Any mention about improving wheel feedback effects (G25/G27)?

  • Thread starter Thread starter scooterlord
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Yeah, but GTR is indiscriminate - it'll pop it straight in regardless of any rpm mis-match. That's something that annoyed me at first. You can do the same in LFS, except it doesn't "re-engage" the drivetrain until the revs do match.

I can't describe it, but something about GTR Evo is just "numb" - despite the strong effects. That said, I do enjoy thrashing the Lotus 7 thingies about!
 
We can all argue about which physics feel more real and there will be no resolution as our opinions vary based upon our real world experience etc. Personally, I care a bit less about which physics are more real and more about which I enjoy more. While I have a decent amount of track time in several different cars and have attended a racing school as well, I wouldn't hold myself up as an authority on which is most accurate. But I can tell you which I enjoy more :)

One thing is clear to me, the pc games have much greater strength to their FFB than GT5p or Forza 3 has. I play Simbin titles with FFB turned way up and the strength of the effects blows GT5p out of the water. That doesn't mean the effects themselves are always a lot better but you can feel them so much more that it makes a huge difference in quality of experience to me.

I do think iRacing is doing more to be a real simulation than any other experience available. They don't have to cater to a casual player audience like GT does. Even Simbin has to appeal a bit to the casual audience. Iracing makes no concessions for this player. They have accurate tracks and very few cars modeled. For cars they do have, they use enormous amounts of data in their modeling. As an example, they weigh individual components if they can. They can go to greater lengths to get accuracy than PD can because they are only doing a few cars. Of course, PD does a good job when you consider the volume of vehicles in the GT games.

Simbin also does a good job with physics imo. Someone called them arcadey and I have no idea where that comes from. You must not have played the same games that I have. Are they as realistic as iRacing? No. But I think the Simbin engine is more fun for most people vs. iRacing and it is certainly not arcadey compared to GT titles.

And for the person dissing Dale Earnhardt's opinion... give us a break will you? I'm no Nascar fan but when a successful, professional race car driver weighs in on the accuracy of racing simulations, his or her opinion is more interesting than any of ours on this forum.






scooterlord
GTR Evo doesn't feel loose and vague to me at all; some may not like all the effects (like engine vibration)... but I don't think there would be anyone that wouldn't like vibrating effects from braking. Or the wheel feeling completely loose when your car is airborne for a split second and then getting hard and stiff again as it touches ground. And in GTR Evo when the car loses control the wheel doesn't loosen up like in GT - quite the opposite, it gets harder and pushes to the opposite direction, which feels quite realistic to me.

But I think it's a matter of settings actually. Different settings make HUGE differences, trust me.. and there are like 10+ settings to mess with in the game.

As for the physics, I may be an idiot and just don't get it. In real life physics exist but the response of a car on the road depends on a billion factors, including luck. There is absolutely no chance that two passes of the same asphalt on the same car feel EXACTLY the same. Games can't simulate every single factor; or luck. They can simulate a feeling though. Opinions from anyone out there, besides being subjective, could be 'bought'. This more realistic than that, etc. The realism can only be proven by watching each game's engine source code I think. But even that doesn't mean a thing if the game doesn't FEEL right.

When playing iRacing I was constantly tip-toeing and holding my breath in every corner and the car kept losing control every once and a while. Being tough, doesn't mean it's physics- accurate... or FUN in any way. I didn't feel the rush in the turns, like I do when playing Race on or Evo. I mean these games changed my whole opinion about graphics in games. It's a lot of enjoyment even if a game doesn't have the GT looks.

