ATAQ - a time trial experiment

  • Thread starter Gorefast
  • 297 comments
  • 18,675 views

Test Poll about the track of next round of ATAQ

  • Road Atlanta

    Votes: 6 50.0%

  • Suzuka short

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • Brands hatch GP

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • something different

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
Gorefast
Would a shorter running period be helpful? If I remember correctly it was @bliprunner who suggested only two weeks instead of four. My idea was to create no stress in combination with regular time trials and real life.
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I think that has pros and cons:
A 2 week peroid could mean some players can't participate, because they don't have the time for it.
A 4 week period is quite long and some could loose interest if nothing new happens.
It's difficult! I'd say you @Gorefast decide what it will be. You'll never make everybody happy!
 
I like the current power/weight rules because it produces some truly great feeling road cars with a myriad different tuning philosophies. It also gives me an excuse to keep using the Sports Tires :P

I am not sure how to keep the current meta cars in check. Perhaps to spice things up, we can limit the road car participants to certain years / eras as mentioned above. We could also focus on a specific region of manufacturers for a challenge. The drawback to that would be diminishing the open nature of this challenge.

The length of the event is fine to me. It gives us time to set up and test the cars.

I know Front Wheel Drive cars will always be slower / have zero chance of being fastest overall, but I wish there was something we could do to bring them closer to the other classes without taking anything away from those classes.
 
ATTENTION!!!
The silence in this thread screams "boring!" and that's not why we are here. Thanks to the ongoing experimental status I have decided to add two late changes to round 3:

1. This round will already end one week earlier at 7th of July. (@tmtk , your late entry has to come a bit earlier... 😂)
2. The RWD class is open only for britisch Cars (No VGT). (Sorry for not being sorry @911RSR !😉)

I will update message no.2 and hope that you can agree on this. (There should be one or two conbinations that Not even @rheinaoi has built so far...)
 
911RSR
Does that mean i have to change my name? 😜

Well, i can live with that. Just to make that clear, with "british" you mean without the colonies? 😁

So, Jaaaaag it will be 😎
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Yes, but I miss the XK. Lotus would be perfect as IRL. Maybe even the Lotus Omega?!?

@rheinaoi : I was thinking about to force you driving the TVR as a handicap but maybe it is actually good?

We will take care of the FWD class for round 4...
 
Oooh, I take that as encouragement to do unspeakable tuning things to a Mclaren F1! It won't be fast though. Neither will a V12 Jaaaag XJ220, but I still want to drive them.

I think we will soon remember that the Vantage '18 exists and that it is quite good. Same for the Jaaaag F-Type with either engine. Meanwhile, the Sierra Cosworth Escort is left sulking in the corner thanks to the double edged sword of GT7 considering it a USA car. :lol:

@Gorefast Noooooo, I don't want to drive the TVR! That car was super annoying to tune and drive. The updates probably made it better, but my pain lingers:lol:

@Meythia: I feel the same. Which Lotus would I drive? Yes.
 
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Gorefast
ATTENTION!!!
The silence in this thread screams "boring!" and that's not why we are here. Thanks to the ongoing experimental status I have decided to add two late changes to round 3:

1. This round will already end one week earlier at 7th of July. (@tmtk , your late entry has to come a bit earlier... 😂)
2. The RWD class is open only for britisch Cars (No VGT). (Sorry for not being sorry @911RSR !😉)

I will update message no.2 and hope that you can agree on this. (There should be one or two conbinations that Not even @rheinaoi has built so far...)
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Limiting to only 10 RWD cars which are very sameish...I guess I'm out for this round or will stick to 4WD.
 
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I've done two rounds of testing with an over-weight Mclaren F1 and the Brothers Bugatti. I'll test the previous fastest cars later.

Mclaren F1 - May Gordon Murray forgive me
2934lb / 501hp [1330kg / 373kw]
1:28.5

Second run. I found some more time, otherwise, the Brothers Bugatti would have been 1 second quicker. Easy to rotate and engaging.

