Another car buying thread

[Philly]

I don't know where reliability stands on your list, but there are a few cars that I can think of that would make great kid cars for around $20k.

Volkswagen GTI MKV

I have one. It's a fantastic car. A great place for a kid with some money to start. It has all the practicality in the world while having a nice balance of performance that'll allow him to have plenty of fun without getting into too much trouble. The drawback is that reliability is less than stellar. 2007s with 40,000 to 50,000 can be had for $16k plus.

MINI Cooper (S)

These are still popular cars. And they're pretty amazing. It has the practicality of a hatchback and some performance that'll put some great smiles on his face. Definitely a very sweet ride. Plus, chicks dig them.

E46 BMW 3-Series

Definitely a very solid car. They are very nice, quick and drive very well. Only thing is it's a BMW so maintenance will be a little pricey.

Mazda 3

Great little car. You just can't go wrong with one. I think it should be on everybody's list. It has everything you want out of an economy car in a nice, sporty package.

2002-2007 Subaru WRX

The kid-est kid car of them all. It performs well and is pretty decently reliable. It comes both as a sedan and a wagon and both are plenty sporty. There is plenty of aftermarket and community around these things too. Insurance is pretty steep though.

What are you saying? Your family doesn't crash? I think it tells a lot of you that a) you're going to be putting your kid in an 18k sportscar (he's male, he wants something fast I'm sure) and b) "Safety isn't a concern, I've taught him well".

I laugh at the kids whose daddy buys them $20k cars for their sixteenth. Most think it makes them a badass. I know a guy who got a brand new 2006 GTO when he turned sixteen, but he's a rare breed that doesn't have to brag about it. How about you spend $8k on his first car, and when he wrecks it spend the other $10k?

My family bought me (and the family) a $20k car when I got my license. I have similar rules to what the OP is giving his son. The thought of being on my own for everything if I wreck the GTI (or even get a ticket) alone is enough to scare me into doing my best to drive responsibly and safely. As a result, I have yet to have any major trouble in it.

Also, I don't know about most people, but for me, driving a car that the family bought is kinda embarrassing. Between me being shy and the number of kids who would just say "yeah, well I don't get everything handed to me," I don't try to flaunt it that much.

 

[Zenith]

To the OP - your criteria are so broad that we can suggest cars forever and probably still wouldn't pick something that your son would actually want. If you've got 18k to burn, why not take him around a load of dealerships and look at cars? Once he's picked a narrowed-down selection, then is the time to start asking people which car he should get, as maybe someone on here will have experience with a certain model.

Understood.
-Favored countries: Germany, older USA, Britain. Japan is acceptable
-Nothing older than 1975. Just doesn't interest him, plus we already have enough classics in the fam
-sporty hatchbacks interest him especially (GTI is one of his current favorites, I'm liking the idea of tuning an older Golf)
-Wants just a tad bit of "testosterone" (Marauder and 350Z were great ideas, despite the image that a marauder and CV are cursed with) Aggressive styling and a hearty sound are major pluses
-Doesn't want a Scion; too many around where we live and most of them are ricer fodder

Better?

To Eric:
You know I'm not suggesting some gene based driving superiority.
You know that when I say "safety isn't a concern" that I'm not looking for a car with a spike driven through the steering wheel and no airbags

I perfectly understand and respect your opinion, but just because you're anonymous over the internet doesn't make you look any better when you insult someone you don't know.

To all:
And yes I KNOW that highschool these days is a walk in the park (pssst: I'm a Calculus teacher)
So strange giving out so much information about myself over the internet

 

[homeforsummer]

Thanks for the slightly more specific criteria 👍

I'll just throw this one in there as I'm sure you can get a very nice one well under budget:

BMW Z3 2.8/3.0. Rear-drive, looks great, pretty quick, sounds good, comes from one of the "favoured countries" you mention, should be pretty reliable. Minuses are perhaps a slightly girly image (I don't know how Z3s are perceived over there), and relatively expensive servicing. And it's not a hatchback, if that really is an area he's interested in. On that budget, you might even be able to stretch to a Z4. Less snappy than something like a Honda S2000, which would also be in budget.

