Atmosphere in Gran Turismo

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10,414
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Canada
Too bad Forza lacks quite a bit in the most important thing which is driving physics
I love how you and @emula are taking my opinion to heart, and proceed to downplay Forza as if you two are achieving something from it. Doesn't matter though, because at the end of the day, GT and Forza are both alike in concept, regardless of atmosphere.

Again, I do not care to have a specific atmosphere in a racing game as long as it's fun, though that depends on games that are open world, rather than track racers. If anything, PD should be focusing on making their games fun again instead of JUST focusing on the atmosphere.
 
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lImaRobotl
Well that is your opinion... To me GTS is head and shoulders better.
It's well known that these games are purposely made to sit in the middle realm of the simulation spectrum. They do drive well, but also both get things wrong and right, and both do things the other don't. It's done that way to be as accessible as it can be to the common player. Neither of them are really trumping each other, and to be honest, if we're going to go so far as to worry about physics, than I think you might be playing the wrong games.
 
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Well that is your opinion... To me GTS is head and shoulders better.
This whole thread is opinion based actually, doesn't make @ImaRobot's post wrong though. Forza and GT are in the same spectrum in terms of simulation. Neither doesn't outdo the other in physics, even in atmosphere.
 
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It's well known that these games are purposely made to sit in the middle realm of the simulation spectrum. They do drive well, but also both get things wrong and right, and both do things the other don't. It's done that way to be as accessible as it can be to the common player. Neither of them are really trumping each other, and to be honest, if we're going to go so far as to worry about physics, than I think you might be playing the wrong games.
This whole thread is opinion based actually, doesn't make @ImaRobot's post wrong though. Forza and GT are in the same spectrum in terms of simulation. Neither doesn't outdo the other in physics, even in atmosphere.
Totally disagree...
I mean... One thing is the intention, or cheap talking... and the other is the end result. Totally disagree that Forza is in the same "spectrum". No it is not. GT Sport is so much more realistic and well made. It is not the most realistic thing out there and can be improved, of course, but it is so much better.
Forza is just a lot of cars and tracks as usual, but it doesn't feel like a refined or a well polished final product.
If you have driven sports cars yourself IRL around a track, you easily realise which one feels closer to reality.
 
13,667
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lImaRobotl
Totally disagree...
I mean... One thing is the intention, or cheap talking... and the other is the end result. Totally disagree that Forza is in the same "spectrum". No it is not. GT Sport is so much more realistic and well made. It is not the most realistic thing out there and can be improved, of course, but it is so much better.
Forza is just a lot of cars and tracks as usual, but it doesn't feel like a refined or a well polished final product.
If you have driven sports cars yourself IRL around a track, you easily realise which one feels closer to reality.
You agreeing or not doesn't really change that. It's well known that they are purposely made in this spectrum to be widely accessible to the average, common players. These games strong suit were never their physics, but they are definitely believable and passable - and that's exactly what they're trying to do. You're playing the wrong games if you're worried about realism, because both these games miss that mark in some aspects. It's easily noticeable, like you said. Both of these games simulate some things differently, and do thing's the other doesn't. You just prefer one, that's all.

I don't really care for ones driving over the other, they both offer a great driving experience and hit the mark well enough. These two games are the ones that are usually the most interchangeable in the simulation world when it comes to actual driving, they're the most comparable to each other and jumping from one to the other is very simple because of the similarities in their physics and their aim. Much like Pcars past iterations and ACC covering the higher end of the spectrum.
 
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You agreeing or not doesn't really change that. It's well known that they are purposely made in this spectrum to be widely accessible to the average, common players. These games strong suit were never their physics, but they are definitely believable and passable - and that's exactly what they're trying to do. You're playing the wrong games if you're worried about realism, because both these games miss that mark in some aspects. It's easily noticeable, like you said. Both of these games simulate things differently, and do thing's the other doesn't. You just prefer one, that's all.

I don't really care for ones driving over the other, they both offer a great driving experience and hit the mark well enough. These two games are the ones that are usually the most interchangeable in the simulation world when it comes to actual driving, they're the most comparable to each other and jumping from one to the other is very simple because of the similarities in their physics and their aim. Much like Pcars past iterations and ACC covering the higher end of the spectrum.
GT Sport is made to be a lot more of a sim than previous GTs. And made to be lot more of a sim than any Forza.
You think PCars (any of them) is more of a simulation than GT Sport, or more realistic, really? Lol. Okay...
 
