Aston Martin for sale

[Poverty]

DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. says it will consider selling its Aston Martin luxury car unit.

The company said today that it has begun exploring strategic options for Aston Martin with emphasis on the potential sale of all or a portion of the business.

"As part of our ongoing strategic review, we have determined that Aston Martin may be an attractive opportunity to raise capital and generate value," Ford CEO Bill Ford said in a statement. "(The) Aston Martin Lagonda has flourished under Ford ownership, which is why we believe it is prudent to consider a sale of all or part of this prized brand."

The statement went on to say that Aston Martin is the "most logical and capital-smart divestiture choice" of Ford's brands because its dealer network, product architecture and size are distinct.

The sale of Aston Martin also would enable Ford Motor to efficiently raise capital to support its other brands, the statement said.

Ford Motor has made no decisions on the fate of its other Premier Automotive Group brands, Bill Ford said. The automaker's strategic review of those brands continues.

"We continue to be encouraged by Jaguar's progress and by the strength and consumer appeal of the Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo product lineup," Bill Ford said.

Ford Motor acquired 75 percent of Aston Martin in 1987. It increased its ownership to 100 percent in 1994. While Ford Motor doesn't break out specific results for each PAG brand, Aston Martin is profitable and has been for some time, Ford spokesman Tom Hoyt said.

Jaguar was rumoured to be for sale, then there was an article floating about volvo being bundled in some deal and now its aston martin.

VAG I bet would love to buy them, but they have bugatti, lamborghi and bentley already. They could slot aston between bentley and lambo, but either way they do it they will be overlaping models. BMW I bet would be a forerunner aswell, along with some japanese companies.

 

[JCE]

If VAG buys AM that might water down the brand (Aston Martin). I LOVE VAG but seriously...how many times must a company compete with itself? If BMW buys AM that might be ok...as long as they leave it untouched. But the Britishness of AM might be lost if a German car company buys them. Ford should just keep them and Jaguar. Or sell AM to Renault/Nissan...yea I just inserted my Nissan bias right there.

 

[TS]

Aston Martin and Jaguar need to be independent, or sell themselves to Rover.

 

[TopHat]

Rover is dead, It was bought out by Chery, or someother chinese company.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Watch GM pick up Aston and cram a 7.0L LS7 under the hood of the Vantage, lol...

Anyway, it is a story of concern for me. I dearly love Jaguar and Aston, and seeing them leave the company that had essentially "rebuilt" these British brands would be very hard on me. Of course, it would be great to see them indipendent once again, as the UK has what, only TVR, Aerial, and Chaterham as an indie brand?

 

[TS]

...Watch GM pick up Aston and cram a 7.0L LS7 under the hood of the Vantage, lol...

Rover is dead, It was bought out by Chery, or someother chinese company.

 

[YSSMAN]

But seriously though...

VAG is the only company I can see Aston "fitting in" with from Europe, but given the current position of Audi and Lamborghini, it is doubtfull they would pick up Aston.

There really isn't a good way "out" of this situation, as almost any major automotive chain could effectively ruin everything that was made right with Aston. In the hands of a British owner or operator I could see things working out well, but the company needs money... Lots of it... to stay in operation, and unfortunately only Germans and Americans have that kind of money to spend right now...

 

[harrytuttle]

"VAG", "overlap", "self competition"...it all means the same thing to me. Weren't Jaguar and Aston Martin part of the profitable divisions of Ford? Why sell them? Or is this the usual American approach of going for the quick buck and the hell with any long term goals? I really liked the way AM & Jag were heading under Ford, and considering the increasing sales numbers I wasn't the only one. I can't think of any company that could benefit from buying either (well, except GM, but I can't see that as anything but a disaster).

If it's not broken, don't #$%&@$ fix it!!

 

[Danny]

If VAG buys AM that might water down the brand (Aston Martin). I LOVE VAG but seriously...how many times must a company compete with itself? If BMW buys AM that might be ok...as long as they leave it untouched. But the Britishness of AM might be lost if a German car company buys them. Ford should just keep them and Jaguar. Or sell AM to Renault/Nissan...yea I just inserted my Nissan bias right there.

I'm biased to Renault, so we balance out nicely there.

 

[Dave A]

...Watch GM pick up Aston and cram a 7.0L LS7 under the hood of the Vantage, lol...

Don't scare people like that.