Philly's suggestion of a 3-Series was pretty good too, as of course was the GTI. I'd also be tempted to throw one of the six-cylinder Golfs or Jettas onto the list for something with a bit of pace and good comfort.

Other than that, I'm out. I can't really advocate choosing something with too much performance for someone with so little experience. That's your call, not mine.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Impossible to find one, but that reminds me... Z3 Coupe.

 

[Eric.]

Okay, so Germany, USA, and Japan pretty much covers anything but Hyundai or Kia for the US. An alternative for the RSX would be a 2006+ Civic Si. Pretty comparable to the GTI, but likely to be more reliable and less to repair. Good aftermarket, though horsepower costs more than it will for any turbo car. I regularly get 30mpg. And after 2007 they made the sedan available in Si trim, in case he cares about a little sleeper effect (or just likes sport sedans - I prefer the sedan style over the coupe).

And Philly, no offense to you about getting a $20k car. I don't see you being the "HEY EVERYONE LOOK WHAT MY DAD BOUGHT ME FOR MY BIRTHDAY!!!11" type. And like you said, it wasn't just your car either.

 

[JCE]

Good saloon cars:

2003 Saab 9-3 55k miles $8,500

2002 Nissan Maxima SE 82k miles $9,998

2002 Lincoln LS 70k miles $8,989

Good other cars:

2003 Toyota Celica GT 61k miles $10,999

2003 Mazda Protege' 63k miles $6,982

1999 Honda Prelude 139k miles $5,991

 

[YSSMAN]

-sporty hatchbacks interest him especially (GTI is one of his current favorites, I'm liking the idea of tuning an older Golf)

Pro Tip: If you're looking at the more affordable and generally more reliable MKIV Golfs and Jettas, make sure you go 2003+ if you opt for the 1.8T models. Personally speaking, I'd take the turbo over the VR6 mainly because of the minimal performance differences and the overall savings at the pump. Very small, simple modifications can greatly increase the performance of a 2003+ 1.8T (intake, exhaust and boost controller can really crank up the power).

-Wants just a tad bit of "testosterone" (Marauder and 350Z were great ideas, despite the image that a marauder and CV are cursed with) Aggressive styling and a hearty sound are major pluses

The Marauder doesn't look or sound aggressive? Whaaat? Must be a Cali thing...

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Actually, Brad, I'm quite sure the 2001 MY and 2002+ MY are effectively the same aside from 30hp from the factory due to ECU tuning and boost level differences when it comes to the 1.8Ts.

Then you throw a chip at one and you're looking at nearly 200hp at the wheels rather than at the crank.

 

[Kylehnat]

-junk car sold for about 7,000 (YIPEE!!!)

You and I must have differing opinions on what constitutes "junk".

 

[socomplayer2]

-sporty hatchbacks interest him especially (GTI is one of his current favorites, I'm liking the idea of tuning an older Golf)

I second phillys suggestion. I too own a MK5 gti (my first car) and it is a wonderful car that hasn't ever left me hanging. Its quick, handles great, can be had for around 16k, comes with the great vw community who are mainly anti-rice and have good taste in mods and has a wide variety of parts. Don't care what anyone says, this car will treat you right as long as you treat it right. Even the older models mike the MK3 and MK4 (12/24v VR6) are good cars that are a lot of fun and let out a noise that is nothing less than orgasmic. I don't know your son and don't know what hes into but the gti (any year) can be a great deal of fun and has endless amounts of parts and a great brotherhood. I know I am a fan boy but I just say let him try out a few different models so he can see which one suits him the best.👍

 

[Keef]

Good saloon cars:

2003 Saab 9-3 55k miles $8,500

Oh dear god, I would never recommend that time bomb to my worst enemy. Avoid these at all cost unless you want to pay dearly for turbo maintenance, repairs, replacement, whatever. Probably one of the most unreliable engines ever.