13,667
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lImaRobotl
GT Sport is made to be a lot more of a sim than previous GTs. And made to be lot more of a sim than any Forza.
You think PCars (any of them) is more of a simulation than GT Sport, or more realistic, really? Lol. Okay...
What exactly makes GT Sport more of a sim than its predecessors? It's focus on sanctioned motorsports? The game, like any other game, has a natural evolution to what it focuses on, it doesn't really seem that a direct focus on physics was a concern of theirs because it would take away from what they're going for - to cover a wide area to pull in as many gamers as they can without taking away from the overall goal. It's had natural progression. It's not made to be more sim than Forza, as that makes no sense as their focus isn't about Forza at all. What they're made to be, is widely accessible. That in and of itself means that the physics side of this aren't going to be as demanding as the games in the higher end of the spectrum. This games strong suit was never its physics, and I'm not sure how you're confused about that. Neither is Forza for that matter. They both just offer passable examples of reality.

Yes, Pcars literally has more focus on physics. It's another thing that is known. The prior iterations at least, as the 3rd misses the mark from what I'm told. You just happen to have rose-tinted glasses it seems.
 
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What exactly makes GT Sport more of a sim than its predecessors? It's focus on sanctioned motorsports? The game, like any other game, has a natural evolution to what it focuses on, it doesn't really seem that a direct focus on physics was a concern of theirs because it would take away from what they're going for - to cover a wide area to pull in as many gamers as they can without taking away from the overall goal. It's had natural progression. It's not made to be more sim than Forza, as that makes no sense as their focus isn't about Forza at all. What they're made to be, is widely accessible. That in and of itself means that the physics side of this aren't going to be as demanding as the games in the higher end of the spectrum. This games strong suit was never its physics, and I'm not sure how you're confused about that. Neither is Forza for that matter. They both just offer passable examples of reality.

Yes, Pcars literally has more focus on physics. It's another thing that is known. The prior iterations at least, as the 3rd misses the mark from what I'm told. You just happen to have rose-tinted glasses it seems.
Intention is not so much relevant. The relevant thing is the final results.
Pcars tried to have more focus on physics, probably? Yea sure it may be true, but I think they failed.
I can say that my intention as a virtual racer is to be the best out there, but doesn't mean I can be remotely close to achieve that. :) Talk is so cheap as we know
I'm getting vague flashbacks of a previously banned Spanish member who liked to present his arguments in a similar fashion, Nixxon or something like that?
What fashion is this? Don't use nationality as prejudice. I assume not all british think like you.
 
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lImaRobotl
Intention is not so much relevant. The relevant thing is the final results.
Pcars tried to have more focus on physics, probably? Yea sure it may be true, but I think they failed.
I can say that my intention as a virtual racer is to be the best out there, but doesn't mean I can be remotely close to achieve that. :)
Intention? That is literally their aim, to have physics' that very much resemble reality, but it isn't a forefront staple of their game because they want it to reach as many people as they possibly can. Pcars definitely has a better focus on physics, there isn't a maybe about it. You thinking that doesn't really change anything. It having better physics didn't mean it was a better game though. Thanks for avoiding everything asked though. It seems you are at least understanding that these games sit in the middle ground with each other, and for good reason. None of what you posted changes that, and that's not a problem really as they aren't trying to be heavy physics-based games. I honestly think that's for the better, because they would lose a bit of their image if they focused as heavily on it as those games that have come to be known the forefront of simulation on consoles.


What fashion is this? Don't use nationality as prejudice. I assume not all british think like you.
You completely misunderstood what was said. The only thing your nationality has to do with is that you're in the same place as person that got banned and that you're posting in a similar way as that person. You're reading too far into it.
 
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Intention? That is literally their aim, to have physics' that very much resemble reality, but it isn't a forefront staple of their game because they want it to reach as many people as they possibly can. Pcars definitely has a better focus on physics, there isn't a maybe about it. You thinking that doesn't really change anything. It having better physics didn't mean it was a better game though. Thanks for avoiding everything asked though. It seems you are at least understanding that these games sit in the middle ground with each other, and for good reason. None of what you posted changes that, and that's not a problem really as they aren't trying to be heavy physics-based games. I honestly think that's for the better, because they would lose a bit of their image if they focused as heavily on it as those games that have come to be known the forefront of simulation on consoles.



You completely misunderstood what was said. The only thing your nationality has to do with is that you're in the same place as person that got banned and that you're posting in a similar way as that person. You're reading too far into it.
So you seem to somehow present your opinion on physics as facts, interesting.
In what place I am though? And why he got banned?
 
