Am I Becoming Racist? (rant)

[Swift]

Dan, did you see this? What do you think?

But still, what's the point? That's exactly how everyone thinks. I don't think someone is competent until they prove otherwise. Period. So, that doesn't make me a racist, it makes me a realist.

 

[Famine]

And last I heard white people were involved in the black music ceremony awards.

But not Miss Black America.

 

[Swift]

But not Miss Black America.

That along with the "Black national anthem" are the dumbest things in this country as far as Black people go. Man, it still makes me mad thinking about that mess.

 

[FoolKiller]

Why would I assume that a person is qualified when I have reason to believe they may not be?

It's a matter of reserving judgement vs. making an assumption. The assumption of having gotten the job because of skills or qualifications is not safe with certain groups because I KNOW that these groups are discriminated in favor of. It has nothing to do with whether the person know about it or not. It has only to do with my own evaluation of their competency.

Would you say that most minority employees are a beneficiary of affirmative action or just a few? Your first post says "some" and not "most." If it is some or a few wouldn't you be safer to assume that they are not beneficiaries of affirmative action? Say it is one out of three, you are better served assuming they got that job based on qualifications and not affirmative action because only a minority of minority workers would have unjustly received that job. Your assumption leads you to distrust all minorities' qualifications despite even knowing if affirmative action is being practiced.

The default for a person belonging to a group not likely to have been discriminated in favor of is "qualified".

In the company I currently work for I was initially hired by a man that was openly homosexual. Can I still assume my qualifications got me the job or should I wonder if he thought I was cute?

Then he also asked me what media outlest I mostly got my news from. Being media research this seems like a legitimate question, but at the same time he might as well have asked me my politics. Maybe I showed that my politics, or even just taste in media outlets, agreed with him and that made him decide I was good enough for the job.

The default for a person belonging ot a group likely to have been discriminated in favor of is "qualifications unknown".

Only because you choose to see it that way. You could have a racist boss and not know it so he hires more white people despite their having less than perfect qualifications and then just enough perfectly qualified black people to not draw suspicion, yet few enough that he can avoid them.

It can go both ways because racism against minorities still exists. If you don't believe me have a talk with my dad some time. Heck go to Shepherdsville, KY where when I was a kid they had the local KKK leader elected as the constable. It goes both ways and you can never be sure that black candidates haven't been unjustly turned down.

I've given some examples of groups likely to be discriminated in favor of.

Attractive People - only when in a position to spend a lot of time (especially alone with) the boss, and only when the Boss and employee are of opposite gender (more likely with male boss and female secretary than the other way around) or same gender in case of gay boss.
Family
Certain Religious Affiliations - only when the hiring committee has the same religious leaning.
Friends - when the boss had a buddy he knew prior to the buddy being hired.
Race - when it matters for the image of the company or when people are fearing the appearance of racism or when people honestly think that white people have something to pay for.

Only the last case applies to university admissions.

These can all be discriminated against still today.

A fat person might hate attractive people and refuse to hire them.
A person might refuse to hire family because they don't like them or want to avoid nepotism claims or even company policy.
An atheist might not hire a Christian because they think poorly of them (or vice versa).
A person might not hire a friend or someone that is friends with a coworker to avoid possible nepotism claims or even company policy.
People might not hire a minority or an all-black company might not hire a white guy.

But in all cases where I suspect the person was hired for a reason other than merit, I'll suspend my own assumption of competency. For the record, it usually only takes a few technical discussions with a collegue for me to figure out whether they know what they're doing.

Slightly editted: Why would you work for someone if you can't trust them to only hire people that appear to be fully competent? If they were overboard on their affirmative action your job would be that much harder and you would never be rewarded for completing it.

 

[Danoff]

Would you say that most minority employees are a beneficiary of affirmative action or just a few? Your first post says "some" and not "most." If it is some or a few wouldn't you be safer to assume that they are not beneficiaries of affirmative action?

I think I'm better off assuming nothing if the statistics are meaningful.

In the company I currently work for I was initially hired by a man that was openly homosexual. Can I still assume my qualifications got me the job or should I wonder if he thought I was cute?

I wouldn't even stop to wonder about that until you're in a position where your Boss is spending a lot of time with you and/or he starts flirting with you.

These can all be discriminated against still today.

A fat person might hate attractive people and refuse to hire them.
A person might refuse to hire family because they don't like them or want to avoid nepotism claims or even company policy.
An atheist might not hire a Christian because they think poorly of them (or vice versa).
A person might not hire a friend or someone that is friends with a coworker to avoid possible nepotism claims or even company policy.
People might not hire a minority or an all-black company might not hire a white guy.

I'm basing all of this on my own perception of the statistics. If any of these seemed common to me, I might re-evaluate.

