An idea for the penalty system.

  • Thread starter Duppy Gee
  • 39 comments
  • 1,272 views
47
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
DuppyGee
Hi all. If there is an opportunity for the game to dish out a penalty, it should send a replay of the incident to an odd number of random players. All the cars are identical and numbered. The players then decide who is at fault and get increasing credits on whether they voted on the losing side, the winning side or a unanimous verdict. If a driver gets multiple votes they could be moved into a bad drivers SR until they have proven otherwise. It should clean up the game. Thoughts please.
 
297
United States
United States
I think the premise is a decent idea, opening up more players awareness to bad driving examples, and start conversations that PD could.. review kinda to maybe helped the penalty system.

The only way I can really see implementation would be - penalty is given in game, then once “review and voted” on or whatever, SR would go up or down.

would get very complicated I think, and wouldn’t help your placement in the race (or would it? Tricky)

Id be more intrigued if I received payment for my GT jury duty 8)
 
2,771
England
England
kilesa4568
But you're talking about stewarding after the fact. What good will that do you when you've been punted off a good finish in the last FiA slot of the day? The scariest part of your suggestion is asking random people to judge each incident without knowing how good their own race craft is. Will we be able to appeal decisions that don't go our way?:P

SR is the biggest problem for me. DR goes up to 100k, is a good indicator of skill and offers some separation between players but max SR is only 99 and ridiculously easy to reach (and keep) for almost anyone, which kinda makes safety a superficial afterthought. I suppose it has to be that way to keep the grids as full as possible (which I prefer) but I sometimes question the wisdom of it.
 
195
Germany
Germany
Very good idea.
I imagine it like this: After the race, instead of fiddling with the controller to type curses,
you automatically get to watch 3 short replays (like "highlights") and you have the opportunity to select dirty/clean for each driver.

I think that the very fact that incidents are replayed would raise more awareness of the subject of clean driving.
Of course, this only affects the future rating of drivers, not the actual race, but would be pretty effective to down-vote the dirty bunch.
Way better than a strange automatic system the developer does not care about.
 
2,747
United States
Theresa, Wisconsin
Very good idea.
I imagine it like this: After the race, instead of fiddling with the controller to type curses,
you automatically get to watch 3 short replays (like "highlights") and you have the opportunity to select dirty/clean for each driver.

I think that the very fact that incidents are replayed would raise more awareness of the subject of clean driving.
Of course, this only affects the future rating of drivers, not the actual race, but would be pretty effective to down-vote the dirty bunch.
Way better than a strange automatic system the developer does not care about.

Or even gaining enough dirty votes gets you looked at by someone that has the power to suspend your daily race privileges. The important part is that people start learning what is and is not tolerated.
 
3,834
Australia
Australia
Sounds like a popularity contest

Also most people won't care because they aren't aspiring stewards, so they would find it a chore and that's how you get dummy votes
 
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2,747
United States
Theresa, Wisconsin
Sounds like a popularity contest

Also most people won't care because they aren't aspiring stewards, so they would find it a chore and that's how you get dummy votes

I think most people want fair and clean racing, if this were to help achieve that I think many would spare a few minutes to help out and it can be optional, not a requirement.
 
571
Barbados
Barbados
Random or not, a lot of players are known for the liveries they use. If someone "has it out" for one of those drivers, he or she may vote negatively for that person. But overall still a decent idea.
 
47
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
DuppyGee
Sounds like a popularity contest

Also most people won't care because they aren't aspiring stewards, so they would find it a chore and that's how you get dummy votes

An idea is you get cr for voting, double for being in the majority and double again for a unanimous verdict. Also it could get sent to multiple people and the first 15 or so that vote count. So if you don't want to vote that's fine.

Random or not, a lot of players are known for the liveries they use. If someone "has it out" for one of those drivers, he or she may vote negatively for that person. But overall still a decent idea.

All the cars in the race are replaced with identical and numbered cars so you don't know who is who. You vote on an incident in a race you were not involved in.
 
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2,270
Scotland
Scotland
stpatty
Overwatch has a post-match reputation system where you can vote for players who were good team-mates, good organisers, etc. I don't know how the practicalities of a system like this could work in GT Sport. You couldn't necessarily connect the votes a person receives to their SR - too much potential for abuse. If you set up a system where a certain number of negative votes sent a message to that player then anything could happen - they feel persecuted and stop playing, they decide to play the spoiler deliberately, anything.

If it's done anonymously, unlike Overwatch, then there's a chance of it working. Sport Mode has races of 12, 16 or 20 cars, so say you can vote on 1/4 of the drivers - 3, 4 or 5 per race. There's a chance the post-race chat could have people saying "everyone report ____ plz dirty" but it would vary how much people followed through on that.

A system like this is a good idea in theory, but it would probably only work if every player is explicitly trying to race fairly and as well as they can, and every player is committed to playing the game regularly. Ironically it would be, like the racing and penalty system already is, dependent on all errors and mistakes being honest, and every player constantly committed to improvement. I don't think enough of the playerbase would use the outcome of votes like this in the manner they were intended.
 
