Appreciating Older Automobiles

[JohnBM01]

Many of us who are into newer cars usually have a tough time appreciating older models. This topic came about from my Gran Turismo 4 gameplay, and I have really been thinking. With many of the older cars in Gran Turismo 4 such as the Peugeot 205, Ginetta G4, Renault Maxi 5, Datsun 240Z, Mercury Cougar (1967), and such, some fans of newer cars may not be able to actually appreciate older cars. My last automotive appreciation thread was about respecting all kinds of automobiles, but this time, it's about some of our older models. I guess for the sake of this argument, I will likely define "older automobile" as any vehicle made before 1/1/2001. So a 1999-model Corvette C5 is perfectly legal as an "older vehicle. However, a 2001-model Subaru Impreza won't count. This is NOT a Gran Turismo 4 topic, though I'm mentioning it. How can a driver of a 2005 Ford Mustang appreciate a 1964 Ford Mustang? How can a 2003 Porsche 911 driver appreciate a Porsche 924? Or how can a Ferrari 360 Modena owner appreciate a model such as the Ferrari Testarossa? In other words, how can a modern car driver appreciate older cars?

I'll provide some personal examples to this topic in a future post.

 

[Ev0]

Any true automotive enthusiast has to be able to appreciate older cars. After all, if it wasn't for the excellent vehicles of yesteryear, we wouldn't have the amazing cars we have today.

 

[donbenni]

The topic seems kinda strange, i don't think i really follow. You seem to be suggesting that most people don't like appreciate old cars and if you like new cars, you probably don't like old cars.
I don't think i know anyone that dislikes old cars if they like a newer model i.e. Porsches.

In fact if i drove a 2005 Mustang and liked it, i would feel indebted to the '64 Mustang.

 

[Super Jamie]

an "old" car is not 2001 i would say "new" is 1990s onwards. cars in the late 70s and 80s usually fall into "****box" territory, the era of cheap plastic. i think "old" cars start in the 70s, and you get "classic" around mid 60s, then "veteran" and "vintage" earlier than that (these actually have time period definitions)

but how can you NOT like old cars!? older cars have more style and individual personality, they aren't the same as all the other crap out there like new cars, and old cars (mid 1970s and earlier) were usually BUILT TO A QUALITY instead of a BUILT TO A PRICE, so for what they are, they've very well made

i like wrxs and skylines and rx7s, but my heart lies with older cars. as you can see in my signature below, i own and drive an old modified car. just about all my friends drive newer cars, but they still like my car, and i like theirs. we just wouldn't own each others' cars

some of them even own both, my best mate owns a 99 wrx, and a 1962 mini. he also has a 1974 mazda 929 (rx4 shape) that he wants to do up when he gets more cash. i don't think there isn't a car enthusiast out there who doesn't want an old mustang gt500 like elanor, but the fact they're so expensive and rare makes it hard. maintenance on an old car is also a killer. maybe alot of new car owners want old cars but don't have the money or knowledge or means or time or space?

 

[daan]

It's not mutually exclusive. You can appreciate/like/dislike both.

 

[misnblu]

I've seen many times that some people just don't like the older muscle cars or old cars in general.
Most old school muscle car guys hate the 4bangers and the Sport Compact crowds dislike the old school guys/ cars too.
I think the argument will continue as long as there are different generations of car enthusiasts.
Me, I love all cars.
Having grown up in the middle of the muscle car era, learned what made them "muscle" over the look alikes and wannabees.
Having owned one and restored it, had a passion to learn more about cars in general and when relegated to buying a Honda Civic after my '66 was destroyed in a freak storm, took it (the Honda) to new heights of performance that at the time seemed nonsense to most.
I'm now recognizes locally as being one of the first Sport Compact enthusiasts in the area by my peers in my car club and other car clubs in my area.
There will always be that generation gap of followers of cars but the true enthusiast will always be the one to grasp what can be made of what you have, appreciating it and having the ability to make it better than it was. That is a car enthusiast.
As to the issue of the post, I can respect the older cars but with todays technology, will take new over old any day. That doesn't mean that I dislike the old cars though. They are history and what our new cars were derived from.
Misnblu

 

[skip0110]

I've seen many times that some people just don't like the older muscle cars or old cars in general.
Most old school muscle car guys hate the 4bangers and the Sport Compact crowds dislike the old school guys/ cars too.
I think the argument will continue as long as there are different generations of car enthusiasts.

As you said, the strong opinions are usually held by the "fad" followers--right now that would be the Pro Touring crowd--basically the people who only like the type of car you see being built on Overhaulin' and the like.

True hot rodders appreciate every vehicle--from a 500 ci Caddy to a Hayabusa.