10,414
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Totally disagree...
I mean... One thing is the intention, or cheap talking... and the other is the end result. Totally disagree that Forza is in the same "spectrum". No it is not. GT Sport is so much more realistic and well made. It is not the most realistic thing out there and can be improved, of course, but it is so much better.
Forza is just a lot of cars and tracks as usual, but it doesn't feel like a refined or a well polished final product.
If you have driven sports cars yourself IRL around a track, you easily realise which one feels closer to reality.
You can try to spin it in multiple directions all you want. GTS isn't in anyway more realistic than Forza if they are both targeting the same audience. And you want to speak about "lots of cars and tracks" as well as polished products? What was GT5 and GT6 before GTS if you're pinning that on Forza?
GT Sport is made to be a lot more of a sim than previous GTs. And made to be lot more of a sim than any Forza.
You think PCars (any of them) is more of a simulation than GT Sport, or more realistic, really? Lol. Okay...
Uhhh no, it isn't. It was created in partnership with FIA and PD. Regardless, it isn't any more realistic than Forza if they both have simplified physics. Pcars on the other hand, was created intention to replicate real life motorsports of old and new, hence the focus was making the physics as realistic as possible. It's more hardcore than even GTS and Forza.
 
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lImaRobotl
So you seem to somehow present your opinion on physics as facts, interesting.
In what place I am though? And why he got banned?
You seem to have a reading comprehension issue. I've not talked about direct physics of anything, just that the two games sit in a very specific area together, and that they both have traits the other doesn't - but that doesn't make them that indifferent. That doesn't take away from the fact that they're covering the same ground in the racing world and they don't focus heavy on physics because they're trying to reach a much wider audience than the higher games on the spectrum.

In what place? Spain. It was already said, you literally replied to it.
 
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You can try to spin it in multiple directions all you want. GTS isn't in anyway more realistic than Forza if they are both targeting the same audience. And you want to speak about "lots of cars and tracks" as well as polished products? What was GT5 and GT6 before GTS if you're pinning that on Forza?

Uhhh no, it isn't. It was created in partnership with FIA and PD. Regardless, it isn't any more realistic than Forza if they both have simplified physics. Pcars on the other hand, was created intention to replicate real life motorsports of old and new, hence the focus was making the physics as realistic as possible. It's more hardcore than even GTS and Forza.

Edit: Yeah even I'm starting to think he's Nixxon.

And I repeat, you can target whatever you want, but if the final result doesn't meet the target then it's pointless to talk about targets. You get it?
Intention is one thing, end result is another. You can try to simulate a million things but if you dont do them well then it's not good stuff. On the other hand you can try to keep it simpler but do the basics right. That's the part where GTS I think does it better.
Who is this Nixon guy? You think spain has only one gran turismo player or something?

You seem to have a reading comprehension issue. I've not talked about direct physics of anything, just that the two games sit in a very specific area together, and that they both have traits the other doesn't - but that doesn't make them that indifferent. That doesn't take away from the fact that they're covering the same ground in the racing world and they don't focus heavy on physics because they're trying to reach a much wider audience than the higher games on the spectrum.

In what place? Spain. It was already said, you literally replied to it.
You have seemed to change the tone a bit now. Spectrum; there are shades of gray, things are not black and white.
 
13,667
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lImaRobotl
And I repeat, you can target whatever you want, but if the final result doesn't meet the target then it's pointless to talk about targets. You get it?
Intention is one thing, end result is another. You can try to simulate a million things but if you dont do them well then it's not good stuff. On the other hand you can try to keep it simpler but do the basics right. That's the part where GTS I think does it better.
Who is this Nixon guy? You think spain has only one gran turismo player or something?
And they hit that mark they wanted, to be widely accessible to as many people with out it being overbearing for people that are new to games like this. Not really sure how that's such an issue to you, it's really not even a problem at all. We've boiled it down then, you just like GTS more, and that's ok. First you said it has much better simulation, and now you're back tracking and saying it just gets the basics better. Those are two very different area's. It's fine to prefer one, but really, these two games aren't putting physics at a forefront of their target, but they are definitely giving it enough focus to be believable, and that's fine, because they've found a great area and have produced a great game based off that. I much prefer it that way, actually.
You have seemed to change the tone a bit now. Spectrum; there are shades of gray, things are not black and white.
I've not changed anything. I'm saying the exact same things I've been saying with nothing different. Only thing changing is having to simplify it, apparently. This spectrum is pretty straight forward; We have the arcade racers like The Crew and NFS. We have the middle ground that people like to call "sim-cade" but I don't really like the term myself, and that consist of GT and Forza really, and the new Project Cars 3 from what I understand. Forza Horizon kind of sits between those two. Then we have those at the higher end like ACC and Pcars 1/2.