 

[Poverty]

Sports car or bling? Aston Martin debate starts


Fri Sep 1, 2006 1:47 PM BST136

By Michael Shields, European Auto Correspondent

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Does the fact that James Bond drove one with tyre-shredding hubcap blades, machine guns and an ejector seat make the Aston Martin car the ultimate luxury accessory?

Or is it the British brand's racing heritage and high performance credentials that make it an iconic sports car?

That is the question potential buyers will have to address as struggling U.S. carmaker Ford Motor Co puts Aston Martin on the auction block.

"Anything is possible," said Stephen Cheetham, car sector analyst at Sanford Bernstein.

"If anybody decides they want it, the prices start to get extremely silly. Rationally, it is worth less than $1 billion (530 million pounds) and quite a lot less than $1 billion. Irrationally, it may be worth as much as $2 billion," he added.

"It is one of those assets where you might be surprised where the interest comes from," said one investment banker who follows the auto sector closely.

He called Aston Martin an unusual and rare asset that combines elements of luxury and engineering. He thought a buyer intent on expanding the brand could pay around $1 billion for it.

French luxury goods firm LVMH denied suggestions that it or Swiss rival Richemont could be interested in buying Aston Martin, which Ford said on Thursday it may sell to raise funds for other businesses.

While fashionable LVMH head Bernard Arnault may cut a dashing, James Bond-like figure, his spokesman said a report in industry publication CAR online he was eyeing Aston martin was "wrong". Richemont had no comment.

WHO'S NEXT?

Ford's portfolio of European-based luxury car brands has fallen well short of its optimistic projections. Its PAG unit, which includes Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo and Aston Martin, lost $162 million in the second quarter before one-off items.

As it loses U.S. market share and high fuel prices undercut sales of its high-margin sport utility vehicles and trucks, Ford is still weighing what to do with the other European brands.

Cheetham said he thought German sports car maker Porsche would be an ideal buyer for Aston Martin, a brand positioned above the classic Porsche 911 model line.

"Porsche have a bit of a conundrum. With all the growth they are planning they are still moving down market really and they will be doing well over 100,000 units," he reasoned.

"Aston Martin, with its 4,500 units (in 2005 sales), is much more exclusive, it's much more premium than Porsche. The two brands stand for quite different things, but Porsche -- unlike LVMH or Richemont -- actually understands engineering."

A Porsche spokesman said buying Aston Martin "is not an option" for the carmaker with the automotive world's fattest profit margins.

DaimlerChrysler, whose premium division includes the elegant Mercedes-Benz and ultra-luxury Maybach limousine brands, also said it was not interested in Aston Martin.

British machinery group JCB, which said last week it was interested in Jaguar, ruled out buying Aston Martin.

JPMorgan Chase private equity arm One Equity Partners -- where former Ford CEO Jacques Nasser is a partner -- is also interested in some of Ford's European brands.

In any event, selling Aston Martin is seen as a small but interesting deal for a sector struggling with slack demand and chronic overcapacity that stokes margin-eroding price wars.

"This little transaction doesn't really define an industry, while Renault could," the investment banker said.

He was referring to talks that could add General Motors to the carmaking alliance between France's Renault and Japan's Nissan Motor Co.

Ford is waiting in the wings to meet Renault/Nissan Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn if the GM talks break down.

Should Ghosn link up with a big U.S. carmaker, "it will make everyone think about what it means for them", the banker said.

Source: Reuters

 

[Tornado]

Yes yes, we all know that Aston and Jaguar are blowing away Ford's needed capital, but to sell them now would be to admit that the billions of dollars spent on both (and I do believe that Jaguar is somewhat near 10 billion when the disaster of an F1 program is considered) was a stupid mistake. In all honesty, Ford can't afford to sell Jaguar, so that should be debunked. But Aston? I don't know if selling it would be very good for either company. Aston's are so intertwined in Ford's parts bin that they need Ford to operate. Ford relies on the Aston Martin brand rather heavily to show class and power that Jaguar cannot show. Interesting.
One thing is for sure: If Aston is bought by Porsche (because I take what they say to the public with a grain of salt), the V8 is dead. There is no way that even the champ of positioning cars can work their way around the V8 sitting rather profusely between the Carrera models.
If Renault picks up Aston, all holdings that GM has been having against them would end and Ford would be screwed mightily. In addition, GM can afford to have Aston pitted against them, as the Corvette can compete with it quite nicely. Ford cannot, and it's likely that the future owners of the brand would most likely go all out to try to fight the Jag XK.

