Any mention about improving wheel feedback effects (G25/G27)?

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Hello everyone...

I've been reading the forum and the threads again and again, and no-one seems to ask for more depending on how the wheels react to the GT driving and I haven't seen anywhere about feedback improvements.

I am not happy atm with GT5 Prologue's feedback and that was since I met the PC Simbin series (GTR2, GTR Evo, Race on), and from what I've been used to in those sims, I expect a whole lot more from GT.

...Especially in the two newer Simbin games, the wheel feedback gives you information from engine vibration, braking, holes on the road, instability in high speeds and in general I feel like it informs me better about the road; about the road feeling, I know this is subjective but I say what it seems to me. I like the way GT informs you about the curves, and since my first experience with the G25 was with GT at first I enjoyed the wobble when you came out of drafting behind a car, but now I wish there was less effect to it...

To sum things up, although I care about weather effects and damage etc, my main concern is the wheel feedback. Will it be changed in any way? Does anyone have any info on this? Maybe someone that took part in the academy noticed any changes? If it played the least like Simbin games it would be divine... really :)
 
I too would like to see a big improvement in the FFB, I have not read anything to suggest they are working on this, but there is a difference between the GT TT demo and prologue. I think the differences between the two are not all good though and I mostly prefer the FFB in prologue than the TT demo. I find the TT demo's biggest problem for me is it feels too notchy.
 
+1

The FFB definitely needs improvement, I hope this is one of the things that is greatly improved for the release of GT5.
 
I think the FFB works really good in the TT demo. I use the FANATEC wheel, as well I did 3 months of iRacing. iRacing is way better in feedback over Race on, GTR2, and EVO, the games feel arcade compared to iRacing, and it seems very similar to GT5s Feedback..


So I think GT5 is as similar (with bit differances) when compared to the God of all sims, iRacing.
 
I tried iRacing myself, I hate it actually, only thing I really liked is the 'jump' feel when shifting gears on the SR8. I don't know how you people 'measure' physics, if there's a way to do so, but iRacing just *FEELS* wrong. One minute you are on the road, next one you lose control with NO feedback information at all. And I can assure you that I don't hate it because of its difficulty, but rather because its lack of feedback. Maybe it's the Fanatec wheel, maybe it's personal opinion, iRacing provides very little info compared to Simbin games. Heh, you don't even have to get used to them; first time you play it, it just feels like driving. Let alone it gives me the exact same feeling I get on my car (just an Opel Corsa) but the info on my hands feels the SAME as on my car..

...finally, I don't care how good the simulation is, as long as it doesn't inform me correctly to my input controls. I'd rather it would handle and feel right than actually respond to your action and not feeling it.
 
I think the FFB works really good in the TT demo. I use the FANATEC wheel, as well I did 3 months of iRacing. iRacing is way better in feedback over Race on, GTR2, and EVO, the games feel arcade compared to iRacing, and it seems very similar to GT5s Feedback..


So I think GT5 is as similar (with bit differances) when compared to the God of all sims, iRacing.

Did you feel the TT demo was more notchy than prologue? It could be that I have G25, it was like I could feel every tooth meshing in the G25. I don't feel that in prologue or especially not in LFS, imo the best FFB I have tried. I have not played any of the GTR sims, or iRacing. Is there any free demos of these games? I would like to try them out, just for comparison.
 
With Prologue, i felt that NOTCH or Twitch from time to time, especially on straight lines and high speeds.. With TT DEMO and my RS wheel, it felt perfect smooth, all issues are gone I did not even had to seperate the cable from the shifter to use the sequential paddles anymore.. Seems it might be supported for FULL GT5 :)., almost as it was iRacing.
 
Hmm, I was playing GTR2 last saturday and I can't agree. Maybe I just don't have configured the wheel properly, but the FFB feels loosy and weak. With GT5 the wheel feedback is by far stronger and gives much a more precise read of the car. I'm no expert in this, so I might be wrong.
 
eight6er and dan: you should both try GTR Evo Demo and also Volvo - The game, made by Simbin that is absolutely free for promotional reasons. You can download the evo demo from their site (http://www.gtr-evolution.com/downloads.htm) and volvo from here:

http://www.simbin.se/games/volvogame.htm

GTR 2, because it's sooo old, is a bit outdated by the added logitech g25 support, although there's a hidden ffb menu and several guides on how to use them properly by the big online community.

Just play Evo demo, increase most ffb stuff to 45-50% (braking, engine vibration, etc) feedback to 80% and Full effects and you'll see what I mean. Simbin games' ffb feels like twice as strong as used in GT.

Back to the thread. Some things about GT are not even comparable. Gorgeous graphics, lovely sound (except tire screetches blah-blah...), variety, quality, front-end, replayability, challenges, etc... if only ffb would be improved in a way...
 