It will never be the fastest, but it's fun to drive.

Gordon Murray's Response:
bald.gif


Bugatti Veyron - Trying to be less disappointing.
3300lb / 571hp [ 1497kg / 425.7kw ]
1:27.8

Good all around car. Mostly neutral with some oversteer on braking if provoked. Currently the quickest, but that's because I've only tested 3 cars :lol:

Bugatti Chiron - Wait... how much does this car weigh?
4405lb / 764hp [1998kg / 569.7kw] :lol:
1:27.9

The Chiron shouldn't be going around corners this quickly, but I felt physics catching up with it in the slow turns. Not. Enough. Front. Downforce.:grumpy:

I will do the TVRs will be next... {help me]
 
rheinaoi
I've done two rounds of testing with an over-weight Mclaren F1 and the Brothers Bugatti. I'll test the previous fastest cars later.

Mclaren F1 - May Gordon Murray forgive me
2934lb / 501hp [1330kg / 373kw]
1:28.5

Second run. I found some more time, otherwise, the Brothers Bugatti would have been 1 second quicker. Easy to rotate and engaging.

It will never be the fastest, but it's fun to drive.

Gordon Murray's Response:
View attachment 1458982

Bugatti Veyron - Trying to be less disappointing.
3300lb / 571hp [ 1497kg / 425.7kw ]
1:27.8

Good all around car. Mostly neutral with some oversteer on braking if provoked. Currently the quickest, but that's because I've only tested 3 cars :lol:

Bugatti Chiron - Wait... how much does this car weigh?
4405lb / 764hp [1998kg / 569.7kw] :lol:
1:27.9

The Chiron shouldn't be going around corners this quickly, but I felt physics catching up with it in the slow turns. Not. Enough. Front. Downforce.:grumpy:

I will do the TVRs will be next... {help me]
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Please forgive me to be the "fun stopper", but Bugatti isn't british! The factory is located in the french Alsace, burning money from VW 😁
 
911RSR
Please forgive me to be the "fun stopper", but Bugatti isn't british! The factory is located in the french Alsace, burning money from VW 😁
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That was my first thought, too, but it is still quite early and Bugatti is an AWD vehicle.

My first run was also with the McLaren 650 as I already had a wild build I only had to adjust in regards of power-weight-ratio. But... it took a lot longer! 😂 Congrats @rheinaoi to that early times!
 
911RSR
Please forgive me to be the "fun stopper", but Bugatti isn't british! The factory is located in the french Alsace, burning money from VW 😁
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I interpreted the rules as the RWD class is UK only. The FWD and 4WD classes are still open.

If the rules become UK for everything (also no VGTs), then there would be no cars for either the FWD or 4WD classes!

We don't even get the classic Mini because GT7 classifies that as a German car. Try it. You can enter the Schwarzwald League races with one :lol: Additionally, both Escorts are classified as USA.
 
rheinaoi
I interpreted the rules as the RWD class is UK only. The FWD and 4WD classes are still open.

If the rules become UK for everything (also no VGTs), then there would be no cars for either the FWD or 4WD classes!

We don't even get the classic Mini because GT7 classifies that as a German car. Try it. You can enter the Schwarzwald League races with one :lol: Additionally, both Escorts are classified as USA.
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I am 100% with you. (That's why it is only a limitation for the RWD class.)
 
I was randomly curios and so I was looking up a few things ...
cw-Wert (aufsteigend):

Opel Calibra 2.0i (1989) – 0,26

Nissan GT-R (R35) – 0,26–0,27

Aston Martin V8 Vantage – 0,28

Jaguar F-Type Coupé (2.0 / V6) – 0,30

Aston Martin DB11 – 0,31

Jaguar F-Type V8 / SVR – 0,31–0,33

Lexus RC F – 0,33

Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) – 0,35–0,36

Porsche 911 GT3 RS (992) – ca. 0,39

Of course this doesnt say anything about racing pace.
 
