Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
Mr. Obama is carefully looking for his nads.
Arab spring uprises Tunisia/Egypt/Libya/Syria
- Thread starter Vince_Fiero
- 975 comments
- 62,362 views
Mr. Obama is carefully looking for his nads.
WeinerSchnitzel
(Banned)
- 1,179
- GTP_W-Schnitzel
Yeah, that's called being a scumbag.
blaaah
(Banned)
- 1,078
Your friends must be bland.
Having good friends you can have good arguments.
But the point we are talking about is you think for some reason it is wrong to take issue with a countries foreign policy and then ask that country for help. You have not given a logical reason why this is wrong.
The international community would cease to function if they had that attitude. Differences must be expressed and shared interests built upon.
Having good friends you can have good arguments.
But the point we are talking about is you think for some reason it is wrong to take issue with a countries foreign policy and then ask that country for help. You have not given a logical reason why this is wrong.
The international community would cease to function if they had that attitude. Differences must be expressed and shared interests built upon.
- 15,529
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Your so called claims for Human rights is being tested ,Mubarak is a Tyrant and a Murderer Yes Obama is doing nothing (or not enough of something)and yes that is what I slammed him for.If you don't care for Human rights just say it ,enough "Monitering" But I suppose you don't fear for a foreign country as much as a local would (and why should you)so I don't see how your post is helpful in anyway.
I do slam his lack of action and still plead him to take a more firm action what is wrong with that exactly ?
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Unlikely... Obama is looking at the ramifications of a fundamentalist Islaamic takeover of the Sinai region and the borders of the Suez canal.
Military/political instability along the Suez Canal threatens (to quote the Blues Brothers) you, me, everybody.
There's also the fact that Israel and the US share close political ties with a strong Jewish vote in the American North East.
Obama would be a fool to his people and his economy if he simply called for the (comparatively) moderate Egyptian president to resign immediately. The US needs to maintain diplomacy with Egypt, Tunisia and Jordan.
The same is true of the UK and the EU to a smaller extent, but still true.
The US itself has managed to rid itself of a Christian Fundamentalist president who condoned torture and extra-ordinary rendition and knows that it has to be careful when throwing stones so close to the glass house it has just emerged from!
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
All you say is true! Balanced against this is the siren appeal of democracy, freedom and merciful escape from our hypocrisy of supporting dictators.
- 353
- irishfan311
So what do we do? If we support your revolution and some crazy US hating fundamentalist dictator comes into power, a new boiling pot of anti-US terrorism is started. If we don't support your revolution, the Egyptian people hate the US more and a new boiling pot of anti-US terrorism is started.
You see the dilemma? It's just better if you guys handle this revolution on your own while the people of the US wait patiently for some Egyptian radical to detonate a dirty bomb in a US subway.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
The problem is all our big talk about democracy, self-determination, human and civil rights that we've been spouting for decades. Is it real or is it BS?
Do we support dictators or do we support oppressed people?
The ugly truth is, we usually support those dictators who side with us, and support oppressed peoples whose dictators don't side with us. Another word for this is hypocrisy.
- 678
- BrutherSuperior
I think the wrong question was asked.
What is in the best interest of the United States and its regional assets? That's a better question IMO.
If it's in the interest of the US to support a tin-pot dictator...so be it. The problem with democracy in that region is the islamist influence. Democracy according to islam is the root of many issues as it might give people a vote, but does little to promote freedom, peace, and squelch jihad. Look at Iran, they have 'voting rights' even though the mullahs run the show. It's a theocracy and the same may happen to Egypt.
Keef
Premium
- 24,552
- Dayton, OH
- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
But it's never in our interest. Too many unforeseen consequences to deal with, including this current situation. All these current situations in fact, because American hands were in them all in some way.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
The thing to remember is that the US and EU will support the most profitable bottom line.
Oil prices are already weighing heavily on our "recovering" economies and a militarisation of the Suez would force tanker prices up massively.
I know that I can barely afford to keep the tank of my Audi topped up right now and I bet that you're feeling the pinch too. Events in Egypt (and then Israel of course) will directly affect the petrol pump prices.
Human rights .vs. big business? Never any contest.
Oil prices are already weighing heavily on our "recovering" economies and a militarisation of the Suez would force tanker prices up massively.
I know that I can barely afford to keep the tank of my Audi topped up right now and I bet that you're feeling the pinch too. Events in Egypt (and then Israel of course) will directly affect the petrol pump prices.
Human rights .vs. big business? Never any contest.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
The ultimate combination of government and big business is fascism, as best exemplified by Benito Mussolini's corporate fascism. He allied himself with Hitler and died on the end of a rope.
Nobody who ever existed was more ruthless or effective than Joseph Stalin in suppressing disorder, unruly dissent, ethnic minorities and religion. Rat poison was to be his fate.
Too much blood and water have passed under the bridge to return to these 'high ideals' where efficiency, order, and profits are placed above messier things like human and civil rights.
