Are Polyphony Digital victims of their own success?

[SCER]

Although you might not get the impression from forums, PD are hugely successful, and I can't help but feel that the reason that random people on the internet are making demands about what appears in their next game, and threatening not to buy the game, is because the Gran Turismo franchise is just so good. Does anybody agree with me on this?

I was watching the extended youtube video a few minutes ago, and the top rated comment was a list of things that Gran Turismo 6 needs to have. There seems to be no appreciation of the work that they do, just demands of more and more.

Lest we forget the years of work, sacrifice and sleepless nights that Kazunori Yamauichi put into making the original Gran Turismo people. Whenever someone attacks PD for laziness, I always hold my tongue, rather than suggest that they should make their own racing sim like Kaz did.

 

[tillbot8]

Seems to me they peaked at Gran Turismo 4, which ironically was before the very beginning of easily finding out customer feedback!

The Cell could of had a big part to play? Possibly? But other 3RD PARTY developers got the hang of it before 2010! A possible comparison could be, If you are ever on You Tube type in 'RedLettermedia' find a review on The New Starwars series of Films by 'Mr Plinkett' He will describe in detail why the new movies sucked compared to the old one's! The main contributing factor to the downfall of Star Wars was George Lucus took complete creative control and all of the producers where too afraid to challenge his views on where the Films were going! In the end it all became a great big non-linear mess with plot-holes and veering far from the original concept! Could that be the case with Kaz and PD I Don't know? Now i'm not saying Kaz balls'd it up, he didn't! But I think PD need to be a lot more focused on what they want! 1200 cars is overkill in my opinion if it meant not getting new tracks! Considering they spent time on further touching up the Standards, which I guarantee, the reviewers and critics are going to chew them up because they are still there!

To most of the People GT5 is appreciated. The good aspects of it were VERY GOOD, but there was an awful lot of bad. And PD are not a new Company they know how to do things right. Gran Turismo 4 was right! People do not want to see them fade into obscurity!

 

[PletdeKoe]

It's like seeing a very beautiful girl for the first time. All you can see is her pretty face. Immediatly you project you wishes of the perfect girlfriend on her. You want her to be sweet, good in bed, like the things you like, have a mind of her own, always fresh breath etc. It has nothing to do with who she really is.

 

[HAL20XX]

Yes, the sound, standards, lack of races in A-Spec, and tire model were all so good.

Why are people with very valid complaints (including the media) "random people"?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

It is funny really. I really expect to see big things from PD in GT versions.

Forza on the other hand I do not expect big things from. I find that when looking to an upcoming Forza release I just hope they do not screw it up to much.

For Forza 3 I had high hopes only to find that they had changed or completely removed much of what made Forza 2 great.

I expected much from GT5 and much of what I expected was not there but they did add some very cool features even if they were not complete. The only things I think they screwed up was tire wear and removing the restrictions on the GT Mode A-Spec races.

It is funny how if Forza releases a new title that adds a couple of things and updates the graphics people rave about it where GT adds huge things like Weather/ online play and people come out of the wood work to complain.

 

[BoneSawTX]

It is funny really. I really expect to see big things from PD in GT versions.

Forza on the other hand I do not expect big things from. I find that when looking to an upcoming Forza release I just hope they do not screw it up to much.

For Forza 3 I had high hopes only to find that they had changed or completely removed much of what made Forza 2 great.

I expected much from GT5 and much of what I expected was not there but they did add some very cool features even if they were not complete. The only things I think they screwed up was tire wear and removing the restrictions on the GT Mode A-Spec races.

It is funny how if Forza releases a new title that adds a couple of things and updates the graphics people rave about it where GT adds huge things like Weather/ online play and people come out of the wood work to complain.

i had night and weather while playing "Le Mans 24 Hours" on Dreamcast and PS2. GT5's game play is very unfocused, it's great if you have ADHD other wise it's a bunch of random races and events half assed thrown together with poor AI. It looks pretty but I'd like to have a good time while playing. I enjoyed GT-GT4,though i did with each one get a bit aggravated with sounds and the terrible AI.