 

[harrytuttle]

One thing is for sure: If Aston is bought by Porsche (because I take what they say to the public with a grain of salt), the V8 is dead. There is no way that even the champ of positioning cars can work their way around the V8 sitting rather profusely between the Carrera models.

Why is that? Can't they just grab a V8 from VAG like they did with the Cayenne? What's wrong with putting in the RS4's V8? Similar displacement, similarly high-revving, similar output....

 

[Poverty]

Yes yes, we all know that Aston and Jaguar are blowing away Ford's needed capital, but to sell them now would be to admit that the billions of dollars spent on both (and I do believe that Jaguar is somewhat near 10 billion when the disaster of an F1 program is considered) was a stupid mistake. In all honesty, Ford can't afford to sell Jaguar, so that should be debunked. But Aston? I don't know if selling it would be very good for either company. Aston's are so intertwined in Ford's parts bin that they need Ford to operate. Ford relies on the Aston Martin brand rather heavily to show class and power that Jaguar cannot show. Interesting.
One thing is for sure: If Aston is bought by Porsche (because I take what they say to the public with a grain of salt), the V8 is dead. There is no way that even the champ of positioning cars can work their way around the V8 sitting rather profusely between the Carrera models.
If Renault picks up Aston, all holdings that GM has been having against them would end and Ford would be screwed mightily. In addition, GM can afford to have Aston pitted against them, as the Corvette can compete with it quite nicely. Ford cannot, and it's likely that the future owners of the brand would most likely go all out to try to fight the Jag XK.

No it wouldnt. The V8 would be made more luxurious, and positioned as a more luxury-touring alternative to the 911. Porsche dont really have a tourer/gt car at the moment, and I dont think they would have any trouble at all positioning the V8.

Porsche the drivers choice.
Aston the posers choice.

 

[Tornado]

Why is that? Can't they just grab a V8 from VAG like they did with the Cayenne? What's wrong with putting in the RS4's V8? Similar displacement, similarly high-revving, similar output....

No, not the engine. The car. The V8 Vantage.

No it wouldnt. The V8 would be made more luxurious, and positioned as a more luxury-touring alternative to the 911. Porsche dont really have a tourer/gt car at the moment, and I dont think they would have any trouble at all positioning the V8.

What about the rumors of the Panamera and revived 928? They wouldn't compete well with the V8 and Rapide.

Porsche the drivers choice.
Aston the posers choice.

That's just so ironic considering that Porsche is in the amazingly enviable financial position because they sell mostly posuer's cars.

 

[Layla's Keeper]

Perhaps, it's not a European concern (or at least a wholly European concern) that would most benefit from Aston Martin ownership.

Consider DaimlerChrysler as an owner. Currently, their brands have little to no overlap with Aston Martin. Look at it this way.

Vanquish - getting long in the tooth, top of the range in price and performance, much pricier than the Viper, but also contains levels of sophistication and luxury that the Viper could never (and, to maintain its image, shall never) contain. Mercedes-Benz's big SL's possibly compare, but are even further to the luxury side of image than the Vanquish, which head-on's Ferrari's 599GTB.

DB9 - a ravishing beauty with a big V12, it sidles up against the big SL coupes at Mercedes-Benz, but maintains a distinctly different image especially with its success in racing the world over (Le Mans, FIA GT3, Speed World Challenge). Nothing in the Yankee side of the range even comes close either.

AMV8 - small, nimble, classy, it's a pretty FR Porsche 911 Carrer that's easy to love. Fortunately, again there is no to little overlap, as only the Mercedes-Benz SLK/Chrysler Crossfire range is similar, and those cars are far more "weekender" than the AMV8. The proposed Firepower! could be considered a competitor, but it still remains a concept at this time. Also, the Dodge Challenger is too far beneath it in price and too far below it in image to be considered.

Couple to this the McLaren connection (great for suspension research, just ask GNX owners) and Ilmor engines, plus Chrysler's knack for sharing parts bins, and the fact that DaimlerChrysler has been on a steady rise for the past few years, and I think they'd make a fine carrier of the Aston Martin torch.

 

[YSSMAN]

Offically, the Vanquish is dead after the 2006 model year... So thats one less model to worry about, as the DBRS9 would just overlap further with the Vanquish S.

---

An Audi-powered Aston? Not if I can help it. The RS4's V8 may be a nice piece of work, but it can't match the "glory" of American and British engine design. The big, powerful engines are perfect for cars like that, as they rely on torque and horsepower, not a combination of horsepower and high RPMS to get the job done...