- 2,529
- G-D Luxembourg
- GTP_Vince_Fiero
I find it strange how people are asking for intervention.
From the very unclear information I got:
1) There is a battle between pro and anti parties.
2) The army stays in the middle to separate them.
Yes there are some issues, nobody likes that people die or get wounded in the process.
But it still seems that the Egyptian people are fighting Egyptian people, like a mini civil war in the country. Every one is blaming the other, as usual.
As long as the military keep "reasonable" order (seems difficult for them) without starting a massacre of one party, I do not see any reason for external intervention.
Seems a point was made by the people and understood, seems the action is not sufficient for the people. Will be continued...
No convinced about this one, I'm convinced many Belgians currently think a dictatorship is a better solution then politicians arguing about who gets power over what for months in a row as is ongoing there now.
From the very unclear information I got:
1) There is a battle between pro and anti parties.
2) The army stays in the middle to separate them.
Yes there are some issues, nobody likes that people die or get wounded in the process.
But it still seems that the Egyptian people are fighting Egyptian people, like a mini civil war in the country. Every one is blaming the other, as usual.
As long as the military keep "reasonable" order (seems difficult for them) without starting a massacre of one party, I do not see any reason for external intervention.
Seems a point was made by the people and understood, seems the action is not sufficient for the people. Will be continued...
No convinced about this one, I'm convinced many Belgians currently think a dictatorship is a better solution then politicians arguing about who gets power over what for months in a row as is ongoing there now.
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blaaah
(Banned)
- 1,078
The BBC have reported that the Egyptian government hijacked the Vodafone mobile network to send mass text messages in support of the president. Vodafone say they were powerless to control it. Maybe legally they were powerless, but they could have just kept the network turned off.
Anyway Vodafone are saying they are not happy with what happened.
Proves the government is up for a fight though, why do they want to fight though I wonder?
Anyway Vodafone are saying they are not happy with what happened.
Proves the government is up for a fight though, why do they want to fight though I wonder?
- 353
- irishfan311
But the military isn't separating the two parties. And "pro-government supporters"? Come on. In the history of revolutions, has there ever been a legitimate group of people who actually supported the government when the rest of the populace was against the government? If I were to bet, I'd wager that these people have been conscripted through blackmail. In other words, they were told "go fight with the protesters because if this government falls, you won't have a job anymore", with the assurance that the military would stand down.
blaaah
(Banned)
- 1,078
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egypt-army-moves-to-stop-assault-on-protesters-2202827.html
The army are now intervening and making arrests. The Egyptian Prime Minister has made an unprecedented apology for the government supporters violence.
The army are now intervening and making arrests. The Egyptian Prime Minister has made an unprecedented apology for the government supporters violence.
- 15,529
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
I will just have to correct that there is no Pro Mubarak party.Most of those are secret Militia and Police that remain in hiding who were appointed by bussines men and former Parlman memmbers.
- 353
- irishfan311
I doubt anyone believed there was actually a legitimate group of people who were "pro-Mubarak".
Also:
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- 28,429
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
I was off work yesterday with a severe bout of... OK, you don't want to know this. Anyway, I was able to watch my fill of news from Egypt, and it seems like today could be a critical point. Despite the arguments for and against intervention, I personally think that Obama has taken a pretty sensible and correct stance - urging Mubarak to respect the will of the people and to allow the process of democratisation to begin in as orderly a fashion as possible. Of course, it is a bit of a slap in the face for Mubarak and other US allies in the region to see the US president turn his back so willingly on a supposed staunch ally, and it is a stance that was always going to provoke consternation from some (and Israel in particular).
Obama (and America in general) can no longer be seen to side with a dictator, even one who is a crucially important strategic ally, when they are committed to championing the causes of 'freedom' and 'democracy', seemingly at just about any costs. The big question is, if and when Mubarak steps down, is there a framework in place to cope with that and what is the likely outcome? In this regard, the US is clearly working very hard to be seen to support the anti-Mubarak movement (in principle) while at the same time trying to avoid the immediate collapse of Mubarak's regime, which could have dire consequences. Either way, I don't believe the US can or should be doing any more than they are doing, and I also don't believe that the US can or should be do anything less.
In the meantime, I hope this situation doesn't descend into a civil-war like situation, and today promises to be a pivotal day in one way or another.
Obama (and America in general) can no longer be seen to side with a dictator, even one who is a crucially important strategic ally, when they are committed to championing the causes of 'freedom' and 'democracy', seemingly at just about any costs. The big question is, if and when Mubarak steps down, is there a framework in place to cope with that and what is the likely outcome? In this regard, the US is clearly working very hard to be seen to support the anti-Mubarak movement (in principle) while at the same time trying to avoid the immediate collapse of Mubarak's regime, which could have dire consequences. Either way, I don't believe the US can or should be doing any more than they are doing, and I also don't believe that the US can or should be do anything less.
In the meantime, I hope this situation doesn't descend into a civil-war like situation, and today promises to be a pivotal day in one way or another.
