ATAQ - a time trial experiment

[rheinaoi]

I was getting the sense that the ATAQers have been busy / on vacation / exhausted. I was a day or three away from posting my final entries for this round as well.

What keeps me coming back to these challenges is that this aligns with how I play GT7 - test, tune, hotlap, retest, etc. I'm OK with postponing / extending this round. Because I like Brands Hatch

As for Round 4's twist, the year of manufacture limitation sounds really interesting. but I'd like to keep the current power/weight formula for now. As @ikon_313 mentioned, the cars take a while to set up. I'm open to a shorter track too, because it might give lighter builds a chance.

But I am open to changing the power / weight formula in future when there are more of us trying to solve the problem of going faster.

Side note: In additional to a given car's potential, mechanical grip and aero grip, I've noticed that a build needs at least 500hp to be competitive.

@ikon_313 I've been using 1.34102hp in my calculations.

 

[bliprunner]

I've been a little busy myself. I did test the new Vantage at Brands and I think it can sneak a 1:25 with zero tuning (just widebody, aero and all the regulation parts).

So I guess I need to have a fiddle and see if I can get it going even quicker without losing the nice driving characteristics.

As for future ATAQ... I'm having fun learning some tuning skills and don't think I would ever have time to properly test and drive cars for all three categories. So extra simplicity is good for me personally.

 

[Gorefast]

Good to get feedback, thank you. So, I tend to give this round a prolongation until 4th of August.

Regarding round 4 I remembered that someone here had the Idea of using cars from a certain time but maybe I misunderstood something. By 1987 there some nice classics available that otherwise probably would not be chosen. How about round 4 at Barcelona National with the current rules and the additional limit that the Car must be from 1987 or older? We now have some time to think about it...

 

[benjoi84]

What's really killing me is the effort required to use power-to-weight, as the only place you can access the data (as far as i can see) is in the Tuning Shop.

This has the side-effect of leaving me less time to actually choose and tune a car, as a result i spend less time on the racetrack and have ended up just leaving my leaderboard "as-is" after 10-12 laps in each of my vehicles.

Now, this is definitely a 'me issue' and i wouldn't want the community to change anything on my behalf, but any time-saving pointers are appreciated.

 

[Meythia]

What's really killing me is the effort required to use power-to-weight, as the only place you can access the data (as far as i can see) is in the Tuning Shop.

It is not perfect as we have seen, but no method is.

The only way to know for certian would PD having run Sophy on every track with every car with every setup and use this as a baseline PP calculation

For what we have seen, it does its job quite well, and definitly better than limiting PP, weight or power and opens up more cars, if lower weight can be benficial for a certian track or setup.

 

[911RSR]

What keeps me from getting good results:
I‘m not a tuner. I struggle to fine tune a car. It just takes an eternity for me to find a setup that works. That‘s why I never have many cars entered in the competition.
And i‘m focusing on the offical TT‘s. That leaves me unfortunatly with only a little time for ATAQ.

Barcelona Nationa

I hope that‘s not the Rallye-cross track?!
Apart from that i‘m fine with round 4!

What's really killing me is the effort required to use power-to-weight, as the only place you can access the data (as far as i can see) is in the Tuning Shop.

Just use a calculator! There‘s no need to go to the tuning shop. I.e. If your car has a wheight of 1300 Kg it can have 371,4 KW (1300/3.5).

 

[rheinaoi]

What's really killing me is the effort required to use power-to-weight, as the only place you can access the data (as far as i can see) is in the Tuning Shop.

I'm with @911RSR on this. Have the calculator ready when you're about to set up a car. Additionally, I have a couple shortcuts (bad habits, maybe...)

Minimum Power / Minimum Weight:
So far, my minimum goal power is 500hp. Therefore my minimum weight would be 1330kg / 2934lbs. That is the template I start with.

Testing Method - Confirming Assumptions
I come into a challenge with assumptions based on stories I've heard, and the cars that I've tuned in the past for 600pp, 700pp, 800pp, maxed, etc. I have suspicions about which cars might be the outliers. I then move to confirm those suspicions...

Aero
Does the car have rear aero (diffusser / undertray)? if it does, it's potentially strong, because it will likely have more front downforce AND it will pay less of a wind resistance penalty for cranking up that downfore [=good top speed]. This may be more GT7 logic than real-life.

Testing Method - On the Track
I do several laps with a car with either a previous tune adjusted for power / weight, or just the default values with all the regulation parts fitted. I also have front aero maxed and rear aero 80 - 100 points above that. I note the time it puts down and how it feels.
- Where does the car fight me when trying to get it around the track in the ideal way?

• If the car does not fight me, and if it sets a new fastest time, I push and push to see what the car does at the limit
• If the platform is already great and fast, then I tweak settings to align the car more with my driving style [my driving bad habits ].

I try to limit myself to 3 or 4 laps before re-evaluting a particular setting. The final week of a challenge + @ikon_313 and @Meythia's breakthroughs signal that it's time to focus on the META / my fastest car for the final push. Otherwise, I'd end up working through the entire car list

Overall, I believe tuning is more about helping the driver find the easiest way to access a car's potential. There are a few things may make a car objectively faster, but the rest is driver preference.

I agree with your findings on the new Vantage too. That is this round's RWD META until further notice . It's so good on even the base settings.

For learning about tuning this Fossil Fueled's youtube channel is an excellent resource.

 

[Meythia]

Testing Method - Confirming Assumptions

Im suprised your civic wasnt faster by a higher degree vs the megane.

