America - The Official Thread

[DDastardly00]

The media plays everything up for ratings, I thought people figured that out a long time ago, but I guess they are still being duped. What's hilarious is Trump is backing Flynn's call for immunity. I've said it before and I'll say it again, until I see actual evidence, there is N O T H I N G to see here, it's time for the tin-foil hatters to move along and go do something constructive. This whole Russia thing is the new conspiracy theory de jour, the new birther movement, and soon to be the butt of every joke. If Comey had something, he would've come forward by now.

 

[Eh Team]

The oldest trick in the book: Americans backpacking around the world with Canadian flags displayed prominently on their persons. Never accept a "Canadian" at face value - ask them for hockey stats.

There's an even better way because some Americans are really into hockey, ask them who/what the governor general is. Watch them get completely confused as to what you're asking.

 

[huskeR32]

What's hilarious is Trump is backing Flynn's call for immunity.

You say "hilarious," I say "bordering on witness tampering."

 

[DDastardly00]

You say "hilarious," I say "bordering on witness tampering."

You can say that, but it doesn't make it true.

 

[Biggles]

The media plays everything up for ratings, I thought people figured that out a long time ago, but I guess they are still being duped. What's hilarious is Trump is backing Flynn's call for immunity. I've said it before and I'll say it again, until I see actual evidence, there is N O T H I N G to see here, it's time for the tin-foil hatters to move along and go do something constructive. This whole Russia thing is the new conspiracy theory de jour, the new birther movement, and soon to be the butt of every joke. If Comey had something, he would've come forward by now.

Possibly - we'll see how it plays out. But wait ... Dotini LIKES this?! "Pizzagate Dotini?!

 

[DDastardly00]

Possibly - we'll see how it plays out. But wait ... Dotini LIKES this?! "Pizzagate Dotini?!

Unfortunately, if you believe certain a congressman anyway, it's going to take the rest of this year for the Russia thing to play out. Which means we will not have any firm answers soon (if ever) and chances are, we will collectively be so tired of the topic by then that we won't care what the final answer is

I moved on a long time ago. I'm just focused on what the Transportation infrastructure bill will be and the tax restructuring bill, and if they can figure out a compromise on health care bill, that would be nice too. Of course I can also wish for a cure for cancer as well, doesn't mean I will get one.

 

[Sanji Himura]

It was fact, not fake - even the publisher* referenced the language of Nazi ideology that he used in some of his videos when he apologised. Go figure.

*Pewd? really? I thought one had to be at least 13 at this forum?

I guess that you think that JonTron is a Nazi sympathizer too for not a serious debate seriously. Because the WSJ, among other outlets, did the same thing to him as they did to PewDiePie.

 

[Scaff]

I guess that you think that JonTron is a Nazi sympathizer too for not a serious debate seriously. Because the WSJ, among other outlets, did the same thing to him as they did to PewDiePie.

PDP's stunt and comments were stupid and in my view the WSJ went a little overboard with regard to them. However JonTron is a different issue, even after his 'retraction' come across as very white supremacist.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I guess that you think that JonTron is a Nazi sympathizer too for not a serious debate seriously. Because the WSJ, among other outlets, did the same thing to him as they did to PewDiePie.

I was trying to speak to the increasing tribalization of our culture. These days, we're taught to think in explicitly racial or ethnic categories, or in terms of gender or sexual orientation, and I think this in itself plays a big hand in what's gotten our country into the volatile state that it's in. The simple point I was trying to make is that it's hypocritical for those who see everything in terms of race to suddenly turn around and object when white people speak up in what they believe are the best interests of their race.

Those are JonTron's own words, just as quoteable as "Pewd", as we might call him now.

 

[Joey D]

I have no idea who JonTron is, and I still have no idea who Pew Pew Pie is but I'm almost certain based on their comments they are neckbeards who do lots of m'ladying.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I have no idea who JonTron is, and I still have no idea who Pew Pew Pie is but I'm almost certain based on their comments they are neckbeards who do lots of m'ladying.

Two of the most famous youtube personalities, so no on the second portion.

 

[Joey D]

Two of the most famous youtube personalities, so no on the second portion.

I just tried to watch one of JonTron's videos, it's a neckbeard shouting about video games and I don't know how that can be the most popular thing on YouTube. PewPie seems like the same thing too, although he isn't a neckbeard, just a dude with a really punchable face.