 

[misnblu]

True hot rodders appreciate every vehicle--from a 500 ci Caddy to a Hayabusa.

So true. 👍 👍
Misnblu

 

[blargonator]

yeah i notice my car was mentioned! 924!! <8- D anyways....i love old massive cars, they have such a presence it fills me with glee. i actually almost got a 196X buick electra. that thing was gorgeous and i wish i could have one still. the frame had rusted through and it was not safe at all so it was destroyed except the tranny and engine. it was just gigantic with its hood bigger than some cars today and a huge engine with a nice long "bench" style seat (brain fart- i can't think of the right word). i like just about anything with wheels from hayabusas to aston martins in general <8- )

 

[JohnBM01]

The primary focus is to talk about how some people can learn to apppreciate older cars regardless of whether they like them or not.

My example of appreciating older cars comes from having played Gran Turismo games. The Lancia Delta was never really one of my favorites. I thought it was an ugly duckling with no power at first. But I appreciate it now because the machine is awesome. It was perhaps around before I even became interested in cars (circa 1998). Even if I lived in its native Italy, I probably wouldn't appreciate its wonderful handling or its rally success. Lancia already had some great success with the mid-engined Stratos in rally. I believe it won the championship three years straight in the 1970s.

Or maybe I'm just speaking for the "kids." You know, those who won't appreciate or slightly appreciate older cars. For example, if you're going to love a 2005 Ford Mustang, how can you not know or care about the Shelby GT350? Because if that's true, then you're not going to APPRECIATE older cars, since a lot of the styling harks back to the Mustang of the old days. That was just a small example. But how can ANYONE appreciate older cars, especially those who don't really prefer older models?

 

[Cano]

As you said, the strong opinions are usually held by the "fad" followers--right now that would be the Pro Touring crowd--basically the people who only like the type of car you see being built on Overhaulin' and the like.

True hot rodders appreciate every vehicle--from a 500 ci Caddy to a Hayabusa.

WISE.

Now, for apreciating old cars, I can see where are you coming from, John. a LOT of people don't really know what it's like to own and drive an old car and they think its a different experience than driving their new Jetta. It certainly is, but they also seem to find it frightening and most people wouldn't even want to try. oh boy, what they are missing. Lately, working for the magazine and having my own car website has allowed me to meet MANY vintage car owners, and I have driven some of them. I have enjoyed the experiences a lot, and it has made my love for old cars grow a damn lot, even if I do like modernizing an old car and all that stuff, I have never felt anything like shifting the hurst 4-speed on my friend's Dodge Dart GTS 318, or feeling getting smashed HARD in the seat by the 700 hp of another friend's 68 Firebird... feeling the Gs in a track-prepped 1970 Road Runner, taking a cruise on a 67 Mustang ragtop, cruising around in a 1950 ford woodie, and of course, taking a ride on a 1970 Super Bee, a car that has been one of the inspirations for me to get my Coronet. There is nothing like it and now I'd really want to have a stash of money and go shopping for some cool old cars, american and european alike. Experiencing old cars is the best way to apreciate them and love them, if you ever can hit a ride in any old car, hell, do so, you'll have a ball. if you have an old car, take other people for a ride, talk with people, let people take pictures. that helps, too.

Cano

 

[McLaren]

Doing this is impossible for kids at my school, or teens at Auto Shows. Some though will only go back to 1990 and that's a few, and the rest go back to '95.

Anything in the 70's or 80's is inferior to they're "cars" which are nothing but imports being "modded" or economy cars.

 

[Schtopper]

I recently got given a Jeremy Clarkson DVD called - Hot Metal. It is basically all about exactly what you getting, how do todays cars compare directly to yesteryears cars. He looks at a wide range of cars and compares various things, from top speed, acceleration, handling, noise and over all appeal.

Anyone who doesn't appreciate older cars really needs to see this and i garauntee you it will open your eyes to how good some of those older cars really are.

I love the engine noise comparison, he sits about 600 - 700 yards away from the track and various cars fly down it at full chat as you listen to the engine and exhaust roar. He starts off with some modern cars, the zonda, fantastic sound, the new viper, again a real beefy growl to it and finally the Merc McLaren SLR which sounds like a spitfire flying past, he then makes some comment about how todays cars certainly do sound impressive, just as they cut to a Ford Mustang GT500 flying past, showing that the old boys still give the young 'uns a run for their money.

The XJ220 drag run against todays top super cars is also very impressive to watch.

So i say, how does todays drivers appreciate older cars? They just need to look back and do a comparison.

