Attention to detail

[s12ken]

Even that mitsubishi concept car does it... the HSR.... not just the rear flaps but when you turn, the front corner canards com out!... i was like WTF!!!!!!

edit: so does the Nike ONE

 

[Jedi2016]

I just saw an episode of a relatively new Discovery Channel show called Top Gear in which they tested the MacLaren SLR and after having endured the torture of Mission 34 just a week or so ago, the thing that struck me was the engine sound...GT4 really nails it. I'd expect the car to look like the real one, naturally, since Gran Turismo has such amazing car models. And I knew the sounds were supposed to be individually recorded, but until now I had not really had a comparison to any RL counterpart.

Can I have some of what you're smoking? Or do you have a different version of GT4 than I do? Because the SLR in my copy of GT4 sounds like an electric razor, whereas the real one sounds like a Messerschmitt/Spitfire/God-of-Thunder-Gargling-with-Nails. The game version has NONE of the rumbling, that muscle-car growl that the real one does. Sounds more like a Prius than the 600hp monster that it is. And yes, I'll keep rambling about it, because the worthless %#&$%* sound that they have in the game pisses me the hell off.

 

[puricele7e]

Can I have some of what you're smoking? Or do you have a different version of GT4 than I do? Because the SLR in my copy of GT4 sounds like an electric razor, whereas the real one sounds like a Messerschmitt/Spitfire/God-of-Thunder-Gargling-with-Nails. The game version has NONE of the rumbling, that muscle-car growl that the real one does. Sounds more like a Prius than the 600hp monster that it is. And yes, I'll keep rambling about it, because the worthless %#&$%* sound that they have in the game pisses me the hell off.

I second that, it really sounds like a lawn mower (sp?) 👎

 

[niky]

errh... you guys have crappy TV speakers? (waits to get hit... )

For what hardware is available, it sounds pretty good. People complain about the loss of muscle car rumble, but show me how to get that without investing another couple of thousand dollars in a sound system?

 

[Ezz777]

the SLR sounded fine to me. what are you listening to it thru - your TV?

i also found that i appreciated its sounds a lot more after completing mission 34

 

[Moloch_horridus]

I have been caught out a couple of times watching that air brake go up and down on the car in front and ended up having an excursion into the scenery because I was not watching the road

 

[puricele7e]

Am i the only one that cracked mission 34 on my first try?? (no, i'm not a liyer (sp?) but just a Ring addict )

 

[~Sp33~]

I have been caught out a couple of times watching that air brake go up and down on the car in front and ended up having an excursion into the scenery because I was not watching the road

lol.. your not the first .. or the last i dare say.. The Merc's auto-spoilerific braking function will continue to distract its way around the world.

 

[Jedi2016]

errh... you guys have crappy TV speakers? (waits to get hit... )

For what hardware is available, it sounds pretty good. People complain about the loss of muscle car rumble, but show me how to get that without investing another couple of thousand dollars in a sound system?

My sound system is just fine, thank you... It's a Sony 5.1 Surround system, 600+W. Very capable of playing anything I throw at it. PS2 is connected via digital optical cable, and GT4 runs in Pro Logic II.

Are you telling me that you people actually hear the muscle-car growl that car has? You DO know what the real car sounds like, yes? Should probably look up that video that someone posted just before the game came out, from Top Gear. Or, I'll just reiterate what I said earlier, a direct quote from Jeremy Clarkson:

The guys at McLaren said "It sounds like a Spitfire!", but the guys at Mercedes said "Nein, nein! Sounds like a Messerschmitt!!" They're both wrong actually... It sounds like the God of Thunder.... gargling with nails.

Now, can any of you honestly say that's the feeling you get when you listen to the SLR in the game? 'Cause I sure as hell don't. It sounds like I'm driving a 600hp electric car. All you hear is the transmission. Yes, the tranny does sound like that on the SLR (it's an automatic), but where's the actual engine noise?

