Area 51, Aliens, and Oddities.

[eliseracer]

It's a theory, since none of us were alive back then we can say for sure...and what the hell GM built the Blazer because I've been to the plant were it was built in Liden, NJ.

You obviously will never be fit for jury duty. In a court of law, the criminal, in most cases, is charged and convicted based on several things, one of which being evidence. Evidence is scientific data collected from various places, including the crime scene, relevant locations and people. Evidence does not lie. When the complete evidence is presented, the jury has the easy job of giving a verdict. This is how it works. If the evidence is complete enough, no matter what the defence says, they are wrong. If all evidence points towards the criminal, they are wrong, and will be convicted for their crimes.

The same works for my two cases. The Easter Island natives (or those who arrived on the island) had built the maoi from the rock quarries found not too far from their current resting place. I will not go into full detail of how everything was exactly done, but this information is easily accessible at your local library (shocker). This has all been found, and there is significant scientific evidence of all of this happening on Earth, by Humans.

Now the second case, about the Blazer. You have seen the plant where they were manufactured, and you have seen the VINs and all necessary proof. That is all evidence that GM had built the car, wherever it was. This is why you firmly believe that the Blazer was indeed built by GM, right there in the US of A.

The evidence is presented to you in a very clear fashion. If you were to say to your fellow jury mates that the criminal wasn't guilty, because that's just what you believe, completely disregarding the evidence, there would most likely be a mistrial and you would be ejected from the courthouse.

You are wrong. There is no other way to say it, and don't go off calling people asshats, there is no other way to take it.

 

[Joey D]

Complete evidence has not been presented, there is evidence for both cases on each and everyone the ancient wonders. BOTH SIDES! That's right there is evidence saying that humans did it, there is evidence saying they didn't. It brings up questions. I for one believe that many ancient wonders were indeed built or at least influnced by beings from another world. I think you guys are asshats because you are tell me, who believes strongly in this, that I am wrong. It would be like me going up to a Christian and telling them that they are wrong and Jesus never exsisted...it would be a bastard of a thing to do on my part. Let people believe what they will, right, wrong or indifferent.

The heads on Easter Island weigh quite a bit because they are rock, sure they carved them from a quarry, but how did they drag them, line them up so perfectly, and better yet why did they build them. I've only seen a show or two on them, and even then it didn't fully answer the questions.

Now the second case, about the Blazer. You have seen the plant where they were manufactured, and you have seen the VINs and all necessary proof. That is all evidence that GM had built the car, wherever it was. This is why you firmly believe that the Blazer was indeed built by GM, right there in the US of A.

This has nothing to do with the discussion...but seeing is believing...no?

You are wrong. There is no other way to say it, and don't go off calling people asshats, there is no other way to take it.

It's called beliefs...if you are Christian I'm not going to say that you are wrong because you think God exsist. I'm agnostic and I don't believe he does exsist, but that doesn't make you wrong and me right and vice versa.

 

[eliseracer]

Complete evidence has not been presented, there is evidence for both cases on each and everyone the ancient wonders. BOTH SIDES! That's right there is evidence saying that humans did it, there is evidence saying they didn't. It brings up questions.

I am strictly speaking with the Easter Island moai. Find me evidence that aleins visited Earth to build these statues, or that humans did not make these statues.

The heads on Easter Island weigh quite a bit because they are rock, sure they carved them from a quarry, but how did they drag them, line them up so perfectly, and better yet why did they build them. I've only seen a show or two on them, and even then it didn't fully answer the questions.

There has been proof of how they transported them, using logs and a lot of manpower. There are maoi statues abandonned, carved and everything, laying on the "road" on their way to be erected at their appropriate locations. Trees were a large factor in the manufacturing and transportation of the statues, and this is exactly why trees are so scarce on the island. This is also why there was such strong inter-tribal warfare, ultimately leading to the near-extinction of human life on the Island. You don't seem to acknowledge the fact that if you take a lot of people, the right tools and a bit of time, you can move large things. It may take days, weeks or years, but there isn't anything impossible about it.

You've seen a show or two. Now, you can go read a book that describes most of it. Or if you don't want to go to that extent, there are many reliable internet sources that describe Easter Island, its statues, and its people (including why they were built). If you don't wan to do that either, you can't engage in this kind of opinion debate on a serious level.

It's called beliefs...if you are Christian I'm not going to say that you are wrong because you think God exsist. I'm agnostic and I don't believe he does exsist, but that doesn't make you wrong and me right and vice versa.

This is part of the problem, you are right. I cannot call you right or wrong, but your opinion is based on false beliefs and flawed judgement. The exact same thing applies for my statement: GM never built the Blazer.

