Anyone else feel ripped off?

[Firedragon]

For starters i couldn't care less on making you "jumpy" with my posts and that is not my point. The negative things i say about GT are making you jumpy as it seems you can't really handle people stating these facts. Thus as you can't seem to stand people rightfully complaining about, what is to many, essentialy a flawed game, leads me to believe you sport the fanboy medal yes as you take it personally.

You make me laugh.

You see, this kind of an attitude can only be expected from people like you. I am gladly nominating this for contradiction of the year. This is just sad, both for you and for the forum.

So yeah, this again only proves that you're only here to stir things up, instead of having a proper discussion with actual facts, because the things you are stating are generalisations without any nuances and couldn't be any further away from true facts. And never mind if anyone has a different opinion, then you're just going to make things personal, don't you? Trying to shake it off by laughing at it...wow, that's pretty pathetic.

Calling me 'fanboy' and not even replying focused on the content of the discussion is what makes your posts atrocious. But then again, you can't, because your opinions are fully based on gut feelings and some quotes on the internet instead of actual experience with the game.

PD needs to be criticized and need to have a disappointment in the sales departement, before they will actually receive the wake up call that is long overdue.

Being critical of things is very much encouraged, but your attitude is just taking it to the extremes. This is not a wake-up call, but a cry full of insults.

 

[Imari]

So it's indeed true: rubberbanding is very apparent. But considering my own situation with his, there is a massive speed difference between the both of us, and yet the AI (at least the first two cars, that is) hangs on similarily in my race too. Without rubberbanding, either the AI would leave the player in that video in the dust (if the AI was as quick as in my situation). Or my race would have been a lot less exciting because the AI could never keep up (if the AI was as slow as in this video). So in terms of pure speed wise and how fast the AI is and adapts to the players' speed, I think the rubberbanding is not that bad at all and a good compromised solution. The net result is that both me and him were having a lot of fun and I think that counts. It's only a shame that the pure AI speed is not consistent and adaptive like this throughout the career mode, certainly not in the first 50% of the game (I'm at 53% now). In Arcade mode on AI agression of 10, this is he behavior what is to be expected every time.

So in Arcade on high levels of aggression they don't slow down when you spin out? They don't let you past for the win? Or these effects are just lessened?

For what it's worth, I don't think that rubberbanding (especially obvious rubberbanding) is a better solution than simple difficulty levels. But hey, if it's working for you then cool.

 

[Tornado]

You see, this kind of an attitude can only be expected from people like you. I am gladly nominating this for contradiction of the year. This is just sad, both for you and for the forum.

So yeah, this again only proves that you're only here to stir things up, instead of having a proper discussion with actual facts, because the things you are stating are generalisations without any nuances and couldn't be any further away from true facts. And never mind if anyone has a different opinion, then you're just going to make things personal, don't you? Trying to shake it off by laughing at it...wow, that's pretty pathetic.

This just tells me that you're not an avid follower of jimipitbull's posting history.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Not surprisingly, the sides have chosen up about as would be expected.

As to the OP, as this type of thread suggests, its all in how you look at it.

Personally, GT5 set the bar so high in the "rip off" category, it would be much more difficult for GT6 to meet that standard.

With that in mind, I don't feel necessarily "ripped off", but certainly not overly enthusiastic.

There are a few bright spots, such as the track additions, and the generally better physics.
But a lot of negatives as well.

My biggest concern is the trend toward less and less.

Rally is just a footnote now.
Not that I really cared, but no "B spec" at all.
And my beloved endurance races, gone with the wind.
Qualifying series races have already bit the dust.
Along with most of the one-make races.

Not to mention, I don't even get the chance to select from a few cars, to buy and start the game.
Hey PD, if Honda wants to pay you or whatever the deal is, then make it a separate event.
Never take player choice away.

 

[mister dog]

You see, this kind of an attitude can only be expected from people like you. I am gladly nominating this for contradiction of the year. This is just sad, both for you and for the forum.