Meythia
I was randomly curios and so I was looking up a few things ...
cw-Wert (aufsteigend):

Opel Calibra 2.0i (1989) – 0,26

Nissan GT-R (R35) – 0,26–0,27

Aston Martin V8 Vantage – 0,28

Jaguar F-Type Coupé (2.0 / V6) – 0,30

Aston Martin DB11 – 0,31

Jaguar F-Type V8 / SVR – 0,31–0,33

Lexus RC F – 0,33

Porsche 911 GT3 RS (991) – 0,35–0,36

Porsche 911 GT3 RS (992) – ca. 0,39

Of course this doesnt say anything about racing pace.
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I am surprised that the Calibra still looks good in this aspect. At that time they were advertising this number a lot... (Porsche did never mention a single word about air resistance... )
 
Taking the drag data into consideration. I am not surprised the numbers for the R35. It has similar energy to when LMP1s all had refrigerators for front ends. I'm curious to see how the Jags and Astons perform.

At 600pp around Tokyo South, the V8 Vantage was very middle-of-the-pack. Meanwhile, the F-Type was very strong.

Oh and by the way, the TVR only slightly less terrible than I remember.

Edit: I need a Calibra in my life.
 
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Another round of testing and tweaking. I noticed that trail braking helps A LOT here. We're likely going into the 1:25s once people settle into the METAs / their passion projects.

The Fast, the Fun, and the TVR

TVR Tuscan Speed 6 (regular engine) – Hot garbage
498hp / 2866lb [1300kg / 371kw]
1:27.9

Great power and acceleration despite the 5-speed gearbox. However... It's everything that I hate about FR drivetrains in one package. Oversteer on corner exit that you just have to accept. It feels random and edgy. Highly resistant to my tuning. Too little reward for too much driving and tuning effort. And it doesn’t even feel fun to drive.

THE FAST

Jaaaag F-type R – META potential, old school handling, big lazy V8
2934lb / 502hp [1330kg / 374kw]
1:26.8

Still handles like an FR drivetrain, but actually good. Power and grip everywhere. Some oversteer on corner exit, but very easy to manage. Great rotation. The soft and squishy ride on mine took some getting used. Great in high speed corners. My optimal is 1:26.3.

Jaaaag XJ220 (XJ-R9 V12 swap) – When people ask why V12s get so much praise, show them this
2934lbs / 502hp [1330kg / 374kw]
1.27.2

Perfect power delivery. It just builds and builds, and the car just pulls and pulls. Glorious mid engine rotation. Stable in the high speed corners. Would probably be legendary with a 6-speed gearbox. I wish this were the top car.

NISMO 400R (standard engine) – This is why we use 4WD
2934lbs / 504hp [375kw / 1330]
1.27.2

No nonsense track weapon. Neutral. Does everything great. Bonus: It revs to 10k rpm.

THE FUN

Ford F-150 SVT Raptor – Yes, a pickup truck. Unfortunately (fortunately??) not fast
4405lb / 761hp [1998kg / 567kw]
1:28.6

Some sluggish turn-in because of the weight and 0 aero whatsoever. Great at putting the power down and feels wonderful through the rest of a turn.

Toyota Alphard (LFA Swap) – Driving pleasure and a feast for the ears
3399lbs / 587hp [1541kg / 437kw]
1:28.5

Great grip. OK acceleration. Phenomenal braking. Glorious rotation on-power at corner exits. Hopeless on the straightaways. I wish it were quicker.

Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo (Demon-Challenger Swap) – Always the bride’s maid. Never the bride
2979lbs / 514hp [1351kg / 383kw]
1:28.1

Similar 4WD track monster feel as the Alphard LFA above. Responds REALLY well to trail braking. Maybe hampered by the 5 speed transmission. Maybe more weight and power could make it quicker.

Porsche 911 Turbo S 992 – For 911RSR
2937lb / 500hp [1332kg / 372kw]
1.27.5

Brutal 4WD modern 911 competence. Does everything great. Neutral on power exiting corners, but runs surprisingly wide – it often teleported off the track when I dumped the power too early.