 

[E38]

What about a 2005(ish) BMW Z4 3.0i?

Pro
Good performance and handling - Safe on the streets, fun for track days
Two seats means only one passenger; less peer pressure
Reliable if well maintained
Good availability of parts/performance options
Small, easy to park and maneuver

Con
BMW comes with its own image (could be good or bad)
Maintenance will be higher than a Civic or equivalent econo-box (unless you can do the work yourself)

 

[YSSMAN]

Actually, Brad, I'm quite sure the 2001 MY and 2002+ MY are effectively the same aside from 30hp from the factory due to ECU tuning and boost level differences when it comes to the 1.8Ts.

True, they are essentially the same, but as I recall it was the 2003+ cars that had the sludge issue addressed, and as I recall, are generally more reliable. Its not end-of-the-world bad before then, but it won't make your wallet happy when the thing goes kaput. Seeing as how it would be a Volkswagen, its going to go kaput fairly frequently.


Plus, you can get a well kept 2003+ model for not much more than the older models. With the power boost and so on, arguably, there is little reason not to spend the extra money.

 

[CDailey]

why do people think the marauder is a cop car? As far as I know it wasn't widely used as a cop car, or even at all.

Because, at least where I grew up, the Marauder was used as an undercover/pursuit car. I'm sure other police departments did the same. And anyone who doesn't know better will GTFO of your way when they see any car resembling a Crown Vic.

 

[Zenith]

Settled!
60,000 miles for $14,500

(not actual car but same looks)
Will probably get a new set of spoked rims later on

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Good choice.

 

[socomplayer2]

COPY CAT!👍
Your son has made an awesome choice! I have owned that car for 2 years now and its my true first love (ask my gf she already knows lol). Got me into the VW scene and had loads of fun in it! You or your son can ask me (or Philly) any questions about it and I will be more than happy to answer. Its a great car with a lot of potential.👍 Just be safe and and make sure he treats her like a good woman.
I advise you and your son to check out vwvortex.com. It is a great VW message board and has lot of helpful info (some not so much lol) and lots of inspirational treads of great cars.

temporary wheels

Getting into some trouble. Make sure your son drives slow, but I am sure hes smart.
I may or may not have lost my license from having too much fun.

BTW: I am truly sorry I just photo whored your thread with my car. Good luck and you can your son will enjoy this car!👍

 

[Azuremen]

Well, fail on individuality and reliability, but certainly will be hard to get into much trouble with it as it will just spin a tire 90% of the time rather than go anywhere.

 

[socomplayer2]

Well, fail on individuality and reliability, but certainly will be hard to get into much trouble with it as it will just spin a tire 90% of the time rather than go anywhere.

Its obviously is a good car for a reason if a lot of people to have one . About the reliability, I haven't had any problems with it ever, neither have my 4 VW buddies who have them (lol @ individuality). Only time I ever had a problem with was because I broke something on it and I payed the price, even though it was covered by warranty 👍

Yea, it will spin through second gear if you want it too. But it has an some sort of center locking diff, which means BOTH wheels spin unlike older models. Despite that with a little practice it will launch like a champ and has little turbo lag if you do it right. Off the line it is actually pretty good. I actually got into some trouble with it in the past and have beat a bug eye wrx 2 out of 3 pulls. Just wanted to clear that up. Don't bash a car if you don't know much about it. It didn't win all those car of year awards for nothing.

example of decent launch

 

[Azuremen]

Yea, it will spin through second gear if you want it too. But it has an some sort of center locking diff, which means BOTH wheels spin unlike older models. Despite that with a little practice it will launch like a champ and has little turbo lag if you do it right. Off the line it is actually pretty good. I actually got into some trouble with it in the past and have beat a bug eye wrx 2 out of 3 pulls. Just wanted to clear that up. Don't bash a car if you don't know much about it. It didn't win all those car of year awards for nothing.