 

[Gorefast]

What keeps me from getting good results:
I‘m not a tuner. I struggle to fine tune a car. It just takes an eternity for me to find a setup that works. That‘s why I never have many cars entered in the competition.
And i‘m focusing on the offical TT‘s. That leaves me unfortunatly with only a little time for ATAQ.


I hope that‘s not the Rallye-cross track?!
Apart from that i‘m fine with round 4!

Just use a calculator! There‘s no need to go to the tuning shop. I.e. If your car has a wheight of 1300 Kg it can have 371,4 KW (1300/3.5).

I started this thing knowing that I am nether a fast driver or a talented tuner. I appreciate all of your help and support while I must confess that I underestimated the power of tuning. I lose time because of driving and of tuning...

@benjoi84 : it shouldn't be too difficult if you add the ability to adjust Power Output and add weight. Tuning of Aero and Suspension does nothing with the power-weight-ratio.

 

[rheinaoi]

Im suprised your civic wasnt faster by a higher degree vs the megane.

That could be a combo of my driving, tuning, bias toward higher torque + the Megane being very good. Though I enjoy FWD cars, I put most of my focus into the AWD and RWD categories in Round 2. And I was procrastinating trying to make the FWD Ford Focus good

I'm running the Civic at 502hp / 1330kg for this round. I'm happy with the current 1:28.9. I'd love for it to beat the stupid TVR on my leader board, but I don't think I have the tuning or driving skills to do it.

 

[bliprunner]

Finally got that 1.25 with the "untuned" Vantage. Lap is shared with tags ataq and blip

It has a couple of extra parts, a racing silencer and power restrictor, and the ratio is 516hp / 1361kg

You might think that tuned it could do a 1.24 or better, but once I've messed around it may well be slower...

 

[rheinaoi]

Finally got that 1.25 with the "untuned" Vantage. Lap is shared with tags ataq and blip

It has a couple of extra parts, a racing silencer and power restrictor, and the ratio is 516hp / 1361kg

You might think that tuned it could do a 1.24 or better, but once I've messed around it may well be slower...


View attachment 1462406

Double check your gearbox. In the replay it looked as if you were using the Vantage's standard gearbox - your car had noticeably quicker upshifts.

Ironically, the standard gearbox in the Vantage shifts faster and may have better acceleration than our regulation Fully Customizable Manual. If your car got slower after tuning, fitting that gearbox could have been the culprit. Regardless, that was brilliant driving!

Now if you set that time with the Fully Customizable Manual fitted and you're driving with an H-pattern shifter... oh my

Oh, and 1:24's are not off the table. I ran a 1:25.8 and have an optimal around 1:25.4. I doubt I'll get that, but if we're going into the 1:24s, you'll be the one to take us there.

 

[bliprunner]

Double check your gearbox. In the replay it looked as if you were using the Vantage's standard gearbox - your car had noticeably quicker upshifts.

Ironically, the standard gearbox in the Vantage shifts faster and may have better acceleration than our regulation Fully Customizable Manual. If your car got slower after tuning, fitting that gearbox could have been the culprit. Regardless, that was brilliant driving!

Now if you set that time with the Fully Customizable Manual fitted and you're driving with an H-pattern shifter... oh my

Oh, and 1:24's are not off the table. I ran a 1:25.8 and have an optimal around 1:25.4. I doubt I'll get that, but if we're going into the 1:24s, you'll be the one to take us there.

Just checked and it has Full Customisable Racing (which I think is fine? - regulations just say "fully adjustable gearing").

The car seems so nice to drive I'm not quite sure what to adjust first...

 

[Meythia]

Just checked and it has Full Customisable Racing (which I think is fine? - regulations just say "fully adjustable gearing").

I think Gorefast at some point maybe changed that definition without intention.
I am confident at the beginning we defined the "non racing customizeable" gear box - or at least that is what I was interpreting.
But you are right, the current wording leaves it up to reading the racing one would be fine.

 

[rheinaoi]

Just checked and it has Full Customisable Racing (which I think is fine?

I am confident at the beginning we defined the "non racing customizeable" gear box - or at least that is what I was interpreting.
But you are right, the current wording leaves it up to reading the racing one would be fine.

Yes, you are both correct!! Great catch.

In Round 2, we were all using the fully customizable manual (semi-racing)) transmission. The rules previously were clear about this. Now it is open to interpretation. Interesting

@Gorefast what is your ruling on this?

@bliprunner If the stock settings of the car make you happy, then keep driving toward your optimal. Make your fastest lap your average lap.

Any little thing that you notice can guide your tuning. What aspect of the car will make it easier for you to run your fastest lap all day long?

Create a duplicate settings sheet for experimentation

• try all the different turbo upgrades
• Is anti-lag fitted and turned on? Turn it on and set it to Strong
• Max out the front downforce if you haven't already, and reduce rear downforce - what is the minimum rear downforce that still feels great to you?

Race against your ghost for several laps with each new setting and note the differences.

 

[Gorefast]

Yes, you are both correct!! Great catch.

In Round 2, we were all using the fully customizable manual (semi-racing)) transmission. The rules previously were clear about this. Now it is open to interpretation. Interesting

@Gorefast what is your ruling on this?

I cannot remember having changed the wording and I am sorry to cause irritation. It is meant to be the above mentioned "fully customizable manual (semi-racing) transmission". I will correct the first page. (Anything else unclear/open/wrong?)

 

[bliprunner]

The few tenths I lost with the transmission I managed to claw back with an anti-lag, a bit extra downforce and some small suspension tweaks, and ran a 1.25.7 (replay saved).

Next up is turbo's and gearing...