Assetto Corsa AI

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Biggles

Biggles

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Simcoeace
I hope I'm not wrong in this, but I don't see a thread devoted to AI.

I read quite a bit in the early days of AC about the shortcomings of the AI. Now that I'm playing it - on PS4 with T500 & shifter - I am very pleasantly surprised by how good it is. The AI in the GT franchise is, as everyone knows, just awful. PCars was a big step up from GT, but in many cases - I can't say across-the-board, because I didn't play that much in PCars - was too slow for decent competition, even turned up to 100%. In the vintage open wheel cars, which I favour, it is almost unplayable, the AI cars are so incompetent.

In contrast, the AI in AC seems fast, races a good line, but departs from it depending on what you ... & the other cars do. I am currently focussed on racing the vintage Lotus F1 cars. On Medium setting I get a good race in Quick Race, starting in 10th place & running 1 to 2 secs faster than the field (when I don't screw up). This makes me competitive in Race Weekend on Hard & I'm assuming I may get to Very Hard with more practice.

So far, I would say that AC provides exactly what I'm looking for in a racing game. I have more or less given up on the prospect of racing online as I find it too time consuming. AC provides challenging offline racing on a pick-up-&-play basis.

What are other people's experience with AC's AI?
 
The higher the you set the level of AI to the more aggressive they become. When I first started this game I too thought the AI was pretty good but with time and the "rose tinted glasses" falling off I think they need a lot more polish.

I am currently working my way through the Special Events and the AI on Alien are just awful a lot of the time, especially when they just muscle up the inside and just bash me off into the dirt. I have watched numerous replays and I keep getting "tapped" on the rear quarter panel and just spun off into the weeds.

My list of hates with the AI:
1) With any contact I always come off second best
2) They will not redress if they do hit me
3) When lapping them they are just as aggressive (only tried in career)
4) In open wheelers they love to lock wheels with me resulting in me coming off worse
5) In the same car they are quicker in straight line even if I have better exit speed
6) They are inconsistent (can be good can be bad)
7) They have even pushed me off in a straight line!!!

To summarise here the AI has no idea about what "overlap" is and racing rules about who has right of way

What I do like about the AI is that I can actually out brake them into a corner.
 
TT92
The higher the you set the level of AI to the more aggressive they become. When I first started this game I too thought the AI was pretty good but with time and the "rose tinted glasses" falling off I think they need a lot more polish.

I am currently working my way through the Special Events and the AI on Alien are just awful a lot of the time, especially when they just muscle up the inside and just bash me off into the dirt. I have watched numerous replays and I keep getting "tapped" on the rear quarter panel and just spun off into the weeds.

My list of hates with the AI:
1) With any contact I always come off second best
2) They will not redress if they do hit me
3) When lapping them they are just as aggressive (only tried in career)
4) In open wheelers they love to lock wheels with me resulting in me coming off worse
5) In the same car they are quicker in straight line even if I have better exit speed
6) They are inconsistent (can be good can be bad)
7) They have even pushed me off in a straight line!!!

To summarise here the AI has no idea about what "overlap" is and racing rules about who has right of way

What I do like about the AI is that I can actually out brake them into a corner.
Click to expand...

Does number 5 suggest that AI cars have more acceleration even with same spec car as yours ? Would that be rubber banding in certain situation or AI level ?
 
My biggest gripe with the AI is tied to the difficulty settings and how you can win in some cars on some tracks on Alien yet struggle to move through the field even on Medium. I even opened a thread on the official forum to ask if Kunos could address this, or give us the incremental percentage adjustment that PC players have. It's just too out of balance as it stands which can lead to either very easy or frustrating races. I struggle to find a good AI level as I could with pCARS. I did a race yesterday round Nords on Easy and overtook the whole field on the first lap and was comfortably in the lead, yet doing the same race on Medium the AI were lapping 11 seconds quicker than me. To me that's a ridiculous difference between Easy and Medium.

In terms of AI behaviour, I agree with the points above. I've been fish tailed on numerous occasions because the AI isn't programmed to slow down and instead keep going even if you're right there in front of them. Sometimes it's my fault, yet mostly it's not. Leads to some frustrating race starts/first corners.