So yeah, this again only proves that you're only here to stir things up, instead of having a proper discussion with actual facts, because the things you are stating are generalisations without any nuances and couldn't be any further away from true facts. And never mind if anyone has a different opinion, then you're just going to make things personal, don't you? Trying to shake it off by laughing at it...wow, that's pretty pathetic.

Calling me 'fanboy' and not even replying focused on the content of the discussion is what makes your posts atrocious.


Being critical of things is very much encouraged, but your attitude is just taking it to the extremes. This is not a wake-up call, but a cry full of insults.

Nice going there mixing up quotes. The below one wasn't even directed to you but to the trolling of your partner in crime .

Should have kept myself to my promise to not reply to you anymore it seems. You have the distinguished honor to be the very first GTP member to go on my ignore list (not sure what that does even haha) 👍

 

[Firedragon]

So in Arcade on high levels of aggression they don't slow down when you spin out? They don't let you past for the win? Or these effects are just lessened?

For what it's worth, I don't think that rubberbanding (especially obvious rubberbanding) is a better solution than simple difficulty levels. But hey, if it's working for you then cool.

Yeah, I'd say the effect is lessened, because they're still waiting. It's a lot less severe though, because they're not waiting to the point that players can win (like in the early races in career mode), but just enough as an extra help for the player to keep up. In a rain race with 2 laps on Bathurst, I've managed only 3rd while the first two cars were 15 seconds away...I reckon I would have needed another 5 laps or so to catch them.

But yeah, rubberbanding is a compromise and thanks to the forums, I'm even more aware of it now. It's just that I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt, rather than completely bashing it. Difficulty levels would certainly be welcome, but we musn't forget that AI is probably always going to be limited and can only be so good.

This just tells me that you're not an avid follower of jimipitbull's posting history.

I don't indeed, but what does that have to do with the mister dog's attitude? If jimipitbull is posting non-encouraged posts, then mister dog is also allowed to do so? Please enlighten me on this.

Nice going there mixing up quotes. The below one wasn't even directed to you but to the trolling of your partner in crime .

Should have kept myself to my promise to not reply to you anymore it seems. You have the distinguished honor to be the very first GTP member to go on my ignore list (not sure what that does even haha) 👍

Whatever, this behavior is yours is pretty stupid. It is irrelevant if it is towards another member or towards me. And you mentioning that I'm on your block list now...great for you and that even more proves my point: you're here just to destroy every opportunity of having a good discussion. It's instigating at its best so if you're awarding honors, let me do so too. I'm all in for a good discussion and I respect everyone's opinion, but it's impossible with your posts that are only there to troll.

 

[Soundtrack]

I question the "fact the AI has made a step in the right direction". I think it's the opposite, but as you pointed out it's not only an AI related problem. Let's face it, the whole series derailed in a holding hands product designed for super casual users with NO CHANCE for longtime fans to have a remotely competetive offline experience. Nodoby asked them that every race in GT6 have to be a chase the rabbit borefest. They deliberately ignored the option to have a selectable difficulty level, like many other MAINSTREAM games do.

Furthermore, there are reports around this forum saying they won races with considerably slower cars something you can't even do in GT5. Because GT6 rubber banding now has reached a whole new level, resembling baby sitting.

As longtime fans we should not lose sight of the fact these millions casuals gamers are the ones that make a number 7 iteration on PS4 a plausible reality. The franchise has a large user base with very different levels of skills. Make it too hard/unenjoyable for the average/casual and you take the risk of loosing too much off a revenue. Wave a definite goodbye to your beloved franchise. This could explains why they opted for the adaptive approach that may results in a quite unrealistic experience for the more involved players we are. I will agree that there are many races where I witnessed some unrealistic behaviors (mainly inconsistent laptimes and suspiciously close finishes) that repeated themselves over different events to the point it appeared has an distracting/annoying pattern. Still there where other where it didn’t interfere at all with me enjoying the game.

Also, as has already been pointed there are workarounds and there are ways (limited at this point) to setup events for a more satisfying offline experience. These setup will vary from player to player however. The fact that these options exist is positive, maybe you dislike that they aren’t proposed by default?