 

[Poverty]

That's just so ironic considering that Porsche is in the amazingly enviable financial position because they sell mostly posuer's cars.

Just because a car isnt as fast in a straight line as its looks or pricetag would suggest doesnt make it a posers cars. No car cant match porsches for its driving dynamics other than the much much more expensive ferraris. The only poser in porsches lineup is the cayenne, but aston doesnt make a SUV so thats redundant.

That's just so ironic considering that Porsche is in the amazingly enviable financial position because they sell mostly posuer's cars.

The RS4 unit has more power and torque than the current engine in the aston V8.

 

[Dave A]

And it produces that power higher in the rev band. If Aston wanted the V8 Vantage to have 420bhp they could have easilly got that power from it, it's been given under 400bhp for a reason, the set it as the bottom model. That said there are far worse choices for an engine than that Audi V8, but I don't think it's refined enough for the Aston, though that can be worked on.

 

[Poverty]

And it produces that power higher in the rev band. If Aston wanted the V8 Vantage to have 420bhp they could have easilly got that power from it, it's been given under 400bhp for a reason, the set it as the bottom model. That said there are far worse choices for an engine than that Audi V8, but I don't think it's refined enough for the Aston, though that can be worked on.

Aston martin V8

Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 380(283) / 7000
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 302(410) / 5000

Audi RS4

Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 420(323) / 7800
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 317(430) / 5500

Developing a maximum output of 420 bhp, the V8 revs up to a speed of 8250 rpm. With its displacement of 4163 cc, this engine exceeds the magical barrier of 100 bhp per litre - truly outstanding in a production saloon. Maximum torque of 317 lb-ft comes at 5500 rpm in this very compact engine, with 90 per cent of the engine’s torque consistently available between 2250 and 7600 rpm. The result is excellent muscle and pulling force at all times, enabling the driver whenever he – or she – wishes to drive in truly relaxed style without frequent gear changes.

According to top gear, the V8 has to be driven hard to get the most of it, and it isnt all that fast.

 

[Poverty]

On today's meeting BMW supervisory board (=SB) agreed wih Board of Directors that exact & detailed analysis should be made about possible AM acquisation (price, costs, manufacturing, development, marketing, design, synergy, finacial aspects etc). So when this analysis will be made in a few weeks it will be presented to SB - and then SB will decide whether to give green light for negotiations with Ford about AM deal or not. Right now all major BMW investors are gathered in Bad Homburg at Quandt's residence.

So, it is not true BMW are not interested in Aston Martin. Spokesman's statement was just a decoy. Of course the real business is going in the background.

They are - but the final decision will be made on 100% rational basis. Nothing irrationally, nothing decided in a hurry. Money is money. I admire the rationality of Quandts - they become much more carful after the Rover debacle.

Also - what is still unknown to general public: Ford do not want to sell complete 100% stake in Aston Martin but want to withhold some stake in AM. This was initial proposal. And BMW AG are not interested in such deal. 1005 or nothing. So if Ford persists in such deal, BMW will not sztart negotiations at all (in the case the analysis shows positive results & SB gives a green light). Also BMW are not very happy Ford has gone public announcement about AM deal. Germans are more conservative in this way and do not want to go public about anything until something is 100% certain.

So ... Gentelmen, this story is far from being over. I'm sure the AM news will be very interesting in the following weeks / months.

 

[Poverty]

UBS wins mandate to sell Aston Martin

Fri Sep 1, 2006 7:56 PM BST

LONDON (Reuters) - UBS has won the coveted mandate to advise Ford Motor Co. on the sale of luxury car brand Aston Martin, the Swiss bank said on Friday.

Aston Martin, made famous on the big screen in the 1960s as James Bond's car of choice, this week became the latest British auto brand to face a shake-up after its U.S. owner said it may offload the iconic brand.

Ford said it had been approached by potential buyers for Aston Martin, which builds cars in the Midlands, an area hit hard in recent years by job cuts and plant closures among car makers. However, unlike some of its struggling peers, analysts said the luxury carmaker should have no problem attracting buyers lured by the string of celebrities who drive the model.

One source close the matter said the sale process was still at a very early stage and bankers were due to fly to Ford's headquarters in Dearborn, Michigan, next week to discuss it. Names in the bidding frame already include German sports car maker Porsche AG and luxury goods groups such as Paris-based LVMH and other carmakers in Japan, China and Russia, as well as cash-rich hedge funds and private equity groups. JCB, a maker of construction and excavation vehicles, is also seen as a potential bidder after it said last week it was interested in Jaguar, another Ford luxury brand. The private equity arm of U.S. bank JP Morgan Chase & Co., is among the potential buyers of Ford's luxury brands, people familiar with the matter have previously said.

