America - The Official Thread

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The floor is yours
How generous of you to give another user posting permissions.
You’re a smart guy. You can take a stab at how there’s potential for expedient minimum wage, environmental and healthcare changes can do harm to both the lower and middle class in first world countries.
It still doesn't work like that. Your claim, your job to prove it - stop asking other people to do your job on your claims for you:
Today conservatives are ready to throw away the entire concept of America, from representative government to human rights. I suppose if you consider it going back to a monarchy, it's ultra-conservative, meaning pre-1776. Meanwhile liberals are advocating for things like raised minimum wage, universal healthcare, environmental regulation... pretty normal stuff. Stuff they've been talking about for decades. That doesn't strike me as "equally blinded" by a long shot. Right wingers are trying to burn down the very institutions the country was founded on, and left wingers are still trying to help the poor a little more.
Nor does every issue you just brought up, not have potential to harm both the lower and middle class by means of “unintended consequences”, if not gone about properly by incremental change (if at all), as opposed to “sweeping change”.
How fast - between "incremental" and "sweeping" - do changes to minimum wage, universal healthcare, and environmental regulation need to be before they become more harmful than people who want to install a dictator and destroy the foundations of your nation?

If the answer is that there is no speed where this becomes more dangerous, you are falsely equivocating (again).

It's not wisdom to falsely equivocate.
 
How generous of you to give another user posting permissions.

It still doesn't work like that. Your claim, your job to prove it:


How fast - between "incremental" and "sweeping" - do changes to minimum wage, universal healthcare, and environmental regulation need to be before they become more harmful than people who want to install a dictator and destroy the foundations of your nation?

Your claim. You prove it. Stop asking other people to do your job on your claims for you.


Negative. I didn’t make a claim. I made an assessment. I’m trying to get a feel where others are coming from. Nor am I trying to convince anyone to take hold of my stance - I know where I stand in regards to this

These themes of how increase of minimum wage, environmental regulation, universal healthcare - and how they can negatively impact the lower and middle class by way of unintended consequences existed looooong before Trump.

- Long before Trump. You’re smart enough to know that.


Just asking people (and now yourself) to play devils advocate, on why people whom aren’t necessarily politically motivated, make the voting decisions they do, based on personal priorities that aren’t necessary social issues
 
Negative. I didn’t make a claim.
I just quoted it.

You're attempting to draw equivalence between the two things @Danoff stated - social programs and the destruction of the American political and social apparatus by religious fascists - by stating that the former has chance to cause harm too. Right after a post reminding you about false equivocation.

Back it up this equivalence, or concede it's a false equivalence. Either way, stop demanding others shoot it down for you; this is bad faith engagement.

And you can pack this crap in as well:

You’re a smart guy.
You’re smart enough to know that.
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Edit: Huh, weird. That wasn't one of the two options at all.

Edit: Nope, that wasn't one of the whole two options either. Let's see if third time's the charm or if the Carlson/Rogan-esque "just asking questions" innocence card carries on taking priority over a direct instruction from site staff...

Edit: It wasn't. I tried.
 
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Explain to me in (cliff note) detail, how the quick rise of minimum wage mandates, universal healthcare, and environmental regulations don’t have the potential to cause harm to BOTH the lower and middle class.Edit:

This isn’t an “American-exclusive” problem by any means, but a 1st world problem that’s been manifesting.
Because as the old saying has gone in meme format, other major 1st world countries have figured out how to implement these things where they benefit everyone way more than they cause harm.

The only American-exclusive problem is that we have corporate lobbyists who don't want it changed b/c their money is more important than you, I, & everyone else. Therefore, they spit out those things are bad in hopes someone like you repeats it.
 
Because as the old saying has gone in meme format, other major 1st world countries have figured out how to implement these things where they benefit everyone way more than they cause harm.