 

[HKS racer]

Have all of you guys based your opinions on playing the game only in career mode and not even up to the S classes? I guess not. If you have, do enlighten me. But also consider playing in Arcade Mode with the AI agressiveness on 10 before entirely forming your opinion, please.

Here's a thread that speak about Arcade Mode AI.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/arcade-mode-discussion-hints-tips-and-race-reports.290308/
Reports confirming options like full damage and tyre wear once available in GT5 are now gone.
Furthermore now starting grids are even more messy. You can't even try to follow a pattern like we used to in GT5 because now GT6 give you just random cars as opponents.

What you did with your wall of text is basically playing the name calling card in order to derail the thread and have some moderators closing it.

 

[Imari]

...but we musn't forget that AI is probably always going to be limited and can only be so good.

Maybe, but the best it can be is certainly a lot better than it is. Maybe having good AI would mean they'd need to sacrifice some other parts of the game a little, and I'd be kind of OK with that. Good AI is pretty central to a racing game, or at least it should be. Otherwise it's just kind of driving in circles.

Also, as has already been pointed there are workarounds and there are ways (limited at this point) to setup events for a more satisfying offline experience. These setup will vary from player to player however. The fact that these options exist is positive, maybe you dislike that they aren’t proposed by default?

I dislike that the "workarounds" aren't made explicit. Again, the difficulty levels thing. Why work around the game to engineer a difficult race, when the designers can simply give you a tool to do so.

It's like having a locked automatic thermostat on an air conditioner. Yeah, maybe you can tune it so that it kind of wavers from 20-25°C so that no one is uncomfortable for too long. Or you could just put a dial on it so that people could pick their temperature. Why get fancy when there's a simple, elegant, functional solution?

I have to imagine they spent way more time making and bug testing the adaptive part of the AI than would have been required for a simple difficulty slider. They have to have difficulty levels (or something analogous) for the adaptive part to flick between anyway. Why waste time designing this one-size-fits-all adaptive thing instead of just giving us control?

 

[jimipitbull]

You make me laugh.

No promises, but I'll give it my best shot.

Kaz walks misterdog into a bar. The bartender says "We don't serve your kind here".
Offended, misterdog growls "Why can't you be more like Shift 2" then rips out a piece
of the bar with his teeth, demanding to be served.
Kaz repiles "They don't serve drug users here". Misterdog denies being any such thing.
Kaz points to the damaged counter and says "Oh yeah? Just look at that bar-bit-yer-ate.

 

[Firedragon]

Here's a thread that speak about Arcade Mode AI.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/arcade-mode-discussion-hints-tips-and-race-reports.290308/
Reports confirming options like full damage and tyre wear once available in GT5 are now gone.
Furthermore now starting grids are even more messy. You can't even try to follow a pattern like we used to in GT5 because now GT6 give you just random cars as opponents.

What you did with your wall of text is basically playing the name calling card in order to derail the thread and have some moderators closing it.

So those complaints are legit. Putting things this way is a much more factual and correct way to do so, isn't it? This is so much better than, and I quote from you, 'chase the rabbit borefest'. Where's the detail in that? That's an overexaggerated generalisation right there.

And where am I calling people names? Just repeatedly asking for decent posts with more facts and experiences, rather than generalised statements while it is even admitted that someone hasn't even played the game, yet somehow has this strong opinion and laughs at/ridicules everyone who doesn't agree with him? It's rabble-rousing. And admittedly, that's not only in this thread, but in other parts of the forum as well.

 

[mister dog]

No promises, but I'll give it my best shot.

Kaz walks misterdog into a bar. The bartender says "We don't serve your kind here".
Offended, misterdog growls "Why can't you be more like Shift 2" then rips out a piece
of the bar with his teeth, demanding to be served.
Kaz repiles "They don't serve drug users here". Misterdog denies being any such thing.
Kaz points to the damaged counter and says "Oh yeah? Just look at that bar-bit-yer-ate.

Starting to like the ignore list at our disposal; troll added

 

[Kobooi]

I'm halfway of International B now and the AI is most of the times disappointing, even with me driving in a car that is around 100 pp lower and on sport hard tyres where cars are eligible up to sport softs.