I must be getting old because I don't understand how or why anyone would want to watch this stuff.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I must be getting old because I don't understand how or why anyone would want to watch this stuff.

I never really liked PewDiePie but he has calmed down a bit over the last couple years. I stick to YouTube gamers that are far more tolerable like Markiplier, jacksepticeye (loud but not crazy), Vanoss, his immediate friends, and Jeff Favignano.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Suicide with two in the back of the head. 💡

"I want to testify but I want immunity so the illegal stuff I've done is swept under the carpet."

Not suspicious at all.

I suspect that it will go the same way as the Panama Papers: quickly forgotten despite the initial public uproar and regardless of whatever Flynn actually has to say.

 

[Sanji Himura]

PDP's stunt and comments were stupid and in my view the WSJ went a little overboard with regard to them. However JonTron is a different issue, even after his 'retraction' come across as very white supremacist.

Not really, and here's why.

Traditional print and Televised media see the explosion of YouTube as a threat to their ancient, for lack of a better term, methods and delivery. Where one piece of news (for example, Barack Obama made a speech today on trade with China with the Chinese Premier) would be filtered by news editors in traditional media, YouTube would allow anyone with an opinion and a camera to share said opinion without an editor, and become stars in the process.

According to the Pew Research Center, about 4 and 10 Americans get their news from online sources. The rise of online news coverage is a serious threat to traditional media in terms of longevity, and would do anything to discredit it. Well, with PDP and JonTron, they found their "in".

 

[Scaff]

Not really, and here's why.

Traditional print and Televised media see the explosion of YouTube as a threat to their ancient, for lack of a better term, methods and delivery. Where one piece of news (for example, Barack Obama made a speech today on trade with China with the Chinese Premier) would be filtered by news editors in traditional media, YouTube would allow anyone with an opinion and a camera to share said opinion without an editor, and become stars in the process.

According to the Pew Research Center, about 4 and 10 Americans get their news from online sources. The rise of online news coverage is a serious threat to traditional media in terms of longevity, and would do anything to discredit it. Well, with PDP and JonTron, they found their "in".

How does the medium used for delivery stop someone calling for a white America, claiming that rich blacks cause more crime than poor whites, or that slavery was a net benefit for slaves (ditto colonialism) from coming across as very white supremacist?

 

[Pillo-san]

So it seems that Flynn was denied the immunity he asked for.

 

[Sanji Himura]

How does the medium used for delivery stop someone calling for a white America, claiming that rich blacks cause more crime than poor whites, or that slavery was a net benefit for slaves (ditto colonialism) from coming across as very white supremacist?

I'll admit that I did avoid the topic that you were going after. You're right that JonTron and PDP had nothing to do with each other in that regard.

The point that I was trying to make is that the MSM (via the WSJ) is trying to crucify YouTube because anyone with a camera and a personality can become somewhat successful on the medium because YouTube lacks the editorial control that traditional media has. The less editorial control that a news item has = the less perception of a bias that the outlet has. That is why, honestly speaking, I would rather watch a video from MundaneMatt to get my news rather than watch FOX, regardless of the fact that he's a liberal and I am a social and fiscal conservative.

Currently, YouTube has a big legal issue brewing. It was reported by MundaneMatt and others that YouTube may have indirectly financed terrorism with the sharing of ad revenue. That is something that both the advertisers are keeping a very close eye on as well as the big media outlets. That is why they are clamping down hard for advertiser friendly content, and as a result they are catching false positives in the net. The media is seeing this and putting out hit pieces on the YouTuber themselves, which in some cases, is causing sponsors to pull out from the youtuber.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So it seems that Flynn was denied the immunity he asked for.

Which means that he's unlikely to testify, and in turn that whatever he has to say will go unheard.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Which means that he's unlikely to testify, and in turn that whatever he has to say will go unheard.

Let's set the record straight, he wanted assurances that it wouldn't be turned into a witch hunt. As Vanity Fair so pointed out, Flynn may not know where all the bodies are buried, if there are any. For all anyone knows, Flynn is just a rogue element in the Trump government that got caught breaking the law in assuring Russia that they will get better treatment in a Trump administration. That ran counter to official US policy (in both administrations mind you), and he was fired from his position.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

As Vanity Fair so pointed out, Flynn may not know where all the bodies are buried, if there are any. For all anyone knows, Flynn is just a rogue element in the Trump government that got caught breaking the law in assuring Russia that they will get better treatment in a Trump administration.