 

[Tornado]

Just because a car isnt as fast in a straight line as its looks or pricetag would suggest doesnt make it a posers cars. No car cant match porsches for its driving dynamics other than the much much more expensive ferraris. The only poser in porsches lineup is the cayenne, but aston doesnt make a SUV so thats redundant.

Actually, the Boxster and Cayenne are both posuer cars, as both (the base level ones) are bought by every ass who just wants to be seen in a Porsche. The upper level versions (Cayenne Turbo S) are real Porsches, but the lower level ones (Boxter 2.7, Cayenne V6 and S) are just caars bought for attention.

According to top gear, the V8 has to be driven hard to get the most of it, and it isnt all that fast.

That's because as an Aston made after 1960 it is heavy as all hell.

 

[Poverty]

Actually, the Boxster and Cayenne are both posuer cars, as both (the base level ones) are bought by every ass who just wants to be seen in a Porsche. The upper level versions (Cayenne Turbo S) are real Porsches, but the lower level ones (Boxter 2.7, Cayenne V6 and S) are just caars bought for attention.

That's because as an Aston made after 1960 it is heavy as all hell.

1. Thats not true at all about the boxster and the S models cause eitehr way you look at it they are still argauably the best handling cars in the world, and I can quote people who have had M3's etc, who have said that porsches are ina completely different league all together.

But then again I suppose you would require corners to appreciate that

The V8 aston isnt really heavy, infact for its class it does very well, the engine lets it down, and if BMW get their hands on aston it will be a head on porsche fighter, whilst being more exclusive.

 

[Tornado]

1. Thats not true at all about the boxster and the S models cause eitehr way you look at it they are still argauably the best handling cars in the world, and I can quote people who have had M3's etc, who have said that porsches are ina completely different league all together.

That's all well and good, but it matters as much in this case as it does to the Miata. Yeah, people will buy them because they are good handling cars. But a larger percentage of people will buy them because they are merely morons who want to buy into the brand the cheapest way possible without getting used so they can show off their cars. The Porsche Boxster 2.7 and Porsche Cayenne V6 being bought for the prestige of the 911 directly parallel the Hummer H2 and H3 in relation to the Hummer H1.

 

[Dave A]

I can vouch for the Cayman and the Boxster being posers cars, yes they are fantastic cars but the people that I see day in, day out driving them, are posers and nothing more.

 

[McLaren]

I can vouch for the Cayman and the Boxster being posers cars, yes they are fantastic cars but the people that I see day in, day out driving them, are posers and nothing more.

Maybe a Boxster, but a Cayman S is no poser car.

Plus, it hurt when you said that since I've been looking at leasing a Cayman lately.

 

[Dave A]

Is that defined by who drive it? If the people who drive it are posers which I can assure you, around here they are, then isn't that car by definition "a posers car". As great as the car may be and I do appreciate that not everyone who drives one is at the wheel because it's a Porsche they can afford rather than because it's a damn good drivers car, an awful lot of people who own them in my area are people who've recently got rid of the Boxster or TT and had them just to pose in.

 

[JCE]

That's all well and good, but it matters as much in this case as it does to the Miata. Yeah, people will buy them because they are good handling cars. But a larger percentage of people will buy them because they are merely morons who want to buy into the brand the cheapest way possible without getting used so they can show off their cars. The Porsche Boxster 2.7 and Porsche Cayenne V6 being bought for the prestige of the 911 directly parallel the Hummer H2 and H3 in relation to the Hummer H1.

You sir are 100% correct. I feel the same way about the BASE MODEL 3-series and the Merc C-series. But, I exempt the TT because it's a great car that serves a purpose, that being to compete directly with the likes of the 350Z and RX8...and doing it well enough to warrant being exempt in my eyes.

 

[Poverty]

I can vouch for the Cayman and the Boxster being posers cars, yes they are fantastic cars but the people that I see day in, day out driving them, are posers and nothing more.

For all we know the so called posers could be driving their beloved porsche spiritly on weekends. I had a debate about this on another forum where several Evo and Scooby drivers were calling porsche driver posers, because they will never race them. Then the porsche owners turned up and explained and I shall quote as I cant tell the story very well.

