Annoying!! :|

[alcaeus]

There a few things that just piss me off in GT4, a couple of the things are:


Running Starts- Basically it's when you start off going at a certain speed (In Seattle for example) but then first place starts accelerating and you're still going at 50 or 60 or whatever! Now I looked for "qualify" and the closest thing is Practice...wtf...you start off almost a whole lap behind first place. Are you supposed to come back to first A.S.A.P or something?!

5 Second Penalites- They don't piss me off AS much now, because I usually kill the people I'm racing, but still. The car i was in front of hit me real hard in the back (I forgot to pause it) and he went around me real fast, while I was sent into a wall, getting the 5 second penality... plus they're very unbalanced on how it's activated. You could be going at like 130 and hit the wall, you don't get it, but when you're going at 30 somethin' and just barely knick the wall it delivers. I mean, yeah, it's supposed to be a challenge and teach us not to just run into walls, but at least do something to the A.I. for that too!

Tire Wear- This can be easily avoided by using super-hard tires or whatever, but it seems like when the back tires JUST turn orange, they start becoming crap. Stupid I know, but it ALWAYS seems like it happens at the very last lap. Plus one time I had super-hard tires and I was getting rather red, but I kept it in control sort of, until I spun out but the A.I. was handling it perfectly (they had not taken a pit stop either....is there anything durable than super-hard tires?)!

Turbo Cars- I was in a manufacture race only and I had souped-up this car as much as I could, but first place was still like, 2x as fast. It was the same car as me, I checked after the race. I didn't spin out or screw up, he was just WAY faster. I had nos and I still couldn't catch up to him.

Does anyone else hate these particular problems?

 

[Duke]

There a few things that just piss me off in GT4, a couple of the things are:


Running Starts- Basically it's when you start off going at a certain speed (In Seattle for example) but then first place starts accelerating and you're still going at 50 or 60 or whatever! Now I looked for "qualify" and the closest thing is Practice...wtf...you start off almost a whole lap behind first place. Are you supposed to come back to first A.S.A.P or something?!

Technically you're not supposed to get the green flag until you cross the start line, but this is quite possibly the least-enforced rule in all of racing. GT4 just enforces it. That doesn't bother me - what bothers me is that the clock on your lap starts running when the first car crosses the start line.

Practice = qualifying. It's precisely the way it was in GT3. The first lap is a warmup; the second one is on the clock. Stay out until you're satisfied with your starting position. I never qualify; I like drivingt through traffic.

5 Second Penalites- They don't piss me off AS much now, because I usually kill the people I'm racing, but still. The car i was in front of hit me real hard in the back (I forgot to pause it) and he went around me real fast, while I was sent into a wall, getting the 5 second penality... plus they're very unbalanced on how it's activated. You could be going at like 130 and hit the wall, you don't get it, but when you're going at 30 somethin' and just barely knick the wall it delivers. I mean, yeah, it's supposed to be a challenge and teach us not to just run into walls, but at least do something to the A.I. for that too!

Do a search for 'penalty', thread titles only, GT4 forum. You'll see what people think.

Tire Wear- This can be easily avoided by using super-hard tires or whatever, but it seems like when the back tires JUST turn orange, they start becoming crap. Stupid I know, but it ALWAYS seems like it happens at the very last lap. Plus one time I had super-hard tires and I was getting rather red, but I kept it in control sort of, until I spun out but the A.I. was handling it perfectly (they had not taken a pit stop either....is there anything durable than super-hard tires?)!

Tire wear is great - it teaches you to drive smoothly to avoid overcooking the rubber. A byproduct of smoothness is way faster lap times. All my fastest laps have been set while trying to manage tire wear gently.

Turbo Cars- I was in a manufacture race only and I had souped-up this car as much as I could, but first place was still like, 2x as fast. It was the same car as me, I checked after the race. I didn't spin out or screw up, he was just WAY faster. I had nos and I still couldn't catch up to him.