All I said was that whatever he had to say will most likely go unheard.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I've posted this before, but there are cities that have days that are worse than China in the US. There have already been a couple days this year where Salt Lake City has been worse than Beijing, I'm sure the same can be said about LA, Bakersfield, Pittsburgh, and several other US cities.

I'm not sure what should be done about air pollution in the US, but to think that it's all blue skies and clean air is completely false. Personal responsibility should be the answer, but it's clear many people just don't care.

From what I have read, Salt Lake City is pretty unique, in that it is surrounded by mountains that stop the pollution from blowing away and concentrates it over the region. Prevailing winds in that area come from the West and the Northwest, I would have no problem restricting coal and oil power generation that directly affect that, or any region.

I was in San Bernardino County in the mid 80s. The pollution there was terrible. You could not see more that a quarter mile or so. I asked a local, and he said it was from LA, and that the mountains blocked it and held it there. I am sure the air there is probably cleaner there now, now that cars are a lot cleaner.

I would guess that the Greater Houston region of Texas probably generates more pollution than any other place in America. Pasadena, La Port, Baytown, and many more cities around Galveston bay are loaded with refineries and petrochemical plants. But the sky is always blue where I live (just Southwest of downtown, inside the loop). Houston is on a coastal plain, and our winds usually come from the Northwest, blowing the pollution out over the gulf.

Regional air quality needs to be handled on a regional level. Places upwind of SLC should have strict controls to prevent smog in SLC. But that doesn't mean the whole country should follow those restrictions. Nor should it mean that what a coastal region like mine can do should be a model for the whole country.

Maybe I am just pissed off because I have to buy the same crappy 2.5 gallon per minute shower head as the guy in Las Vegas, when Houston has plenty of water and plenty of energy.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I just tried to watch one of JonTron's videos, it's a neckbeard shouting about video games and I don't know how that can be the most popular thing on YouTube. PewPie seems like the same thing too, although he isn't a neckbeard, just a dude with a really punchable face.

I must be getting old because I don't understand how or why anyone would want to watch this stuff.

Well JonTron is a parody/comedian and to me has always been quite funny. And probably someone who shouldn't have joined up with Sargon of Akkad, the fact that he did is why people are being critical. Pewdie is just an annoying comedian who does more shock and awe comedy than actually saying anything humorous. He's always struck me as a modern day Gallagher without the smashing of watermelons. Also has said known racist things. JonTron as far as I know hasn't just said highly conservative things and anti-sjw. Which gets him hated.

Having a neckbeard is different than being one, just so you know.

How does the medium used for delivery stop someone calling for a white America, claiming that rich blacks cause more crime than poor whites, or that slavery was a net benefit for slaves (ditto colonialism) from coming across as very white supremacist?

When did JonTron call for a white America. As far as I recall, when he went on a podcast with Sargon, he called for there to be recognition of whites and not this attitude that all whites or most white people have the odds in their favor for one, and two that whites should ethnically not have to fear everything they say because of the SJW movement.

Now as someone who isn't white and frankly feels that the issue stems more from class than race, I agree that blacks or people of the same races as me, try to use ethnicity as a cop out. I find it very displeasing and unfair and wrong to those of us who actually work hard and don't use being black or brown or a space monster as a reason for why we face difficulty.

Now if JonTron did say something that is aligned with white supremacist ideals, please show me so I can go and unsubscribe from the guy and no longer give support to a person who clearly only wants one type of color supporting him.

 

[Scaff]

I'll admit that I did avoid the topic that you were going after. You're right that JonTron and PDP had nothing to do with each other in that regard.

The point that I was trying to make is that the MSM (via the WSJ) is trying to crucify YouTube because anyone with a camera and a personality can become somewhat successful on the medium because YouTube lacks the editorial control that traditional media has. The less editorial control that a news item has = the less perception of a bias that the outlet has. That is why, honestly speaking, I would rather watch a video from MundaneMatt to get my news rather than watch FOX, regardless of the fact that he's a liberal and I am a social and fiscal conservative.