Right, I have no clue what I am talking about aside from driving the crap out of one numerous times. It is an e-diff, not a true LSD, that is tied to the TCS. If you disable the TCS, it will disable the e-diff nonsense. And considering I took an 06 GTi of a light with my MR-S, it is clear that WRX driving had no clue what he was doing. So please, before you try to lecture me on how a car works, I advise you actually understand it yourself. The fact that the car spools the turbo so early actually hurts it in tight cornering because that inside tire will smoke if you disable the driving aids.

As for reliability, we can ask for Philly's input, or the several people I know with MkV GTi's that have had repeated visits to the shop.

Car of the Year? For show? How many timed events have your placed in?

 

[Philly]

Excellent! I hope the previous owner bought the extended warranty. All I can say is take care of it and check the oil frequently. And I mentioned reliability in my suggestions post...

As for car of the year? Well, it does everything very well. Want to win at the track? You'll want an Atom for that. And those aren't great on the freeway to work every day. Want a commuter car? Maybe you could get a Camry. But those are dull and boring. The GTI is an excellent balance between daily driver and sports car.

 

[socomplayer2]

Right, I have no clue what I am talking about aside from driving the crap out of one numerous times. It is an e-diff, not a true LSD, that is tied to the TCS. If you disable the TCS, it will disable the e-diff nonsense. And considering I took an 06 GTi of a light with my MR-S, it is clear that WRX driving had no clue what he was doing. So please, before you try to lecture me on how a car works, I advise you actually understand it yourself. The fact that the car spools the turbo so early actually hurts it in tight cornering because that inside tire will smoke if you disable the driving aids.

As for reliability, we can ask for Philly's input, or the several people I know with MkV GTi's that have had repeated visits to the shop.

Car of the Year? For show? How many timed events have your placed in?

Well I don't know about the cornering because I have never taken it around a road course or had a witness to watch me go around a corner under acceleration. It wont "one wheel wonder" down the street. Off the line it isn't nearly as bad as you put it out to be. You make it out to be a pig that will break every 5k. Its a great car I don't see why your hating on it. Yes, I will give you I DON'T know the finer details on the edl, but I know with out traction it handles great. No, not as good as your Mr-s but good for what it is.

About the reliability, its unfortunate that Philly's car had so many problems but if I remember from 06-07 (don't quote me on that), and if I remember correctly Philly owns an 06, VW fixed some of the common problems plaguing the car like the time bomb of a DV and a huge portion of the electrical problems plaguing the '06 models and other things I don't quite remember. One cant judge a cars reliability buy the people who have the most problems because it isn't fair. I doubt many people have had the problems Philly has had or else no one would get one. If i remember correctly the DSG trans had some problems, maybe thats why Philly has problems (what was wrong with your car Philly?). On the gti's defense, mine, any of my friends or people I have encountered with one, were ever plagued with any problems. I know for a fact a good portion of these cars were raced and beat on including my for a period of time.

I am not trying to bash your knowledge on cars because you probably have a lot more experience with cars than I have, but I don't like how people hate on the gti. Its a great car that is quick, fun and practical. Ever car has its downsides. Im sorry if I offended you in some way but I felt in this case the things you were saying negatively were exaggerated.

 

[Azuremen]

Compared to a proper quick car, or even a front driver with an LSD, the GTi is not stellar. Even the latest Civic Si's, down quite a bit when you compare the torque and a similar curb weight, will out perform a GTi at auto cross stock simply due to better gearing and the LSD. Yes, you can leave the TCS on and utilize the e-diff, but that will play more conservative than an experienced driver would prefer, and if you turn it off, you will get the inside tire spinning if you are not careful.

