And none of you believed me when I said how awesome Luminas were.

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Got in a car accident last night while riding to one of my high school buddy's house. Totaled the car. Scared the crap out of me, and tinged my back a bit, tough I'm otherwise okay. He got a few bruised ribs and his laptop got wrecked. As soon as I know what they did with the car I'll post pictures of whats left of it.
 
wow. man, at least you're ok!!! if you say you totalled the car then it must hve been a hard hit. whatever happened anyway?

glad you're still with us, tough. Now get a Toronado as a new car (:
 
If it's awesome... how come you came a cropper?

Glad to hear you're okay... post pics when you get them... any more info you can give us about the accident?
 
I'm setting a bad example for you guys. After my accident, I immediately saw someone else get in one. And now you. C'mon man, you should know better. :p

Glad you're ok. 👍
 
musta been one of the last luminas, then (i hear most of em are allready IN the junkyards). the problem is, I slid into a culvert with an A body Celebrity. the only real damage was a tire got popped (and it took a 4 inch piece of the culvert corner off!), but the car was considered totaled because the crossmember got tapped by the culvert :P Basically, ANYTHING can get a car to be considered totaled.

from the sound of it, it was destroyed literally, unlike my case. good luck with the Points your getting.
 
The reason you crashed was probably because you were riding the car.
 
wow you are actually acting your age for once! so what happened? I take it you ran out of talent?
 
Never said the thing wasn't a tank.
It's just a tank with a few design flaws in the areas of "ease of maintenance".
Very glad you're ok.
 
Virtually any damage at all will total a 10-15 year old, plentiful, cheap car. My '92 Caravan, which was gargage kept, owned since new, and only had around 90k on the clock, got totalled in 2002. For the price of replacing the hatch in a rear-ender that wasn't even bad enough to break either taillight or any glass, they wrote the car off.

At any rate, I'm glad to hear you're mostly OK. Pay attention to that back, though - sometimes it takes a few days for the real strain to show up.
 
musta been one of the last luminas, then (i hear most of em are allready IN the junkyards). the problem is, I slid into a culvert with an A body Celebrity. the only real damage was a tire got popped (and it took a 4 inch piece of the culvert corner off!), but the car was considered totaled because the crossmember got tapped by the culvert :P Basically, ANYTHING can get a car to be considered totaled.

from the sound of it, it was destroyed literally, unlike my case. good luck with the Points your getting.

Nah, Luminas are still fairly common here, lots in the junkyard, sure, but then, lots were made.

wow you are actually acting your age for once! so what happened? I take it you ran out of talent?

Now then... Necessary?
 
Good to hear you're okay. Now get in the spare car, Dale Earnhardt.
 
Lumina is the only car I know of that was sold as both a 2-door coupe and a minivan. Renault Avantime I suppose but it was one body.
 
What about the Corvair, which was sold as both a rear-engined compact, a van, and a van/truck hybrid.
 
Glad to hear you're alright, Toronado. Heavy FWD american cars are dangerous; I hope you weren't doing anything dumb like my friends and I were when my parents' Pontiac was totalled.

What about the Corvair, which was sold as both a rear-engined compact, a van, and a van/truck hybrid.
Volkswagen did it first with the Beetle and Type 2.
 
Volkswagen did it first with the Beetle and Type 2.

Technically you could say Ford started it back with the Model T, which was available in roadster, pickup, wagon, panel truck, and a few other variations.
 
Lumina is the only car I know of that was sold as both a 2-door coupe and a minivan. Renault Avantime I suppose but it was one body.

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How's so?
They're FWD and heavy, so obviously they're front-heavy and prone to overload the front tires. They're also shod with cheap tires from the factory and, unless driven by someone who thinks they're driving a sportscar, shod with cheap tires for their whole operational lives. Furthermore, Detroit didn't learn until recently that a car doesn't need to be a sportscar to be tight and controllable, so they have soft, floppy suspensions with little to no shock absorber control, and lack any sort of handling refinement.