The only American-exclusive problem is that we have corporate lobbyists who don't want it changed b/c their money is more important than you, I, & everyone else. Therefore, they spit out those things are bad in hopes someone like you repeats it.
Also, if speed was actually a problem, most other major 1st world countries started in on these policies decades ago. America lies in a bed that it made for itself by pushing back against them for so long. If that now means that radical change is required instead of the sensible, methodical progression that they could have had, I think I have a tiny violin somewhere.
 
A top Georgia Republican Party official and talk show host accused of election fraud, Brian K. Pritchard, testified Friday that he never voted illegally while serving a felony sentence for forging checks, but state attorneys showed evidence that he repeatedly voted after his probation had been revoked.

Pritchard, the first vice chairman for the state Republican Party, allegedly broke the law when he voted in nine Georgia elections from 2008 to 2010. Georgia law prohibits felons from voting, and attorneys for the state said Pritchard’s probation didn’t end until 2011.

“There is nothing to the allegations,” Pritchard said after the hearing in the Gilmer County Courthouse. ”I’m just disappointed that this much time is being put into this effort for me when there’s real voter fraud out there, and real things that need to be investigated.”

Pritchard told a judge he thought he had completed his three-year probation sentence in Pennsylvania in 1999, and he wouldn’t have voted in Georgia if he knew his probation had been repeatedly extended over the years while a collection agency sought payment.

Senior Assistant Attorney General Russell Willard told the judge that Pritchard knew better, and his excuses don’t absolve him when Pennsylvania court records indicate he hadn’t finished his sentence.

“He has said he is a sophisticated businessman, but suddenly he doesn’t seem to understand the criminal law,” Willard said. “This is someone who chooses when they don’t want to understand something. When he came to Georgia, he was aware that he was registering to vote illegally in Georgia.”

Willard asked Administrative Law Judge Lisa Boggs to order a $9,500 fine — $1,000 for each alleged illegal vote and $500 for registering to vote while he was a felon — along with a public reprimand, a cease and desist order, and reimbursement of investigative costs. Boggs said she would decide the case in the coming weeks.

Pritchard, the head of FetchYourNews.com, has said on his show that the 2020 presidential election was “stolen,” an unsubstantiated claim that has been debunked in Georgia by three vote counts and multiple investigations.

Before he became a leader of the state Republican Party last year, Pritchard attacked Republican Gov. Brian Kemp and Republican Attorney General Chris Carr for being “complicit” in Democrat Joe Biden’s victory in Georgia. The attorney general’s office handled the case against Pritchard on behalf of the State Election Board, which reviewed the allegations in 2021.

Pritchard testified that he pleaded “no contest” to two counts of forgery and one count of theft by taking involving payments of $38,000 while he was working on a construction job in 1996. Pritchard acknowledged that he endorsed and deposited a check made out with someone else’s name but said he didn’t profit and the construction companies involved were repaid.

To support his case, Pritchard showed a document from the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles restoring his right to own a firearm in 2017. The Georgia document indicates his Pennsylvania felony was closed in 1999.

But the state’s attorneys introduced court records from 2002, 2004 and 2011 — each time his probation had been extended.

Pritchard said he didn’t know his sentence was still active during that time, though Willard produced a court document with his signature in 2011 acknowledging his probation could be revoked.

Pritchard’s attorney said he was the victim of Pennsylvania’s court system and its use of a collections agency that kept the case alive long after everyone had been repaid.

“The sentence was supposed to be over. The only way to find he was voting as a felon here is to uphold an unlawful court order in Pennsylvania,” said Pritchard’s attorney, George Weaver Jr.

Willard said Pritchard knew what he was doing.

“I think we know what’s going on here,” Willard said. “The witness came in with a story in his mind and was not going to be shaken on that and claimed a lack of understanding or a lack of knowledge.”

Before becoming a Republican Party official, Pritchard ran unsuccessfully last year for the state House seat that Speaker David Ralston held before he died in 2022.