Give me great game play, good physics, 500 cars, good sound and graphics and I'd still be on the PD/GT bandwagon. They failed miserable on the first one which was the most important to me, as of january I'm more impressed with FM4 offered.

 

[Fantomas666]

Although you might not get the impression from forums, PD are hugely successful, and I can't help but feel that the reason that random people on the internet are making demands about what appears in their next game, and threatening not to buy the game, is because the Gran Turismo franchise is just so good. Does anybody agree with me on this?

I was watching the extended youtube video a few minutes ago, and the top rated comment was a list of things that Gran Turismo 6 needs to have. There seems to be no appreciation of the work that they do, just demands of more and more.

I made a similar thread years ago, basically my feeling is that if this game was from a new developer people would be amazed by it, instead there is lots of focus on negativity.

I would like many of the features people talk about and I'm sure kaz would like some of them too. But if there not in then where's the alternative? Forza? Maybe pcars. But I'll be surprised if there better.

My main gripe personally is the standard cars I would literally rather they dumped them all in favour of maybe 30 more (well thought out) premiums to give the game a complete feel. But again many would disagree that's where I think the problem lies.

 

[Tornado]

I made a similar thread years ago, basically my feeling is that if this game was from a new developer people would be amazed by it, instead there is lots of focus on negativity.

A new game from a new developer wouldn't have had the preestablished standard of quality that GT5 did going in; and as a result the prerelease information would have been held with much more skepticism.

 

[SCER]

Yes, the sound, standards, lack of races in A-Spec, and tire model were all so good.

Why are people with very valid complaints (including the media) "random people"?

People that have bought the game over the years, which is an astronomical number of people, and feel that they have the right to demand things of a hugely sucessful racing sim company that sells millions of copies each generation, I can't take seriously. Polite suggestions are one thing, but when you start calling things 'bull****', and threaten to 'withdraw funding of the game by not buying it', you begin to consider yourself more important than you are. If a game doesn't suit you, buy a different game. Don't moan as if they owe you a life time of happiness.

And that's the thing, as much as people moan and whine and shout as if Gran Turismo is tailored for them personally, there's no game developer that does what they do nearly as well as they do.

People complain about the number of Japanese cars for instance, and PD, instead of saying "no, go away, we're a Japanese company making a Japanese car game, if you don't like it play something else", actually introduce new European manufacturers. And it's not like the amount of moaning ever reduces.

 

[Fantomas666]

A new game from a new developer wouldn't have had the preestablished standard of quality that GT5 did going in; and as a result the prerelease information would have been held with much more skepticism.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with that. But that's what he's asking in the thread title more or less. So you would think that they are victims of there own success? as expectation is very high there games are reviewed against previous iterations and expected development. rather than direct competition.

 

[DegenThought]

Absolutely agree with OP. ALL of us felt inclined to create accounts on a website titled GTPlanet. Devoted to the world of Gran Turismo. Because we love Gran Turismo.

PD are very stubborn, and very proud of what they do. They have created an excellent series of games, focusing on things they really want to be in a driving game. If any of you have read Ayn Rand, it's a similar philosophy. PD have created exactly what they want and they don't really care what else people want because they're selling games regardless.

The fact of the matter is, no matter how much they leave out, no matter how many obvious customer requests and complaints that have been around for years and never addressed, GT is still considered the best driving experience you can get on a console. They have created their own world, one which we all feel a part of. Of course it's frustrating knowing some highly requested features may never make their way into a GT game, but the way I see it, I'd rather see a company be truly devoted to creating an excellent console driving simulator, set the standard for physics, graphics, and driving experience; as opposed to a company that will bend over backwards to try every new gimmick, and make everybody happy. Trends change, opinions differ, and the masses will never be satisfied.