Slightly editted: Why would you work for someone if you can't trust them to only hire people that appear to be fully competent? If they were overboard on their affirmative action your job would be that much harder and you would never be rewarded for completing it.

All the more reason to be watchful of their hiring practices.

But still, what's the point? That's exactly how everyone thinks. I don't think someone is competent until they prove otherwise. Period. So, that doesn't make me a racist, it makes me a realist

Well that's how I see it. But you can't deny that I'm reacting to people differently based on skin color - which at its core is racist. I think I have a justifiable reason, but it is what it is. You operate without any distinction to race. You figure everyone might just not be qualified. I'm willing to assume that some groups aren't discriminated in favor of.

If AA didn't exist, and people didn't go out of their way to hire Black people to maintain "diversity" (of skin color), I'd go back to assuming that Black people were hired because of their merits and leave my reservations to nepotism. As it stands that's a little more difficult.

Two of my favorite political figures are Colin Powell and Condi Rice. I really want Rice to run for president in '08. Hell I wanted Powell to run for the position last go-around. When I first discovered those two (separately), I asked myself right away whether I thought they were where they are because of their skin color. I thought, "is this a political attempt to look diverse and maybe pick up the Black vote?". I was suspicious of the motives from the get-go. It wasn't until I heard them each speak that I realized how excellent they both are. Now, they're two of my favorite names in politics, yet initially I wondered about their qualifications. My favorite supreme court justice is Clarence Thomas, yet if I'd been old enough when he was appointed I'd have wondered if it was a move to appear non-racist and whether he really deserved it. One of my absolute favorite judges is Janice Rodgers Brown, but if she'd gotten farther than she has before I found out about her, I might have wondered about her qualifications as well.

Wow, come to think of it, I'm awfully pro-Black. My two favorite Judges are Black. My pick for president in '08 (at the moment) would be a hypothetical all-black Condi-Powell ticket (hell, if they ran I'd volunteer for the campaign). Yet initially I'm suspicious that it's all about appearances....

 

[FoolKiller]

I'm basing all of this on my own perception of the statistics. If any of these seemed common to me, I might re-evaluate.

This might be one of the differences between KY and CA. Around here I am more likely to be suspicious of racism against minorities than I am of affirmative action. Based on common what little I hear of southern California I would have to be more suspicious of liberalism run amok if I lived there. Perhaps regional differences are where we differ here.

Wow, come to think of it, I'm awfully pro-Black. My two favorite Judges are Black. My pick for president in '08 (at the moment) would be a hypothetical all-black Condi-Powell ticket (hell, if they ran I'd volunteer for the campaign). Yet initially I'm suspicious that it's all about appearances....

And this is why I don't think you are racist, I don't even think you are opposed to black people in the workplace, but you are opposed to the system of affirmative action and since black people benefit most from it you oppose that benefit, thus becoming suspicious of those that may have received unjust benefits.

I figure you can be suspicious of whomever you like, but don't have a negative attitude towards a black person because their job may be a result of AA. It is doubtful they walked in and said, "I am an affirmative action candidate. Give me a job." They probably don't even know if they were given that job for that reason. The person that hired them gave them the same lip service they gave you about how great that person is.

I think I just worry you may direct a negative attitude towards someone because a different person acted in an unjust manner. That would be just as bad as a black person blaming you personally for slavery. You didn't enslave anyone and they most likely didn't ask for preferential treatment.

 

[Perfect Balance]

This is why I appear rasict at times. I never really hear of white people doing that.

 

[Zrow]

Danoff, if you frequented/worked for (not that you would, but for the purposes of this argument) a company that you knew hired only whites, would you assume that they weren't qualified for the job as there may have been a black person more qualified?

 

[FoolKiller]

This is why I appear rasict at times. I never really hear of white people doing that.

What city is that? According to one guy I ain't from the town so I don't belong in the town. If that is hwo they treat tourists then I definitely don't want to show up there just because I got lost.

 

[Danoff]

Danoff, if you frequented/worked for (not that you would, but for the purposes of this argument) a company that you knew hired only whites, would you assume that they weren't qualified for the job as there may have been a black person more qualified?

First of all, I wouldn't work for a company like that. Secondly, I would certainly not assume that everyone in the company was the best person for the job. I'd never know if someone else would have been hired over me (which is part of the reason why I wouldn't work there).

Thirdly, I would assume that such a company would go out of business because they'd have a harder time competing with companies that didn't discriminate against potentially valuable employess (Hispanics, Asians, Blacks, etc.).

 

[LeadSlead#2]

Not in London it doesnt. Youd be the last people theyd suspect, as you would stick out like a sore thumb that you didnt belong there.

Oooohh. I'm sorry, London isnt the whole world.
So maybe in your vastly different culture I'd stand out as an American. But where I wouldnt stand out as a tourist, where that dress is common, they'd arrest me. why? because normal people don't stand around and watch people stab each other.