I'll post replays and the tunes that I feel confident in next week.
 
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rheinaoi
Another round of testing and tweaking. I noticed that trail braking helps A LOT here. We're likely going into the 1:25s once people settle into the METAs / their passion projects.

The Fast, the Fun, and the TVR

TVR Tuscan Speed 6 (regular engine) – Hot garbage
498hp / 2866lb [1300kg / 371kw]
1:27.9

Great power and acceleration despite the 5-speed gearbox. However... It's everything that I hate about FR drivetrains in one package. Oversteer on corner exit that you just have to accept. It feels random and edgy. Highly resistant to my tuning. Too little reward for too much driving and tuning effort. And it doesn’t even feel fun to drive.

THE FAST

Jaaaag F-type R – META potential, old school handling, big lazy V8
2934lb / 502hp [1330kg / 374kw]
1:26.8

Still handles like an FR drivetrain, but actually good. Power and grip everywhere. Some oversteer on corner exit, but very easy to manage. Great rotation. The soft and squishy ride on mine took some getting used. Great in high speed corners. My optimal is 1:26.3.

Jaaaag XJ220 (XJ-R9 V12 swap) – When people ask why V12s get so much praise, show them this
2934lbs / 502hp [1330kg / 374kw]
1.27.2

Perfect power delivery. It just builds and builds, and the car just pulls and pulls. Glorious mid engine rotation. Stable in the high speed corners. Would probably be legendary with a 6-speed gearbox. I wish this were the top car.

NISMO 400R (standard engine) – This is why we use 4WD
2934lbs / 504hp [375kw / 1330]
1.27.2

No nonsense track weapon. Neutral. Does everything great. Bonus: It revs to 10k rpm.

THE FUN

Ford F-150 SVT Raptor – Yes, a pickup truck. Unfortunately (fortunately??) not fast
4405lb / 761hp [1998kg / 567kw]
1:28.6

Some sluggish turn-in because of the weight and 0 aero whatsoever. Great at putting the power down and feels wonderful through the rest of a turn.

Toyota Alphard (LFA Swap) – Driving pleasure and a feast for the ears
3399lbs / 587hp [1541kg / 437kw]
1:28.5

Great grip. OK acceleration. Phenomenal braking. Glorious rotation on-power at corner exits. Hopeless on the straightaways. I wish it were quicker.

Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo (Demon-Challenger Swap) – Always the bride’s maid. Never the bride
2979lbs / 514hp [1351kg / 383kw]
1:28.1

Similar 4WD track monster feel as the Alphard LFA above. Responds REALLY well to trail braking. Maybe hampered by the 5 speed transmission. Maybe more weight and power could make it quicker.

Porsche 911 Turbo S 992 – For 911RSR
2937lb / 500hp [1332kg / 372kw]
1.27.5

Brutal 4WD modern 911 competence. Does everything great. Neutral on power exiting corners, but runs surprisingly wide – it often teleported off the track when I dumped the power too early.

I'll post replays and the tunes that I feel confident in next week.
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Awesome! 😲 To reach 25 I must use the Indy layout... 😂 So a vid is appreciated to start improving. 👍
 
I started tuning my Jaaag at the weekend. Took some time until i found a setup that feels solid.
But even worse, i suck at Brands Hatch! It's definatly one of the tracks in GT7 i've driven the least.

I'm sitting at 1:28,2 with the F-Type, that's ages behind @rheinaoi :bowdown: .
@Gorefast what about a special rule for @rheinaoi, like a 100Kg ballast, like they did in the DTM or maybe comfort tires🤔? 😜😜😜
But i'm afraid he beats my time even with that! 😁
 
Two replays are up. The Jaaaag and the Aston new hotness Vantage. #ataq #atagrwd #rheinaoi.