I do tend to give them more respect than the pCARS AI though, and have seen them actively backing out of a corner if I've taken it before them. I have less of a fear that they'll turn in on me, it's just when they're slightly behind I worry. After the recent patch it's now possible for them to spin out at least.

Open wheel AI seems a bit better than pCARS', but can get a bit crazy.
Exit speeds seem too high generally, and they seem to get more drag than I do.

Hopefully we'll get updated to the PC AI version sooner rather than later, as there are some nice improvements to their behaviour by the looks of things. But for me it's the car/track difficulty imbalance that irks me the most.
 
K_Soze
In pCars AIs are using a totally different physics model so their performance are unmatchable by the player (you can't learn from AI, if you use the same braking point, you will never stay on the track).

This is a major difference with AC where all cars respect the same physics laws.
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Apart from their inhuman ability to instantly correct mistakes. But that will hopefully be toned down whenever us peasants get the newer AI model.
 
I did a race in the Toyota GT86 around Brands Hatch Indy last night and the AI (alien) wasn't pulling away from me on the straight. It mght be the car (one make race) but that's the first time I've found that to be the case since before the last patch.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Does number 5 suggest that AI cars have more acceleration even with same spec car as yours
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Yes


Ridox2JZGTE
Would that be rubber banding in certain situation or AI level ?
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with the AI level, they are usually still faster on the straights. The aggression changes with the difficulty levels or it just maybe they are faster in the corners and it just appears that way (shrug).

I was reading somewhere (????) that Kunos does give them a percentage increase in performance.
 
TT92
Yes


It has nothing to do with the AI level, they are usually still faster on the straights. The aggression changes with the difficulty levels or it just maybe they are faster in the corners and it just appears that way (shrug).

I was reading somewhere (????) that Kunos does give them a percentage increase in performance.
Click to expand...

If you can save a race replay, and watch the AI cars RPM,speed,etc when pulling away, you may be able to see if the AI cars have more power than it should, maybe the game added more power or tire grip or reduce drag dynamically as the AI became aggressive.
 
TT92
The higher the you set the level of AI to the more aggressive they become. When I first started this game I too thought the AI was pretty good but with time and the "rose tinted glasses" falling off I think they need a lot more polish.

I am currently working my way through the Special Events and the AI on Alien are just awful a lot of the time, especially when they just muscle up the inside and just bash me off into the dirt. I have watched numerous replays and I keep getting "tapped" on the rear quarter panel and just spun off into the weeds.

My list of hates with the AI:
1) With any contact I always come off second best
2) They will not redress if they do hit me
3) When lapping them they are just as aggressive (only tried in career)
4) In open wheelers they love to lock wheels with me resulting in me coming off worse
5) In the same car they are quicker in straight line even if I have better exit speed
6) They are inconsistent (can be good can be bad)
7) They have even pushed me off in a straight line!!!

To summarise here the AI has no idea about what "overlap" is and racing rules about who has right of way

What I do like about the AI is that I can actually out brake them into a corner.
Click to expand...

#1, 2, 6, and 7 have definitely been improved on the PC side with recent updates (I haven't raced open wheelers against the AI in some time so not sure if that's been improved, but I'd guess it has been because they behave better in close quarters and are more aware of the player). Presumably that should all trickle down to the consoles soon.

Ridox2JZGTE
Does number 5 suggest that AI cars have more acceleration even with same spec car as yours ? Would that be rubber banding in certain situation or AI level ?
Click to expand...

The higher the setting the faster and more aggressive they are (it can vary from car to car and track to track). I can pretty confidently say there is no rubber banding in AC. Part of the reason they get better speed in a straight is because they use stability control so they basically get a perfect exit every time. Stefano is working on a tweak that momentarily disables their SC at times so their mistakes/crashes will be more realistic.

The AI still has some quirks and certainly room for improvement, but they have improved leaps and bounds over the last six months or so. Not the best in the business by any stretch, but not the disappointment they once were. Hopefully that trend will continue.
 