 

[Joey D]

I am strictly speaking with the Easter Island moai. Find me evidence that aleins visited Earth to build these statues.

It took PBS's Nova crew of 75 people over a month to lift a 10-ton moi head upright using only ancient tools. Even the Nova special says that the Easter Island heads are a mystery.

Actually here are a bunch of theories presented on PBS on how they were moved, one being aliens. But they are all theories.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/easter/move/past.html

There has been proof of how they transported them, using logs and a lot of manpower. There are maoi statues abandonned, carved and everything, laying on the "road" on their way to be erected at their appropriate locations. Trees were a large factor in the manufacturing and transportation of the statues, and this is exactly why trees are so scarce on the island. This is also why there was such strong inter-tribal warfare, ultimately leading to the near-extinction of human life on the Island.

It's a THEORY not a FOR SURE. I just showed you many theroies.

You've seen a show or two. Now, you can go read a book that describes most of it. Or if you don't want to go to that extent, there are many reliable internet sources that describe Easter Island, its statues, and its people (including why they were built). If you don't wan to do that either, you can't engage in this kind of opinion debate on a serious level.

If NOVA isn't crediable then nothing is.

This is part of the problem, you are right. I cannot call you right or wrong, but your opinion is based on false beliefs and flawed judgement. The exact same thing applies for my statement: GM never built the Blazer.

Once again thats a bastard of a thing to say, I believe it and you can't have false beliefs. I honestly and truely believe that aliens had a huge part in the ancient world. So you can call me wrong all you want, but you are just going to sound like a egotistical idiot who thinks his way is correct.

And enough about the Blazer, that's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while.

 

[eliseracer]

It took PBS's Nova crew of 75 people over a month to lift a 10-ton moi head upright using only ancient tools. Even the Nova special says that the Easter Island heads are a mystery.

The fact that it took over a month to do makes it impossible? Take 10 groups of 75 people, using real techniques, not speculated theories, and you'll have moved at least 1200 tons of rock in a year. How is that impossible?

It's a THEORY not a FOR SURE. I just showed you many theroies.

So before you said there was evidence proving that humans did not do it, now you say that it is only a theory? Let's see some evidence proving it wasn't done by humans.

Once again thats a bastard of a thing to say, I believe it and you can't have false beliefs. I honestly and truely believe that aliens had a huge part in the ancient world. So you can call me wrong all you want, but you are just going to sound like a egotistical idiot who thinks his way is correct.

Again I'll go back to the court case. Is the criminal wrong if every bit of evidence proves that he did it? Of course he is wrong, the scientific evidence proves him wrong. So if Osama bin Laden himself approached you, told him that he is completely innocent and that he has never commited a crime ever, you would definitely, without doubt, 100%, right away, immediately call him wrong. His beliefs are his, so you cannot call him wrong.

And enough about the Blazer, that's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while.

And don't dismiss this part of it. You think that the statement "GM never built the Blazer" is wrong? Well that's just my belief, so it can't be wrong. You cannot say that it is a wrong statement. I believe that Aliens make them, actually.

If aliens visited (or had a part in) the ancient world, why did they visit then, and not now, when they could use so much more of our knowledge than back then?

 

[James2097]

eliseracer is right beyond a shadow of a doubt here... Blazin' is diggin' a hole - maybe he'll find an alien artefact!

 

[Joey D]

If you guys don't want to participate in the discussion fine, but don't be jackasses saying I'm wrong when I believe in one theory. I never once said that it was done by aliens, I said I personally believe it was done by aliens. It may or may not have been.

 

[eliseracer]

My point is that there is no proof whatsoever that it was done by aliens, and all of the proof shows that it was done by humans. Legally, scientifically, and most of all, logically, this means that it was in fact done by humans.

End of story.

 

[ND4SPD]

So anyways, does anyone know anything or have any info on that small forest like area near area 51 that seems so out of place for its location?

 

[James2097]

If I believed there was a chance aliens had come to Earth when we were ape-like and we were all bred up from them into modern humans, I wouldn't expect anyone to give me the time of day. Its simply crazy! We KNOW that man achieved what we have today through his own ability... there is evidence and logical steps of human technology you can follow to see what happened...

Its not two belief based ideas here, its fact or fiction.

 

[Dave A]

I don't know how this subject got so off hand, but heres my view anyway.