...or maybe I have a different perception of senses than the rest of the world :)
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GTR Evo does feel arcadey and more simplistic than the GT5 Time trial to me.
It feels like you pivot around the centre of the car instead of something happening at each wheel. Like I said, that Indy road course can tell you a lot about how a game feels with those long constant radius turns

GT5 TT FFB are there but heavily masked by the centre sping force, and there is no way to turn it down
 
CoolColJ
I had no issues with wobbling, I use a DFGT wheel
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I use DFGT and I get wobbling from the faster cars eg Ferrari F1 car, Citroen GT
What setting have you guys put the wheel on? I always put it on 10/10 feedback
 
Raagentreg
I use DFGT and I get wobbling from the faster cars eg Ferrari F1 car, Citroen GT
What setting have you guys put the wheel on? I always put it on 10/10 feedback
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I used 2-4 in the GT5 Time trial
Any higher and it's too heavy to turn the car vs real life. My work van has no power steering and feels easier to turn than the FFB set at 5!
Power steered cars feel more like 2. I use real life as a reference

You'll start getting oscillating at high FFB levels

Sometimes when I drive in real life I start to get a sense of Deja Vu, because some of the things felt so similar to the GT5 TT :)
A lot of things you feel in real life, are felt in your bum. Some games try and put that into the FFB on the wheel, but it feels canned when they do that.
 
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Griffith500
Yeah, but GTR is indiscriminate - it'll pop it straight in regardless of any rpm mis-match. That's something that annoyed me at first. QUOTE]

I'll have to disagree with this. If you set your clutch setting higher that the normal 20% left off them if you don't match your rpm's your rear wheels will lock up on a hard downshift. This is of course shifting without a clutch after you get moving. As you would in a car equipped with a sequential transmission. Also, I like the fast that you have to left off the gas when you shift up or it could cause you to spin. the more I think about it though the FFB in the TT might have been a little better as said but the centering spring probably makes the most difference between the two games. But, I will say I think the reason I like GTR's feel more is a lot to do with the clutch and shifting. The fact that you can't just downshift hard and not expect the back wheels to lock up and the fact that you can over rev the motor if you don't let off the gas when shifting is amazing. I wish that it would have adverse affects to the motor, aka damaging it. Hopfully though GT5 will incorporate this. I drive GTR Evo with the auto clutch off even though I have a DFGT just so I have to do these things. Bad thing about that is I have to dump the clutch when I take off to keep from killing it because the DFGT doesn't have a "proper" clutch. I do like how GTR gives you the feel in steering when you start to understeer.

Also, I think a lot of the difference between FFB in GT series and simbin title is the wheel weight. Which you can change in Dirt2. Most of the track cars in real life I have messed with have the power steering disconnected and looped back into itself giving it a non-power feel. A much heavier feel. Which I would love to have in the race cars on GT5. I know the stock or close to stock cars should still have power steering and have a weaker feel but the cars like the Amuse GT1 and other race cars should have a heavier feel to the steering because they don't want to lose any power to running the power steering pump. Oh well, we agree to disagree.
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I personally find this to be one of the most important and valid points of discussion, in regards to GT5. FFB for GT has always been a problem (in comparison to what the PC sim crowd is used to). GT5 can have the best physics evah... but if it does not communicate that to a wheel then its almost all for nought. I did not like the FFB in the GT Academy demo. GT5p was better in my opinion but still heavily lacking in communicating of the road surface and car weight transfer.
 
Yep, but addressing still won't solve anything. I wish someone had some info on this :(
 
Ever wonder if PD wants to make it more like a real wheel feel instead of putting all the different effects of a car in through the wheel in some sort of way. Let's face it, when your rear end breaks traction your steering wheel doesn't get lighter. But when you understeer it definitely does. I like how on GTR2 you could feel that edge of understeer grip through the wheel. It was amazing and difficult to control when you lose the wheel weight at the same time. But felt very real
 
I've been experiencing the iRacing force feedback and realizing just how weak prologue is. iRacing is somehow giving me so much more info, it gives you much more confidence to know what you're going to be able to get away with, I've really been missing that when switching back to prologue. I find the physics very comparable and easy to switch between the two, but I'm definitely missing that feedback. To me it's most obvious going in a straight line, I just feel nothing in prologue, but iRacing I'm feeling little bumps and blips all the time.