Forza and GT are largely interchangeable within that middle ground. It's also why its so easy to jump between the two and get straight to driving because they largely resemble each other in many ways, especially physics.
 
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10,414
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Canada
And I repeat, you can target whatever you want, but if the final result doesn't meet the target then it's pointless to talk about targets. You get it?
Intention is one thing, end result is another. You can try to simulate a million things but if you dont do them well then it's not good stuff. On the other hand you can try to keep it simpler but do the basics right. That's the part where GTS I think does it better.
Not quite sure you're getting what's being said here, so I guess we can agree to disagree I suppose.
Who is this Nixon guy? You think spain has only one gran turismo player or something?
He's someone who once posted on this site before getting banned. I'm not sure from what, but your posts almost resemble his.
You have seemed to change the tone a bit now. Spectrum; there are shades of gray, things are not black and white.
Nothing in tone was changed at all buddy. And the spectrum is that GT and Forza are really not that different. It's only a matter of preference which is what your posts seem to indicate. I may like Forza more, but I wouldn't pretend it out does GT is areas the two games are really good at: simulating real physics.
 
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Not quite sure you're getting what's being said here, so I guess we can agree to disagree I suppose.

He's someone who once posted on this site before getting banned. I'm not sure from what, but your posts almost resemble his.
Okay, because I was thinking that I have never done anything remontely close to deserve a ban, at all
And they hit that mark they wanted, to be widely accessible to as many people with out it being overbearing for people that are new to games like this. Not really sure how that's such an issue to you, it's really not even a problem at all. We've boiled it down then, you just like GTS more, and that's ok. First you said it has much better simulation, and now you're back tracking and saying it just gets the basics better. Those are two very different area's. It's fine to prefer one, but really, these two games aren't putting physics at a forefront of their target, but they are definitely giving it enough focus to be believable, and that's fine, because they've found a great area and have produced a great game based off that. I much prefer it that way, actually.

I've not changed anything. I'm saying the exact same things I've been saying with nothing different. Only thing changing is having to simplify it, apparently. This spectrum is pretty straight forward; We have the arcade racers like The Crew and NFS. We have the middle ground that people like to call "sim-cade" but I don't really like the term myself, and that consist of GT and Forza really, and the new Project Cars 3 from what I understand. Forza Horizon kind of sits between those two. Then we have those at the higher end like ACC and Pcars 1/2.

Forza and GT are largely interchangeable within that middle ground. It's also why its so easy to jump between the two and get straight to driving because they largely resemble each other in many ways, especially physics.
Well, it seems you base this on how complicated or advanced the games are maybe, which is not the same as what game really is more or less realistic in terms of driving physics.
I think Assetto is indeed a bit more of a simulator than GTS because it is a well made game with well made physics.
But PCars on the other hand... Man, you may think its more of a simulator because it tries to be so, but I think it completely failed and the end result is just a badly made thing, not a good simulator. And a similar thing happens in forza, it just doesn't feel right to me.
All of course is what I think so just respect this... because I seem to be surrounded by PCars and Forza fans? all against me, lol. In the GT subforum by the way.
 
13,667
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lImaRobotl
Well, it seems you base this on how complicated or advanced the games are maybe, which is not the same as what game really is more or less realistic in terms of driving physics.
No, I don't.
I think Assetto is indeed a bit more of a simulator than GTS because it is a well made game with well made physics.
But PCars on the other hand... Man, you may think its more of a simulator because it tries to be so, but I think it completely failed and the end result is just a badly made thing, not a good simulator. And a similar thing happens in forza, it just doesn't feel right to me.
All of course is what I think so just respect this... because I seem to be surrounded by PCars and Forza fans? all against me, lol. In the GT subforum by the way.
ACC is largely a heavily focused sim, and they put much more resources and attention into the physics side of it than any of these games out on console really. None of what we are talking about are likely to be in the same category as it. I'm actually fine with that too, because GT has hit that perfect spot of accessibility and realism without having to dive so deep into that spectrum. I feel if they did they would take away from what makes GT, well... GT. You thinking it failed doesn't change the fact that it focus on physics on a bigger scale than what both GT and Forza were going for. They just happened to make a game that I didn't really even like in the process, but that was more down to bugs than what it was simulating.