I personally don't believe aliens had anything at all to do with the ancient world, I don't believe we've ever been viited by aliens either. However, if somone was to ask me if aliens existed or not, I'd consider it to be very narrow minded to state that they didn't. The bottom line is, I have no idea and thats probably how it'll be when I die. Imho I don't see much in this evidence that aliens did come to earth, I think theres a lot being read into a little, however Blazin does have one very valid point, no-one here can prove he's wrong. It's like on the odd occaision I can be bothered entering one of the is there a god type threads, as much as Famine or any other scientist will tell me there is not god or we all evolved, I'm going to simply say, "bull****e. Theres a lot that happened in the past that can be used as evidence of a God, however like most things that have been and gone, there can be more than one way to interpret an event or a record ect. My point is, let Blazin be with his view, because until you, me or anyone else can come in here and categorcally state that he is wrong because they were there, or they found records that describe the constuction of all ancient civilisations and their ways of life, in depth, theres no point arguing who's right or wrong. Sure argue why you believe what you do, but without the I'm just right attitude.

 

[Joey D]

And see you are someone I can respect, you don't believe in aliens and that is fine. They may or may not exsist, but one day we will know. Not tomarrow or the next day, but we will eventually find out.

 

[eliseracer]

It still seems that at some point, it isn't a matter of opinions, but facts, which can't be taken two ways.

In the case of many of our ancient world's constructions, the fact is that humans did the entirety of the building.

Now if this is a thread about the existance of aliens, then there can't be any argument, because our knowledge is almost entirely restricted to our little planet and solar system.

 

[Joey D]

There is no fact or proof that the Egyptians (or Jewish Slaves) built the pyrmids, but the same goes for the aliens.

 

[Kent]

This is the way I see it.

Aliens may exist.
I do not say they do exist and I do not say they don't exist (what is that, a triple negative ).

Basically, my views are split in two.

One side of me says "aliens have got to be out there somewhere, there is just too much out there for earth to be the only 'living planet."

At the same time though, there is a scientific side of me that says "I need solid proof of alien life."
As in, an alien landing on earth or earthlings landing on an alien planet and finding other intelligent creatures.

Since I can't say what's out there, and since I aliens have not landed on earth (legitimately), then I can not say whether aliens do or do not exist.

Simple as that, much like "God" this all comes down to faith vs proof.

 

[eliseracer]

There is no fact or proof that the Egyptians (or Jewish Slaves) built the pyrmids, but the same goes for the aliens.

They did a good job cleaning up, picked up all of the tools and everything.

I'll take back my statement, as I haven't looked into very much information regarding the pyramids. However, I know that there is plenty of proof of the happenings of Easter Island.

Regarding aliens, I am uncertain of a foreign alien race or civilization, I do believe that there is, somewhere, life.

And why do we always portray aliens as having the same physical features as humans? What says that they have to see the same as we do, with eyes? What says that they don't have any other senses that we haven't dreamed of? If aliens visited, I'll put down a trillion dollars that they wouldn't look remotely like humans.

 

[James2097]

Blazin' is really underselling the skills of ancient humans... We were still just as intelligent back then, just not as knowledgable or educated...

I'm not saying aliens don't exist, they most probably do. Space is vast. Have they come to Earth? Who knows, but the chances are VERY slim. We have no real evidence of aliens ever being here, but loads of evidence of human achievement and the techniques they used to accomplish all the things Blazin' talks about.

If Blazin' still thinks we didn't build the pyramids or whatnot after actually doing some solid, academic research into it (not wacko websites), he's nuts. I can conclusively say I am right, and if Blazin' or live4speed thinks I'm being a little harsh without either of them actually researching the topic in a serious and scientific manner, that's their loss. If you guys care to look, you'll find perfectly rational reasons/motivations and techniques ancient humans had to construct things like the pyramids, and zero evidence of alien involvment.

It IS fact or fiction.

 

[Joey D]

My opinion and beliefs are different then yours so I'm nuts? Wow you sounds like a bastard, I'd never tell anyone they are wrong over a belief. You realize many people think the same way I do right?

 

[James2097]

But its NOT a belief. Its fiction, a story. Its nearly as silly as asserting that aliens built your own house! We DO know enough about how and why the Egyptians built the pyramids to rule out any kind of alien involvement. Blazin', I have studied the construction of the great pyramid at uni as part of my architecture degree. I know enough about the topic to unashamedly say you're barking up the wrong tree on this occasion.

Please take historical culture and architecture classes, study the possibilities and get back to me.

 

[Joey D]

It is a beilef, just like religion is a belief. There is no fact behind any of it. People speculate on how the pyramids were built, I just happen to believe that aliens has a hand with it. Does that make me wrong? No. But does it make me right? No, not at all.

I have taken severl ancient studies classes before but nothing they have said is soild fool proof evidence. It's like God, I won't believe in a God unless you show me soild proof.