BrandonW77
The higher the setting the faster and more aggressive they are (it can vary from car to car and track to track). I can pretty confidently say there is no rubber banding in AC. Part of the reason they get better speed in a straight is because they use stability control so they basically get a perfect exit every time. Stefano is working on a tweak that momentarily disables their SC at times so their mistakes/crashes will be more realistic.

The AI still has some quirks and certainly room for improvement, but they have improved leaps and bounds over the last six months or so. Not the best in the business by any stretch, but not the disappointment they once were. Hopefully that trend will continue.
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We are talking about console version here, not PC :) I asked TT92 about acceleration of the same car driven by player and AI and this
Part of the reason they get better speed in a straight is because they use stability control so they basically get a perfect exit every time. Stefano is working on a tweak that momentarily disables their SC at times so their mistakes/crashes will be more realistic.
Click to expand...

so in console, AI cars have SC all the time and have perfect exit every time, even on lower difficulty ?

@TT92 can you do drag race against AI cars in drag track ? Drag the same car on various AI level, maybe it will show something.
 
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Ridox2JZGTE
We are talking about console version here, not PC :) I asked TT92 about acceleration of the same car driven by player and AI and this


so in console, AI cars have SC all the time and have perfect exit every time, even on lower difficulty ?

@TT92 can you do drag race against AI cars in drag track ? Drag the same car on various AI level, maybe it will show something.
Click to expand...
The AI on console is the same as pc from v1.5 or so, so yes, the stability control issue applies. The AI are masters at getting on the throttle early exiting a corner, much better than most sim racers are. Getting on just a tenth or two slower than they do can make a big difference all the way down the straight. They are working on it and I have faith they'll solve it eventually.

There is no drag track on console.
 
Johnnypenso
The AI on console is the same as pc from v1.5 or so, so yes, the stability control issue applies. The AI are masters at getting on the throttle early exiting a corner, much better than most sim racers are. Getting on just a tenth or two slower than they do can make a big difference all the way down the straight. They are working on it and I have faith they'll solve it eventually.

There is no drag track on console.
Click to expand...


Did you read TT92 post :

5) In the same car they are quicker in straight line even if I have better exit speed

This means AI cars have better acceleration than players car, because they can be quicker even if the player have better exit speed. Do you have console version now ? How did you know which version AI in console has ? Have you done extensive test on console, racing the AI ? I trust @TT92 as he has completed the AC career mode on PS4.

I only interested in information from those who have played on console, the only version I'm interested in.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
We are talking about console version here, not PC
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I'm quite aware of that mate, I was just trying to let him know that some of those issues have been improved on PC and thus console players can expect these improvements at some point in the future. I made that pretty clear by saying
BrandonW77
Presumably that should all trickle down to the consoles soon.
Click to expand...

Ridox2JZGTE
Did you read TT92 post :

5) In the same car they are quicker in straight line even if I have better exit speed

This means AI cars have better acceleration than players car, because they can be quicker even if the player have better exit speed. Do you have console version now ? How did you know which version AI in console has ? Have you done extensive test on console, racing the AI ? I trust @TT92 as he has completed the AC career mode on PS4.
Click to expand...

Yes, they always seem to be a bit faster in a straight line. It's a flaw, I've never encountered AI in a racing game that doesn't have some kind of flaw so this isn't exclusive AC failure. Hopefully it's fixed at some point. Stefano has pointed out that the console version is currently the same as PC version 1.5 so it should be fairly easy for PC players to extrapolate what's going on with the console AI.
 
Interesting comments. I have to say that inconsistency of performance across different cars/tracks seems a pretty universal experience in racing games.

In PCars the vintage open wheelers are almost impossible to use because the AI cars drive SO badly, veering all over the road & off the track in the first lap. Also, on some tracks they are way too slow to allow for competitive racing.

I haven't tried the AC AI on a setting higher than Hard, so I don't know, but the performance of the AI cars on Easy, Medium & Hard seems to be OK - it doesn't seem to be significantly different from the car I'm driving.

Maybe the key to a good race experience is not to be too fast yourself ... I'm good at that! :P
 
BrandonW77
I'm quite aware of that mate, I was just trying to let him know that some of those issues have been improved on PC and thus console players can expect these improvements at some point in the future. I made that pretty clear by saying
Click to expand...