By suped up, do you mean just power? Or did you also do transmission and suspension modifications? 3-plate clutch and racing flywheel can really wake up a cars acceleration and speed up the shifts.

 

[alcaeus]

So to avoid tire wear, do you have to slow down around turns? And yes, I actually did everything (suspension, etc) I could to it.

 

[Duke]

So to avoid tire wear, do you have to slow down around turns?

Well, ummm, yeah! Don't overdrive the car. Slow down, brake early, and be on the throttle through most of the turn. Avoid locking up the front wheels under braking, and spinning the rears under acceleration. Strive for smoothness, not 'point and squirt' leapfrogging from corner to corner. Maintain momentum rather than dropping the anchor, negotiating the turn, then blasting down the next straight.

And yes, I actually did everything (suspension, etc) I could to it.

Perhaps your newfound smoothness will help here.

How are you on your license tests?

 

[Scaff]

I quite agree with all that Duke has said, but would just add in regard to the tyre life for the AI cars, they tend to drive very conservativly, and this is going to result in longer tyre life.

So to avoid tire wear, do you have to slow down around turns? And yes, I actually did everything (suspension, etc) I could to it.

Not always, you need to ensure that you are controlling the throttle well, wheel spin is a major factor in tyre wear and if you are just ragging the car to the rev limiter and spinning up the tyre then you are going to seriously shorten there life.

Ok you have fitted all the mods, but have you actually taken the time to set the car up well. You can't just slap on racing suspension and gearbox and expect it to be 'right' straight out of the box. Spending time with the cars set-up will result in a quicker car, that is more controlable and better on the tyres.

Just changes in the cars set-up, if made correctly, can cut seconds off a lap time, and thats without any power or weight mods.

Regards

Scaff

 

[alcaeus]

@Duke- Well on my licenses I've got ALOT of bronzes, mainly because I hate license tests and just wanted to race.
@Scaff- Well thing is, I have no clue what the things do, and the description at the bottom just complicates everything by using all this mechanic lingo which I have no clue of. They shouldn't put scrolling text, because I can't comprehend to things scrolling fastly, and even pressing L3 to stop the text doesn't help, because I want to review all of it at one time. So yeah, if you know a particular site or if you are willing to explain, that elaborates on what each suspension effect, downforce, etc does, and how it effects the car, that'd be great!

@both of you- Thanks alot!

(Yeah I'm pretty sure everyone hates the 5 second penality ^_^; )

 

[Duke]

I will also say that the AI use traction control, and as Scaff says, drive fairly perfectly regarding throttle control and threshold braking. All you have to observe are a few standing-start launches where the tree drops and the AI zoom away like a ball bearing out of a slingshot, while you nurse the throttle trying to get the car to hook up and dig out.

That does wonders for their tire life.

@Duke- Well on my licenses I've got ALOT of bronzes, mainly because I hate license tests and just wanted to race.

Well, the license tests are dull, but they are actually a driver's school in disguise. The lessons aren't perfect for real life, but they do teach you how GT4 expects you to manage control inputs.

I would say go back and spend some time trying for silver or better on the A and B licenses, preferably gold. You'll come out the other side with a much better touch on the controls.

Speaking of controls, what setup do you use? I find at a minimum, you need to use both analog sticks - braking and gas are too hard to use smoothly with the buttons. On the other hand, GT4 is very intolerant of harsh control inputs, so I found that a wheel and pedals (with a nice solid mounting place) are almost a requirement.

@Scaff- Well thing is, I have no clue what the things do. So yeah, if you know a particular site or if you are willing to explain, that elaborates on what each suspension effect, downforce, etc does, and how it effects the car, that'd be great!

Look at Scaff's guide on the GT4 Settings board - it's stickied at the top. It's highly detailed and easy to understand.

@both of you- Thanks alot!

That's why we're here. 👍

 

[alcaeus]

Hehe yeah. I never saw traction control O.o if I did it wasn't available for my car...