Better yet, does anyone have the ability to capture sounds from consoles? Perhaps a comparison is in order... someone put up sound bits of the car.. one from real life, one from GT4, and just for fun, one from Forza.. I haven't heard how theirs sounds yet.

 

[ZeratulSG]

Can I have some of what you're smoking? Or do you have a different version of GT4 than I do? Because the SLR in my copy of GT4 sounds like an electric razor, whereas the real one sounds like a Messerschmitt/Spitfire/God-of-Thunder-Gargling-with-Nails. The game version has NONE of the rumbling, that muscle-car growl that the real one does. Sounds more like a Prius than the 600hp monster that it is. And yes, I'll keep rambling about it, because the worthless %#&$%* sound that they have in the game pisses me the hell off.

I agree about the sound of the SLR (and yes, I do listen to the game through my TV speakers ), and while it does have a bit of mumbling under the hood, I would be a little worried to hear a "muscle car growl" (which is characterized by the V8) coming out of a V12 engine

 

[~Sp33~]

lol, yeah that would be mildly disturbing

 

[~Sp33~]

lol, yeah that would be mildly disturbing. V12's are usually much more sedate in there growling

EDIT: stupid internet.. sorry for the double post.

 

[s12ken]

The McMerc IS a V8... supercharged at that.... i think they started out as a V12, but ended up as a V8...

Engine AMG-built supercharged 5,439-cc 24-valve 90°V-8 engine

note: the logo is the intake for the S/C sneaky chaps aren't they

I never get tired of looking at this car.. it's simply beautiful

 

[niky]

My sound system is just fine, thank you... It's a Sony 5.1 Surround system, 600+W. Very capable of playing anything I throw at it. PS2 is connected via digital optical cable, and GT4 runs in Pro Logic II.

Are you telling me that you people actually hear the muscle-car growl that car has? You DO know what the real car sounds like, yes? Should probably look up that video that someone posted just before the game came out, from Top Gear. Or, I'll just reiterate what I said earlier, a direct quote from Jeremy Clarkson:

The guys at McLaren said "It sounds like a Spitfire!", but the guys at Mercedes said "Nein, nein! Sounds like a Messerschmitt!!" They're both wrong actually... It sounds like the God of Thunder.... gargling with nails.

Now, can any of you honestly say that's the feeling you get when you listen to the SLR in the game? 'Cause I sure as hell don't. It sounds like I'm driving a 600hp electric car. All you hear is the transmission. Yes, the tranny does sound like that on the SLR (it's an automatic), but where's the actual engine noise?

Better yet, does anyone have the ability to capture sounds from consoles? Perhaps a comparison is in order... someone put up sound bits of the car.. one from real life, one from GT4, and just for fun, one from Forza.. I haven't heard how theirs sounds yet.

Actually, I was just needling... truth is, I don't know what an SLR per se sounds like, but I do know what a muscle car sounds like, and I've been close enough to real racers (God knows, I think I still have ear damage from that) to know what a fully open exhaust sounds like, and I just don't see how any system could reproduce something like that.

I personally think it's expecting too much to believe that a digitized sound recreated from a simulation of a sound, generated mathematically from sound samples taken out in the open would come anywhere near the real thing. Especially considering the number of cars in the game, the amount of testing done, and etc. etc. etc...

Maybe for GT5 they could take samples at a state of the art sound recording studio, and port the whole thing "analog" to the game, instead reducing it to the digitized garble it is now...

Don't worry, I feel your pain, too...

At least you have a kick-ass sound system.

 

[ZeratulSG]

The McMerc IS a V8... supercharged at that.... i think they started out as a V12, but ended up as a V8...

Doh! I stand corrected, my apologies. I could've sworn it was a V12

 

[ZZII]

Now, can any of you honestly say that's the feeling you get when you listen to the SLR in the game? 'Cause I sure as hell don't. It sounds like I'm driving a 600hp electric car. All you hear is the transmission. Yes, the tranny does sound like that on the SLR (it's an automatic), but where's the actual engine noise?