 

[Velocity]

an "old" car is not 2001 i would say "new" is 1990s onwards. cars in the late 70s and 80s usually fall into "****box" territory, the era of cheap plastic. i think "old" cars start in the 70s, and you get "classic" around mid 60s, then "veteran" and "vintage" earlier than that (these actually have time period definitions)

but how can you NOT like old cars!? older cars have more style and individual personality, they aren't the same as all the other crap out there like new cars, and old cars (mid 1970s and earlier) were usually BUILT TO A QUALITY instead of a BUILT TO A PRICE, so for what they are, they've very well made

i like wrxs and skylines and rx7s, but my heart lies with older cars. as you can see in my signature below, i own and drive an old modified car. just about all my friends drive newer cars, but they still like my car, and i like theirs. we just wouldn't own each others' cars

some of them even own both, my best mate owns a 99 wrx, and a 1962 mini. he also has a 1974 mazda 929 (rx4 shape) that he wants to do up when he gets more cash. i don't think there isn't a car enthusiast out there who doesn't want an old mustang gt500 like elanor, but the fact they're so expensive and rare makes it hard. maintenance on an old car is also a killer. maybe alot of new car owners want old cars but don't have the money or knowledge or means or time or space?

I agree with most of this but the part about maintenance. Personally I have found repairs on newer cars to be way more expensive than older stuff. I mean for example we picked up an old rebuilt 727 transmission for our '68 Polara for $300 bucks. A replacement tranny for most average new cars is well over a $1000!

Tires are another example in some cases. The tires for my old man's SHO are like $300 + a tire! You can get much cheaper tires for standard rims.

If anything breaks or dies in a newer car, esepically anything electronic your screwed! Call a toe truck. I hope you have a good road side membership account. With the older stuff you could still get under the hood and diagnose the problem yourself and possibly rig a temporary fix.

I think the advancements new cars have are truly excellent, but only if you can afford the up keep and don't mind being shafted for repairs everytime some little sensor or something dies.

The older stuff is much easier to maintain, albeit harder to locate parts in some cases. The hardware and drivetrains are over built most times allowing you to hop the car up with no upgrades to tranny or differentials ect.

In case it wasn't evident, ya I appreciate older cars. My Unicorn is a '68 '70 or '69 Dodge Charger.

 

[Super Jamie]

what you say is true, and it is definately harder to fix a new car yourself, but hopefully a new car won't break on you, and old car is likely to need alot of maintenance, and constantly

i personally can fix my car myself, i've had most of the moving and important parts out, apart and back together, most renewed, modified or improved in some way. it's been at the stage where it's reliable enough to just drive and not worry about for a fair while now, but it took a bit of time, effort and cash to get there

old cars rock

 

[Omnis]

i love old cars, both irl and in gt4.

 

[High-Test]

Both of my cars (technically I have 2... at 16) are more than 10 years old, but a 1992 SC300 isn't old. My 1960 Chevrolet biscayne is. They both are white, 2 door, rear wheel drive coupes, but that's where the similarities end. The lexus' turn signal goes back to neutral after the turn is done, the chevy's keeps blinking. The lexus has power seats, well, go figure. The chevy doesn't. they are 32 years apart in age, which is an instant in Geological time, but when it comes down to it, they are technologically eons apart. the lexus can start up in 20 degree weather and hit the road. The chevy has to sit and warm up, If you even get it started. And, as Velocity said, the older cars are cheaper to fix. I can buy a headlight for the Chevy dirt cheap. the lexus' headlight had condensation in it, and the dealer wanted $1000 to fix it. that's 1/3 the value of the car. (we did get it fixed for 100) Old cars are usually cooler looking, and I think I'll have a greater appreciation for old cars once I'm done fixing up my biscayne after this summer.

 

[Drifting Thunda]

I like old and new, and appreciate both in various ways.

Some of my favorite older cars in GT4 include the '67 Merc kitty and the '78 Datsun 280ZL. The list is too long to post though but I really like to keep an open mind and I love all sorts of cars old and new, from several nations. I must note I really love how the styles of vehicles has progressed so much through time, yet I can still look at old and new and say, "wow, that's a sexy car!" It's very interesting looking at older cars and wondering what people thought about them when they were new.

 

[slimer90210]

How can a driver of a 2005 Ford Mustang appreciate a 1964 Ford Mustang?

The 1964 1/2 Mustang laid the ground work for an entirely new classification of car, the pony car. 1/2 sport car, 1/2 passenger car the ponycar has been the vehical of choice for young people that want to go fast and have fun but still need to be able to seat more then 2 poeple and carry a few medium sized items from time to time. I think a 2005 Mustang driver drives a Mustang for many of the same reasons a 1964 1/2 Mustang driver drives his/her car, its fast its fun, and its alot cheaper and more practical then a Vette or a Viper.

How can a 2003 Porsche 911 driver appreciate a Porsche 924?