Currently, YouTube has a big legal issue brewing. It was reported by MundaneMatt and others that YouTube may have indirectly financed terrorism with the sharing of ad revenue. That is something that both the advertisers are keeping a very close eye on as well as the big media outlets. That is why they are clamping down hard for advertiser friendly content, and as a result they are catching false positives in the net. The media is seeing this and putting out hit pieces on the YouTuber themselves, which in some cases, is causing sponsors to pull out from the youtuber.

I'm not entirely sure I would agree that outlets such as the WSJ see the likes of PDP a rival in that way; I simply think its a story they saw as being one that would drive traffic to them (its not as if the WSJ is absent from YT either).

When did JonTron call for a white America. As far as I recall, when he went on a podcast with Sargon, he called for there to be recognition of whites and not this attitude that all whites or a general idea of white people have the odds in their favor for one, and two that whites should ethnically not have to fear everything they say because of the SJW movement.

Now as someone who isn't white and frankly feels that the issue stems more from class than race, agrees that when blacks or people of the same races as me, tries to use ethnicity as a cop out. I find it very displeasing and unfair and wrong to those of us who actually work hard and don't use being black or brown or a space monster as a reason for why we face difficulty.

Now if JonTron did say something that is aligned with white supremacist ideals, please show me so I can go and unsubscribe from the guy and no longer give support to a person who clearly only wants one type of color supporting him.

He went quite a bit beyond that to be honest, now I have no intention of sitting through that entire video again, however this is a good summary of the 'highlights':

http://gizmodo.com/popular-youtuber-jontron-has-some-*******-crazy-thought-1793231221

The comments on immigrants such as this "“if they assimilated they would enter the gene pool eventually.” (and wasn't positioned as a positive) or his claim that rich Black people commit more crime than poor white ones, that Mexicans are attempting to recapture American land and that white people are going through demographic displacement because of something to do with non-whites.

Its a two hour tirade of nonsense and noise, with the underlying theme of white = good and non-white = bad.

You may not see it as an issue, but for me its a long way from the simple naive stupidity that PDP displayed.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

He went quite a bit beyond that to be honest, now I have no intention of sitting through that entire video again, however this is a good summary of the 'highlights':

http://gizmodo.com/popular-youtuber-jontron-has-some-*******-crazy-thought-1793231221

The comments on immigrants such as this "“if they assimilated they would enter the gene pool eventually.” (and wasn't positioned as a positive) or his claim that rich Black people commit more crime than poor white ones, that Mexicans are attempting to recapture American land and that white people are going through demographic displacement because of something to do with non-whites.

Its a two hour tirade of nonsense and noise, with the underlying theme of white = good and non-white = bad.

You may not see it as an issue, but for me its a long way from the simple naive stupidity that PDP displayed.

Well thanks for highlighting that to me, it does seem to stem pretty deep into crazy from the article. I don't get the comment on Rich black people, unless he's talking about various athletes and music makers/moguls who do various acts of crime while being rich. Even then that's probably such a low percentage to the overall number that it's pretty baseless.

As for Mexican's trying to recapture land, there is a movement and has been for decades (La Raza) with the reconquista ideal and passing on that narrative to a larger crowd. It's about as successful and useful as white supremacist trying to bring back the confederate states. In other words so highly unlikely they're looked at as fringe, trying to make the argument that this movement or diminished one is employing tons of Mexicans is laughable.

I think that in this sense his comments are stemmed from a popular neo-con argument that mexicans are coming to the U.S. to essentially gain back historically what was their land by having children here from illegal parents and basically over time the population of the south west/west will be majority. Thus state laws can be changed and various other things and essentially due to illegal immigration, at some point Mexican's will have taken over a large region based on their population.

To be honest I don't agree with him on much of this and what I do agree on, like stopping illegal immigration, is about where my agreement on politics end with his. Quite sad cause the guy is a entertaining comedian/commentator on various media and gaming. But like the case with many actors, probably shouldn't speak politics cause it only hurts his actual outcome.

 

[Imari]

Makes one wonder how anyone survived the 20th century and how our western economies didn't completely collapse under the burden of caring for the 100''s of millions of people that fell I'll during times when there were little to no environmental regulations.

Read up on history of industry. You'll find it fascinating.