Why is this surprising ? Most scoob owners are "enthusiasts", interested in whats good for their car, and always seeking new information in the best way to maintain their pride and joy. IMO 99% of Porsche owners have no interest in whats under the bonnet nor have any idea there are differing types of fuel to choose from.
You should have asked him what capacity it was, to which i'm sure the reply would have been "Just put about 50 litres in it" or What brake is it running ? "Red one's mate".
You'd see 5 or 6 Porsche's in my neighbourhood before i saw a scoob, yet never ever seen a Porsche owner with his foot down, making the most of probably the most over-engineered car in history. Apparently Porsche's next model is actually called the mid-life crisis.
On the recent Sussex meet i was being followed by a My95 who didn't know the area. We both pulled up at lights next to a 911 Carrera, totally disinterested, i'd just once like to actually see what these cars are capable of even if they smoke me completely and make my pride and joy look like a kids toy. Had it been a Supra/Evo/M3/Skyline theres no doubt we'd have had some fun on some quiet roads on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Yet most Porsche owners seem to think they are "above" everyone else.
Months ago i followed 2 Gt3's through a local industrial estate again on a quiet Sunday. Although at the lights they loved revving the life out of them rarely did they actually go above 3000rpm, then they actually arrived at a local Porsche Racing Specialist. I thought "Whats the ****ing point!".
My Mum's next-door-neighbour has an old 911, which is only used on Sundays, when he and his wife put on their matching Porsche jackets and baseball caps (I kid you not) and dare to hit 50mph on the queens highway.

In short i hate Porsche owners for having more money than sense, for actually thinking their car may finally get them laid cos their personality certainly wouldn't. Apologies to the other 1% of Porsche owners who probably are genuine enthusiasts and own one for reasons other than to make them feel like they actually have something useful in their pants.

*Rant Over lol*

As for Porches not racing every Scoob at the lights - to think it is because they think they are above or below anybody is ridiculous. Maybe they just want to enjoy the car on their own and don't feel the need to 'prove themselves' or the need the have the fastest car.

There are a huge number of Porsches on track days and driver development days. Speak to Don Palmer, lots and lots of his customers are Porsche and Ferrari drivers. It is the Subaru and Evo drivers who think they are too good to learn to drive properly. They let the disproportionate grip of super sticky tyres on four wheel drive let them think that they are far better drivers than they actually are.

All i've heard so far is "They are great at track days". Surely someone with the money to buy a Gt3 and risk crashing it would be able to afford a nice little ford fiesta for their everyday driving. Sorry but they are used on the road for posing purposes only, and if your going to pose then do it in style.
As for driver training i would jump at the chance to better my skills, if a) i had the money, b)the time, c)was in close proximaty to a track. Never-the-less if anyone can suggest an upcoming event i will improve, I would never be arrogant enough to say just because i know where the accelerator is then i am the best driver in the world, or more knowledgable than a Porsche owner.

All i said is i've yet to see a Porsche owner using their £50k+ car in the way it was designed and made for, anyone care to share a differing opinion ?

Go to a decent track such as Brands on a non Novaboys or Fast Car day and you'll see a variety of top marque motors being ragged by their owners. Re: your comments about porka drivers being arrogant (above everyone else) you are wrong. Its the other road drivers getting green and perceiving the porka drivers to be arrogant. Normally when they are sitting on the 100k+ cars bumper trying to make the driver 'rag' it too!

All I know is go and buy a 100k motor and then see if your driving style changes in anyway ... reflecting the fact you have something that is worth nearly as much as a flat in some areas!

As mentioned above, a Scooby, Evo, etc are very good at what they do, but just reading `Evo Magazine` shows that the Porsche is soo much more than a Scoob. Driving dynamics, feel, handling etc are what a Porsche is better than probably most other cars.

I find it interesting that the '911' is always the car in the cross hair of (any) other car at the lights.

The whole scenario makes me cringe with embarrasment.

The 911 is a car for so many people.
A cruiser, a 'Ring basher, a mid-life treat, a realisation of a school boy dream, bait for other fab cars/drivers/heros.

Why not a TVR?
Ferrari?
Noble?
Audi RS4 V8 (cheaper!)

The fact that the iconic 911 is on so many peoples list, right at the top, must say how good it is as most want to shoot it down.

It represents so much to so many.

I've really enjoyed mine for 18 years, all blood sweat and tears and great memories, doubt my Sti will leave such a mark on me.

More to add but Im saving it for a certain thread which we vote for the best car ever