1,063
United States
United States
KosmoKazi
Overwatch has a post-match reputation system where you can vote for players who were good team-mates, good organisers, etc. I don't know how the practicalities of a system like this could work in GT Sport. You couldn't necessarily connect the votes a person receives to their SR - too much potential for abuse. If you set up a system where a certain number of negative votes sent a message to that player then anything could happen - they feel persecuted and stop playing, they decide to play the spoiler deliberately, anything.

If it's done anonymously, unlike Overwatch, then there's a chance of it working. Sport Mode has races of 12, 16 or 20 cars, so say you can vote on 1/4 of the drivers - 3, 4 or 5 per race. There's a chance the post-race chat could have people saying "everyone report ____ plz dirty" but it would vary how much people followed through on that.

A system like this is a good idea in theory, but it would probably only work if every player is explicitly trying to race fairly and as well as they can, and every player is committed to playing the game regularly. Ironically it would be, like the racing and penalty system already is, dependent on all errors and mistakes being honest, and every player constantly committed to improvement. I don't think enough of the playerbase would use the outcome of votes like this in the manner they were intended.
What I like about this idea is that it includes a human element into the rating... while not perfect or definitive, what I've also shared before is that ~some~ human influence on the SR would help. Taking into account kudos from competitors, for example, who may want to acknowledge a good sport after a race, or any input where cumulatively, good drivers would be identifiable from the bombers, would be super.
 
47
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
DuppyGee
Thanks for all responses so far. I can understand the system isn't perfect and needs adjustment but it was a base idea to improve gameplay. I don't want anyone banned no matter how they drive but I'd rather battle hard, fair drivers than worry about getting sent to the barrier/sand.
 
461
United States
United States
Could always give Star Players the ability to spectate races and be on site stuards of the race. Just an idea. They could judge whether or not penalties were accessed fairly.
 
777
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The scariest part of your suggestion is asking random people to judge each incident without knowing how good their own race craft is.

This is the problem with it for me. We see on here, people post videos of an incident and some will turn around saying it was a definite divebomb while others will say the door was left open or the were too slow into the corner and invited the move.

It's not a bad idea to put players into a 'naughty' SR grouping but I don't think asking other players is the way to do it. In all honesty I'd rather pay a small monthly fee to go into races that are monitored
 
2,771
England
England
kilesa4568
GT always has license tests to learn game mechanics and physics so why not have a few license tests for safety too? Make them dynamic so that if you have an incident in a race, you can lose one or more of these tiered licenses and will need to retake them to race at the same level again.

A more extensive range of the regular license tests being made much more difficult would be good too. Everything from grass roots to F1 level licenses and make them integral to your safety rating. Some people might get lucky on the safety tests so make both sets of tests complement each other to reach even higher tiers. They could keep the current letter badge but add semi pro, pro and a level that should be in every racing game, alien.

Both my suggestions would probably shrink the grid but that smaller grid would be full of people around my own level safety and it sounds more appealing the longer I consider it... Would you trade a smaller grid for better safety? It would transform sport mode having less unknowns on the grid (a bit more trust for who you're racing) and would make it a lot easier for a player to find their true level with less of a minefield on the way up. All the safety tests could even be a way of jumping over the often inebriated lower ranks so no more minefields.:D

@Ashthebash That was exactly what was on my mind. Scary.
 
1,353
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Positive recognition is the way forward. Too much hate lately.

Scrap time penalties completely. Great idea but it doesn’t work, over 2 years of proof now. Scrap it. It’s also toxic and I don’t like the whole blame culture it’s created.

How about you start the game on 0sr and for every clean race you get 1sr. You get 0sr for a race with any light contact. You get -5 Sr for a race if you hit a car and create a heavy contact. The receiving driver would score 0sr for receiving the contact (to encourage people to watch radar and stop people turning in on others).
Sr runs from 0-100 in stages per 10 so you have 10 groups.
To stop everyone eventually getting to 100sr you “bleed” 0.3sr per race no matter what. So if you heavy contact you decrease faster. If you always cause light contact you slowly decrease. But if you race clean you slowly increase.

edit: also change the credit rewards, heavy contact = no reward, clean race = 5x bonus or something.
 
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17
Germany
Germany
I think one important aspect of OPs idea is the existence of a solid set of constraints leading to dishing out a penalty so everybody will know when he was driving out of the perimeter and therefore was penalised. With the current state of the penalty system and assuming that not everybody is willing to question his behaviour i do not think this could work. Although i would suggest your idea for a regular Penalty system check up at PD to have maybe star players evaluate the pen system the way OP was suggesting .
 
3,834
Australia
Australia
An idea is you get cr for voting, double for being in the majority and double again for a unanimous verdict. Also it could get sent to multiple people and the first 15 or so that vote count. So if you don't want to vote that's fine.

Awarding credits for voting incentivises putting a vote in even if you have no interest in the outcome. So it still facilitates dummy votes.



All the cars in the race are replaced with identical and numbered cars so you don't know who is who. You vote on an incident in a race you were not involved in.