Its not a law. You guys are upset that black people have theyre own awards ceremony, right? (which I dont see a problem with)So should the muslims be upset that we have our own religious holidays, and ban that too?

I could care less if they have their own awards show, hell I hold the LeadSlead#2's best performances awards, and I always win. and that makes me a loser.
I DO care about negro colleges, where white people can't go. and black people don't have to try to accept white people - it's complete segragation, tell me it's not.

and your still comparing hosting awards and such to religions.
do you think a religious holiday is the same as a workplace, college, or anything similar, denying a race?
well, if the Muslims don't like other religious holidays, they're entitled to that, but to enforce non-celebration of those holidays, they must be willing to stop celebrating their own. that's the way equality works. if I can't have it, neither can you, and vice versa.

 

[Poverty]

^^Will reply later, its late now where I am.

Heard this song and thought of this thread. Have a listen guys.

http://www.zshare.net/audio/tyrese_-_chapter_126-mp3.html

 

[LeadSlead#2]

Oooohh. I'm sorry, London isnt the whole world.
So maybe in your vastly different culture I'd stand out as an American. But where I wouldnt stand out as a tourist, where that dress is common, they'd arrest me. why? because normal people don't stand around and watch people stab each other.

I thought of a better way to word this.

My point was, exactly what you said. I don't fit the "profile" of anything resembling "black", I don't act "black" or dress "black", or listen to much "black" music. (the whole "black" part seems pretty stereotypical, and If I were you, I'd stay away from it if I wanted to consider myself open minded)
Regardless, I don't fit "the profile"
However, I do fit the "young punk" profile, thats given to any young male (black, white, brown) who is not a complete, and total weiner
and therefore I wouldve been arrested. along with the fact that I just watched some guy get stabbed, and was then seen talking to one of the suspects.
and I am white.
However, if I had stayed there, I wouldve been arrested, talked to, maybe even driven to the station, in cuffs. but then, I wouldve given my statement, charges would not be pressed, and I'd be released.

Even if you werent arrested, they would have forced you to go to the station and give a statement, so the results wouldnt be much different.

Did you ever think maybe somebody else told that cop that the stabber was of muslim? maybe, just maybe, one of the bad guys tried pinning it on you, or more directly, him. people do that.
So, maybe, this was an honest cop, with no racism in his body, that was simply told by three people that your friend killed some guy. hmmmm....

 

[FoolKiller]

Poverty, can I get something straight here? You and your multiracial freind stand theer and watch a man get stabbed (attempted murder) while chit-chatting with a couple of the guys from the group that are guilty of the crime. Then when the cops show up teh group runs off, including the guys you were talking to, so that it looks like you were part of the group because you were interacting with them and the cops didn't see if you arrived seperately. So the cops then run in your direction, either at you or after the guys who just ran, and you took off running as well.

Out of all of this, how can you tell me that you don't look guilty of at least something? Why did you run? I bet I can go outside and just wait for a patrolling cop to come through the office complex and then look at them and run and I would be arrested. They would hold me until they can figure out who I was and what I was doing that made me run from them.

What makes you think that watching an attempted murder, hanginig out with the guilty group like buddies, and then running from teh cops makes you appear innocent?

In fact, why does anyone ever think that running from cops makes you are innocent is a good idea?

 

[Earth]

I am a colored person and I keep an eye out for racism. Being a 'mixed' person I have received racial hate from both blacks and whites, so I feel I am in a position to give a rather fair review of racism in the United States

Danoff, from what I see you seem to have grown a fear that you are somehow being discriminated against because of your color which I assume is white.

OK, I'll explain it like this. This world isn't fair. Affirmative action was created because of unfairness in the workplace. You may have only seen a few instances of racism in your lifetime but I have seen dozens of instances of racism in my lifetime, sometimes directed at me. I cannot imagine how bad it was pre Martin Luther King era in the United States.

Affirmative action is there to try and make all employers hire equally. If it was not in place there would be all white businesses etc everywhere. Does affirmative action sometimes put a lesser qualified black ahead of a white at times? I'm sure it does, but I am also sure it is a very rare occassion and is nothing to be cringing about.

Affirmative action is the lesser of the 2 evils. The 2 evils are:

- unqualified blacks getting jobs ahead of better qualified whites
- all white businesses etc

Which evil would you rather have? This world is not fair. You must make sacrifices in it.

Look, colored people, even with affirmative action, are still at a disadvantage. Compared to whites more of them grow up in poverty and more of them attend bad schools etc so their chances to succeed are already low.

The simple point is that there is no reason to be upset about affirmative action. There is plenty of jobs out there for the white men. That is seen quite easily at most businesses where all the presidents etc are white.