 

[Duke]

Traction control (TCS) and Active Stability (ASM) are turned on for all cars by default. You need to turn them off for every car when you drive it the first time (for GT Mode cars). In the Settings screen, they are under "Driving Aids".

Always turn both ASMs (oversteer and understeer) to zero, for every car, every time. They really interfere with your understanding of how the car is responding to your control inputs, and they are often counterproductive.

TCS is a little less intrusive, but I still prefer to keep it at zero. If you really have trouble controlling wheelspin, try a setting of 1. But too much TCS will really slow you down by cutting power to the sheels to keep traction.

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff- Well thing is, I have no clue what the things do, and the description at the bottom just complicates everything by using all this mechanic lingo which I have no clue of. They shouldn't put scrolling text, because I can't comprehend to things scrolling fastly, and even pressing L3 to stop the text doesn't help, because I want to review all of it at one time. So yeah, if you know a particular site or if you are willing to explain, that elaborates on what each suspension effect, downforce, etc does, and how it effects the car, that'd be great!

@both of you- Thanks alot!

(Yeah I'm pretty sure everyone hates the 5 second penality ^_^; )

Right here's what you do to get to grips with the set-up side of things.

Click on the link below and then download the two GT4 tuning guides I put together. Read the first one and then try out the 'Example of a tune' at the end, then pick up the second one and repeat the process.

GT4 Tuning Guides

They are in a .pdf format, full of detail (70+ pages in total) and lots of pictures to help out.

As long as you take the time to read them and practice I can promise it will make you faster. If you have any questions regarding them or set-ups then just post in the thread you downloaded them from.

(but please read at least the first one before you ask anything)

👍

Scaff

 

[Famine]

Speaking of controls, what setup do you use? I find at a minimum, you need to use both analog sticks - braking and gas are too hard to use smoothly with the buttons.

Pah, I say! Pah!

 

[Scaff]

Pah, I say! Pah!

Yes, but everyone knows that you have uber-sensitive wierdy fingers with a sensitivity beyond normal mortals.

Wheel and pedal set-ups are great for all us ham-fisted drivers.



Scaff

 

[Duke]

Allow me to correct myself: too hard for me to use smootly with the buttons. There are people faster than I who still use the D-pad, fercryinoutloud. I just find the range of motion too small on the proportional buttons to work for me.

 

[ÄŁPĨЙΣ]

the 3 things that piss me off most in GT4 are the 5 second penalty, your car spinning on super speedway in B-Spec mode & Suzuka Circuit!

 

[Scaff]

the 3 things that piss me off most in GT4 are the 5 second penalty

Then either avoid the walls or if you are feeling a bit cheep then just ensure that only the rear of the car hits the walls. You get a penalty in most cases only when the front of your car makes contact with the wall.

A number of people have used thsi to great effect on the Ice race, also as Duke pointed out a number of posts ago, this subject already has a huge number of threads dedicated to it.

your car spinning on super speedway in B-Spec mode & Suzuka Circuit!

B-spec is limited at best in his ability, in most cases the best option is simply to drive yourself. Also watch how hard you push him, particularly if the tyres are worn. Setting him to 5 is often a sure way to get him to spin.

Regards

Scaff

 

[alcaeus]

I use analog. I just can't deal with the buttons. I used to use the buttons on gran turismo when I was younger (especially gran turismo 1) because I was terrible at the analog sticks. But yeah I'll look at that tuning guide! And I love my B-spec driver. He's excellent. I usually use 4, overtake, and it rarely fails. I also read that the more you b-spec the better he gets. So i put him on test course b-spec and let that happen for 200 laps. That worked.

 

[Master_Yoda]

Talk about getting gang banged by Mods

Slow in, and then just gradually accelerate, but still stay in front of the other cars, will help you on tire wear.

 

[Chojo]

Speaking of B-Spec... will bob get better if you just go to some circuit, select "Practice... 5 Cr." and leave him on forever? Or do you needa actually race?

 

[Sharky.]