That was your response to TT92, not me.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Did you read TT92 post :

5) In the same car they are quicker in straight line even if I have better exit speed

This means AI cars have better acceleration than players car, because they can be quicker even if the player have better exit speed. Do you have console version now ? How did you know which version AI in console has ? Have you done extensive test on console, racing the AI ? I trust @TT92 as he has completed the AC career mode on PS4.

I only interested in information from those who have played on console, the only version I'm interested in.
Click to expand...
Do you have the console version now? It's been bandied about the forums that the AI are around version 1.5 from pc, that's where the info comes from. I don't think anyone has a definitive answer unless it came directly from one of the developers.

If you want to have a conversation with TT92 because you trust him I suggest you take it to PM, otherwise the rest of us will chime in as we see fit.
 
Johnnypenso
Do you have the console version now? It's been bandied about the forums that the AI are around version 1.5 from pc, that's where the info comes from. I don't think anyone has a definitive answer unless it came directly from one of the developers.

If you want to have a conversation with TT92 because you trust him I suggest you take it to PM, otherwise the rest of us will chime in as we see fit.
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I'm asking because I don't have one and I'm planning to buy, hopefully at the right time with more fixes/updates. I'm expecting answers from people who have the console version and played them, @TT92 has done the career mode. I was asking him in the first place, no need for PM. Why do you quote me ? If you have console version, played the career, I'll be glad to hear your response on the AI issues.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
I'm asking because I don't have one and I'm planning to buy, hopefully at the right time with more fixes/updates. I'm expecting answers from people who have the console version and played them, @TT92 has done the career mode. I was asking him in the first place, no need for PM. Why do you quote me ? If you have console version, played the career, I'll be glad to hear your response on the AI issues.
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Watch this, it came out before the console update but he explains a lot of things about the PC and console versions and why some things are they way they are.

 
bleeder
Apart from their inhuman ability to instantly correct mistakes. But that will hopefully be toned down whenever us peasants get the newer AI model.
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Stefano Casillo is working on that. Having too reactive AI after collision let you think that their car are sticking to the road :)
 
In MODs cars, there is an open text file named AI. There are three lines that are gain options: Throttle gain, steer gain and ultra grip (which is a grip gain). I already tested them, they dont work linear but they do work. The Kunos cars are encripted but they likely work in the same way. So indeed there is a perfomance gain for the IA, even on straight line.
 
Vendrah
In MODs cars, there is an open text file named AI. There are three lines that are gain options: Throttle gain, steer gain and ultra grip (which is a grip gain). I already tested them, they dont work linear but they do work. The Kunos cars are encripted but they likely work in the same way. So indeed there is a perfomance gain for the IA, even on straight line.
Click to expand...
Have you been able to tune the AI on some mod cars so that they perform much closer to your ability by using the various gain options combined with the overall settings?
 
Johnnypenso
Do you have the console version now? It's been bandied about the forums that the AI are around version 1.5 from pc, that's where the info comes from. I don't think anyone has a definitive answer unless it came directly from one of the developers.

If you want to have a conversation with TT92 because you trust him I suggest you take it to PM, otherwise the rest of us will chime in as we see fit.
Click to expand...
You would have to have a console first Johnny.
 
Johnnypenso
Have you been able to tune the AI on some mod cars so that they perform much closer to your ability by using the various gain options combined with the overall settings?
Click to expand...
I never did it directly. I usually like to play with several different cars. I am not a big fan of one make. In some spot cases, there was some cars that were weirdly better than others and the reason was that they got tôo high gains. In others I noticed that the AÍ could do much better than I in a specific car because of excessive gain. The opposite happened too: The AÍ with poor perfomance were due tô too low gains. It doenst explain every case but it does explain some cases. Normal gains in steer and throttle are around 2.0. As I said it is not linear, só a 2.0 throttle gain doesnt mean double horsepower but it does mean extra HPs (or maybe less drag).
 
Vendrah
In MODs cars, there is an open text file named AI. There are three lines that are gain options: Throttle gain, steer gain and ultra grip (which is a grip gain). I already tested them, they dont work linear but they do work. The Kunos cars are encripted but they likely work in the same way. So indeed there is a perfomance gain for the IA, even on straight line.
Click to expand...