Another way to look at it is like this. Look at NASCAR's drive for diversity program. They have Bill Lester drive in certain races to try to equal the races out and give colored people a chance. Was there more qualified whites to drive than Bill Lester? Yes, but NASCAR gave him a chance over other people to try and equalize things. Are you going to get upset with them to do that?

In the end I think your main problem is that you have not been around enough racist situations. You say you've only seen a few times when racism happened but you also noted you grew up in an all white school.

Mr. Danoff, racism exists today and is still a very serious problem and always will be. By you being white I'm sure this caused you not to notice racist incidents or you stayed away from colored people enough not to see racist incidents, but believe me, racism is there. I know this from my current work place. I have been discriminated against and every single black who has been there for more than 20 years has told me stories about racist acts from my current employer.

Maybe you should talk with black people who have been around a while. you may be surprised to hear some of the stories they have to tell.

 

[Famine]

This world isn't fair.

Why try to balance out unfairness with more unfairness? Surely that just perpetuates unfairness?

Affirmative action is there to try and make all employers hire equally. If it was not in place there would be all white businesses etc everywhere.

Absolute nonsense. Prove to me that employers "everywhere" would hire whites no matter what the qualifications or experience of non-white applicants.

 

[Poverty]

I think generally white people are scared of black people, or dont know how to approach them, hence why most business are mainly white with then 1 black person and one asian, to make it welcoming for non-white customers.

 

[Gil]

I've been extremely busy of late and am late to the party...
I also have only read about 1/3 of the responses in the thread.
I say that so that if I repeat someone else's opinion, it was due to my own ignorance.

Everyone has some part of themselves that is, if not racist, discriminatory toward a group of people, whether it be due to religion, race, ethnicity, ethnocentrism, etc.
Add to that that people of different races hold fears about other races. Usually with "good" reason.
Whites fear blacks, because blacks fear whites and some feel some need for "retribution" for that whole kidnapping/slavery thing.
Remember, it used to be that White Americans that came here from England, were racist against any of the new White folks that came here from any country that wasn't England.
When Asians first came to this country, they were treated as badly as the newly freed slaves. I could go on, but I imagine you get the point. These are old "wounds" and they haven't completely healed, as yet.

Is it wrong? Somewhat.
Is it natural due to our experiences or upbringing to be that way? Yes.
I am personally against what affirmative action has become. However, its intentinon was honorable and good.
That said, I've busted my brown, furry ass to be better at what I do than those around me, because I wanted to make it because I was indeed the best person for the job. Even when I haven't "risen to the top", I've earned the respect of my peers and superiors.

Like some others of color. I have experienced some discrimination, and racism in my life. I was born in the heat of the American Civil Rights era. Thankfully, I lived in one of the most liberal places in the US during my "formative years". (San Francisco, CA)
I have, however, also dished out my fair share of "racism".
I grew up and married a woman of a different race. I also usually pursued women that were of other races.
I rarely pursued girls/women of my own race. My parents went the extra mile to ensure that we lived in the 'burbs among middle to upper middle class white people, so availability was also a bit of an issue.
But most of the black women that I found physically attractive, or that pursued me, put me off because they were too "ghetto" for my taste. However, I felt the same way about all the girls from the 'hood, regardless of their color. So maybe, that was ethnocentrism, rather than racism.

The point is, that I believe that as we age we get more cynical, and jaded.
That carries over to our feelings about race. The things we ignored as youths, we see. We also see the "patterns" that seem to emerge.
It sometimes seems that some "idiot" gets a break that we "deserved".
If you watch long enough the new "idiot" is the same race as the last "idiot".
Or perhaps, it's the boss' son, nephew, son-in-law, that got the break without "paying his dues".

As far as fairness is concerned. Life isn't fair. When it favors us it's as "unfair" to some other schmuck as it was to us when it favored someone else.
Is there some sort of solution? Unfortunately, no. The best you can hope for is for your successes to be noted by the right people.
Then those people have to be in the mood to give you the break.

But, if you plan to wait for "fair" treatment, bring a chair, something to read, and lunch. You'll have a long wait.
For your part, impart "fairness" when you can. Otherwise, keep sucking it up, and driving on. You'll get to be the "alpha dog" soon enough.👍

 

[Earth]

Why try to balance out unfairness with more unfairness? Surely that just perpetuates unfairness?

So it would seem, but I think affirmative action does more good then harm.

Prove to me that affirmative action etc takes jobs away from better qualified white people if it's such a big problem.

Absolute nonsense. Prove to me that employers "everywhere" would hire whites no matter what the qualifications or experience of non-white applicants.

I don't have to prove to you anything, I've experienced and heard about from many people racism in the workplace. You have not therefore you think employers love all races. You couldn't be more wrong. There have been studies that have proved a black person's voice alone can get him 'voice profiled' and dismissed from jobs etc.

