Apparent power reduction.

[tooma]

Hi.

I recently started racing on-line with GT5 and I have been surprised to find myself almost always driving the slowest car on the track in every race, regardless of the PP values and regardless of which car I drive. I have been using a wheel, Fanatec and now a DFGT, on GT3, GT4, Toca 2, Toca 3, and just recently GT5. When racing in Game Mode..no problem, but since I started racing on-line, every car I drive seems underpowered in comparison with the rest of the field. I have read through all the posts here on a thread under the heading "Steering wheel vs controller pad" but this issue is not mentioned anywhere. I am puzzled by this. Any information.....anyone ? Thank you.

 

[MrGrado]

Usually people racing online choose fast cars to drive, if your choosing cars at random to drive, then your going to be slow most of the time. Also, without a good setup on your car, you will also be slow.

 

[amar212]

Check you pedals, you may have brake problem, which is very common for DFP/DFGT wheels.

You should open the base of pedals and check the connectors and on-screen visualisation of the brake-force (vertical red line on the speed-gauge on bumper view).

Another thing could be the fact how many people are prepping their online cars inside PP values with abusing the Engine Limiter. Basically, they upgrade the car to very high HP/PP and then use Engine Limiter to bring down the power/PP while retaining very high torque.

Also be aware that even basic parts-tuning inside some PP values can make a drastic difference in performance (suspension/drivetrain upgrades do not count into PP number despite resulting with serious upgrade in driving characteristics of the vehicle).

If none of the above, I recommend you to test your driving against someone with "Recommended" class of cars for online (have to choose them manually inside Online Options) where all cars have same stock values. Also make SRF OFF and be sure that you use same tyre compound as everybody else.

Good luck!

 

[VBR]

The only way to see how you really measure up against real people is to find a lobby running 'Tuning Prohibited same car races' (aka Spec Races).


👍

 

[Bluntified]

Hi.

I recently started racing on-line with GT5 and I have been surprised to find myself almost always driving the slowest car on the track in every race, regardless of the PP values and regardless of which car I drive. I have been using a wheel, Fanatec and now a DFGT, on GT3, GT4, Toca 2, Toca 3, and just recently GT5. When racing in Game Mode..no problem, but since I started racing on-line, every car I drive seems underpowered in comparison with the rest of the field. I have read through all the posts here on a thread under the heading "Steering wheel vs controller pad" but this issue is not mentioned anywhere. I am puzzled by this. Any information.....anyone ? Thank you.

Just to make sure, are you tuning your cars? Do you tune them yourself AND do you know what you're doing? These are important questions. I don't think anything is wrong with your hardware unless you actually see your brake or throttle gauges (on the screen) show errors; not filling when pedal full depressed etc.

When online, you have to remember that everyone else has their car tuned for maximum performance. I'm not talking about parts that increase HP, I'm talking things like suspension set-ups, LSD etc.

 

[mikecustom]

Hi.

I recently started racing on-line with GT5 and I have been surprised to find myself almost always driving the slowest car on the track in every race, regardless of the PP values and regardless of which car I drive. I have been using a wheel, Fanatec and now a DFGT, on GT3, GT4, Toca 2, Toca 3, and just recently GT5. When racing in Game Mode..no problem, but since I started racing on-line, every car I drive seems underpowered in comparison with the rest of the field. I have read through all the posts here on a thread under the heading "Steering wheel vs controller pad" but this issue is not mentioned anywhere. I am puzzled by this. Any information.....anyone ? Thank you.

The problem is that most people abuse the PP system, If you choose a car near to the PP limit (below or above, it doesn't matter) you'll always be slow, what you have to do is choose a car with a considerably higher PP than the PP limit and detune it to fit the restrictions, it's not your hardware, it's the flawd PP system.

 

[jaycee_xr3]

People uses mostly to over tune all cars, and low the PPR adding weight or lowering HP.
Lowering HP modifies the curve, so his car is faster than the same car equal HP but no tuned.

 

[karelpipa]

I dont like in this case the option to detune your BHP by 50%. 10% is too much even.

 

[Greycap]

Lowering HP modifies the curve, so his car is faster than the same car equal HP but no tuned.

When comparing purely peak power that applies but it's definitely not an absolute fact in PP based racing despite people treating it as such. A car with lots of bhp capping will have more power in the low end, I admit that, but actually less in the top end as the monstrous low end torque will add to the PP number. As long as the driver can shift competitively enough to keep the car in the powerband the uncapped one will be faster thanks to getting more bhp for the same PP as unnecessary torque won't "eat" power potential.

 

[Exorcet]

Another thing could be the fact how many people are prepping their online cars inside PP values with abusing the Engine Limiter. Basically, they upgrade the car to very high HP/PP and then use Engine Limiter to bring down the power/PP while retaining very high torque.

The problem is that most people abuse the PP system, If you choose a car near to the PP limit (below or above, it doesn't matter) you'll always be slow, what you have to do is choose a car with a considerably higher PP than the PP limit and detune it to fit the restrictions, it's not your hardware, it's the flawd PP system.

People uses mostly to over tune all cars, and low the PPR adding weight or lowering HP.
Lowering HP modifies the curve, so his car is faster than the same car equal HP but no tuned.

I dont like in this case the option to detune your BHP by 50%. 10% is too much even.

All great ways to cripple your engine by moving all the power from the high end and spreading it every where so it's useless. "Abusing" the limiter is only going to slow you down.

If you (topic starter) are doing this, don't. Instead remove parts so that you have higher power across the important RPM's (those your gears cover).

Amar mentioned that some parts don't count toward PP, this is important. You basically always need to have racing transmission parts (clutch, flywheel, etc) unless they are specifically banned. The same goes for suspension.