Oh, and you all definitely need to try the new hotness Vantage. It [predictably] has god grip, A LOT of torque, puts the power down easily and the rotation was so good that I had to check if the car had 4-wheel steering. It did not! :eek:

Conversely, you DO NOT want to bother with the old Vantage because it is as slow here as it is at 600pp; with tricky oversteer on corner exits.

TRACK OBSERVATIONS
I was hoping that Brands Hatch would be easier than Road Atlanta, but it’s proved to be a different flavor of punishing. The second hairpin onto the long straightaway can make or break your lap, predictably.

Note the turn before it: even with penalties on strong, you can run super duper wide. Does it give an advantage? Not necessarily – you can carry similar speeds through there running a tighter line.

Then the series of high speed rights corners following the hairpin is death by a thousand cuts. The first feels like a long late apex corner where high downforce cars dominate.

Note the second corner in that series – the stewards are watching you – you will invalidate many laps taking too much inside curb. However, at the final right of this series – the blind corner – the stewards allow us to full-send basically the whole car over the inside of that curb:boggled:

TUNING NOTES
My cars may have the same hp, but I try to get them to have as much torque as possible. I do this by reducing power using the Power Restrictor first. This is terrible for PP optimization, but I think it creates cars that better accelerate out of low speed corners. I noticed my Audi R8 was consistently faster out of the big hairpin in Round 2 with this. I think we were doing this intuitively already, but it's probably good that we say it directly.
 
Hey you masters of time trialing. I was really intrigued by this idea. But I have to admit to myself that I just don't have the time to compete. I don't even get to every regular time trial nowadays.

Have fun you all and happy lapping. I will unsubscribe from this thread now.
 
Wilsonson
Hey you masters of time trialing. I was really intrigued by this idea. But I have to admit to myself that I just don't have the time to compete. I don't even get to every regular time trial nowadays.

Have fun you all and happy lapping. I will unsubscribe from this thread now.
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Good morning Wilsonson,
thanks for your message. Anytime you have time and like to join you are heartly welcome. At the moment I myself have less time to drive and gaming should not stress. (No excuse for my underwhelming results of this round of course!)
Have a nice day!
 
benjoi84
Hey guys,

I might be interested at giving this TT a crack on my days off this week. What is the round at are currently on, regulations etc.?

Sorry if I'm being stupid but the poll at the start of thread is from 6th May
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No worries! We're on Round 3 at Brand's Hatch GP. The deadline is July 7th.

Note that posting a screenshot of your leader board ends your participation in that event. It's part of your final submission. It's fine talking about lap times, even posting screenshots and videos - just don't post your leader board until you are sure that is your final submission.

We have three classes. FWD, RWD, and AWD/4WD. You can submit one time for each class.

Note the special rules for this round
"There are two late changes for this round:
1. Round 3 ends already at the 7th of July.
2. The RWD class is open only for british Road Cars (No VGT).
Here we go..."

"Rules:
  1. only road cars allowed
  2. Sport Soft tyres for all
  3. mandatory parts are fully adjustable differential, fully adjustable gearing and fully adjustable suspension
  4. no PP-Limit but a fixed power-weight-ration of 1 kw per 3,5 kilogram
  5. NOS is prohibited
  6. engine swaps are legal"
As long as your car meets the above rules and has the mandatory parts, you can go nuts with every other aspect of tuning. We have some wild tunes.

Also, please set your track penalties to Strong. What's OK with the virtual stewards is OK with us.

Group 3 / Group B road cars are a gray area. I think we banned them in the second round. Ask @Gorefast if you want to run one.

The first post of this thread has all the rules. The second has the updated events.

Always glad to see more drivers and tuners!
 
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benjoi84
Hey guys,

I might be interested at giving this TT a crack on my days off this week. What is the round at are currently on, regulations etc.?

Sorry if I'm being stupid but the poll at the start of thread is from 6th May
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Hej benjoi84,

I just want to say "welcome!" as @rheinaoi has already answered perfectly.

The bloody poll cannot be removed. I follow your daily races often and am happy to have you around. Enjoy!

Gorefast
 

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