If you think that if some employers were left unchecked that they (whites & blacks) wouldn't hire only their own race then that's your opinion. I'm sure most with experience in the field of the workplace and race would disagree.

Poverty you are right, white people tend to fear blacks and colored people for various reasons, and thinking colored people are unfairly being put ahead of them for a job is just another example of a false fear. First it was 'the mexicans are taking all our jobs!' Now it's 'affirmative action is giving lower qualified blacks our superior trained white's jobs!!'

Chill out

Blacks have been held back for hundreds of years in America and they aren't even close to having equal opportunites in America.

For every single job you think a poorly qualified black stole from a white a promise you that a white man was unfairly hired over a better qualified black 20 times.

Look,

A. You get upset when you think you see unqualified blacks make a speech or get a job when you think there is a better white lurking somewhere who was cheated out of a job or speech.

B. I get upset when I see whites at my work place not only start in a higher position then me with equal training and experience (even though they are hired months later) but they also move up faster than me.

Good advice for A and B

A: Get over it

B: Get over it

The world is like that, unfair, always has been and always will be. The difference between A and B though is that A is upset because white people are trying to give blacks a more equal chance. B is upset because whites are trying to not give blacks an equal chance.

Who should really be more upset?

 

[Sage]

Affirmative action is the lesser of the 2 evils. The 2 evils are:

- unqualified blacks getting jobs ahead of better qualified whites
- all white businesses etc

That is complete and utter nonsense, and I think you know it. Newsflash: not all white people are racist bigots, as you’ve just implied.

And if you’re discriminated against at your job, then why in the name of Bob are you still working there? There are plenty and plenty and plenty of non-racist employers out there. Plenty.

 

[Earth]

That is complete and utter nonsense, and I think you know it. Newsflash: not all white people are racist bigots, as you’ve just implied.

All I said was that without affirmative action there would be businesses who would basicly shut the door on blacks. That's the truth. No denying it. If it wasn't for Martin Luther King how do you think the US would be like now? Do you think it would be one big equal opportunity employer? No, it wouldn't.

And if you’re discriminated against at your job, then why in the name of Bob are you still working there? There are plenty and plenty and plenty of non-racist employers out there. Plenty.

I am trying to leave. But, all my family members have mentioned at least 1 person in power at their job who showed signs of being racist. It's almost everywhere, but really bad where I'm at.

 

[Famine]

I don't have to prove to you anything

No, you don't. But that completely invalidates the allegation you made - that employers everywhere would only hire whites if they were left to their own devices. If you have evidence to back it up, then back it up. If not, stop making things up.

I've experienced and heard about from many people racism in the workplace. You have not therefore you think employers love all races.

Yeah, sure, I'm 12 years old and never had a job...

Read back a few posts and see that part where my employer vetoed my choice of employee because of their religion.

You couldn't be more wrong. There have been studies that have proved a black person's voice alone can get him 'voice profiled' and dismissed from jobs etc.

If you think that if some employers were left unchecked that they (whites & blacks) wouldn't hire only their own race then that's your opinion. I'm sure most with experience in the field of the workplace and race would disagree.

Any employer who hires anyone but the best person for a job is an idiot. Idiots don't last long in capitalism.

All I said was that without affirmative action there would be businesses who would basicly shut the door on blacks.

So what? See the above point.

Question: With or without Affirmative Action, are there businesses who would basically shut the door on "whites"?

Blacks have been held back for hundreds of years in America and they aren't even close to having equal opportunites in America.

And "they" won't ever have it, so long as policies which inherently treat "them" unequally are made.

 

[Sage]

All I said was that without affirmative action there would be businesses who would basicly shut the door on blacks.

Yes, there would be some, but not “everywhere”, as you said. There definitely would be a few – but who cares? As a whole, Gen X and Y are so intolerant of racism that any business that operated like that would go out of business in no time. Capitalism works better than most people give it credit for.

See, this is a good example of how ineffective AA is: It forces those racist business owners to pretend to not be racist a-holes, so they end up hiring minorities and treating them like crap, while people still buy from the business because they can’t see past the façade. But if AA weren’t in place, said business owners would have all of their colors showing, and so people would know 1) not to work there and 2) not to buy there.

I am trying to leave. But, all my family members have mentioned at least 1 person in power at their job who showed signs of being racist. It's almost everywhere, but really bad where I'm at.

Out of curiosity, what part of the country do you live in? If it’s genuinely that bad, you should consider moving – around here, racism is practically nonexistent, and it’s something I rarely even think about. It’s so diverse here that any racist bigots would just be wasting their time.

 

[OZZYGT]

Ok. Earth, I think you are right in a way but wrong in another.