"Even with". Have enough fanboys repeated that lowering PP and using harder tires is the recipe for close racing and better matched AI, that it became a fact?
If you start in last position with a gap of 25 seconds from the leader, and the race is 3 laps, you need to make up at least 8.3 seconds per lap on the leader to win (which means 10 seconds or more per lap on the other drivers), which means: no close racing. You can make it more difficult on yourself by choosing a slower car, but that doesn't change anything about those 10 seconds per lap.

 

[jimipitbull]

"Even with". Have enough fanboys repeated that lowering PP and using harder tires is the recipe for close racing and better matched AI, that it became a fact?
If you start in last position with a gap of 25 seconds from the leader, and the race is 3 laps, you need to make up at least 8.3 seconds per lap on the leader to win (which means 10 seconds or more per lap on the other drivers), which means: no close racing. You can make it more difficult on yourself by choosing a slower car, but that doesn't change anything on those 10 seconds per lap.

Coming second or third by a few seconds would indicate a close race and be more realistic for everyone except Sebastian Vettol.

 

[Firedragon]

"Even with". Have enough fanboys repeated that lowering PP and using harder tires is the recipe for close racing and better matched AI, that it became a fact?
If you start in last position with a gap of 25 seconds from the leader, and the race is 3 laps, you need to make up at least 8.3 seconds per lap on the leader to win (which means 10 seconds or more per lap on the other drivers), which means: no close racing. You can make it more difficult on yourself by choosing a slower car, but that doesn't change anything on those 10 seconds per lap.

Things are a lot more nuanced than that. The speed of the AI is not a constant (8.3 seconds per lap) slower, but it is adaptive. When you get closer to the top 3, those cars are way quicker and they speed up accordingly, depending on how quick you approach them. FYI, on the Le Mans race in the Supercar Festival (I-B), the Huayra I used was definitely nearing the PP limit.

Again...using the word 'fanboys'...disgusting.

 

[HKS racer]

As longtime fans we should not lose sight of the fact these millions casuals gamers are the ones that make a number 7 iteration on PS4 a plausible reality. The franchise has a large user base with very different levels of skills. Make it too hard/unenjoyable for the average/casual and you take the risk of loosing too much off a revenue. Wave a definite goodbye to your beloved franchise. This could explains why they opted for the adaptive approach that may results in a quite unrealistic experience for the more involved players we are. I will agree that there are many races where I witnessed some unrealistic behaviors (mainly inconsistent laptimes and suspiciously close finishes) that repeated themselves over different events to the point it appeared has an distracting/annoying pattern. Still there where other where it didn’t interfere at all with me enjoying the game.

Also, as has already been pointed there are workarounds and there are ways (limited at this point) to setup events for a more satisfying offline experience. These setup will vary from player to player however. The fact that these options exist is positive, maybe you dislike that they aren’t proposed by default?

Default? Without sounding arrogant I know everything about Arcade Mode in GT5. I was the one who discovered how to force certain grid patterns and how to force the game to do the stuff I want. As far as I know you just can't do the same stuff in GT6. Feel free to prove me wrong. (Sorry if I sound arrogant, not my intention).
And about the casual user argument let me highlight this part: " They deliberately ignored the option to have a selectable difficulty level, like many other MAINSTREAM games do. "

 

[Firedragon]

Default? Without sounding arrogant I know everything about Arcade Mode in GT5. I was the one who discovered how to force certain grid patterns and how to force the game to do the stuff I want. As far as I know you just can't do the same stuff in GT6. Feel free to prove me wrong. (Sorry if I sound arrogant, not my intention).
And about the casual user argument let me highlight this part: " They deliberately ignored the option to have a selectable difficulty level, like many other MAINSTREAM games do. "

Have you ever thought about why the AI can be better in Arcade Mode and have a slider there, while only having 10-12 cars instead of 16? I'm sure it has something to do with processing power. Maybe it's not even technically possible on the PS3 right now to have the better AI in combination with the simplified physics of the AI cars (there are some indications for that from my playing experience) for all of the 16 cars? Who knows. Stating that they deliberately ignored it, is utter nonsense, as then the slider would not even be there in Arcade Mode either.