Personally, I have great respect for the Gran Turismo series for staying true to what it is, and I will always enjoy their games the most. So I'm content to just shake my head with a sly smile every time they release a new seasonal with terrible tunes, mix n match cars and tracks, and forced driving aids. 3000 models of the Nissan Skyline, terrible carnival music at GT Auto. It's a love hate relationship, but one I would be sad to ever see end.

ramble ramble ramble....

 

[SCER]

I made a similar thread years ago, basically my feeling is that if this game was from a new developer people would be amazed by it, instead there is lots of focus on negativity.

I would like many of the features people talk about and I'm sure kaz would like some of them too. But if there not in then where's the alternative? Forza? Maybe pcars. But I'll be surprised if there better.

My main gripe personally is the standard cars I would literally rather they dumped them all in favour of maybe 30 more (well thought out) premiums to give the game a complete feel. But again many would disagree that's where I think the problem lies.

A lack of competition means that people are desperate for GT to be good basically. And I think it brings out the worst in a lot of people.

Absolutely agree with OP. ALL of us felt inclined to create accounts on a website titled GTPlanet. Devoted to the world of Gran Turismo. Because we love Gran Turismo.

PD are very stubborn, and very proud of what they do. They have created an excellent series of games, focusing on things they really want to be in a driving game. If any of you have read Ayn Rand, it's a similar philosophy. PD have created exactly what they want and they don't really care what else people want because they're selling games regardless.

The fact of the matter is, no matter how much they leave out, no matter how many obvious customer requests and complaints that have been around for years and never addressed, GT is still considered the best driving experience you can get on a console. They have created their own world, one which we all feel a part of. Of course it's frustrating knowing some highly requested features may never make their way into a GT game, but the way I see it, I'd rather see a company be truly devoted to creating an excellent console driving simulator, set the standard for physics, graphics, and driving experience; as opposed to a company that will bend over backwards to try every new gimmick, and make everybody happy. Trends change, opinions differ, and the masses will never be satisfied.

Personally, I have great respect for the Gran Turismo series for staying true to what it is, and I will always enjoy their games the most. So I'm content to just shake my head with a sly smile every time they release a new seasonal with terrible tunes, mix n match cars and tracks, and forced driving aids. 3000 models of the Nissan Skyline, terrible carnival music at GT Auto. It's a love hate relationship, but one I would be sad to ever see end.

ramble ramble ramble....

Exactly. Appreciation of Kaz and PD's work is so rare. People need to remember the years of work and sacrifice Kaz put into the original Gran Turismo. I doubt he did it so that people could moan that PD don't work hard enough.

 

[Fantomas666]

Absolutely agree with OP. ALL of us felt inclined to create accounts on a website titled GTPlanet. Devoted to the world of Gran Turismo. Because we love Gran Turismo.

PD are very stubborn, and very proud of what they do. They have created an excellent series of games, focusing on things they really want to be in a driving game. If any of you have read Ayn Rand, it's a similar philosophy. PD have created exactly what they want and they don't really care what else people want because they're selling games regardless.

The fact of the matter is, no matter how much they leave out, no matter how many obvious customer requests and complaints that have been around for years and never addressed, GT is still considered the best driving experience you can get on a console. They have created their own world, one which we all feel a part of. Of course it's frustrating knowing some highly requested features may never make their way into a GT game, but the way I see it, I'd rather see a company be truly devoted to creating an excellent console driving simulator, set the standard for physics, graphics, and driving experience; as opposed to a company that will bend over backwards to try every new gimmick, and make everybody happy. Trends change, opinions differ, and the masses will never be satisfied.

Personally, I have great respect for the Gran Turismo series for staying true to what it is, and I will always enjoy their games the most. So I'm content to just shake my head with a sly smile every time they release a new seasonal with terrible tunes, mix n match cars and tracks, and forced driving aids. 3000 models of the Nissan Skyline, terrible carnival music at GT Auto. It's a love hate relationship, but one I would be sad to ever see end.

ramble ramble ramble....

http://youtu.be/x1Yd1gdF6C0

Just for you.

