Are damper settings supposed to be stiffer at the front??

[KaiZen]

Hey Sukerkin,

I'm still interested about what time you can get on Deep Forest with the autoset gears set to 27.. You too Chishifu.. and anyone up for a challenge.. fully tuned s2000 type V on super soft T8 with auto gear set to 27. No tranny trick!

I've been able to do a best of 1:09.031, but I know I can crack into the high 8's with some smoother driving and more tweaking..

My friend got a 1st intermediate of 22.548, 2nd intermediate of 49.018 and a final time of 1:08.919 - BASTARD!! 🤬


I know I'm faster than him, he's just has more consistant lap times. I knew I shouldn't have given him tips on where to go faster! A month ago he'd be lucky to get into the 9's and now he gets into the 8's before me!!!! 🤬

Oh well.. finally I'm being challenged, I guess..


Mid 1:08's soon.. he'll never beat that! 💡

Cheers

 

[KaiZen]

Sukerkin,

Was just looking at your setup for the s2000 that you setup on Trial Mountain and was wondering how and why you had your Spring rates at 12.8 and 11.8 and how you came to set your camber and toe angles and stabilizers and.... well, a "quick" run down on how you set the car up for that track would be nice

A detailed approach, when you have the time, in my other thread would be better!

Since I know the car pretty well these days, mainly on Deep Forest really, I'd like to see how you came to eliminate it's mild under and major oversteer characteristics..


Thanks again.. You've been an enormous help

 

[sukerkin]

So a stiffer bound/rebound setting in effect slows the time it takes for the springs to compress/decompress controlling the pivot of the car, but at the same time increases the rate at which tires receive or lose load right? This seems logical imo, to a degree. Like your example of a ball falling in oil. The initial impact receives most of the force and is the most violent, but then the ball falls controlledly(?) throught the liquid.

That's my interpretation yes.

However, if the weight is transferred quicker, what happens during a longer corner? Weight is transferred quickly but the springs still have room to compress, what then?

One thing that tuning dampers etc is designed to do is to allow the car to take what is called a "set" as in goes into a corner and to do so with a speed that gives the driver the feel and the handling he wants. As long as the forces in play don't change radically (or the springs hit the bump stops) then how long the cornering manoever lasts isn't relevant. In any corner there are at least three phases - deceleration, steady-state and acceleration. What has to be accepted is that damper tuning is a compromise and you'll never get everything you want in every phase of a corner.

OH, another thing, what did you actually mean by the weight is tranferred forward more quickly under braking while the "effective" CoG is slowed? Is it because the wedging action is slowed but the tires are still receiving load?

That's my take on the issue.

If that's so, what does the wedging action have on anything?

The trick is to get a mental image of the forces that are in play and how the car body and the suspension is behaving at any given time. There is also a difference between apparent load on the tyres and actual dynamic weight distribution.

So the damper settings can allow the load to be felt by the tyres before the shift in effective CoG is complete (giving more stable and quicker response as perceived by the driver). Once the weight has shifted and the suspension has taken a set then the influence of the 'wedging' is that it gives the base from which the suspension can begin reacting to the next change in forces (usually accelerating out of the corner).

I'm not sure that this is helping any (I'm typing furiously at work when I should be configuring switchgear controls for a substation ) so I'll leave it alone. The best suggestion I can give you is to print out all that you can from, say, Smithees website and have a good read at your leisure. They cover all of this subject in more than enough detail to get you started.

 

[sukerkin]

Hi Kai

I'll get around to the S2000 when I can my friend - I'm just way too busy for any detailed tweaking or driving right now. I won't forget it but it might take a while before I stick any results/write-ups up.

 

[Super Jamie]

i think as a general rule in real life, your suspension should be as soft as possible without reducing the amount of power you put to the ground. likewise, the chassis should be as stiff as possible without reducing the same

 

[KSaiyu]

A quick precis of 'realworld' advice on some aspects of damper tuning (bearing in mind that GT doesn't do lateral weight transfer through the dampers (or at least we can't tune for it)):

HANDLING TIPS FOR DAMPERS

Short Tracks: Softer all the way around.
Flat or Tight Turn Tracks: Softer rears.
High Bank Tracks: One step stiffer on RF & RR.
Want Understeer Going In: Softer compression on RF or stiffer rebound on LR.
Want Oversteer Coming Out: Softer RR or stiffer rebound on LF.
Want Oversteer Going In: Softer rebound on LR or stiffer RF.

This is the part I don't get - wouldn't a softer bound on the RF and stiffer rebound on LR induce oversteer? The weight would transfer quickly off the inside rear wheel, and slower to the outside front wheel thus creating oversteer since the front set will have more grip during turn-in? Even the explanation at the bottom of http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/shocktune.html doesn't explain these settings, as they seem to contradict the Neil Robert's article on that same site.

Also, in the article http://www.smithees-racetech.com.au/theory/shocktune1.html under phase 4 exit, wouldn't turning + increased throttle = more cornering force be more appropriate? The phase 4 exit explained there represents a car's weight transferring BACK to the inside, so wouldn't this mean decreasing cornering force during exit? Surely to be the fastest, when you accelerate out of a corner at or just before the apex, weight will transfer aft and OUTWARDs, so adjusting the inside front rebound and outside rear bound will be more applicable?? Then again, since you can't adjust individually left/right in GT it doesn't really matter 💡

I think I need to experiment to see exactly when the weight transfers to the inside under acceleration and the cornering force decreases (thanks to the handy g meter in GT4), and I think I know the perfect car for it....Volvo 240

 

[sukerkin]

Hi Ksaiyu

Yes, I found that part of the discourse a little at odds with the rest too. I think the important thing to remember is that those final few "Tips from the Track" are based upon the premise that all the decel is done before the turn begins, so they are not adjusting to del with any changes of pitch (fore and aft) but only roll (side to side). As the game doesn't implement that very obviously (if at all) it's probably best not to take those tuning hints as being of great use to you, unless you find that they suit your style of course.

That's always going to be the proviso with any tuning for handling - that it is very driving style dependant. What works for me in all likelyhood won't work for someone else. An example of this is the oft plaudited Fumes - he has many set-ups on GTVault and they are of great use to many people. However, I can't use them; this in no way means that they're no good, just that I don't drive in a way that makes the best of them.

As to the Phase 4 query, I think that what they are positing is that most of the cornering forces have been disipated by this point and the suspension is settling back from it's maximum deflection to its normal state as the car straightens out whilst exiting the corner.

 

[KSaiyu]

Hi Ksaiyu

As to the Phase 4 query, I think that what they are positing is that most of the cornering forces have been disipated by this point and the suspension is settling back from it's maximum deflection to its normal state as the car straightens out whilst exiting the corner.

Ahhh I see, I checked on my Flinx replay to check and it does seem that when exiting a corner the weight transfers to the rear and outside around the apex, then as you say the suspension is at maximum deflection before finally settling back to rest.

 

[sukerkin]

As thoughts have been centred on tuning the S2000, I've had a scour about the net looking for some real world info on it. I found this site which may or may not be of value to you:

http://www.kingmotorsports.com/mugen_tech_s2000.asp.