From a standpoint of a somewhat technical person. Or there are even other reasons that could be of influence. We all can only guess, but stating that it was deliberate, is a bridge too far. Don't just assume things and then boldly shouting them out without actually knowing if those are true, please...

 

[HKS racer]

From a standpoint of a somewhat technical person. Or there are even other reasons that could be of influence. We all can only guess, but stating that it was deliberate, is a bridge too far. Don't just assume things and then boldly shouting them out without actually knowing if those are true, please...

Ok, you are trying to excuse PD because PS3 is old hardware and we can't have at least the same AI we had in GT5 Arcade Mode because it's eventually not technically possible. It's not user fault if PD can't balance things properly on a given hardware.

 

[Firedragon]

Ok, you are trying to excuse PD because PS3 is old hardware and we can't have at least the same AI we had in GT5 Arcade Mode because it's eventually not technically possible. It's not user fault if PD can't balance things properly on a given hardware.

No, I'm countering your statements, as they are clearly not facts, while you want others to believe they are. Stating that they did it deliberately...I cannot comprehend this, really.

It isn't an excuse either, but just an analysis of the situation. Sure, it's a compromise of all stuff considered (graphics and physics at the same time while trying to make the game have a decent enough framerate) and I agree it's not all that great at the moment. But it's the bold part of your statement that is full of emotion and is not really beneficial to the discussion, certainly because it is based on nothing but hot air.

 

[Soundtrack]

Default? Without sounding arrogant I know everything about Arcade Mode in GT5. I was the one who discovered how to force certain grid patterns and how to force the game to do the stuff I want. As far as I know you just can't do the same stuff in GT6. Feel free to prove me wrong. (Sorry if I sound arrogant, not my intention).
And about the casual user argument let me highlight this part: " They deliberately ignored the option to have a selectable difficulty level, like many other MAINSTREAM games do. "

I’m not here to prove you wrong. And did read your underlined quote.

Instead of having an Amateur/Professional/Alien button on the front page there are workarounds you have undoubtedly been hunting in GT5.👍 We haven’t yet all the tools in or hands with 6 but that doesn’t mean we can’t start the journey.

 

[mister dog]

I’m not here to prove you wrong. And did read your underlined quote.

Instead of having an Amateur/Professional/Alien button on the front page there are workarounds you have undoubtedly been hunting in GT5.👍 We haven’t yet all the tools in or hands with 6 but that doesn’t mean we can’t start the journey.

It's a bit sad that people have to start researching to be able to find some formula that provides what should be there already from the beginning. It shouldn't be up to us to desperately search for excitement (changing tyres, downgrading PP, going through all the modes in order to setup a race that gives you a bang for your buck), a good game designer would make sure that is already catered for IMO.

 

[Kobooi]

Coming second or third by a few seconds would indicate a close race and be more realistic for everyone except Sebastian Vettol.

No, it wouldn't. Coming second or third means that you made up 7.2 seconds per lap instead of the required 8.3 seconds. Explain me how being 7.2 seconds per lap faster than the winner can be an indication of close racing.

 

[HKS racer]

No, I'm countering your statements, as they are clearly not facts, while you want others to believe they are. Stating that they did it deliberately...I cannot comprehend this, really.

It isn't an excuse either, but just an analysis of the situation. Sure, it's a compromise of all stuff considered (graphics and physics at the same time while trying to make the game have a decent enough framerate) and I agree it's not all that great at the moment. But it's the bold part of your statement that is full of emotion and is not really beneficial to the discussion, certainly because it is based on nothing but hot air.

It is based on the fact that offline racing can be extremely boring for longtime fans and/or everyone looking for a decent challenge, they don't even need to be long time fans.
No I'm not talking about taking photos, collecting items, chit-chatting with friends, time trials...that can still be fun, I'm talking about racing, you know the thing I care the most in a racing game. Mad me.

If I consider boring a game with such nice graphics like GT6 something is not working properly. Can we ask why the situation is like that, actually? We have Jordan that could directly ask this question to but no, because interview are scripted and you CANNOT ask what people really want to know.