The risk of an accident does depend on the driver, but the average largeish FWD american car is a serious liability at any enthusiastic pace. I'm not jumping to the conclusion that Toronado did something dumb. All I'm saying is that if he did, he would have been much better off behind the wheel of something else. The same is true if he had innocently found himself in an emergency avoidance situation.

Technically you could say Ford started it back with the Model T, which was available in roadster, pickup, wagon, panel truck, and a few other variations.
True. All I was pointing out is how the Corvair was an air-cooled rear- and flat-engined coupe that, as you said, was turned into a van, and how the Beetle was an air-cooled rear- and flat-engined coupe that, 11 years before the Corvan, was turned into a van. :)
 
True. All I was pointing out is how the Corvair was an air-cooled rear- and flat-engined coupe that, as you said, was turned into a van, and how the Beetle was an air-cooled rear- and flat-engined coupe that, 11 years before the Corvan, was turned into a van. :)

Haha yeah, of course Chevy was able to improve the design and allow for full size rear cargo doors, and a low floor with side ramp for the pickup version.
 
They're FWD and heavy, so obviously they're front-heavy and prone to overload the front tires. They're also shod with cheap tires from the factory and, unless driven by someone who thinks they're driving a sportscar, shod with cheap tires for their whole operational lives. Furthermore, Detroit didn't learn until recently that a car doesn't need to be a sportscar to be tight and controllable, so they have soft, floppy suspensions with little to no shock absorber control, and lack any sort of handling refinement.

The risk of an accident does depend on the driver, but the average largeish FWD american car is a serious liability at any enthusiastic pace. I'm not jumping to the conclusion that Toronado did something dumb. All I'm saying is that if he did, he would have been much better off behind the wheel of something else. The same is true if he had innocently found himself in an emergency avoidance situation.

So in other words they're not unsafe unless you're driving in a way that is inappropriate for public roads.

But then, if you think about it...

What gets pushed towards the limit more, a big, heavy, softly sprung FWD or something like an Evo?

By virtue of the fact that the sportier vehicle CAN be pushed, it WILL be. The decidedly unsporty pile of garbage that scares you with body roll long before you're actually in danger generally isn't too tempting to go flying around corners in.

So where are you more likely to lose control? At the legal speed limit in a ride-is-the-only-object FWD American land barge, or flying through the same set of corners in something designed to be sporty?
 
niky
any more info you can give us about the accident?
I was riding passenger. We were making a beeline to his house. He had to swerve to miss a deer that decided to plop itself down just on the shoulder on the right side of the road (the corner was semi-blind). He either jerked the wheel to fast or over corrected, but the car just started coming around from the back. The front left wheel suddenly decided to impolitely gain traction while the car was mostly sideways and whee! It was like a motion simulator. Luckily we weren't going that fast (double nickel in a 60 zone), so it only rolled once. I do know where the car ended up, and I'm going to check it out in the sunlight for the first time tomorrow. I'll take some pictures of it then.

He's a couple of years older than me but he didn't get his licence until last year, so I guess it was just driver error. Its a shame, though. I liked that car.


wow you are actually acting your age for once! so what happened? I take it you ran out of talent?
Yes. Because even if I was dumb enough to do some kick ass street racing in the middle of the night on back roads, I would totally pick a 3300 pound boat with 200 HP and a 4 speed slushbox to do it with. I'd street race my Blazer before I would street race a W body car.

Rotary Junkie
What gets pushed towards the limit more, a big, heavy, softly sprung FWD or something like an Evo?
Completely unrelated, but what type of car do you think inexperienced, starting drivers (the kind that regularly get into accidents due to pushing cars past heir limits) are more likely to have?
 
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I was riding passenger...

...Yes. Because even if I was dumb enough to do some kick ass street racing in the middle of the night on back roads, I would totally pick a 3300 pound boat with 200 HP and a 4 speed slushbox to do it with. I'd street race my Blazer before I would street race a W body car.
Ah. Disregard anything I said about you being behind the wheel then. :)


Also, RE: FWD land barges being unsafe...
He had to swerve to miss a deer that decided to plop itself down just on the shoulder on the right side of the road (the corner was semi-blind)...

