Anders Behring Breivik Trial

[terminator363]

I know a thread about the actual massacre exists, but there is nothing on the actual trial. Isn't this sort of important?

 

[disinfected]

I was going to post something about this yesterday when I saw he was claiming self defense.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

he was claiming self defense.

From what? Being splashed by people in the water at Utoya?

I know - he's an Islamophobic ultranationalist who seems to think that he is a part of a covert European resistance faction who have charged themselves with ending the perceived threat posed by Muslims to Norweigan society.

Still, he did decide that the best way to do this was to kill eighty people who were not Muslim.

He's been declared compentent to stand trial, and has admitted to everything he did, even if he does not consider what he did to be a crime. It shouldn't take too much for the Norweigans to decide to lock him up and throw away the key. Let him have a full and miserable life. If anybody deserves it, it's Anders Behring Breivik.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Actually, apparently he's not arguing self-defence. That was a misunderstanding by the court clerk, which has since been corrected. Breivik claims he acted out of "necessity".

I still don't see what was necessary about the deaths of seventy-seven people.

 

[Famine]

lock him up and throw away the key. Let him have a full and miserable life.

Not likely. This is his prison. He's also requested the death penalty rather than the maximum sentence of 21 years.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Norway does not have the death penalty. Right?

He's no doubt expecting and/or angling for an acquittal. To his mind, his crimes were not simply justified, but necessary. He no doubt thinks that he can persuade the jury of this (or that the jury will automatically see it and no persuasion is necessary), and that they will acquit him and probably hail him as national hero, a voice of reason amidst a sea of sanity. He claims that he is a member of the Knights Templar, and apparently offered details of the network in exchange for having a list of demands met, but they were apparently impossible and "included the complete overthrowing of both the Norwegian and European societies". He probably thinks that those demands will be reforms that are quickly introduced when he is acquitted.

 

[DQuaN]

Utterly and completely delusional. I am slightly suprised but at the same time glad that they found him sane as he can now receive the full punishment. (Allthough I think 21 years is a bit short).

He is totally bonkers though.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

There is some contention over his sanity. On psychiatrist said that he was off with the ultranationalist fairies, while another declared him sane. However, Breivik's defence seems to have nothing do with with not guilty by way of mental defect, so it probably won't be a problem.

 

[Famine]

He says he's sane and that declaring him to be insane cheapens his actions.

He's clearly insane, but that special kind where he's so far gone into insanity that he's back out the other side and totally responsible for all of his actions.

 

[Liquid]

All of us probably know at least one or two super-nationalists. But if it gets to the stage where one of them acts on their delusions, then I'm not so sure that all the tools are in the box of said person. He's a complete anchor.

Horrific crimes. No death penalty for him. Luxury prison plus human rights await. I don't think there's a happy medium that can satisfy both parties.

He's getting a lot of lovely media exposure though. Glorifying and immortalising his infamy. This is why I don't really like media being heavily involved in criminal cases, especially those of a magnitude such as this.

 

[Famine]

All of us probably know at least one or two super-nationalists. But if it gets to the stage where one of them acts on their delusions, then I'm not so sure that all the tools are in the box of said person. He's a complete anchor.

His toolbox is full, just with 5/16ths 3/8th sockets. Hundreds of them.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

He's clearly insane, but that special kind where he's so far gone into insanity that he's back out the other side and totally responsible for all of his actions.

He's fishing. He wants an acquittal, because he thinks it will get people thinking about his cause and subconsciously agreeing with it, which he no doubt believes will lead to revolution.

Or he wants an execution, because that will make him a martyr and he thinks it will get people thinking about his cause and subconsciously agreeing with it, which he no doubt believes will lead to revolution.

The best thing that Norway could ever do is simply erase him from the annals of history, as if he never existed. Remember the victims, but never the perpetrator.

 

[Liquid]

His toolbox is full, just with 5/16ths 3/8th sockets. Hundreds of them.

Which reminds me of a time I went abroad on a school trip and one of the lads tried to smuggle knives, screwdrivers and chisels back with him. Astonishing.

 

[Famine]

He's fishing. He wants an acquittal, because he thinks it will get people thinking about his cause and subconsciously agreeing with it, which he no doubt believes will lead to revolution.

I don't think he does.

He wanted to get caught after he'd killed as many as he could manage on Utoya. He then wanted to get his stage so he could air his views/grievances/manifesto. Insanity robs him of that - so he wants to be declared sane. He even said during the trial that he didn't want the five day trial, just an hour to read his speech. None of it's live, of course. But all of it's reported.

If he's acquitted - which is never going to happen - or sent away for 21 years then released, what would he do next? He has nothing after that - he's put on his show and be given a platform to speak from. He wants to die so that he is remembered:

Or he wants an execution, because that will make him a martyr and he thinks it will get people thinking about his cause and subconsciously agreeing with it, which he no doubt believes will lead to revolution.

He is dangerously sane. He's been planning all of this, to the letter, for years. Except the death penalty bit - Norway abolished it years since.

 

[Bram Turismo]

He is dangerously sane. He's been planning all of this, to the letter, for years. Except the death penalty bit - Norway abolished it years since.

This.

