Appeal to the FIA to force PD to correct track limits and kerbs in GT7

  • Thread starter mattikake
  • 58 comments
  • 8,054 views
860
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Grand Valley... it does my head in as I know it does for many people. Ok so I'm slowly learning where the track limits are but the problem is the game is inconsistent. Some tracks you can abuse them, others not.

I actually had a read of the FIA sporting regulations and discovered GT7 is not compliant with several of them and that the regs imply they apply to all tracks real or simulated. Many of their fictional tracks should not have been approved by the FIA - they should not exist as they are.

The FIA should never have partnered with PD, and pulling out of the affiliation due to online issues should actually be an aside.

This video I have sent to an FIA rep in the UK explains the detail.

My aim is to get GT7 fixed and fair.



Oh and this covers only 2 regs breaches. I have noticed 3 more.
 
This is one of those dare to dream things. I've been screaming about this since GT5. I can only speculate as to why PD has them setup this way. If, they were to fill in those inside areas up to the track and flatten the strips (which I 100% agree with you on, great vid btw), in order to make it fair, they'd have to really increase the penalties even more than they are now because of the massive amount of time you could gain on some of the turns. To which PD believe their fanbase is 'beginners with controllers', would sour them too much and make people not want to play it. However, in doing this, they've made it worse because with how the strips are now, people always take the risk with the car getting unsettled causing more wrecks like you said. Compound that with lots of cars, varying degrees of skill (no matter what rank you are) and, well, is why I never drive online anymore.

All that, versus, just simply follow the white line, calmer strips and yes you will get penalized hard, but you'll learn your lesson (hopefully) and it will more organically force drivers to stay within boundaries. I have always thought since the first time I did the CE for Dragon Trail Seaside that they should do this and in fact make it slightly tighter, more similar to Monaco after you come out of the tunnel.

GL, I for one would love to see the change happen, but the realist in me says 'GL, bro'.


Jerome
 
Last edited:
I actually had a read of the FIA sporting regulations and discovered GT7 is not compliant with several of them and that the regs imply they apply to all tracks real or simulated. Many of their fictional tracks should not have been approved by the FIA - they should not exist as they are.
It's a video game. I'd rather racing video game designers be allowed to have creativity and fun with their track designs rather than have every single racer devolve into the same stale FIA-standard tracks.
 
I... I honestly don't even know where to start with this. I've had a long think but the best I can come up with is four lines.

The FIA has nothing whatsoever to do with the development of Gran Turismo 7.
The FIA had nothing whatsoever to do with the fictional tracks of Gran Turismo Sport.
The FIA had nothing whatsoever to do with the penalty system of Gran Turismo Sport.
The FIA had nothing whatsoever to do with the track limits of Gran Turismo Sport.

I don't know where this whole idea has come from. Maybe it's a misunderstanding of the FIA certifying (some of) the real circuits in GT6/Sport - where it was basically PR about the accuracy of the layouts - or that the FIA partnered with Gran Turismo in GT Sport for the WS and MG events on the basis of recognising the fact that the penalty system was a matrix with decisions rather than a prescriptive system.



“Fantasy tracks is something completely different. We leave Gran Turismo with that, and we feel that’s right.”

Either way though... the FIA isn't partnered with GT for GT7, and I don't know what they're supposed to do about whatever this complaint about track limits is.

Aside from anything else, the notion of "correct" track limits is... fundamentally broken. There's no such thing: track limits are different from corner to corner, from series to series, from race to race, and from session to session, at the same circuit on the same weekend.

They're determined by the race stewards and communicated to the drivers in the briefing - and may be amended over the course of the event, depending on how whiny the drivers are and how fighty the stewards are. Now, while we don't get the communication part (the only way to know is trial and error; I wish it was made more clear: CE would be ideal for AR overlays to show you, although not every track has a CE, or a toggled optional under driving assists), the fact is track limits in real life are highly mutable and not a fixed, correct thing.

There's this ridiculous notion, often presented by motorsport fans who can read a rulebook but have no familiarity with how a race weekend actually works, that the white lines are the de jure track limits. They are not. The white lines only mark the track limits if you don't know or it hasn't been stated where they are. This is what the oft-quoted "for the avoidance of doubt" actually means: if you have any doubt about the track limits at a particular point, it's the white lines.


Petitioning the FIA, on the basis of a misunderstanding of its regulations, to look at something it doesn't handle, in a subset of things it doesn't handle, about a circuit it has nothing to do with, in a game it doesn't endorse and force - force - a change, is truly, truly baffling. It's like complaining to TAG Heuer about the obviously incorrect electronic lap counter at Goodwood.
 
It's a video game. I'd rather racing video game designers be allowed to have creativity and fun with their track designs rather than have every single racer devolve into the same stale FIA-standard tracks.
It's more than just game, it's also (was/might be again) an officially approved FIA ESports platform.

What makes a sport a sport are rules that are consistently applied and a steadfast adherence to them. Bodies like the FIA exist exactly for this reason or you'd just end up with a children's playground brawl.
 
Sorry Matti, but...they are not gonna listen.

I admit, I have trouble with track limits too...however, usually that's from me going too wide or too much to the inside. Ergo, my own mistake.

And while I wish some track limits didn't exist (like going wide in the exit of the Daytona chicane), there's nothing I can do about it except suck it up and carry less speed/improve the trajectory next time.
 
34537f05816bca3f525f6c8859e4aba6.gif
 
You do you of course, but instead of channeling your energy towards battling against windmills and harbouring negative thoughts, it would be more productive to adapt to the current rules in the game.

I've not driven Grand Valley for more than maybe 20 laps and even I learned to NOT TOUCH THE SAND.
 