Porshe is one of the best companies at learning from what they have done in the past and applying to to the cars they are building. Without the 924 the curent 911 would likely not be the caliber car that it is. Without the knowlege gained by Porshe through building and racing the 924 they would probably not have been able to refine subsiquent modles as well as they have. So while the 924 my not be as refined or perform as well as a 2003 911 the knowledge gained from the 924 was big contributer to the 911's performance and refinement.

Or how can a Ferrari 360 Modena owner appreciate a model such as the Ferrari Testarossa?

Much the same reasons given for the Porshe only with Ferrari each car has its own attitude and style and many people do not look at older Ferraris as older cars but rather as another attitude in the Ferrari stable.

To add a make and model to the topic, I believe New Corvette owners are the most into the history and evolution of their cars. I have talked to many new Vette owners that have owned a Vette from every generation of Vette and have loved them all.

 

[slimer90210]

True hot rodders appreciate every vehicle--from a 500 ci Caddy to a Hayabusa.

More truth has never been put in a single sentence. But why is it that Hot Rodders like any car? Is it because by nature they just like to make whatever they have faster and more powerfull? or Is it some deeper connection with all things motorized?

 

[xcsti]

More truth has never been put in a single sentence. But why is it that Hot Rodders like any car? Is it because by nature they just like to make whatever they have faster and more powerfull? or Is it some deeper connection with all things motorized?

I believe that true hot rodders know that everyone starts in a different situation car wise, be it a beat civic or an old ford coupe, and naturally wants to improve it. They realize that every car, with the proper amount of time and effort, can be turned into a beautiful piece.

 

[JohnBM01]

Drifting, you're the first person I know who calls a Mercury Cougar a Mercury "Kitty." I'm sure plenty of cat lovers will want a Cougar in their garage now...

Even today's hot rodders (especially those around my current age of 22) are into stuff like Civics, Accords, and almost anything cool on wheels. I think some of our current tuner culture kind of like older cars. Some of the more common choices for cool cars in their choices of cool cars range from a 1980s Corolla, a 240SX, or one of my favorites, the Datsun 240Z. I think I've even seen a nice 1970s Toyota Celica that I thought was a little known American muscle car at first while I was reading a car magazine.

I try to appreciate as many cars as I can. Anything from a 1960s Camaro with a crate motor, to a sporty Honda S2000, all the way up to the almighty McLaren F1. During the Barrett-Jackson auction in Scotsdale, AZ, USA this year, I seen perhaps my new favorite Corvette- the 'Vettes from 1958. It's a very lovely Corvette, but I still like the Sting Ray Corvettes as well. I look at the C6 Corvette, and all I like about it is the power. I don't really like its looks (but I keep changing my mind from different angles of the machine), but it is pretty cool to be in. I know what it's like in one, having sampled the inside of it at this year's Houston Auto Show.

So I guess for some others my age, I don't think I've heard or seen anyone who'd rather drive a 2000+ Mustang over some of the first Mustangs. So maybe in terms of muscle car afficionados, it's not very hard to respect older American autos, except maybe if you own a 1998 Mercury Cougar and don't like the Cougar featured in Gran Turismo 4 (forgot which one).

 

[slimer90210]

I believe that true hot rodders know that everyone starts in a different situation car wise, be it a beat civic or an old ford coupe, and naturally wants to improve it. They realize that every car, with the proper amount of time and effort, can be turned into a beautiful piece.

Do you make the distinction between Hot Rodders and Street Rodders?

***The following is just my opinion and not a judgement or a slam***

A Hot Rodder is a person that cares more about how the car preforms and is not too worried about if it looks perfect. If it doesn't make the car perform better it doesn't belong on the car. The hot rodders creed: 'Its not what you drive its that you drive it.'

A Street Rodder is a person that wants a fast car but is willing to sacrifice some performance to have a car that looks cool and has some creature comforts. Most Street Rodders I know spend more time cleaning their car then they do driving it.

Just the distinction in my mind...

 

[Sniffs]

at least someone had the distinctions correct in the one case. 70's and 80's manufactured vehicles are considered peices of junk, and go straight to the Yard. 60's are now put up. 50's end up as trailer queens or chopped into 'rods...anything below that now hides in Museums as they're worth loads unless the're a model t (there's 15 million of em) or a Model A.

I'd rather have an "odd Rod"...like taking something from the late 70's or early eighties that isn't a camaro/vette/firebird/mustang (IE:the pony car group) and turning it into a sleeper.

 

[JohnBM01]

When it comes to your comparison of hot rods to street rods, slimer, some people say that most of the sport compact tuners are hot rodding these compacts. If "traditional" hot rodders don't care about looks, why do you think some of the hot-rodding tuner car fans tune for looks AS WELL AS performance?