...Luckily we weren't going that fast (double nickel in a 60 zone), so it only rolled once.
The same is true if he had innocently found himself in an emergency avoidance situation.
He either jerked the wheel to fast or over corrected, but the car just started coming around from the back.
...unless driven by someone who thinks they're driving a sportscar, [they're] shod with cheap tires for their whole operational lives. Furthermore, Detroit didn't learn until recently that a car doesn't need to be a sportscar to be tight and controllable, so they...lack any sort of handling refinement.
The front left wheel suddenly decided to impolitely gain traction while the car was mostly sideways and whee!
They're FWD and heavy, so obviously they're front-heavy...
I rest my case.

What gets pushed towards the limit more, a big, heavy, softly sprung FWD or something like an Evo?

By virtue of the fact that the sportier vehicle CAN be pushed, it WILL be. The decidedly unsporty pile of garbage that scares you with body roll long before you're actually in danger generally isn't too tempting to go flying around corners in.
Completely unrelated, but what type of car do you think inexperienced, starting drivers (the kind that regularly get into accidents due to pushing cars past heir limits) are more likely to have?
Exactly, that's one part of it. I also have seen and have had the unfortunate opportunity to ride with older drivers of heavy FWD sedans that speed everywhere and brake as late as possible. Drivers like those aren't scared of body roll. They just aren't scared.

So where are you more likely to lose control? At the legal speed limit in a ride-is-the-only-object FWD American land barge, or flying through the same set of corners in something designed to be sporty?
I wasn't even talking about sportscars or sporty cars. I would contrast the Lumina with an equally utilitarian but safer-handling car, like a VW or Mazda.
 
im in agreement with wolfe on this one.

by and large, american cars suck at handling, unless they are specificaly designed as a perfomance car.
hence, your little SRT4, focus RS, vette Z06, SRT 10 etc, all can post great numbers.

the only problem with that is that while posting good numbers is commendable, sometimes the ride in aforementinoed cars is a little stiff, transitions a little sudden, on the limit handling a little suspect.

whereas those who have always made sure that handling is a part of the basic package (porsche, mazda, BMW im looking at you) can make cars that not only handle well, but do everything a suspension is designed/ supposed to do, very well.

things are getting better though. albeit a little too late. especially for ford, who have always had sharp handling cars sold in europe, and we were saddled with the last gen focus. ford ran after the easy profits and concentrated almost entirely on trucks, just about neglected the car side of things, and now that trucks are the vehiclular equivalent of the anti christ, ford cant get people to buy thier cars. guess what ford, perhaps you should have sold the "better" cars here starting ten years ago. the american public pays no heed to whats going on in the world. only the enthusiasts know what the ka, fiesta, mondeo, etc are.
 
Man, that sucks... that thing must have really terrible body control for it to catch and bite like that... normally, that only happens to SUVs, nowadays... I mean, a similar thing happened to me in our (extremely softly-sprung) Sentra a few years back, but I got the car back under control... sounds like a very lazy slide ruined by your front left suspension basically positively cambering you into the air. Damn, good thing you're all right. I've been upside down myself... never a fun experience.

How much is insurance giving you for the thing?

Yes. Because even if I was dumb enough to do some kick ass street racing in the middle of the night on back roads, I would totally pick a 3300 pound boat with 200 HP and a 4 speed slushbox to do it with. I'd street race my Blazer before I would street race a W body car.

:lol:
 
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Man, that sucks... that thing must have really terrible body control for it to catch and bite like that... normally, that only happens to SUVs, nowadays...
My parents' Grand Prix -- another W-body, funnily enough -- did the same exact thing when my friend rolled it. Horrendous understeer into corner entry, braking into snap oversteer, and then overcorrection into a 180 spin, through a sign and into the ditch.
 
The level of experience or inexperience far outweighs any inherent "danger" these heavy front-drive cars may have at the limit; I've seen plenty of accidents and crashed-up performance cars; a driver using poor judgment and always exceeding the limits of a car will find a way to crash anything. Education of how different types of cars behave, and understanding of basic physics, along with driver's education in daily and performance scenarios are far more helpful.

A good craftsman doesn't blame his tools for poor workmanship, and a performance car is not a panacea for poor judgment and inexperience.
 
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