I just wish it's consistent instead of varying from track to track, or even corner to corner. Sometimes even the same corner, like the chicanes at Le Mans, can have different track limits on the entry/apex/exit. It just looks dumb on replays when cars take unrealistic lines or just make a mockery of the whole corner (Maggiore GP turn 4 apex, Dragon Trail Gardens triple chicane, and Barcelona chicane comes to mind). It forces you to memorise pixel by pixel where you can and cannot cut to get the optimal laptime. How different is this from memorising racing lines and braking points you ask? Well those 2 are bounded by physics. Track limits are arbitrary. Just pick a consistent rule and stick with it. Either 2 wheels within white lines or 2 wheels on curbs at all times (GTP WRS rule). No need for "Normal" or "Championship" track limits. Also no need 2 settings for the track edge grip reduction. It should always be set to "Real".

Cutting sausage kerbs also won't be an issue if we have realistic suspension/floor damage affecting handling and aero as the race progresses, but PD can't even get physics right so this opens up a whole other layer of complication entirely.

Either way I won't be challenging the top times, but at least it gives a consistent experience and I'm not wondering why I just lost 0.5 sec on one corner just because I completely "missed" the game's interpretation of what an apex is.
 
Last edited:
I noticed another regulation breach.

Screenshot_20230605-090536_Samsung Notes.jpg


Where do I report myself?

On the points raised. The track limits in GT7 are essentially 2 wheels on the track but curbs are included as part of the track. Follow that and you won't really go wrong. There are a few exceptions (Le Sarthe for example) but not many others.

Finally, if you lose control of your car by bouncing over the curbs then don't bounce your car over the curbs.
 
Hold on, the original poster may be on to something here. I’ll try to contact Bathurst council to force PD to move the ingame finish line to where the real life finish line is. Yeah.






…On second thought, this is a New South Wales council I’m mentioning. If you think “PD Soon™" takes eons, you ain’t seen Australian council in inaction.
 
Half the problem with the part of your video complaining about the Grand Valley track limits is that you cut out the actual part where you cross the track limits. So it basically just shows nothing but you getting a penalty.
Propaganda is a powerful tool.
 
I... I honestly don't even know where to start with this. I've had a long think but the best I can come up with is four lines.

The FIA has nothing whatsoever to do with the development of Gran Turismo 7.
The FIA had nothing whatsoever to do with the fictional tracks of Gran Turismo Sport.
The FIA had nothing whatsoever to do with the penalty system of Gran Turismo Sport.
The FIA had nothing whatsoever to do with the track limits of Gran Turismo Sport.

I don't know where this whole idea has come from. Maybe it's a misunderstanding of the FIA certifying (some of) the real circuits in GT6/Sport - where it was basically PR about the accuracy of the layouts - or that the FIA partnered with Gran Turismo in GT Sport for the WS and MG events on the basis of recognising the fact that the penalty system was a matrix with decisions rather than a prescriptive system.





Either way though... the FIA isn't partnered with GT for GT7, and I don't know what they're supposed to do about whatever this complaint about track limits is.

Aside from anything else, the notion of "correct" track limits is... fundamentally broken. There's no such thing: track limits are different from corner to corner, from series to series, from race to race, and from session to session, at the same circuit on the same weekend.

They're determined by the race stewards and communicated to the drivers in the briefing - and may be amended over the course of the event, depending on how whiny the drivers are and how fighty the stewards are. Now, while we don't get the communication part (the only way to know is trial and error; I wish it was made more clear: CE would be ideal for AR overlays to show you, although not every track has a CE, or a toggled optional under driving assists), the fact is track limits in real life are highly mutable and not a fixed, correct thing.

There's this ridiculous notion, often presented by motorsport fans who can read a rulebook but have no familiarity with how a race weekend actually works, that the white lines are the de jure track limits. They are not. The white lines only mark the track limits if you don't know or it hasn't been stated where they are. This is what the oft-quoted "for the avoidance of doubt" actually means: if you have any doubt about the track limits at a particular point, it's the white lines.


Petitioning the FIA, on the basis of a misunderstanding of its regulations, to look at something it doesn't handle, in a subset of things it doesn't handle, about a circuit it has nothing to do with, in a game it doesn't endorse and force - force - a change, is truly, truly baffling. It's like complaining to TAG Heuer about the obviously incorrect electronic lap counter at Goodwood.
A bit of inside info is always useful.

I guess you missed the fun of it.
Petitioning the FIA is fun and it's already been done. Not much to say beyond the video other than, yes I am aware this is likely a fruitless exercise, but what the hell?

The problem with the irl stewarding overriding the FIA default definition, is that GT7 doesn't have any stewards. Which makes all that a moot point. The game has to take over. And an algorithm has the potential to be much more consistent than a human steward.

The screenshot I have at then end of the video explicitly says that the FIA have approved the tracks. Their regs are for them, for everyone else and for consistency. If they're not going to enforce them, then what's the point (Abu Dhabi 2021 ho-hum)?

Their regs imply that if an FIA race is to be held at a circuit then the circuit needs to be approved and their regs applied. And no mention of SIM or real. The FIA ESports championships were FIA races. Their own regs imply the regs have to be enforced.

Let's face it, the track limits are inconsistent and some of the kerbs are laughable. GT seems to be a running joke among real world commentators and drivers.

Why should it be when it's fixable?

(Not you) but suggesting avoiding the kerbs to avoid a bouce lottery is not a solution when everyone else can use them and you want to compete.

What would be nice would be a more realistic track limits implementation - warnings before a (large) penalty. Granted, probably a bit hard for a 3 lap race... But iracing manages it.
 
Back