Again, it's just boiling down to you preferring one over the other it sounds like. As a far as pure simulation is going, Forza, as well as GT, are not aiming for that as a forefront. I don't even care for Project cars, I have little interest in Forza as of Late, and in fact, I'm much more anticipating the next GT more than Forza. Not everyone decides to blind themselves to what's available and hold such weird stigma's just because they don't prefer a certain title, like you seem to be doing. Me disagreeing with you isn't showing a lack of respect, not sure why the first go to is to play the victim.

It's being talked about in the Gt Subforum because you wanted to bring it up, how are you confused about that? If you are worried about that, I'm not sure why you would choose to go that route in the first place.
 
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Well, it seems you base this on how complicated or advanced the games are maybe, which is not the same as what game really is more or less realistic in terms of driving physics.
Not exactly, but okay.
I think Assetto is indeed a bit more of a simulator than GTS because it is a well made game with well made physics.
But PCars on the other hand... Man, you may think its more of a simulator because it tries to be so, but I think it completely failed and the end result is just a badly made thing, not a good simulator. And a similar thing happens in forza, it just doesn't feel right to me.
So basically, it's a preference. 😅
All of course is what I think so just respect this... because I seem to be surrounded by PCars and Forza fans? all against me, lol. In the GT subforum by the way.
It has nothing to do with respect or certain fans surrounding you. We're simply countering the fact that you've based GTS of having better physics with no facts to that
 
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This whole thread is opinion based actually, doesn't make @ImaRobot's post wrong though. Forza and GT are in the same spectrum in terms of simulation. Neither doesn't outdo the other in physics, even in atmosphere.
Absolutely not

FM7
jjjjf7kv0.gif

GTS

FM7
giffwj6t.gif

GTS
 
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lImaRobotl
You're wrong! Here's two images of cars jumping with literally no context as to what it's supposed to mean!

Nice to see you still cherry-picking things and throwing them into a conversation with little to no context. You've literally gotten banned for doing things like this before.
 
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Not exactly, but okay.

So basically, it's a preference. 😅

It has nothing to do with respect or certain fans surrounding you. We're simply countering the fact that you've based GTS of having better physics with no facts to that
You don't need facts always to discuss something. In this case you drive both in the game and IRL, compare the feel and form an opinion
 
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Absolutely not

FM7
jjjjf7kv0.gif

GTS

FM7
giffwj6t.gif

GTS
I...don't really know what you're trying to get at here. The cars' jumping react the same way?
You're wrong! Here's two images of cars jumping with literally no context as to what it's supposed to mean!

Nice to see you still cherry-picking things and throwing them into a conversation with little to no context. You've literally gotten banned for doing things like this before.
My determination shows no bounds if it means proving you wrong... *posts gifs without context. 😄
You don't need facts always to discuss something. In this case you drive both in the game and IRL, compare the feel and form an opinion
Actually, I do drive in real life. Not fast cars like in GT and Forza, but I drive. Doesn't mean that either are true to life as you may think. After all, they're video games attempting to simulate real life driving with a hint of arcade in the mix.
 
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The difference is like night and day... GT compared to some pc simulators don't have great suspension physics but in Forza they seem inexistent lol
Than you must have blinders on because you can clearly see in Forza the suspension is compressing against the pavement like in GTS. The only difference is one is in slow motion and the other is not.
 
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Than you must have blinders on because you can clearly see in Forza the suspension is compressing against the pavement like in GTS. The only difference is one is in slow motion and the other is not.
Again the difference in suspension behaviour is massive, if you can't notice that the only one that is blind here is yourself...apart the physics GT Sport has also the best online system on console which other games haven't and the best car models around.You were saying that GT focus only in atmosphere and glossy menus which is a totally false statment.
 
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lImaRobotl
Again the difference in suspension behaviour is massive, if you can't notice that the only one that is blind here is yourself...apart the physics GT Sport has also the best online system on console which other games haven't and the best car models around,you were saying that GT focus only in atmosphere and glossy menus which is a totally false statment.
A picture of jumping cars doesn't really change what's been said. Not sure why you guys literally always have to make a vs thread every time you post in threads like these. For a game you guys dislike, it's weird how often you constantly try to bring it up in places it doesn't need to be.
 
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