 

[MSTER232]

The only way to see how you really measure up against real people is to find a lobby running 'Tuning Prohibited same car races' (aka Spec Races).


👍

This. If you still finding yourself losing very badly to people in spec races then it's something to do with your driving technique.

 

[eran0004]

Could be lots of things. What kind of "slowest" is it? Is it acceleration? Speed through corners? Top speed?

Also, online drivers are sometimes crazy fast people. Having what appears to be a slower car might not mean that something is wrong, it could just be that you are mortal...

Edit: And I don't think there's such a thing as "abusing the pp system", it's simply trying to make the most of the regulations and that is common practice in all racing. The number doesn't guarantee that the cars are equal, it's just a limitation and then it's up to you to tune your car to make it as competitive a possible.

Oh, and this is my 944th post. Have to be celebrated with a Porsche

 

[White & Nerdy]

I'd suspect limiter abuse.

 

[CJSpencer77]

Check you pedals, you may have brake problem, which is very common for DFP/DFGT wheels.

You should open the base of pedals and check the connectors and on-screen visualisation of the brake-force (vertical red line on the speed-gauge on bumper view).

^ The brake sticking on is a common problem and like Amar has said just look out for red line on your brake meter blipping on without you touching the brake, if this is happening its an easy fix, take your pedals case apart and spray the pots ( the white disc like things ) with some contact cleaner and it will fix the issues.

The other thing is PP doesnt work, whatever the settings of the room there is always 3-4 cars that will dominate.

e.g.
550pp road cars = use the M3 CSL or the Type R NSX
600pp GT 500 = use an older NSX like the Takata dome or the Mobile 1
etc. etc.

which means with PP half the battle is finding what cars to use where also the combination of parts you use will matter as well.

Other than this, GT5s online physics is different to offline so you wont be as quick as you were offline, but stick with it, without online i woud have stopped playing GT5 a long time ago.

P.S. race some same spec cars, prohibited tune or a recomended car in an online room and you will soon know if it your car choice or your wheel.

 

[esoxhntr]

All great ways to cripple your engine by moving all the power from the high end and spreading it every where so it's useless. "Abusing" the limiter is only going to slow you down.

If you (topic starter) are doing this, don't. Instead remove parts so that you have higher power across the important RPM's (those your gears cover).
.

Agreed 100%

"abusing" the limiter will result in a car slower than the same car with parts removed to attain the same PP level on most (if not all) tracks.

hp = tq * rpm / 5252, tq = hp / rpm * 5252. thus, if you are limiting HP, you are also limiting torque -- and at racing RPMs to boot. you can see it plain as day in the power graph in gt5.

It *can* be useful for cars with an extremely peaky HP curve to flatten it out but even then to a max of 5-7% or so. none of my cars are limited to more than 1-2% and if anyone here has raced me online, they know I am usually near the top.

 

[Z1-AV69]

From my experience using the limiter to have a flatline maxpower powerband over all (or most of) the rpms you actually use gives the quickest car. Even if this means your max power may be somewhat lower than what would be possible. Then you setup your gearbox to use exactly that range in every gear.

Another factor may be weight though. There are many ways to reach a specific PP. Usually there is one level of power and weight which is quickest. It may not be lowest weight or highest power, not even best power/weight ratio, you'll have to tune several cars to find out for each of them.

 

[Jaywalker]

*Starts thread asking for help*

************************

*Vanishes off into the blue...*

 

[Ronald6]

Check you pedals, you may have brake problem, which is very common for DFP/DFGT wheels.

You should open the base of pedals and check the connectors and on-screen visualisation of the brake-force (vertical red line on the speed-gauge on bumper view).

Before you "open the base" check to see if your wire connections are fully connected and snug.

I had a problem for a couple of weeks with my DFGT, the brake would stay on 2-5% after I took my foot off. I tried everything and was about to return the wheel when I miraculously cured the problem by removing and reinserting the pedal connection into the wheel base.

Simple before complex.

I doubt it's your hardware. I agree with many of the above posts: it's tour tune. Check out the tuning forum.

 

[tooma]

My thanks to all of you who have responded to my question. All of you have given me genuine considered answers which I do appreciate. I have taken on board what everyone has said as everyone has kept their responses relevant.

I have checked my pedals as advised and they seem OK. I have partipated in one two lap race of the 24 hour Nurburgring, a same car head to head with me driving a stock car from the GT5 on-line garage, the blue Calsonic Skyline, and we had a really great fast race with me just getting pipped at the finish line. This proved several points to me; my wheel and pedals are OK, I have a lot to learn about fine tuning the cars, the Calsonic Skyline from stock is a great car, it is big and the width took some getting used to, and I'm not quite as bad at the driving as I was beginning to think I was and of course I still have plenty to learn about improving my driving. It was also great to be in an on-line race without getting battered all over the track. I think the feel of the cars is better off-line, but racing against real opponents is a lot more fun and a lot more exciting, and, a lot more difficult. I am learning, which I find is making the game more interesting, especially now that I am beginning to get to know some other racers, getting to know some rooms where there is a better standard of racing behaviour, and I am making some on-line friends.

Since putting into practice, well trying to, what I have learned from you my results on the track have improved considerably. I have finished middle to fourth in several races, a couple of thirds, and I have even won some races where the field has been smaller; won two head to heads last night, not same cars. I also finished last a few times where I found my cars to be easily the slowest on track, but I have a better understanding of the why's and wherefore's now so it does not bother me the same as it did before I asked my question and received your answer

Again, my thanks to all. Hope to meet you on the track some time.

Best wishes, Tooma.