 

[Foxiol]

The thing is simple...we all are fans and we all want the best for the game. If something is not right the best thing is to be critic with it, so it can get better in the future.

Being a fan is not just to "support it till death", we should recognize the flaws and all the bad things that make it stop being the "BEST" game ever.

There will be always a lot of room of improvement in every area and costumers like us should be the ones to tell them what needs to be changed or fixed...or whatever.

Don´t forget that this is still a product and it should be better not just for the fans but also for people who never played it and undecided ones that are looking for something similar. PD is not alone in the business and since they have competence you can´t make mistakes with the product as they did with GT5. (surprisingly it sold a lot still but let´s see what happens with GT6)

 

[Tenacious D]

it's a bunch of random races and events half assed thrown together with poor AI.

Sounds like most racing games I've ever played, even PC sims. And I'm totally serious. I felt rather uninvolved in the GTRs and Live For Speed after some race time in both, in spite of the nice physics. Forza 4 would be awesome, but between the driver views, the idiot bots, the 3D perspective and missing ABS which is essential when you can't use racing brakes, I just can't race the way I can in other racers. iRenting might be the ticket, but I can't stomach paying what they want, especially as a casual racer.

I think people are just paranoid and get the squirms over what they disliked in GT5. They completely forget the legacy of the previous four games and why they were so good. Or they say thoughtless things about how Polyphony won't try anything new, and completely ignore all the bad and good things PD did differently in GT5. It was a mixed bag, but they tried to make the most of this convoluted but powerful new Playstation.

While I wish GT6 was on PS4, it looks like the team did their homework. I'm shocked at what they were able to squeeze from PS3 without so much as dropping resolution, which I was sure they would have to do to begin to improve the GT5 Engine. The Bilstein Audi R8 video from the Nordshleife almost makes my replays seem boring. The tire and suspension modeling make that replay seem even more real life than ever. And the graphic issues seem to have been fixed, as particle effects don't cause those awful jaggies anymore. This is the heavy lifting part.

Damage sounds like it will be the same, and we don't know what the sounds will be like, but I'm not too fussed about those. With club and league builder tools, and likely an Event Maker to go with them, the only things left on my wish list are a beefy offline mode with some real life season and career aspects to it, Race Mod for about all cars and a Livery Editor, and I'll be in heaven. This should be the Gran Turismo we've been waiting for, and a nice game to occupy us until GT7 on PS4 blows our hats off for real.

People that have bought the game over the years, which is an astronomical number of people, and feel that they have the right to demand things of a hugely sucessful racing sim company that sells millions of copies each generation, I can't take seriously. Polite suggestions are one thing, but when you start calling things 'bull****', and threaten to 'withdraw funding of the game by not buying it', you begin to consider yourself more important than you are. If a game doesn't suit you, buy a different game. Don't moan as if they owe you a life time of happiness.

What he said. I'm one of the biggest GT fanboys around, but I criticized GT5 too and asked for things to be fixed. But with respect, not the spitting attitude with thinly veiled obscenities. Even with its faults, GT5 is the only console game I've played for about a year. I have neglected games still in shrinkwrap which are gathering dust because I can't seem to quench the thirst for one more race around the Nordshleife or a new track I made.

I made a cute post that some guy used in his sig, and seems to fit the game pretty well:

"GT5 is sure a strange lady. Her cooking is hit and miss, she chews on the furniture, but it sure is fun to run around her curves."

 

[Ills1999]

I think people are just paranoid and get the squirms over what they disliked in GT5. They completely forget the legacy of the previous four games and why they were so good. Or they say thoughtless things about how Polyphony won't try anything new, and completely ignore all the bad and good things PD did differently in GT5. It was a mixed bag, but they tried to make the most of this convoluted but powerful new Playstation.