The big difference in experience is mostly I've driven and raced a variety of cars, and been in countless more as a passenger at events. The GTi is compromise of comfort and some performance. It is basically a soft hot hatch.

As for reliability, the USDM VW are just not as well built as european counter parts. Consumer Guide, and many other professional groups will attest to this, along with the personal experiences of most owners. Most every mechanic I know will put a sailor to shame if you mention working on a VW, even compared to the hassle of the Boxer in Subarus.

At this price point I would have suggested an E46 M3, or for less, an E36, but I didn't suggest because I didn't want another one to be destroyed by a kid. If not wanting to deal with that image or RWD, next picks would have been DC5 Type S (or maybe a current Civic Si sedan) or even a WRX. A lot of similarities in the WRX to GTi comparison, with price, power, and target audience. The time I put on an 06 WRX was nice, lacked a little of refinement of the GTi but using the torque was much easier to manage. The WRX was also more responsive to lift off and trail braking than the GTi.

I dunno, it isn't a bad car, just not one I'd ever own or suggest - I just feel there are better options for the money on the market.

 

[socomplayer2]

I guess its not really a sports car but more a car with some sport. Not saying its perfect but its a good car to start with for this kid. It will give a good taste of a quick car in smaller package.

 

[Eggo]

What about insurance for all this? is it cheap in the US, cause in the UK for me to insure my first car it was £2300 for a 1.3l 94 civic hatch! let alone a GTI or all that good stuff?

 

[Azure Flare]

I think I will go get a Mk.V (or a Mk.VI) GTI now.

 

[Philly]

About the reliability, its unfortunate that Philly's car had so many problems but if I remember from 06-07 (don't quote me on that), and if I remember correctly Philly owns an 06, VW fixed some of the common problems plaguing the car like the time bomb of a DV and a huge portion of the electrical problems plaguing the '06 models and other things I don't quite remember. One cant judge a cars reliability buy the people who have the most problems because it isn't fair. I doubt many people have had the problems Philly has had or else no one would get one. If i remember correctly the DSG trans had some problems, maybe thats why Philly has problems (what was wrong with your car Philly?). On the gti's defense, mine, any of my friends or people I have encountered with one, were ever plagued with any problems. I know for a fact a good portion of these cars were raced and beat on including my for a period of time.

I do think this is part of the problem. Mine is a 2006.5, which makes it the second year of production for either the engine or transmission (some 05 Audis had the setup). So really the car was still a bit experimental. Because how many other manufacturers were running a small, direct injected and turbocharged engine at the time? And VW learned from these with later cars, so I assume a lot of the chronic problems like oil consumption have been worked out somewhat.

As for reliability, the USDM VW are just not as well built as european counter parts. Consumer Guide, and many other professional groups will attest to this, along with the personal experiences of most owners. Most every mechanic I know will put a sailor to shame if you mention working on a VW, even compared to the hassle of the Boxer in Subarus.

The GTIs are built completely in Wolfsburg, except I believe the engine, which comes from Hungary.

 

[Rennsport]

Honda fit or something along those lines. Yes, I'm serious. No matter how well you taught him, or you think you did, getting him a "fast" car will be the worst thing you could do. Kids get urges, you can't stop that. He's 16, he doesn't need a fast car.

+1 million. In retrospect, i wish i started driving a Honda Civic. Great choice with the GTi

 

[MowTin]

It's not really what you're looking for but I would recommend a 2003 Acura MDX with Nav and touring package.

I own an MDX and I am extremely happy with it. Friends and family keep asking to borrow my car because their little sadans can't handle big cargo from home depot, can't handle heavy snow, or can't carry 8 people. All this versatility plus a ton of comfort and luxury (nice audio).

At 16 being able to bring 8 of your friends to a concert or party would make you a popular kid.

If you don't want an SUV then a used BMW would also make him very popular. And helping your son get laid is the best gift a dad can possibly give

 

[Rotary Junkie]

The VW he already bought will do plenty well I think