Vendrah
I never did it directly. I usually like to play with several different cars. I am not a big fan of one make. In some spot cases, there was some cars that were weirdly better than others and the reason was that they got tôo high gains. In others I noticed that the AÍ could do much better than I in a specific car because of excessive gain. The opposite happened too: The AÍ with poor perfomance were due tô too low gains. It doenst explain every case but it does explain some cases. Normal gains in steer and throttle are around 2.0. As I said it is not linear, só a 2.0 throttle gain doesnt mean double horsepower but it does mean extra HPs (or maybe less drag).
Click to expand...


I have seen this when I was helping someone here with a mod car in AC ( I only have car data files that I work with ). Interesting use of those gains, so with different AI level in PC, these gains are altered by the game in real time when playing or there are several gains preset for different AI level ? Also of interest is the ultra grip parameter, I didn't see this in the mod car data I had been given ( maybe due to older version )


[HEADER]
VERSION=2

[GEARS]
UP=8100 ; Upchange gear at value RPM (also used for automatic gearbox assist)
DOWN=4500 ; Downshift gear at value RPM (also used for automatic gearbox assist)
SLIP_THRESHOLD=1.1 ; Slipratio permitted for AI driving
GAS_CUTOFF_TIME=0.28 ; Gearchange time needed for AI control

[PEDALS]
GASGAIN=2.0
BRAKE_HINT=0.91
TRAIL_HINT=0.72

[STEER]
STEER_GAIN=2.21

[LOOKAHEAD]
BASE=21.2



GAS_BRAKE_LOOKAHEAD=3

Right now, what I could think of in console is there are several AI.ini files for each car, for different AI levels.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
I have seen this when I was helping someone here with a mod car in AC ( I only have car data files that I work with ). Interesting use of those gains, so with different AI level in PC, these gains are altered by the game in real time when playing or there are several gains preset for different AI level ? Also of interest is the ultra grip parameter, I didn't see this in the mod car data I had been given ( maybe due to older version )


[HEADER]
VERSION=2

[GEARS]
UP=8100 ; Upchange gear at value RPM (also used for automatic gearbox assist)
DOWN=4500 ; Downshift gear at value RPM (also used for automatic gearbox assist)
SLIP_THRESHOLD=1.1 ; Slipratio permitted for AI driving
GAS_CUTOFF_TIME=0.28 ; Gearchange time needed for AI control

[PEDALS]
GASGAIN=2.0
BRAKE_HINT=0.91
TRAIL_HINT=0.72

[STEER]
STEER_GAIN=2.21

[LOOKAHEAD]
BASE=21.2



GAS_BRAKE_LOOKAHEAD=3

Right now, what I could think of in console is there are several AI.ini files for each car, for different AI levels.
Click to expand...

I have been far from my computer, so I can't access an ultragrip example now, only next week. Been writing through phone that's why "AÍ" and not AI, but I added an English dictionary to it today. And I am sorry for my mistake, it is gas gain and not throttle gain.

I don't really got your question, but... as far as I know, I could be wrong, AI level has nothing to do with gains. Gains are managed on the files of the car (AI ini one) and AÍ level is manageable in game by your settings on the race. On console, every car has it own gains but maybe Kunos set all its cars to a same quantity of gains, 2.21 steer gain for example. Or maybe not. I can't really know because even on PC Kunos cars are all encrypted.
 
Sorry for double posting, but here it is an Ultra Grip example (AI.ini):

[HEADER]

VERSION=3


[GEARS]

UP=8500

DOWN=6000

SLIP_THRESHOLD=0.95

GAS_CUTOFF_TIME=0.190


[PEDALS]

GASGAIN=4.0

BRAKE_HINT=0.86

TRAIL_HINT=0.3


[LOOKAHEAD]

BASE=18

SPEED_GAIN=0.10

GAS_BRAKE_LOOKAHEAD=10


[STEER]

STEER_GAIN=1.6


[DRAG]

SLIP_RATIO_LIMIT=10

[ULTRA_GRIP]

VALUE=1.2

[PHYSICS_HINTS]

AERO_HINT=1
 

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