That PD is basically deaf/mute when it comes to criticism contributes to the problem. Look at Kaz's most resent 5 question "interview".

 

[SCER]

That PD is basically deaf/mute when it comes to criticism contributes to the problem. Look at Kaz's most resent 5 question "interview".

With all due respect, PD don't have to listen to you. If you have a problem with the game, make your own, that's what Kaz did, and that's my advice to you. They don't have to listen to you moan.

 

[Tornado]

With all due respect, PD don't have to listen to you. If you have a problem with the game, make your own, that's what Kaz did, and that's my advice to you. They don't have to listen to you moan.

That's a non-argument. They don't have to listen to you when you praise them, either. They could just do whatever they wanted irrelevant to any outside opinions, positive or negative.


Bolstering your argument with "let's see you do better" response just further sinks it.

 

[SCER]

That's a non-argument. They don't have to listen to you when you praise them, either. They could just do whatever they wanted irrelevant to any outside opinions, positive or negative.


Bolstering your argument with "let's see you do better" response just further sinks it.

No, they don't have to listen to you praise them either, you're correct. You've every right to disagree with me on this part, and a lot of people probably do, but I'd love for them to do whatever they want, regardless of outside opinions/interference. It went well with early GT titles. If I was a game developer who started from nothing, I'd want the freedom to make the games I want to see, without being told what to do.

 

[MeanElf]

The thing is simple...we all are fans and we all want the best for the game. If something is not right the best thing is to be critic with it, so it can get better in the future...

All well and fine with commenting on a game or series, however it's the manner in which this is often done that makes me wonder why PD even bother.

Too many of these people come across as uninformed, spoilt fadists (no, I wasn't trying to say something else) and that seems to have drown most of the genuine concerns, or relegated them to the area of 'wild wishes' purely by association.

PD have a good approach I feel. Their games have all been good and they change what they want to. Clearly they review feedback but in effect, they create what they wish and what they know they can achieve within the console parameters - and I'm not just talking PS3 here. With new capabilities they will doubtless expand further in some areas. It seems that they will likely exceed peoples' expectations with GT6 on the PS3 which so many said would not be possible.

I say let them be, the fadists and 'armchair-experts' will move on to be dissatisfied with other games and PD will continue to work on what they see as genuine areas for improvement, as they always have. If GT survives is something that's in their hands and I think they've done a fine job of proving their capabilities in that area so far.

Good thread.

 

[SCER]

All well and fine with commenting on a game or series, however it's the manner in which this is often done that makes me wonder why PD even bother.

Too many of these people come across as uninformed, spoilt fadists (no, I wasn't trying to say something else) and that seems to have drown most of the genuine concerns, or relegated them to the area of 'wild wishes' purely by association.

PD have a good approach I feel. Their games have all been good and they change what they want to. Clearly they review feedback but in effect, they create what they wish and what they know they can achieve within the console parameters - and I'm not just talking PS3 here. With new capabilities they will doubtless expand further in some areas. It seems that they will likely exceed peoples' expectations with GT6 on the PS3 which so many said would not be possible.

I say let them be, the fadists and 'armchair-experts' will move on to be dissatisfied with other games and PD will continue to work on what they see as genuine areas for improvement, as they always have. If GT survives is something that's in their hands and I think they've done a fine job of proving their capabilities in that area so far.

Good thread.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that acknowledges the hordes of armchair-enthusiasts that PD and this website suffer, and thank you.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Personally I am very impressed with some of the things PD has done since the release of GT5.

In the Forza series you are lucky when they correct a major bug and there are always a few of those in every Forza release. They pretty much never release any updates that add to the game other than of course the DLC cars and they are very slow to relase a patch for major issues.

 

[Ills1999]

With all due respect, PD don't have to listen to you. If you have a problem with the game, make your own, that's what Kaz did, and that's my advice to you. They don't have to listen to you moan.

This is hilarious. My ONE 'complaint' ever levied against PD. Besides, I wasn't addressing you.