On the topic of tyre wear, I was mucking about in arcade mode, doing 10-odd lap races in Group C racers. I did 11 laps at Test Course, on R2's (the AI was too, it always uses the same tyres as you), in the GT-One.

I could go about 5-6 laps before needing to pit for new rear tyres, so did 4 of the AI cars.

Somehow, the AI-driven Audi R8 went the whole distance on no pit stops. :|

 

[daan]

Somehow, the AI-driven Audi R8 went the whole distance on no pit stops. :|

The AI has perfect traction control. It knows exactly how much throttle to give.

 

[Sharky.]

The AI has perfect traction control. It knows exactly how much throttle to give.

That still doesn't really account for the fact that the other 4 AI driven cars pitted when I did though

 

[alcaeus]

I despise the Audi R8 race car! I had a tough competition with that thing! I won 74 to like 73 Whew.

 

[Tornado]

On the topic of tyre wear, I was mucking about in arcade mode, doing 10-odd lap races in Group C racers. I did 11 laps at Test Course, on R2's (the AI was too, it always uses the same tyres as you), in the GT-One.

Their are 3 reasons for that (there would be more if I knew what the other cars were).

1. The TS020 was notorious in real life for it's tire life.
2. It was an LM-GTP car, which specifies different rule sets for tires than the LMP900/LMP1 Audi (this doesn't explain why the Bentley is not the same way against the Audi).
3. The Audi is poorly balanced in the game, as are the Pescarolos.

A.I. was handling it perfectly (they had not taken a pit stop either....is there anything durable than super-hard tires?)!

Their perfect throttle and handling control is also a curse, becuase they will spin out if their rears go completely because of the way they are programmed (ie. when the rears come around they hit the brakes).

 

[Dude?]

The 5-sec. penalties were really annoying for me as well - when I first started GT4. Like in one of the previous posts, it does help ALOT to go back to the license tests and aim for gold (because even if you don't get gold right away, you should still be able to get silver in the process.) I first got the game, and despite transferring my licenses from GT3 I still did the A & B license tests (mainly to get the prize cars) and settled for bronze, but still got silver on some of them thanks to some experience in (the more difficult IMO) GT3. Then, for a challenge I went back to silver all of them. Then I went back to racing. Then I went back to gold all of them. Left to do some more racing. And most recently, I've even golded all of the coffee breaks. It's really amazing to see what persistence/determination can do for you.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Practice = qualifying. It's precisely the way it was in GT3. The first lap is a warmup; the second one is on the clock. Stay out until you're satisfied with your starting position.

Except that in GT4 the only times you can practice/qualify is for championship events.

Personally, I not only preferred the option to qualify for EVERY race, but with short races and running starts, without the opportunity to qualify the GT4 unfortunately encourage players to use far superior cars to the opponents instead of encouraging them to use evenly matched cars. 👎

I do agree with you however, that it is more fun to start a race from the back and work through the traffic, but only when the races take at least 10 min to finish, otherwise it just means I am using a car and set-up far superior to the AI cars, and there isn't any challenge in that.

 

[DQuaN]

Turbo Cars- I was in a manufacture race only and I had souped-up this car as much as I could, but first place was still like, 2x as fast. It was the same car as me, I checked after the race. I didn't spin out or screw up, he was just WAY faster. I had nos and I still couldn't catch up to him.

Does anyone else hate these particular problems?

Are you talking about the Opel Speedster race? If so, this is a very difficult race (possibly due to a bug). Stick a wing on the car and keep trying.

 

[fulcrumdriver]

I hate the lineups on most of the races. Typically you race against 4 other cars with around the same performance, and a fifth that's 4 seconds ahead of the pack on the first lap. For example the shelby cobra or pontiac(?) special. Since the only goal in this game is to get first place, it takes a lot of the fun out of it because you're unable to race your car modified, or you are severely limited in the number of viable cars you can race. Either way there won't be any fun competition with those 4 'slow' cars when you do have the right vehicle. Same goes for pitting groupC/canam racers against lmps. The Toyota7 is one of the most aggravating opponents in the game.