Martin Luther King was indeed a turn over in the racism situtation here in the States. But you can't say that only because of him white people are less racist than before. As a lot of people have already stated before, not hiring the best qualified one for a particular position because of racism, would be a not very smart idea.
Time has passed and every race community has changed. You are under-estimating your own race by saying that without affirmative action black people wouldn't have a chance to get a nice job that many other white candidates would have easily have.

I do agree with the fact that there are many racist employers, and that doesn't exclude black employers either. Racism can come from anyone for various reasons, and honestly, most of those reasons are because of past experiences with former employees. I work as a manager at Wendy's (a not very sophisticated job) but we do have issues with hiring black people. Do not think that I'm racist because of skin color, but I do judge them for their performance and personality. Just an example; 94% of my employees are white and hispanic, I have 3 black kids working for me. I chose them because I looked at the "personality test" results that they take when they apply. You know why I do now? because prior of having those 3 colored kids, EVERY black employee that I had, was either very rude or apathetic with my costumers or other employees. I treat every employee equally, with respect and charm, since I'm very young for my position I even try to be "best friends" with them just so they feel comfortable with the management staff.

Now, I've seen racism coming out of white employers towards WHITE people, like I said before, it's all due to your level of productivity and interest for the job. At this point, everyone has discovered that a person who has the talent and capability of performing job duties, has certainly the right of earning the job; regardless of skin color.

So in my opinion, stereotypes play a big role in the racism issue. A bussiness that practices affirmative action, know why they do it; it's a matter of getting more money...like in any sales store; employers who hire colored race salespeople over white ones, probably do it because if a balck/asian/hispanic person walks in the store, feels more comfortable working a deal with another individual from their same race.

Just my 2 cents.



Ciao!

 

[Sonzilla]

I completely understand where Earth is coming from. He says all white businesses I disagree I would say most white businesses not all.
I'm colored as well grew up in the 80's and 90's there was racism there and still today there is racism. I was discriminated tons of times but I'm not racist. Even with all the things I've been through I never judge others by the color of their skin. I've worked with NASCAR and still work in a predominantly Caucasian work force and got called names and all but I'm not going to spoil a friendship with my job or a white person because of a couple of bad apples or change my view toward others. I never judge anyone by the color of their skin. I live in an almost all white neighborhood I get blamed for loud music driving fast all kinds of crap. But that's not going to keep me from moving cause that's what they want. They want me to leave. I just go to neighbor to neighbor and try and start a comfortable relationship with them. Some of the white neighbors I speak with never interacted with a black person before. So they always have this prejudgment about me then later they say wow I can't believe your so nice your not like the others. Oh man do I get annoyed when I hear that. But it's a fact that most white people just plain don't know and society and media feed bad things about colored people to Caucasians that we all are bad people. It's sad but true I'm living proof I tell my stories to all kinds of people. As long as I'm living I'm always going to try to make a change for the better even tho I know the person or persons may not like me.

Let me give you an example of what happened to me today simple racism.
I live in Palm beach Florida. I decided to go to a restaurant locally predominantly rich white Caucasian restaurant. As soon as I stepped out of my car walking toward the restaurant I immediately started to get ugly looks from people eating outside. They even started to make gestures and words like I didn't belong there. I continued to walk in the restaurant and wasn't even greeted by the bus boy who was white. I stood their for 10min and Finlay someone asked me do I need help. I said yes I would like a menu please. Waiter#1 told me that I had to be with two persons to sit at a table. I interrupted and told him no I just want a menu I plan on coming back another time I just want to see what you guys serve here. Waiter #1 "oh I will be right back. Waiter # 2 "are you here for a job application" I said no I'm waiting on the waiter for a menu. waiter #2 "2 persons are allowed for a table". I told her I know, then repeated to waiter #2 what I said to waiter #1 . Got my Menu and left. Went home and called the restaurant asked the Manager unanimously, I want to know do you have a table limit as far as seatings he said no. We have tables outside and indoors for your liking. HMMMM is this not racism?


Bottom line racism will always be here as long as we live and all we can do is try to leave all that in the past and move on and love one an another.

It's very simple do not judge by the color of their skin.

 

[Kylehnat]

It's very simple do not judge by the color of their skin.

...and therefore it follows that nobody should be hired based on the color of their skin, either.

Everyone has some part of themselves that is, if not racist, discriminatory toward a group of people, whether it be due to religion, race, ethnicity, ethnocentrism, etc.

And sometimes, we discriminate against someone, just because we don't like them. If race enters this equation, then it gets messy. Many people sue their companies when they get fired, citing the old "I got fired because I am black/Hispanic/Asian/etc." excuse. No, you probably got fired for being a lousy employee. Some people refuse to accept that by and large, we are not a racist society anymore (though certain individuals are).