And we don't know enough about the Egyptian pryamids, I mean look they align themselves with the stars, have oddly shaped hyroglyphics, etc. I don't know, it's enough for my mind to believe that they are somewhat alien built. Plus the amount of work that it must have took them is 100's of years. I don't believe a civilization with out mechincal devices could manage that.

Don't tell me I'm worng because you sounds like a jackass. Like I said it would be like me saying God is a made up story just because I don't believe in Him.

 

[James2097]

But God is a made up story. You can even note how this story changed over time to appeal and adapt to the era and different cultural norms society wanted from religion.

Btw, we DO know enough about how the pyramids were made. There are several perfectly reasonable ways the stones could have been cut and manouvered. We can also read hyroglyphics perfectly well, and we understand how this form of writing evolved from earlier pictoral forms.

I am NOT purposely being a bastard or a jackass. I implore you to do your own research for yourself before telling me I am not correct, or not being as "open minded" as yourself.

There have been more recent studies into the construction of the pyramids by several respected authors since you would have done watered down ancient history classes at school.

They were teaching us in architecture, at the University of Melbourne, that "This Is How The Great Pyramid Was Built.... etc etc". It was very detailed, very scientific, very reasonable. No aliens were involved. Hence why I don't think you have a valid belief. You just want to believe that aliens may have had a hand in it because it would be cool and you like the feeling of it being mysterious and a bit unknown. I DO understand this, but a good imagination isn't always applicable to the real world.

 

[Dave A]

Now your several country miles off track here, proove that God is made up, people changing the way they percieve him doesn't disproove he exists, there are several reasonable explanations as to why the pryramds were built, i agree, however no one can state which of these methods was used, no one today actually knows how they were built, all we can do is theorize. If your going to call people nut's because they have a theory that doesn't fit well with you, I'd say it's you thats closest to being nut's. I've said it myself, I don't agree with Blazin here, but theres no reason whatsoever to start getting personal over it. The bottom line is that neither me or you can categorically state that Blazin is wrong, sure he might well be, I personally think he is, I can say that with 100% certainty in my mind even, but I can't prove it. Blazin isn't the only person on this planet with belief in that theory, he's probably not the only one on these boards either.

Debate about it, say why you believe what you do, but don't get personal because you don't do yourself or the discussion any favours.

 

[James2097]

I'm not getting personal, just straight talking. I do not think either of you two are jackasses (as blazin' thinks of me - charming indeed...), I've only said blazin' is 'nuts' or 'a bit silly' to believe aliens built the pyramids. This was said in a lighthearted way, and surely one can understand my sentiments coming from a position of knowledge and reason.

I hate to have to blow myself - but - I have done considerable serious research into this topic (at very high university level) and I've given my deductions (incidentally the same as ALL notable researchers into ancient pyramid construction) - no alien involvement. Really, the onus is on you two to arm yourselves with knowledge - to educate yourselves - before attacking me. I'm not apologising for expressing facts. I haven't been that rude either, only certain in my views - perfectly justly in this case.

The bit about God was flippant on purpose.

All the information to prove I am correct is in the public domain, so knock yourselves out. I'm not going to go into the construction/cultural/planning etc details of, say, the great pyramid right here on GTPlanet, as this would take a LONG time, plus you guys have been a bit too rude and disrespectful to warrant the effort required to type it all out. Again, the onus is on you two to learn something relevant. Restating outdated and lazy notions of our supposed inability to work out surprisingly simple and straightforward construction techniques doesn't really get you anywhere. You KNOW aliens are just a placeholder belief until you work out the facts. So logically, why not go research this is a serious manner?

 

[Zardoz]

...Blazin isn't the only person on this planet with belief in that theory, he's probably not the only one on these boards either...

As I said before, these "beliefs" spring from a fundamental lack of respect for the intelligence, motivation, and persistence of ancient peoples. We see what they did, think about the fact that they had no modern power equipment to do it with, and throw up our hands in total bewilderment, lazily abandoning critical analysis and instead adopting silly beliefs in "higher powers" that, for some unknown reason, came along and did it for them.

You say we can't state that such a bizarre belief is "categorically wrong". Yes we can. We can state that the idea that extra-terrestrials did the Egyptians' work for them is dead wrong. We can do that.

 

[Joey D]

I have done research on how the pyramids were "built" but I personally don't agree with how they were built. They are all theroies, and while they have some evidence to support them, they are just that, therioes. Just like saying we can't approach the speed of light, that might be, but you can't prove or disprove it because there is no possible way to.

I'm open to all theories when it comes to the paranormal, metaphysics, modern physics, and the unexplained. Why? Because that way I get all the view points instead of being closed minded and not listening to a theory.