If you were out to get someone, you'd figure it out. Things like track position at the time, or the car they were driving are dead giveaways if you're paying attention.

Your proposal completely ignores lag as well.
 
47
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
DuppyGee
Awarding credits for voting incentivises putting a vote in even if you have no interest in the outcome. So it still facilitates dummy votes.





If you were out to get someone, you'd figure it out. Things like track position at the time, or the car they were driving are dead giveaways if you're paying attention.

Your proposal completely ignores lag as well.

So how would you figure it out if you're not in the race?
 
3,834
Australia
Australia
So how would you figure it out if you're not in the race?

Presumably your suggestion is for the offending incident to be sent to people who just competed in the race though?

Statistically most people playing GT Sport dont use sport mode and if their only racing experience is from GT League I wouldn't want my sportsmanship ranking hinging on their opinion at all.
 
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47
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
DuppyGee
Presumably your suggestion is for the offending incident to be sent to people who just competed in the race though?

Statistically most people playing GT Sport dont use sport mode and if their only racing experience is from GT League I wouldn't want my sportsmanship ranking hinging on their opinion at all.

I've said twice that you wouldn't be in the race. Random drivers vote. So there's no bias.
 
1,353
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
@Duppy Gee your idea is great but as others have said I don’t think you can rely on the general population to police incidents. If we could do that, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

Maybe it would be better to add it to the license tests, and you have to renew you License every 6 months, (to keep it fresh) and you are given video clips of incidents and you have to vote on who was at fault. Set it with bronze silver and gold based on how close to 100% you get.

The game only tells you to “not make yourself look bad” Instead of instructing you “how” to do that.
 
2,747
United States
Theresa, Wisconsin
Positive recognition is the way forward. Too much hate lately.

Scrap time penalties completely. Great idea but it doesn’t work, over 2 years of proof now. Scrap it. It’s also toxic and I don’t like the whole blame culture it’s created.

How about you start the game on 0sr and for every clean race you get 1sr. You get 0sr for a race with any light contact. You get -5 Sr for a race if you hit a car and create a heavy contact. The receiving driver would score 0sr for receiving the contact (to encourage people to watch radar and stop people turning in on others).
Sr runs from 0-100 in stages per 10 so you have 10 groups.
To stop everyone eventually getting to 100sr you “bleed” 0.3sr per race no matter what. So if you heavy contact you decrease faster. If you always cause light contact you slowly decrease. But if you race clean you slowly increase.

edit: also change the credit rewards, heavy contact = no reward, clean race = 5x bonus or something.

I think people can live with time penalties if they cause contact, your idea completely overlooks the fact that Polyphony for some reason cannot make a penalty system that does not blame the innocent. For a long time now the biggest complaints here are that the offender gets away without a penalty or SR down. With your system all of the dirty drivers would be SR S, we had that penalty version a couple of updates ago. Until Polyphony can accurately apportion blame the penalty system will be a failure, many people had good ideas, Polyphony apparently have no interest in fixing the penalty system so they refuse to listen or even debate with players.

Maybe they should have an option where drivers can stay at low SR levels without advancing, there maybe some who want to cause havoc during races, if that's the case match them up together.
 
2,771
England
England
kilesa4568
Starting at the back, I see a lot of incidents that warrant a penalty and a lot that don't but I see way more avoidable penalties than both of them put together.

To me, how people race exacerbates the flaws in the penalty system. It's always ready to chuck a blind penalty at you but people insist on putting it to the test. I know it's bad so I do everything I can not to trigger it.
 
1,353
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I think people can live with time penalties if they cause contact, your idea completely overlooks the fact that Polyphony for some reason cannot make a penalty system that does not blame the innocent. For a long time now the biggest complaints here are that the offender gets away without a penalty or SR down. With your system all of the dirty drivers would be SR S, we had that penalty version a couple of updates ago. Until Polyphony can accurately apportion blame the penalty system will be a failure, many people had good ideas, Polyphony apparently have no interest in fixing the penalty system so they refuse to listen or even debate with players.

Maybe they should have an option where drivers can stay at low SR levels without advancing, there maybe some who want to cause havoc during races, if that's the case match them up together.

No they wouldn't because everyone would "bleed" SR for every race they enter. Therefore forcing drivers to pursue a perfectly clean race.

I do agree the penalty system has never been perfect, hence why I said scrap it completely and move to a stricter SR system. No doubt there will always be "those" drivers who still punt every now and then, but over the long term the cleanest drivers would rise to the top and stay there.
 
144
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The problem is that on the whole, the clean drivers are the only ones that care about SR, and most of the ones that care about DR. The dirty drivers tend to only care about individual race results, so giving them a DR reset just rewards then with easy wins.

The best way to balance this would be with accurate in-race penalties, but that's not happening anytime soon. The other option would be matchmaking by DR only, but with power reductions for lower SR, say 5% reduction for every SR level below S, or 1% for every 5 SR below 99. If this was paired with shared blame, and possibly harsher SR drops, it would be annoying at first for clean racers, but would soon shake out with dirty drivers being rendered uncompetitive because of their dirty driving.