Even when I drive a REAL cars, feedback is smooth as in GT5, GTR2 have Racing cars, maybe GT5 will improve the Racing car's feedback bit more and tougher. Who knows. But it's really is more superior over SinBins games. You feel way more, on how acts and when its loose and tight on each corner and actions. Pretty much ALL reviews says iRacing has best feel of them all, even NASCAR star, DALE JR (same guy who wanted to see NASCAR in GT5) . plays iRacing, and he agrees that its almost as real life with the Feedback. And he pays for the game, iRacing does not invited him to say that.
 
Nice one for those links:)👍 downloading now. I got excited when I saw the boxy 242 in the volvo game:)

PD are obviously working on the FFB, but who knows if it will change between TT demo and final. I hope they get it, just right.

@Umbra, I think the FFB is good in TT demo, but I think it feels kind of blank when you go beyond the limits, sliding the car.
 
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I have GTR Evo - it has a lot of canned FFB effects, nothing like what you get in a real car. It feels rather loose and vague. Along with the simplistic and somewhat arcadey physics. iRacing is better, tighter and snappier

GT5 TT feels like iRacing except, it has too much centre spring and it lacks all the high frequency road bumps. And because the centre spring is so strong, all the subtle physics FFB details get drowned out
 
GTR Evo doesn't feel loose and vague to me at all; some may not like all the effects (like engine vibration)... but I don't think there would be anyone that wouldn't like vibrating effects from braking. Or the wheel feeling completely loose when your car is airborne for a split second and then getting hard and stiff again as it touches ground. And in GTR Evo when the car loses control the wheel doesn't loosen up like in GT - quite the opposite, it gets harder and pushes to the opposite direction, which feels quite realistic to me.

But I think it's a matter of settings actually. Different settings make HUGE differences, trust me.. and there are like 10+ settings to mess with in the game.

As for the physics, I may be an idiot and just don't get it. In real life physics exist but the response of a car on the road depends on a billion factors, including luck. There is absolutely no chance that two passes of the same asphalt on the same car feel EXACTLY the same. Games can't simulate every single factor; or luck. They can simulate a feeling though. Opinions from anyone out there, besides being subjective, could be 'bought'. This more realistic than that, etc. The realism can only be proven by watching each game's engine source code I think. But even that doesn't mean a thing if the game doesn't FEEL right.

When playing iRacing I was constantly tip-toeing and holding my breath in every corner and the car kept losing control every once and a while. Being tough, doesn't mean it's physics- accurate... or FUN in any way. I didn't feel the rush in the turns, like I do when playing Race on or Evo. I mean these games changed my whole opinion about graphics in games. It's a lot of enjoyment even if a game doesn't have the GT looks.

...or maybe I have a different perception of senses than the rest of the world :)
 
Yeah I don't like the physics in iRacing, the cars feel really flimsy and light, but it has good FFB, which is partially because the tracks are laser scanned so all those small bumps and cambers are present and you can feel them.

Like I always keep saying if you give me the feel from the GT5 TT, along with NetKar Pro, and the power oversteer feel from Enthusia along with the transmission and clutch modelling from LFS, with the FFB detail from iRacing I will be happy :)

NetKar Pro - latest beta version has good FFB, try it
 
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They need to fix the wobbling at high speed. It was in GT5P and even in the Time trial Demo.
They could add some settings too, steering lock, FFB effects, dead zone. But I'm very satisfied with the FFB and compared to the other sim I play (LFS) it's way better.
 
Whilst driving the GT Academy demo... I couldn't see or feel anything that felt wrong with the FFB. I am a complete newbie to wheel racing btw, and my experience is with PS3 games only. But that GT Academy demo felt very close to the real thing for me. If they improve it come GT5, brilliant. But where they've got too, is defo good enough for me.
 
First off Dale Jr. isn't even any good so why is his opinion important.

Anyways, I'll agree that GTR Evolution's FFB is wayyy better than GT's. Although I do like the feel of coming out of the corner on Tsukuba and hammering the brakes to go into the 180 degree left and feeling your back end shimmy while all your weight is on the front end. That GT does just fine. Overall though, GTR Evo feels great. But all you have is race cars to compare. Of course stock cars you won't feel near as much, but the Amuse GT1 is a full race car. So the sound and feel should be almost violent as it is in the Simbin titles. Also, another thing that I think helps Simbin is it's amazing sound and features like shift feel and other things. And of course the ability to change all of the FFB settings which i think we will see in GT5. That will probably make the difference.

But, I have to lash out at Simbin on one account versus GT. I was sooo looking forward to Nurburgring on GTR Evo and when I finally got to play it it dissapointed me. The GT4 Nurburgring had all or most of the bumps and off camber spots of the 'Ring where as GTR Evo felt smooth as a baby's bottom. It is kinda boring and very dissappointing. I think the tracks and lack there of bumps and such are the major down point to the Simbin titles. I was hoping for that on the edge halfway scared to push it through the 'Ring feeling that you get from GT4. It was not there at all. I just hammered through the whole course and was quite mad.
 