Definitely hoping they improve this in GT5. Sadly I wasn't in iRacing at the time the TT demo was out and didn't pay any attention to whether or not there were any changes. :( I assume that is no longer playable, but it's good to find others reporting it was improved slightly.
 
tracks in iRacing are laser scanned, so they have a contour map that gives you all the high frequency bump detail

I don't think GT5 tracks will have this type of high frequency info, but you'll get the major bumps and and cambers though.
Some of the cars in GT5:P do feel somewhat bumpy on Suzuka, like the 599. It varies from car to car

Le Mans at high speed was really bumpy in GT4! So much so it's almost too hard to hold the wheel steady, which is something iRacing can't even compare too!
Will be interesting to see how GT5 will feel like in comparison, especially with the better physics and hard to handle LMP and group C cars :)
 
Which wheel would you guys recommend? I'm hoping to buy one before GT5 comes out, whenever that is, and I was wondering what your opinions on it might be, thanks.
 
Matti_Dude
Which wheel would you guys recommend? I'm hoping to buy one before GT5 comes out, whenever that is, and I was wondering what your opinions on it might be, thanks.
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Lots of info on wheels in the steering wheels and racing cockpit forum: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=163

But in short, Logitech G27 if you can afford it ($300ish USD I think), Logitech G25 (slightly older but still very good, should be cheaper, if anyone is still selling them), or Logitech Driving Force GT if you want something more entry level. (about half the price of the G27)
 
Oh right thanks, sorry I should have used my initiative and searched rather than clutter this thread. But thanks for the help.
 
Matti_Dude
Oh right thanks, sorry I should have used my initiative and searched rather than clutter this thread. But thanks for the help.
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You could always wait for this:

move-wheel.jpg
 
Ahahahha nice one Lmao. Were they really creating this magical floating wheel? :lol:


Anyway, you should buy the G27 if you have enough money. I bought it and I think it's awesome!

But does anyone know why the LED light doesn't work in Rfactor?
 
Yeah Mario kart is a good game to have fun on, but it just wouldn't suit Gran Turismo's style having a wheel that you could just walk about with whilst playing.
 
Matti_Dude
Yeah Mario kart is a good game to have fun on, but it just wouldn't suit Gran Turismo's style having a wheel that you could just walk about with whilst playing.
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Believe it or not, a mate of mine made a rig out of some 2x2 wood stock, some nails, some hooks and some rubber bands. You wrapped the bands around the wheel and then the bands over the hooks - kinda suspending the wheel in mid-air between the two uprights. Voila, instant resistance when turning corners! :lol:

I wish I'd taken a photo, but I didn't have my phone with me at the time, and the rig only lasted about 10 minutes as he kicked it to pieces and went back to playing the game normally!
 
I would buy fanatec carrrera wheel that seems to be the best value currently. It depends of course on personal preference.
 
TokyoDrift
Believe it or not, a mate of mine made a rig out of some 2x2 wood stock, some nails, some hooks and some rubber bands. You wrapped the bands around the wheel and then the bands over the hooks - kinda suspending the wheel in mid-air between the two uprights. Voila, instant resistance when turning corners! :lol:

I wish I'd taken a photo, but I didn't have my phone with me at the time, and the rig only lasted about 10 minutes as he kicked it to pieces and went back to playing the game normally!
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Haha well I guess that's one thing you could do to give that mario kart feel. He should have kept it incase he got bored of playing the game normally.
 
Has anyone tried out a DFP with the GT5TT or have info on this wheel with the GT5? The FFB effects of the DFP in GT5P are not very good and I'm hoping we will see an improvement in GT5. The DFP works great in the PC sims (Race07, GTR2,iRacing) and I hope I can some comparable FFB in GT5.

I will start digging through older posts/threads for info

9 days to go!!
:)
 
THe question you want to ask is GT5 improved with DFP over GT5P and TT demo. I hear the feedback improved in FULL game but they are only using the newer DF GT wheels.
 
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