The election fraud case against Pritchard doesn’t include criminal charges. If the judge finds Pritchard voted illegally, he could face fines or a public reprimand, but he couldn’t be sentenced to jail time.
Republicans: "ELECTION FRAUD!!!

Republicans: "ReEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEe!!¡!"

[Republicans perpetrate election fraud]

Republicans: "TOLD YOU SO!!!
 
Nor does every issue you just brought up, not have potential to harm both the lower and middle class by means of “unintended consequences”, if not gone about properly by incremental change (if at all), as opposed to “sweeping change”.


But I’m sure you already know that
I did know that. But it does not undermine my point that it's a false equivalence. You want to say both sides are equally blind. It should be apparent that they're not.

Explain to me in (cliff note) detail, how the quick rise of minimum wage mandates, universal healthcare, and environmental regulations don’t have the potential to cause harm to BOTH the lower and middle class.


Edit:

This isn’t an “American-exclusive” problem by any means, but a 1st world problem that’s been manifesting
There is no need, because the standard is not whether each side might cause any harm at all through any possible consequences. The standard is whether these relatively benign things are equivalent to destroying democracy and human rights. The answer should be obvious to you.
 
The Army has canceled the FARA next-generation scout/attack helicopter program. Ultimately this is going to save about $5b of future development costs which can be put toward payroll increases and scout/attack UAV programs. The Ukraine war has taught us a lot about the usefulness of UAVs in high-risk roles and I'm glad to see the Army learning from it.

 

Republicans: "ELECTION FRAUD!!!

Republicans: "ReEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEe!!¡!"

[Republicans perpetrate election fraud]

Republicans: "TOLD YOU SO!!!
There's not an honest one among them is there?

It's almost like dishonesty is a prerequisite when joining the party.
 
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The Army has canceled the FARA next-generation scout/attack helicopter program. Ultimately this is going to save about $5b of future development costs which can be put toward payroll increases and scout/attack UAV programs. The Ukraine war has taught us a lot about the usefulness of UAVs in high-risk roles and I'm glad to see the Army learning from it.



Unfortunately this might be curtains for Sikorsky after also losing the FLRAA contract to Bell last year. Shame if that happens because the X2 technology seems really promising and a genuine evolution of helicopters. Sikorsky ought to market the Raider to the coast guard or civilian VIP transport duties if the US Military doesn't see a need for it - a 250mph Helicopter that doesn't have the ridiculous complexity of a tilt rotor seems like a super useful thing for rescue operations or rich people commuting.
 
Unfortunately this might be curtains for Sikorsky after also losing the FLRAA contract to Bell last year. Shame if that happens because the X2 technology seems really promising and a genuine evolution of helicopters. Sikorsky ought to market the Raider to the coast guard or civilian VIP transport duties if the US Military doesn't see a need for it - a 250mph Helicopter that doesn't have the ridiculous complexity of a tilt rotor seems like a super useful thing for rescue operations or rich people commuting.
Sikorsky still has the highly lucrative UH-60 program and the growing CH-53K for now, along with existing commercial sales. I think they will eventually push the X2 technology into civilian or export sales designs in the future, if they continue with it. Though there is a potential for a MH-6 replacement coming in the next few years...
 
Sikorsky still has the highly lucrative UH-60 program and the growing CH-53K for now, along with existing commercial sales. I think they will eventually push the X2 technology into civilian or export sales designs in the future, if they continue with it. Though there is a potential for a MH-6 replacement coming in the next few years...
X2 tech is is spectacular for medical evac and search and rescue because of the speed. I'm actually watching a helicopter take off the top of my local hospital as I type, watching it accelerate away (slowly). Even on the short regional jaunts that our medical helicopters make, an X2 airframe could save a couple minutes on each flight. What really matters for these helicopters is speed and footprint because the cost to rebuilt commercial and private helipads into something that can accomodate tiltrotors isn't very feasible. It'll be a long road I'm sure but within the next 10-15 years I bet X2 will start selling well in the civilian space. That said, who knows how the FAA would certify them in terms of type rating requirements...without an equivalent airframe in the military it may be prohibitively expensive for pilots to get certified in an X2 airframe.
 