Don't forget the crazy bumps on the Le Mans at high speed in GT4. Even iRacing isn't this violent! You can barely keep the wheel steady!
I think PD probably calibrated all the FFB settings to this track when going ver 300+kph, so if this is the most violent bumps wise, then everything is scaled relative to it.


edit - Anyway I just got done - doing a 10 lap race on Laguna Seca (which isn't as good as GT4's BTW, and definitely not iRacing's one)
in GTR Evo with the Audi R8 GT car. FFB still feels loose like I remembered. Even the going over curbs and bumps still not as good as the GT5 TT.
It just doesn't have that sharp snap to it
 
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CoolColJ, I am at work atm, but looks like your settings are way off, I might post a screenshot of my settings and try those. Nsane1, exactly my thoughts! Yes, the tracks need some work, tracks generally, graphics-wise, design-wise, render-wise, lighting-wise...

..but in the few parts that bumps DO exist, it feels great, I hope everyone agrees. There are some points that there are bumps and when the car is airborne the wheel instantly turns loose and hard back again...

..and last but not least. The feel of the clutch... works like a real car. AWESOME. Not like GT Prologue so far (although I am certain that this will be fixed by GT5 comes out) that you have to FULLY-press in order to shift gears...
 
CoolColJ, I am at work atm, but looks like your settings are way off, I might post a screenshot of my settings and try those. Nsane1, exactly my thoughts! Yes, the tracks need some work, tracks generally, graphics-wise, design-wise, render-wise, lighting-wise...

..but in the few parts that bumps DO exist, it feels great, I hope everyone agrees. There are some points that there are bumps and when the car is airborne the wheel instantly turns loose and hard back again...

..and last but not least. The feel of the clutch... works like a real car. AWESOME. Not like GT Prologue so far (although I am certain that this will be fixed by GT5 comes out) that you have to FULLY-press in order to shift gears...

But you don't have to press the clutch full in in real life.

I usually press it like half way and the shift is smooth. That probably depends on the car though.
 
CoolColJ, I am at work atm, but looks like your settings are way off, I might post a screenshot of my settings and try those. Nsane1, exactly my thoughts! Yes, the tracks need some work, tracks generally, graphics-wise, design-wise, render-wise, lighting-wise...

..but in the few parts that bumps DO exist, it feels great, I hope everyone agrees. There are some points that there are bumps and when the car is airborne the wheel instantly turns loose and hard back again...

..and last but not least. The feel of the clutch... works like a real car. AWESOME. Not like GT Prologue so far (although I am certain that this will be fixed by GT5 comes out) that you have to FULLY-press in order to shift gears...

Nothing wrong with settings, it's how the FFB feels. You just can't control the car as precisely as I could with the GT5 TT.
I even loaded up the Indy road course, and ran another 10 lap race on it with various cars, and the GT5 TT felt far superior in physics, car control, general feel etc and it was just a humble 370z

All those long constant radius turns on the Indy road course can tell you a lot about a game's physics engine and feel
 
This thread was meant for FFB information mostly. Gran Turismo is absolutely stunning when it comes to precision and to cars response. I haven't even seen anything that even comes close to GT when we are talking about different feeling of the cars. But those are other issues...

Jarmo: That's what I meant; in GT you have to fully compress the clutch, while in GTR Evo you can even shift gears clutchless..
 
This thread was meant for FFB information mostly. Gran Turismo is absolutely stunning when it comes to precision and to cars response. I haven't even seen anything that even comes close to GT when we are talking about different feeling of the cars. But those are other issues...

Jarmo: That's what I meant; in GT you have to fully compress the clutch, while in GTR Evo you can even shift gears clutchless..

Oh, sorry. I thought you meant it the other way around.

I've never played GT with a steering wheel.
 
that's because there is a auto clutch setting in GTR Evo, and most PC sims - I think this is what you mean

Anyway FFB is part of feel, because FFB is providing you resistance when you turn etc
I do understand what your getting at, but a lot of the GTR Evo FFB effects are mostly cosmetic. I turn down the engine vibration because it masks the important stuff. As far as the actual FFB feel, like I said before, it feels kinda doughy and loose to me. Smoothed out if you will
 
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...I know precisely what I mean. I mean you can shift clutchless using manual clutch and NOT auto-clutch... what matters is the overall feeling. By no means, I don't mean that GTR is absolutely perfect but has a lot of advantages over GT. That's all.

PD? Are you listening? Any new settings for the FFB????? Clutchless shifting? Helloooo? Anyone..??
 
...I know precisely what I mean. I mean you can shift clutchless using manual clutch and NOT auto-clutch... what matters is the overall feeling. By no means, I don't mean that GTR is absolutely perfect but has a lot of advantages over GT. That's all.

PD? Are you listening? Any new settings for the FFB????? Clutchless shifting? Helloooo? Anyone..??

But how does it feel different in GTR? I mean when shifting with and without clutch.

In real life you'd have to match the revs when downshifting if you want to get the gear in place etc. etc.
 
..I don't care if it damages the gearbox or not, I want it to do whatever I ask it to. If you half-press the clutch in GT Prologue and shift gears, it won't change... I want to shift using half-clutch, full-clutch or NO clutch at all - although using manual clutch :D
 
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