Yes, there would be some, but not “everywhere”, as you said. There definitely would be a few – but who cares? As a whole, Gen X and Y are so intolerant of racism that any business that operated like that would go out of business in no time.

This ties in with what I said earlier. The bigots who somehow make hiring decisions are on their way out. My parents' generation was probably the first generation of Americans not raised in fear of a certain race (since they were born after WWII). They're rising into power in many places. As subsequent generations enter the workforce and rise up the ladder, racism becomes even less of a factor.

 

[OZZYGT]

You're right Sonzilla, racism will always be present in this world. But puting your example aside, do you think that people from other ethnicity other than black are "racist" because of skin color?
The fact that most criminals on "COPS" are black, for instance, does influence a lot of non-black people to think of youre race like that.
Black people have got a reputation of being of strong personality and very impulsive and defensive towards non-black people.

Your story is indeed an example of racism, but like you said, if they have known you better, they would have said "ohh he's nice! not like the others...." and this is not their fault to think like that. How do you expect a couple of people that haven't interacted with a black person before to be un-surprised of your kindness and friendliness? if all that we see on TV, movies, and specially TODAY'S BLACK MUSIC is nothing but a bad image for your own people.
This is why I never discriminate people for their skin color, because I know that there are black devils and white devils.

Like I sid in my last post, stereotypes is something that makes people being racist,, that's why I hate stereotypes of anything.
I assure you that those waiters at the restaurant thought that if you were there for a job, they would have been like "oohhh he's gonna 'cause trouble" or " no, I wouldn't like to work with him because he seems very un-cool". If they new you wanted to eat there, then probably wanted to avoid any confrontation between you and them while serving you're food. It's just the whole thinking of black people = violent that make people act differently towards others. Also, how were you dressed when you stepped off your vehicle? if you were not properly dressed when you went there...might have led to the thinking "oohh we gotta keep our reputation of being a classy restaurant" as you said it was like an expensive restaurant or so.

Look at it from this point. why do you think little kids are not racist in school?? I'm talking about 5-12 year old ones. Becasue they haven't been exposed to mass media and the outside world where they can find out the false impression of colored people. As we grow up, we learn that the difference between a race an another is about our background, our way of thinking, our history and some people don't know how to conrol their feelings on these aspects. Speaking the truth, racist will exist from both parties because one is acting too defensive and the other one is reacting badly to that action. There are millions of magnificent black people in this world, who like you Sonzilla, try to leave racism behind and just keep moving on, but millions of other black people have not left their past get behind their heads and start thinking ahead, realize that time has changed and that reacting violently with resentment towards white people is doing nothing but making things worse. I'm not saying, forget your past; but why taking all your anger out on people who didn't have anything to do with what happened decades ago just because of their race and act like you are counter-atacking racism???

That's when I say racism will never end, because the past victims of it, are not acting like why they should have never been victims of racism.



Ciao!

 

[Sonzilla]

Mr.OzzyGT: very true well said.
I was wearing jeans and a collard shirt not baggy at all. Best way to describe me is I'm like a skater punk rock type of guy like NERD "Pharrell".
The whole music thing I hate it. It's totally the wrong image for African Americans. When will they realize this. They need to stop glorifying gangster rap. It should belong on HBO or something, after hours. White people feed on this because that's all the media shows "Gangster Rap" Then they see the same people in videos on the street kids with baggy cloths and talking all uneducated. If you dress like a gangster expect to be treated like one stereotype is a bitch but what do you expect when you dress just like a gang member in a rap video where their talking about running from cops and selling drugs. This is exactly why they think were violent. I mean WTF!!! This is the thing I hate the most about our people.
Parents play a huge role and they need to do a better job at monitoring what their kids are watching and listening too. Because the media is money hungry with all means necessary.

IMO this is one of the main reasons why white people are racist right there. Most black people like to do gangster things and dress like thugs when their not. Making my day just that harder to go by.

...and therefore it follows that nobody should be hired based on the color of their skin, either.

Agreed
Affirmative action is good but more bad. For me to talk about this would take forever and I'm just too tired to type. Bottom line, it's not such a good idea we need to come up with a different way.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

Okay, for the story tellers, not that they're bad, but everybody can tell a story, and retaliate with another, that's just not the way to convince somebody what your saying is true.

@Earth :your NASCAR story, was a particularly bad one. because that's just ****ing dangerous. And moronic, was it bad for NASCAR to do that? YES. YES. they sucsesfully endangered all 40+ drivers on the track, if they let somebody race who wasnt qualified, as you say.

Now, EARTH, you say, black people and minorities are more likely to grow up in poverty, therefore they need a helping hand, to get the job.
THIS, does 2 things: 1. Gives wealthy minorities an unfair advantage over wealthy white people. 2. give poor minorities and advantage over poor white people.
What about poor white people? what, you don't think they exist? find a damn trailor park, if you can't fin enough in the city, go find trailor homes all over America.