"The informant’s claims have been central to the Republican effort in Congress to investigate the president and his family, and helped spark what is now a House impeachment inquiry into Biden.

Prosecutors say that [FBI informant Alexander] Smirnov had contact with Burisma executives, but it was routine and actually took place in 2017, after President Barack Obama and Biden, his vice president, had left office -- when Biden would have had no ability to influence U.S. policy."

An FBI informant lying?

 
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"The informant’s claims have been central to the Republican effort in Congress to investigate the president and his family, and helped spark what is now a House impeachment inquiry into Biden.

Prosecutors say that [FBI informant Alexander] Smirnov had contact with Burisma executives, but it was routine and actually took place in 2017, after President Barack Obama and Biden, his vice president, had left office -- when Biden would have had no ability to influence U.S. policy."

An FBI informant lying?

What the hell is going on there? Biden needs to get more sleep, I notice in some of his presidential addresses and dinners he gets drowsy and slurs his speech some.
 
What the hell is going on there? Biden needs to get more sleep, I notice in some of his presidential addresses and dinners he gets drowsy and slurs his speech some.
He has a speech disorder in which he stammers which he admits happens when he's a bit tired.
 
That's the real worrisome issue with this new judgement against Trump. There are foreign billionaires who will likely be willing to lend money to pay his fines, with the expectation that they will have influence over Trump should he be president again. What an incredible national security risk, to have our president beholden to outside interests for hundreds of millions of dollars.

IMG_3110.jpeg
 
That's the real worrisome issue with this new judgement against Trump. There are foreign billionaires who will likely be willing to lend money to pay his fines, with the expectation that they will have influence over Trump should he be president again. What an incredible national security risk, to have our president beholden to outside interests for hundreds of millions of dollars.

View attachment 1329053

That's rather disturbing news. Ugh, what's Trump gonna start now. If he's siding with Russia he must be up to no good.
 
In the first post-Trump survey, we see a significant bump for recent Democratic presidents with each one moving up in the rankings while each of the recent Republican presidents dropped down, with the exception of President Trump who remained at the bottom of the rankings
When you're already at the bottom, you can't go down any lower. But that hasn't stopped him from trying.
 
TB

When you're already at the bottom, you can't go down any lower. But that hasn't stopped him from trying.
Well they were saying a while back on CNN that they were going to re-elect Trump. I'm surprised after what happened at the White House in 2020. You know, that bombing. He didn't even check on Mike Pence which was one of his friends to see if he was okay.
 
TB

When you're already at the bottom, you can't go down any lower. But that hasn't stopped him from trying.
You missed the best part.
Republican Rank: 41
Conservative Rank: 43

For Biden, these 2 categories were 30 for each.
 
Well they were saying a while back on CNN that they were going to re-elect Trump. I'm surprised after what happened at the White House in 2020. You know, that bombing. He didn't even check on Mike Pence which was one of his friends to see if he was okay.
Excuse Me What GIF by Bounce
 
Pence probably doesn't hang with Trump these days, but it's not for want of trying.
 
Well they were saying a while back on CNN that they were going to re-elect Trump. I'm surprised after what happened at the White House in 2020. You know, that bombing. He didn't even check on Mike Pence which was one of his friends to see if he was okay.
Trump has no friends. He has people he uses then discards when he feels they are of no further use to him or of they wronged him.
 
Well Mike was his vice president so they had to for a long good while.
Trump cut all ties with Pence the moment Pence "refused" to overturn the election, something Pence has said he had no actual power to do so. Since then, Pence has no further relationship with Trump & said the party needed new leadership.
 
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