Lineup part 2: no way to race historically. I wanted to try an older celica I'd seen on the street the other day. It put me up against a late model supra. With such a long list of cars, and all of the older models, it leaves me scratching my head why they didn't have some way to pit these cars by year.

Lineup part 3: The absence of race series (not enduros) for GT300, some of the tiny cup cars and the 5 or 6 "touring cars" you can't race in DTM. What's the point of designing custmized cars like the FTO, impreza, mazda6, etc. without including a place ot race them at?

That's pretty much it for me at this point. Most of the aforementioned problems disappear with experience, although qualifying at the nurb is annnoying.

 

[Duke]

I hate the lineups on most of the races. Typically you race against 4 other cars with around the same performance, and a fifth that's 4 seconds ahead of the pack on the first lap.

I agree; this is really a problem. And with load times as they are, I hate re-entering races many times in a row just to get a decent lineup (particularly since that costs you a game day even if you never set a tire on the track).

Lineup part 2: no way to race historically. With such a long list of cars, and all of the older models, it leaves me scratching my head why they didn't have some way to pit these cars by year.

Agreed - and why have a 'Spitfires Only' race (in which the prize car is a Spitfire - yet ANOTHER peeve), when a series that set all the small-bore older sports cars against each other would be more fun and bring more to the game?

As it is, I get the most enjoyment out of some of the one-makes, such as the Speedster cup, because in some of these series the 'Rabbit' effect is reduced and the field is more evenly matched.

Lineup part 3: The absence of race series (not enduros) for GT300, some of the tiny cup cars and the 5 or 6 "touring cars" you can't race in DTM. What's the point of designing custmized cars like the FTO, impreza, mazda6, etc. without including a place ot race them?

Really agreed. My favorite type of racing is amateur club racing such as SCCA Showroom Stock. I really prefer racing with cars that are as close to stock as possible, with limited race prep like a cage and some suspension work. I'd love to see a number of race series for the little race-prepped momentum cars and the mid-powered doorslammers like the GT300s. Imagine a series putting the Lupo Cup cars against the little March racers? It would be a hoot.

My second favorite type of racing is the Touring series, and I'd love to see more of those as well in the game. The farther you get away from 'real' cars, the less interested I am in the racing.

 

[escher]

The farther you get away from 'real' cars, the less interested I am in the racing.

Dead on the money.

I know there are people who just want to fly around the track at 300mph, but personally, I enjoy taking a car in stock form and seeing what I can make it do.

 

[Luca]

Having played Forza extensively before selling my Xbox and getting a PS2 as a replacement, I can say there are a lot of things that Forza did right that GT4 does wrong. I prefer the actual driving feel in GT4. The cars feel more weighty and they all feel a little different... in Forza, any car with the same drivetrain, power, and weight tends to feel exactly the same.

But as for the way races and cars are set up and organized, Forza really had it down. There are a lot of races with tighter restrictions in Forza - some require your car to be totally stock, others require it to be under a certain horsepower rating, and there are class-specific ones too. Upgrading your car's parts increase the class rating (which is based on power, weight, and grip), so you can always get a general sense of how one car stacks up against another. You can see who your opponents will be before you enter a race, so you can go for overkill or you can make your car match the best opponent you'll be up against for a more balanced race.

Overall I still like GT4 better, but there are some aspects of it that just don't make much sense to me. Especially when I was starting out, I felt like I had to go for complete overkill to win races, and I still feel like I have to do that to some extent. I usually either win or lose by a very large margin in GT4. In Forza I often won by just a tiny bit, or I might lose by a tiny bit but win after another couple tries. But in GT4 it's usually apparent after half a lap whether I'll be able to win the race at all or not.

So yeah, I kind of wish there were more restrictions some of the races in GT4. It would make it so you can't just automatically win by upgrading your Skyline to the max, because maxing out a car might prevent you from even qualifying for it.