Also there are many people that believe the same way I do.

 

[James2097]

As I said before, these "beliefs" spring from a fundamental lack of respect for the intelligence, motivation, and persistence of ancient peoples. We see what they did, think about the fact that they had no modern power equipment to do it with, and throw up our hands in total bewilderment, lazily abandoning critical analysis and instead adopting silly beliefs in "higher powers" that, for some unknown reason, came along and did it for them.

You say we can't state that such a bizarre belief is "categorically wrong". Yes we can. We can state that the idea that extra-terrestrials did the Egyptians' work for them is dead wrong. We can do that.

I concur. Researching this properly is the antithesis of being closed minded. We are open minded, as we use rational reasoning and can update our thinking when new evidence comes along. This is just like the creation vs evolution thread - who is more open minded at the end of the day (even though the religious ppl rant that they are)? I'd say the folks who use scientific reason to form rational ideas which are subject to change given a better idea, and listen to all theories and analyse whether each could be more or less valid.

Aliens are certainly not one of the better ideas, especially considering the construction of the pyramids isn't in any way a mystery! We can see the quarries, we can see the chisel marks in the stones, and even pictures in some discovered stones of people cutting the stones, showing the tools they used - including names of certain dudes that put certain stones in place. Everything was totally possible given the culture and expertise in masonry the ancient Egyptians had. The hieroglyphics are also perfectly understandable as nothing alien whatsoever, and simply evolved from earlier forms of pictorial story telling. Why persist with the alien stuff? You simply like the idea. I like the idea of flying cars, but they don't exist yet either.

Btw, watching b-grade "mysterious" docos on the pyramids doesn't count.

 

[Joey D]

I concur. Researching this properly is the antithesis of being closed minded. We are open minded, as we use rational reasoning and can update our thinking when new evidence comes along. This is just like the creation vs evolution thread - who is more open minded at the end of the day (even though the religious ppl rant that they are)? I'd say the folks who use scientific reason to form rational ideas which are subject to change given a better idea, and listen to all theories and analyse whether each could be more or less valid.

Aliens are certainly not one of the better ideas, especially considering the construction of the pyramids isn't in any way a mystery! We can see the quarries, we can see the chisel marks in the stones, and even pictures in some discovered stones of people cutting the stones, showing the tools they used - including names of certain dudes that put certain stones in place. Everything was totally possible given the culture and expertise in masonry the ancient Egyptians had. The hieroglyphics are also perfectly understandable as nothing alien whatsoever, and simply evolved from earlier forms of pictorial story telling. Why persist with the alien stuff? You simply like the idea. I like the idea of flying cars, but they don't exist yet either.

Btw, watching b-grade "mysterious" docos on the pyramids doesn't count.

Quit being an ass, please. Why can't you just let it be that my opinion differs from yours? You've said you part, not either bring up a new topic within the topic or drop it. I'm getting pretty tired of you saying I'm wrong when I'm neither wrong or right.

 

[Dave A]

You say we can't state that such a bizarre belief is "categorically wrong". Yes we can. We can state that the idea that extra-terrestrials did the Egyptians' work for them is dead wrong. We can do that.

Do you know what it means to categorically state something, because you didn't just do it, you stated, you may have stated with certainty in "your" head. But you didn't categorically state it, because neither you, nor anyone else, myself included has disproven Blazin's theory, the very best we can do is come up with an alternate or counter theory.

Categorically means absolutely or absolute certainty, absolute means true, and we don't know the truth, we can only theorise and speculate.

 

[Zardoz]

Do you know what it means to categorically state something...Categorically means absolutely or absolute certainty...

Oh, I'm absolutely certain, but if you say I'm not, then who am I to argue the point?

If you say that believing that 2 + 2 = 5 is "categorically wrong", but believing that a race of extraterrestrials travelled hundreds or thousands of light years to pile up some stones is somehow not "categorically wrong", then I'll stand corrected.

Whatever you say...

 

[Dave A]

None of these theories are categorically correct or wrong, thats what Blazin's been saying for ages, thats my only pont in this matter. People seem intenent on ramming what they believe down peoples throats, don't hate people or have a go at people for not believing what you do if it's all just theories. Like I've said, I don't believe Aliens came here, I think the idea is way too far fetched, why did they leave? Whast purpose did coming here fulfill? Why wasn't there any records of them coming that provide no doubt to the fact they came? ect. I can't think of any reasons that make any sence, but I still can't disprove the theory that they came, you can provide more reasons to follow your theory, but until a bigger discovery is made it will remain a theory either way.