 

[DegenThought]

http://youtu.be/x1Yd1gdF6C0

Just for you.

Thanks for that hahaha

 

[SCER]

This is hilarious. My ONE 'complaint' ever levied against PD. Besides, I wasn't addressing you.

My mistake, sorry. Change 'you' to 'anyone'.

 

[HAL20XX]

People that have bought the game over the years, which is an astronomical number of people, and feel that they have the right to demand things of a hugely sucessful racing sim company that sells millions of copies each generation, I can't take seriously. Polite suggestions are one thing, but when you start calling things 'bull****', and threaten to 'withdraw funding of the game by not buying it', you begin to consider yourself more important than you are. If a game doesn't suit you, buy a different game. Don't moan as if they owe you a life time of happiness.

I could say the exact same for people that are complacent such as yourself. And how is it a threat to say I won't buy their next game on blind faith? It's my right as a consumer to do so. I owe PD absolutely nothing and neither does any single person on this website. It is their duty to earn our purchase.

And that's the thing, as much as people moan and whine and shout as if Gran Turismo is tailored for them personally, there's no game developer that does what they do nearly as well as they do.

Since we're making personal preference a fact, T10 does a better job (regarding console games).

People complain about the number of Japanese cars for instance, and PD, instead of saying "no, go away, we're a Japanese company making a Japanese car game, if you don't like it play something else", actually introduce new European manufacturers. And it's not like the amount of moaning ever reduces.

Just like the amount of complacency doesn't dwindle.

 

[JackC8]

I'm seriously gonna puke.

 

[maxpontiac]

Lest we forget the years of work, sacrifice and sleepless nights that Kazunori Yamauichi put into making the original Gran Turismo people. Whenever someone attacks PD for laziness, I always hold my tongue, rather than suggest that they should make their own racing sim like Kaz did.

That because people on the internet rarely display empathy towards video game companies. I believe this comes from the fact that people do not stop and think what it would feel like to be criticized for their work on a constant basis.

It is funny how if Forza releases a new title that adds a couple of things and updates the graphics people rave about it where GT adds huge things like Weather/ online play and people come out of the wood work to complain.

That is because the majority of Gran Turismo players do not log on the internet and complain about GT5's shortcomings.

And that's the thing, as much as people moan and whine and shout as if Gran Turismo is tailored for them personally, there's no game developer that does what they do nearly as well as they do.

As I posted elsewhere, pay attention to whom is posting these complaints and you will see that is the usual suspects. Sure, some of these will change their name, but what they continually say stays the same.

Too many of these people come across as uninformed, spoilt fadists (no, I wasn't trying to say something else) and that seems to have drown most of the genuine concerns, or relegated them to the area of 'wild wishes' purely by association.

100% agree. People who are obviously intelligent resort to petty name calling such as "lazy" and "pathetic". It's no wonder PDI has failed to listen to people like this. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone who has the ability to formulate paragraphs and present excellent ideas do this type of thing.

Good thread.

Indeed.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

That is because the majority of Gran Turismo players do not log on the internet and complain about GT5's shortcomings.

Sorry but that makes no sense in the context of what you were responding to.

 

[mister dog]

i had night and weather while playing "Le Mans 24 Hours" on Dreamcast and PS2. GT5's game play is very unfocused, it's great if you have ADHD other wise it's a bunch of random races and events half assed thrown together with poor AI. It looks pretty but I'd like to have a good time while playing. I enjoyed GT-GT4,though i did with each one get a bit aggravated with sounds and the terrible AI.

Give me great game play, good physics, 500 cars, good sound and graphics and I'd still be on the PD/GT bandwagon. They failed miserable on the first one which was the most important to me, as of january I'm more impressed with FM4 offered.

This. Exactly what i'm thinking. If you see all these features (sound, damage, AI) can be implemented just right from the boys at T10, and compare this with the total inability of PD to do so, even tough their fanbase have been asking for it for years...