There is a documentary on Breivik on YouTube by Discovery Channel, and I'd say everyone who is following the trial to view it. It is simply haunting how long he has been planning this, and in what detail.

The papers have been headlining Breivik for about a full year now, but in our every day lives not much seem to have changed. It was a horrible day, yes, but this event reminded us that every single nation can be hit by such disasters and threats, even the most peaceful ones.

 

[Ibonibo]

Give him what makes him absolutly go bonkers.

Declare him insane and lock him up with crazy people, drug him for the rest of his life.

As a death penalty would flavor him, he should never be allowed to (suicide wise)

My personal choice would be to grant him finally some vacation:
In guantanamo bay. Nice weather there. He would go absolutly bonkers

 

[prisonermonkeys]

He is dangerously sane. He's been planning all of this, to the letter, for years. Except the death penalty bit - Norway abolished it years since.

I never said that he was sane. Only that he was a fanatic.

If he's acquitted - which is never going to happen - or sent away for 21 years then released, what would he do next? He has nothing after that - he's put on his show and be given a platform to speak from. He wants to die so that he is remembered:

I think it's more than that. Being remembered isn't enough for him. Like you said, he planned this out for years. He believes he is the protagonist in a covert armed struggle against a near-omnipotent foe. If he's a believer, a genuine believer - and by all appearances, he most certainly is - having his fifteen minutes won't satisfy him.

He will never be acquitted of his crimes. But to his mind, he will be. He can be. An acquittal is the formal acknowledgement that the accused did not commit any crime. Breivik probably thinks that the justice system is corrupt - he did say that he did not recognise their authority - and that given the choice between execution and acquittal, the jury will choose execution every time. But, on the infinitely slim chance that he is acquitted (again, it's not going to happen, but I'm trying to tackle this from his midset), it would be an endorsement. Breivik's defence is that he acted out of necessity, that the massacre at Utoya was a necessary evil to draw attention to the plight facing the country. He is no doubt hoping that if he is acquitted, if it is acknowledged that no crime was committed, then the people of Norway will ask why and come to the conclusion that Breivik was acquitted because why he did was right. And with this would come the revolution he desires.

And that's why fanatics are dangerous - they're so fanatical. They have that conviction that can lead them to do unspeakable things, and then turn around and say "I was right".

 

[Bram Turismo]

As a death penalty would flavor him, he should never be allowed to (suicide wise)

Don't worry. Norwegians are intelligent people, we don't practice the death penalty over here

 

[sumbrownkid]

Pampering prisoners isn't better than execution.

That guy murdered 77 people.

All they should get is 24 lock down, no priveligious. But in this case, execution would probably on deck if it were not outlawed.

In my opinion, he forfeited his life once he ended those people's lives.

 

[Eiskalter Mick]

deleted.

 

[TankAss95]

He is dangerously sane. He's been planning all of this, to the letter, for years. Except the death penalty bit - Norway abolished it years since.

Absolutely. He said that it took him months of practicing to 'desensitise' himself by using meditation tequniques with repetitive music. Right before he carried out the events, he said that 'there was 100 voices telling him not to go through with it'.

He is sane. He has convinced himself that he is justified for what he has done - he probably thought it was justifiable from the begging. He seriously thinks that he has done right.

 

[Omnis]

Not likely. This is his prison. He's also requested the death penalty rather than the maximum sentence of 21 years.

That's a prison? There has to be a darker side to it than what those photos let on because it seems like better conditions than what I have been living in for the past couple months.

 

[terminator363]

On BBC it quotes that he said that he would repeat all of his actions again if he ever got the chance. So after his 21 years in so-called "jail", is he just going to get people that share his beliefs to kill more people "to protect Norway and Europe from multiculturalism"?

 

[TankAss95]

That's a prison? There has to be a darker side to it than what those photos let on because it seems like better conditions than what I have been living in for the past couple months.

In Oslo people will want to go to jail.

 

[terminator363]

Hell, I want to go to jail.

Edit: In Oslo

 

[Dennisch]

Yesterday, I heard on the news here that he could get 21 years, times 77.
And, that he expected to be killed the day he rampaged.

 

[Phoenix]

That's a prison? There has to be a darker side to it than what those photos let on because it seems like better conditions than what I have been living in for the past couple months.

Uhm yeah, thats the norwegian prisons... Luxery hotels...

In Oslo people will want to go to jail.

This is somewhat true too.

Poor people who don't have jobs or a house to live in and are forced to live on the streets sometimes do crimes like theft, etc to get a place to live and some food and water.
Crazy, I know...

Hopefully he gets lifetime, in a dark whole... They only need to build one first.

 

[Omnis]

Nice prison library there. Be sure to check out Chicken Soup for the White-Collar Criminal.

 

[TankAss95]

Wake up in your cell with en-suite bathroom.
Watch a little telly with your flat screen.
Go get full cooked breakfast.
Go to reading club.
Go to welding class.
Have lunch.
Go to climbing wall.
Have cooking lessons.
Have a training session with your coach.
Have proper dinner.
Go to bed.

Isn't jail great, huh?

 

[Omnis]

Prison: fully cocked breakfasts.

This Anders guy I guess wants to martyr himself. It's kind of a weird predicament. Can they extradite prisoners if their system is too soft?