It was reported by MundaneMatt and others that YouTube may have indirectly financed terrorism with the sharing of ad revenue.

That seems like a weird one. If a terrorist puts up a monetised video, does that count as financing terrorism? If so, I'd say that Youtube has absolutely financed terrorism.

On the other hand, so has probably everyone who buys gasoline.

I think if Youtube knew that there were monetised videos where the money was going straight to known terrorist organisations and did nothing about it there could be something there, but even then it feels iffy. It's a video hosting service, that's what they do. Unless Youtube was actually giving money explicitly to terrorist organisations in support of actual terrorism instead of as compensation for services rendered in making and sharing videos, I feel like it shouldn't be a problem.

You may not see it as an issue, but for me its a long way from the simple naive stupidity that PDP displayed.

I'm not sure that PDP is naive or stupid. He's a shock entertainer that attempts to push the line in order to stay relevant and at the top of playlists. Prime modus operandi for those types is to claim innocence when they go too far.

Which means that he personally probably doesn't hold any of those opinions, but on the other hand he is intentionally using them because he knows that they make people freak out and he's hoping that it's just in that sweet spot to get him views but not trouble. Is that better? Meh.

 

[Sanji Himura]

That seems like a weird one. If a terrorist puts up a monetised video, does that count as financing terrorism? If so, I'd say that Youtube has absolutely financed terrorism.

The issue stems from the fact that YouTube thinks that bots are the be all that ends all, and channels that simply discuss newsworthy subjects (such as MundaneMatt) are getting caught in the crossfire. I mean, the site is backed by Google, and it would be pretty easy for them to hire a few people to manually review videos to make sure that newsworthy subjects are not getting caught in the demonetizing net. I mean if the CNN YouTube channel is getting around the net, then there is a very serious issue with how the bots operate.

On the other hand, so has probably everyone who buys gasoline.

You have to play the law of averages. I would start with Snopes and work my way out.

I think if Youtube knew that there were monetised videos where the money was going straight to known terrorist organisations and did nothing about it there could be something there, but even then it feels iffy. It's a video hosting service, that's what they do. Unless Youtube was actually giving money explicitly to terrorist organisations in support of actual terrorism instead of as compensation for services rendered in making and sharing videos, I feel like it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm sure that the money is being funneled through shell companies, but that is the working theory anyway on why the site is cracking down hard.

 

[TenEightyOne]

You have to play the law of averages. I would start with Snopes and work my way out.

Doesn't that law of averages therefore support @Imari's note that anybody who buys gasoline (or petrol, in more civilized countries ) had indirectly supported terrorism at some point? Or were you agreeing with him?

the fact that YouTube thinks that bots are the be all that ends all,

Source? I certainly don't remember them saying that.

 

[Imari]

The issue stems from the fact that YouTube thinks that bots are the be all that ends all, and channels that simply discuss newsworthy subjects (such as MundaneMatt) are getting caught in the crossfire. I mean, the site is backed by Google, and it would be pretty easy for them to hire a few people to manually review videos to make sure that newsworthy subjects are not getting caught in the demonetizing net. I mean if the CNN YouTube channel is getting around the net, then there is a very serious issue with how the bots operate.

I know about Youtube and their ideas of demonetizing videos. That's a whole other kettle of fish. But the whole thing isn't about Youtube funding terrorism, it's about advertisers who have paid good money not wanting their ads associated with "extremist" content. Which seems totally reasonable, in every other venue the advertiser has control over where and how their ad is placed.

So how is this about Youtube funding terrorism?

You have to play the law of averages. I would start with Snopes and work my way out.

What?

I'm sure that the money is being funneled through shell companies, but that is the working theory anyway on why the site is cracking down hard.

Cracking down hard on everyone so that no money gets to terrorists? Does that come with a free tin foil hat?

You'll have to paint a picture for how that's actually beneficial for Youtube. Youtube ideally wants to take down as many videos as it takes to satisfy their advertisers and no more. Losing ad spots on videos that they don't need to is wasted money. Youtube will err on the side of caution, but I seriously doubt that they're cracking down because of any moral imperative. They just want to keep making money, and that involves not pissing off their creators as well. Even if some of them are terrorists.

 

[Dotini]

Oh dear. Say it isn't so.