I’m not here to prove you wrong. And did read your underlined quote.

Instead of having an Amateur/Professional/Alien button on the front page there are workarounds you have undoubtedly been hunting in GT5.👍 We haven’t yet all the tools in or hands with 6 but that doesn’t mean we can’t start the journey.

I'm ok with searching, but this time I will not be a GT6 pioneer because actually the game doesn't appeal me enough, or better, the options given by PD in either Arcade Mode and GT Mode doesn't appeal me enough.

But I'm just a user, and even a boring one probably. So, you all have my support if you want to go out exploring what you can actually do in GT6, either in Career and Arcade.

There's a kind user, Classic who opened a video thread where you can post all GT6 AI moments of brilliance https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...rilliance-post-them-here.294898/#post-9131201

I'm looking forward to see your findings dear 👍

 

[Firedragon]

It is based on the factopinion that offline racing can be extremely boring for longtime fans and/or everyone looking for a decent challenge, they don't even need to be long time fans.
No I'm not talking about taking photos, collecting items, chit-chatting with friends, time trials...that can still be fun, I'm talking about racing, you know the thing I care the most in a racing game. Mad me.

If I consider boring a game with such nice graphics like GT6 something is not working properly. Can we ask why the situation is like that, actually? We have Jordan that could directly ask this question to but no, because interview are scripted and you CANNOT ask what people really want to know.

Fixed that for you.
But hey, I was talking about the 'deliberate' part and how that's made up.

 

[HKS racer]

Fixed that for you.
But hey, I was talking about the 'deliberate' part and how that's made up.

You fixed it, so you consider GT6 AI something different than extremely boring? Please enlight me, I want to see all the awesomness hidden in this gem. You can either post it here or in A.I.'s Moments of Brilliance - Post them here!

 

[jimipitbull]

No, it wouldn't. Coming second or third means that you made up 7.2 seconds per lap instead of the required 8.3 seconds. Explain me how being 7.2 seconds per lap faster than the winner can be an indication of close racing.

There are usually 12 - 16 cars in these races. Can you explain to me where you are pulling these numbers from, and why you think they apply to every race?

 

[Firedragon]

You fixed it, so you consider GT6 AI something different than extremely boring? Please enlight me, I want to see all the awesomness hidden in this gem. You can either post it here or in A.I.'s Moments of Brilliance - Post them here!

So you keep on stressing that it is a fact and not an opinion? Wow.

The thread's existence solely proves enough. But to answer your question: in the hours of career mode, I haven't been bored and certainly not extremely, no. Just a bit disappointed, but it hasn't spoiled the fun at all.

 

[HKS racer]

So you keep on stressing that it is a fact and not an opinion? Wow.

The thread's existence solely proves enough. But to answer your question: in the hours of career mode, I haven't been bored and certainly not extremely, no. Just a bit disappointed, but it hasn't spoiled the fun at all.

No I'm not stressing anything. I'm just looking for proofs that GT6 experience will be not extremely boring for me. There are 3 videos over there, not exactly enough. You can contribute if you find something.

 

[Firedragon]

No I'm not stressing anything. I'm just looking for proofs that GT6 experience will be not extremely boring for me. There are 3 videos over there, not exactly enough. You can contribute if you find something.

Well, then that's good to know that you stop posting gut feelings and bold them to misleadingly point them out as facts.

Well sure, but convincing you is not in my interest, as I have no share in PD whatsoever. But hey, make up your own opinion, as it's much more valued than just hearing others'. And in the meanwhile, just try to keep the opinion an opinion and don't overexaggeratedly promote it into a fact or try to make things looks worse than they are, and you're on your right way.

The first thing would be your sig...car classes and the PP system are in essence 100% the same, whereas the car class system is actually even more limiting in producing good grids.

 

[HKS racer]

thing would be your sig...car classes and the PP system are in essence 100% the same.

Can you explain a bit further. Car classes are "SuperGT" "FormulaGT" it's not like if it has the same PP it's in the same class. At least not in the rest of the World outside PD logic.