Sonzilla, maybe, before you scream racisim, like every other minority, send a white guy, dressed like he's got less money, I don't know what you may have been wearing, but send a white guy in the same clothes, that acts, and walks just like you. see what they say to him.
I've gone to fancier resturants already, and gotten dirty looks from just about everybody there, and I'm very distiguishably white.

And for all: I've heard stories from minorities I know, and seen some of them first hand. most important factor: there are 2 sides to every story. most of the times I've seen where somebody was bitching, whether they didnt get the job, didnt get a raise, or didnt get promoted, anything, the story was pure crap. whether the story teller was black, white, latin, or even asian once, people lie, and bull**** when it comes to these things, because they want an excuse.

Anyways, as far as "retribution" everybody mentions, and all this talk of slavery. shut up. you are an a-hole. what do you think a slave would say to you? (assuming he didnt beat you to death) what would a REAL slave think of all this? give the slaves a bit of respect, as they had to bust their balls day in and day out, no matter what, something you will NEVER have to do. I just hear people mention that all the white's who owned slaves are dead, there's no way to get them back. well, you were never a slave, and you never met one either, not in America, and you have no idea the hardships they endured, so you have no right including yourself with them.

QUOTE-EARTH By you being white I'm sure this caused you not to notice racist incidents or you stayed away from colored people enough not to see racist incidentsyou have to read, before you speak, and the first half, is utter crap, and a racist assumption that white people dont notice racisim

QUOTE-EARTH All I said was that without affirmative action there would be businesses who would basicly shut the door on blacks.
mmm no. you said "everywhere" I know this because it's still posted.

 

[Dave A]

I completely understand where Earth is coming from. He says all white businesses I disagree I would say most white businesses not all.

Can you prove this, back it up with any figures or staistics.

I'm colored as well grew up in the 80's and 90's there was racism there and still today there is racism. I was discriminated tons of times but I'm not racist. Even with all the things I've been through I never judge others by the color of their skin.

You've already juidged most white businesses as being racist.

I've worked with NASCAR and still work in a predominantly Caucasian work force and got called names and all but I'm not going to spoil a friendship with my job or a white person because of a couple of bad apples or change my view toward others.

Do you think this is a one way thing only, do you think there's no blacks that ar racist towards whites as well, do you think there are no asians that are racist towards blacks and.or whites as well. Theres an element of it in every culture.

I never judge anyone by the color of their skin. I live in an almost all white neighborhood I get blamed for loud music driving fast all kinds of crap.

And in all honesty answer this, do you drive fast and listen to loud music? If you do, or even if you have done in the past and got a reputation from that, then your point here isn't valid. I know in my area if a black kid did that he'd get told not to by the neighbours, but so would a white kid or asian kid. If they were being a nuisance to me, regardless of race, I'd tell them. The question is, would the person I'm having a go at try pulling the race card, which in this day and age is all too easy to pull.

But that's not going to keep me from moving cause that's what they want. They want me to leave. I just go to neighbor to neighbor and try and start a comfortable relationship with them. Some of the white neighbors I speak with never interacted with a black person before. So they always have this prejudgment about me then later they say wow I can't believe your so nice your not like the others. Oh man do I get annoyed when I hear that.

Your describing an area rather unlike anywhere I've ever visited.

But it's a fact that most white people

Your not making assumptions based on a persons skin colour here are you?

just plain don't know and society and media feed bad things about colored people to Caucasians that we all are bad people. It's sad but true I'm living proof I tell my stories to all kinds of people.

Oh, so you are.

I can't really agree with your points here, because while you are making good points about how racism is still an issue in places, your clouding it by judging most whites at the same time.

Now going onto your example in the restaurant but with what yu said in a slighty different order to clear up perspective.

Let me give you an example of what happened to me today simple racism.
I live in Palm beach Florida. I decided to go to a restaurant locally predominantly rich white Caucasian restaurant.

Right, so the restaurant is a more classy, upper market restaurant then.

I was wearing jeans and a collard shirt not baggy at all. Best way to describe me is I'm like a skater punk rock type of guy like NERD "Pharrell".

So you wern't dressed in any way whatsoever to fit into the atmosphere of this resaurant.

As soon as I stepped out of my car walking toward the restaurant I immediately started to get ugly looks from people eating outside. They even started to make gestures and words like I didn't belong there. I continued to walk in the restaurant and wasn't even greeted by the bus boy who was white.

Is that really any suprise, it's a classy restaurant with primarilly wealthy people i it, forget skin colour, primarilly wealthy people. You turn up dressed like a member of NERD and you get funny looks, I would get funny looks there dressed like that, Famine would get funny looks dressed like that there, anyone would, white or black. Is it arrogant, yes but it would happen to anyone.