iceman' and risk DNF if ahead in points. 'equal treatment' just never seemed to be there. It seemed to be 'family affair' with Lewis.

 

[daan]

Blake, fair enough... just hope Fernando does better in a team set up around him. IMO he would have done better for McLaren had they gave him # 1 status he deserved as 2xWDC.

If Alonso wanted No1 status, he should have got it written into his contract, but he would not have got that at McLaren. McLaren are famous for not having No1 and No2 drivers. They are also used to having 2 drivers going at each other in order to gain the upper hand, Senna and Prost for example.

It seemed to be 'family affair' with Lewis.

Latterly, it seemed a family affair, yes. If one of your drivers is becoming more petulent and complaining to his countries press that he is not getting the status he deserves, and the other is a guy who you've nurtured for 12 years since he was 10, its only natural that most of the team would rotate behind him.

But Alonso was still given equal equipment, and an equal chance of victory, he was just beaten by a guy who was using the car better.

We'll never really know exactly what happened between McLaren, Dennis, Alonso & Hamilton but, Nigel Roebuck, Autosport's highly respected F1 reporter for over 30 years, has stated on record that he has never known Ron Dennis to tell him anything that later turned out to be untrue.

 

[m7ammed]

don't forget who threatened Ron to go to the FIA , also who used ferrari data and tried to test it with test driver , I didn't see Lewis's name come up in the emails ...


on a side note : Is double posting allowed on the forums?