Anyone remember ? SNOW : FWD VS RWD, which one wins ?

[Max_DC]

Ok, I just searched for 15 min, but I couldn't find the thread anymore.
I think the thread I'm talking about was started last winter/spring and we discussed if FWD or RWD was better on snow.



One of you wanted to test it with his cars. I can't remember who it was, but what I do remember is, that this particular member was no nobody, but either a mod or a longtime member ( 2 or more years )...
He might have been a BMW fan, maybe Mspec ?

So here we are, where is your test ?
YOU (whoever you are ) thought I would forget it, but I didn't ....

I know it's been a long time, but I still think that FWD is better. And one of you wanted to prove me wrong. Where are you ?

 

[toyomatt84]

FWD would be better, there's no mistake about it. The majority of the car's weight would be over the front wheels.

 

[the Interceptor]

Yeah, I remember that discussion as well. If I'm not mistaken, the main argument of the pro RWD party was that, given a pre-crash situation, you can actually get out of it with proper, oversteering driving, while you're only a passenger waiting for impact in an understeering FWD car.

I'm with the FWD party though, cause I think getting the car to oversteer won't improve the result of the situation in 99% of the cases. It's like not wearing a seatbelt. In a specific crash, people have lived because they were not wearing it. However, in 99% or more of the cases, you will live because you were wearing it. Therefor, having RWD can avoid a crash, but in 99% of cases, it won't.

Considering normal driving in snow, I think the majority will agree that FWD is better than RWD.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[backspace]

the main argument of the pro RWD party was that, given a pre-crash situation, you can actually get out of it with proper, oversteering driving

Which 85% of the general driving population wouldn't be able to perform successfully anyway.

 

[Dave A]

Make that 95%+ of the general driving population. Considering the number of people that do drive, very, very, very few people actually know how to control a car beyond what you have to do daily.

 

[Raitziger]

FWD would be better, there's no mistake about it. The majority of the car's weight would be over the front wheels.

But under acceleration weight sifts to back. Steap snowy hills are also better to drive with RWD.
FWD-cars front wheels have to do both steering and powering car forward. RWD-cars are better in this sense. Even if you lose grip form back wheels you can sort of steer it still.

Problem with RWD-cars is that very few people know what to do when oversteer happens.(like live4speed points out) Driving schools use modern cars that favor FWD. So people dont know that they are different to drive. Again first car for meny people is old RWD. Experience with it can be very negative because of lack of knowledge not because of bad car.

Ideal drive system for snow would be of course 4wd with electronicly controlable diffs.

 

[the Interceptor]

Steap snowy hills are also better to drive with RWD.

How come I see RWDs struggling to go up snowy hills every winter, while FWDs pass them with ease? And how come my Bimmer was near useless last winter with a bit of snow, while my dads and my sisters FWDs didn't have a single problem whatsoever?

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

I actually watched a video a long time ago about this very topic. They had 3 cars start at the bottom of a long hill, each one with a different drive train...FWD, RWD and AWD.

The first one to stop moving and just spin its tires was the RWD. Although weight shifts to the back under when accellerating, the lack of weight over the back wheels and the fact that you slow down while going up hill due to the lack of traction means you'll be stuck in no time.

FWD roared ahead thanks to the majority of the cars weight being on top of the powered wheels. At the small amount of speed most people takes hill at, there is very little shift in weight, therfore the weight stays over the driving wheels allowing them to retain some minor traction.

The AWD was the obvious winner, but since it isn't included in this discussion, it doesn't really matter. Hope this helps.

 

[kikie]

It's better to say; FWD cars are safer not better but safer to drive, snow or no snow.

 

[the Interceptor]

But in snow, they're also better to drive due to more traction at the propelled wheels. Of course, if drifting is your thing, you're better of with a RWD, but for normal road use in snowy conditions, you're better off with a FWD.

 

[Keef]

What's your defintion of "better"? If you think going nowhere and running into a tree when you finally do is fun, then RWD is for you, my friend.[/sarcasm]

If you'd rather not, then FWD is better. With more weight over the drive wheels they get better grip when you accelerate slowly, as to not transfer much weight to the rear. They may brake better too, since that weight is over the main braking wheels--the front. But they don't do good donuts in your school parking lot...

Originally Posted by live4speed
Make that 95%+ of the general driving population. Considering the number of people that do drive, very, very, very few people actually know how to control a car beyond what you have to do daily.

Agreed.

 

[Tornado]

I think it depends what we mean by RWD.
For example, this:

vs. this:

And RWD is just as good in snow as FWD (using the more common examples) so long as you can actually drive. Which sadly, as L4S and backspace have established, isn't too common.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

One of you wanted to test it with his cars. I can't remember who it was, but what I do remember is, that this particular member was no nobody, but either a mod or a longtime member ( 2 or more years )...
He might have been a BMW fan, maybe Mspec ?

So here we are, where is your test ?
YOU (whoever you are ) thought I would forget it, but I didn't ....

I think it was Der Alta. I was actually thinking about that a couple days ago.

 

[the Interceptor]

And RWD is just as good in snow as FWD (using the more common examples) so long as you can actually drive.

I can't agree to that. Setting off on a snowed hill usually is possible with a FWD, where many RWDs (with a front engine) struggle. And there's little you can do about that with driving skills.

 

[Tornado]

I can't agree to that. Setting off on a snowed hill usually is possible with a FWD, where many RWDs (with a front engine) struggle. And there's little you can do about that with driving skills.

Sandbags, perhaps? It works in 2WD pick-up trucks, so I see no reason why it wouldn't work in RWD cars.

 

[the Interceptor]

Sandbags, perhaps? It works in 2WD pick-up trucks, so I see no reason why it wouldn't work in RWD cars.

Of course, you can prepare your RWD car for driving in snow. The FWD can do it without any changes though. And putting sandbags or other heavy stuff in your boot has little to do with if you can drive or not.

 

[Tornado]

Of course, you can prepare your RWD car for driving in snow. The FWD can do it without any changes though. And putting sandbags or other heavy stuff in your boot has little to do with if you can drive or not.

Niether, as you already said, does going up a snowed in hill. My point was about how driving skills can overcome traction problems. You said that driving skills had nothing to do with it, and I offered a way to circumvent the ablity to traverse a snowed-in hill. I never said sandbags had anything to do with driving skill.
Similarly, if you have heavy things in the boot of your FWD car, it can lead to traction problems for the same reason that having things in the truck of a RWD car can help prevent them.

 

[the Interceptor]

Of course, you can prevent all cars from going up a hill if you operate them falsely. And you can prepare both, FWD and RWD cars, to go up a hill as good as possible. Still, from my knowledge and my experiences, RWDs are more likely to get into trouble in normal traffic than FWDs.

 

[Tornado]

Of course, you can prevent all cars from going up a hill if you operate them falsely. And you can prepare both, FWD and RWD cars, to go up a hill as good as possible. Still, from my knowledge and my experiences, RWDs are more likely to get into trouble in normal traffic than FWDs.

Fair enough.

 

[Keef]

Sandbags, perhaps? It works in 2WD pick-up trucks, so I see no reason why it wouldn't work in RWD cars.

You know, I always wondered if there was a better way to weight the rear of a truck. I never thought of a better way, but I got some nifty stuff. I thought it would be cool to fill the spare tire with a lquid, because they're heavy. Antifreeze. And since it actually freezes sooner without water, then it could be a radiator-like mix. I can't see it being possible to fill a tire with sand or something solid via the valve, but it is possible to inject a lquid through it. You could fill it completely full so it didn't slosh around. You'd be out a spare tire, but hey, I think it'd work.

 

[Slicks]

I'm going to go with the general consensus of this thread and say that while a FWD car is easier to drive in the snow, a RWD car is more fun to drive in the snow.
Of course, there is always hidden option three, AWD. Gives great traction when you need it, but can also be easily induced into oversteer.

 

[High-Test]

The last day my lexus was alive, it snowed 6" the day before. God that was fun..


(And no, I didn't wreck it- it had an electrical failure)

 

[Mrs. Famine]

Ok, in my opinion, RWD is better in the snow and this comes from personal experience of 1.9 205 GTi vs 1.8 Eunos Roadster + North Yorkshire Moors.

205 was a bit 'oooo eerrr' 'oooo arrrr ' 'woaaahhh'
Eunos was all the way...

 

[Famine]

My dad would say, from experience of a Mazda MX-3 vs. a Jaguar XJ6, that FWD was better, but the MX-3 is a truely sublime snow car, and the XJ6 had an auto 'box.

Naturally understeer is safer (and kikie makes a good point), so naturally an understeery car is safer when grip diminishes. Better depends on who's driving and, to an extent, what the car is...

 

[slimer90210]

For average people, I would say FWD cars are easier/safer to drive in snow then are front engine RWD cars. Assuming they are engaged in normal driving.

Rear engine rwd cars have as much forward traction in snow as fwd cars but more often then not suffer from lack of front wheel/steering traction.

As for adding weight to the rear of a front engine rwd car to gain traction, I have found this only tends to help if allot of weight is used and only in certain types of snow and only helps forward traction, and if you get the rear end loose and out of control a bit that weight makes bringing it back just a bit tougher... still I do load my 2wd truck to the bedrails with hardwood billets for weight be cause if I don't its very hard to get any traction at all in snow with it.

Of coarse I do greatly prefer my 4wd truck in the winter. (even with the spool out back) but in this discussion that is not relevant.

 

[a6m5]

As someone who hates driving on snow and ice, I have easier time driving FWD cars. But only RWD vehicles I've driven on snow had been trucks and SUVs with 4WD disengaged, so they were heavier, and I'm sure that was an factor, also.

 

[Famine]

A better question would be what would you rather have all of the other idiots on the road driving when it's snowing?

 

[a6m5]

Oh, god. Most of these "idiots" around here all drive big trucks. As long as they can go fast in the snow, they don't care, or realize that their trucks don't stop as well as they "go".

 

[Leonidae]

ability to advance in snowy conditions is pretty much about driving habits and tyres. americans and europeans (yes, even europeans) do bit poorly in snowy conditions, because of the lack of proper winter tyres. and I'm not sure if there's optional winter driving lessons in US. here they are must and included in the price.

 

[Keef]

Oh, god. Most of these "idiots" around here all drive big trucks. As long as they can go fast in the snow, they don't care, or realize that their trucks don't stop as well as they "go".

People often get 4WD cars and trucks so they can go well in the snow. Little do they know, all cars and trucks are already 4 wheel brake, and you can't make that work any better than it already does on ice.