I agree that the depth of the sound isn't all there, even with surround sound and a good woofer. I guess I was saying that the pitch and characteristic noise of the SLR was good. I heard it on Top Gear after hearing it in GT4 and the sound was very similar. However, I bet that if I stood next to it in real life, I might change my opinion.

I'll see if I can record a sample from my console, but it will probably lose a lot of quality in the process. (I have some video of M34, but the sound is so garbled that it is useless.) Now, who's got a real SLR that we can record?

 

[coolacrille]

I'll see if I can record a sample from my console, but it will probably lose a lot of quality in the process. (I have some video of M34, but the sound is so garbled that it is useless.) Now, who's got a real SLR that we can record?

lol

 

[ZZII]

Here's the best recording I can make with my "state-of-the-art" equiptment (a Y-cable and headphone jack ):

SLR Engine Sound from GT4

It's a bit scratchy because of the setup. Listening to it on my built-in speakers, I agree it's not deep enough and does, in fact, sound like an electric car. With my real speakers (relatively small computer speakers with woofer...which I actually got for free with the original Logitech Wheel...go figure), it sounds pretty good to me.

 

[futuredrifter]

I agree that the depth of the sound isn't all there, even with surround sound and a good woofer. I guess I was saying that the pitch and characteristic noise of the SLR was good. I heard it on Top Gear after hearing it in GT4 and the sound was very similar. However, I bet that if I stood next to it in real life, I might change my opinion.

I'll see if I can record a sample from my console, but it will probably lose a lot of quality in the process. (I have some video of M34, but the sound is so garbled that it is useless.) Now, who's got a real SLR that we can record?

Dam that was close man lmao nice grass skippin technique!!

 

[ZZII]

Am i the only one that cracked mission 34 on my first try?? (no, i'm not a liyer (sp?) but just a Ring addict )

PAL version? If so, the NTSC version is 8 seconds harder I believe. Still, that's pretty amazing since I was no where NEAR 8 seconds behind on my first tries. More like 25 seconds.

Dam that was close man lmao nice grass skippin technique!!

Haha, thanks! I hated doing it...seems like cheating to me. I tried to be reasonable...I refrained from the "handbrake-into-T13-barrier" technique. I know it can be done cleanly. If I had another week to work on it...

 

[Sprite]

Well the AI is left upto the programmers not the 2d and 3d artisit and animators, so time taken on the lovley physics engine is why the AI is slack or lacking, not the fact that a widscreen wiper moves.

 

[Scaff]

I agree that the depth of the sound isn't all there, even with surround sound and a good woofer. I guess I was saying that the pitch and characteristic noise of the SLR was good. I heard it on Top Gear after hearing it in GT4 and the sound was very similar. However, I bet that if I stood next to it in real life, I might change my opinion.

You've just hit the nail on the head for me with this one.

When you stand next to a car you don't just hear the sound, but you feel it as well, quite literally. Something that you are going to need a major PA system to recreate.

The GT4 sounds are a mixed bag for me, you do need a descent AV set-up to even get close and some cars sound good and some bad, I also hold the now old technology of the PS2 itself as partly the reason for this.

However I still rate the sounds better than Forza, thats just a big fat mess coming out of my speakers. On a time trial or free run its not to bad, but in a race its just nasty.

One of my favorite in GT4 has to be the TVR Cerbera Speed 12, at low revs and pulling away in 3rd gear from a standstill it sounds great (the Ford GT is not bad for this either).

Regards

Scaff

 

[Jedi2016]

I was listening to the game earlier, and I think I realize where part of the problem is. The transmission. For some reason, Polyphony has substantially increased the sound that the transmission makes, far above what you normally hear in real life (most trannies are near-silent, all you can hear is the engine itself).

For example, I used to enjoy driving the Fiat Turbo Coupé in GT3, because it had a good sound (i.e. it sounded like a real car). I just took a drive in GT4, and it sounds rather different, much worse overall. I listened carefully, and realized that the realistic-sounding engine was still there, but it was being drowned out by the transmission, which was creating a rather loud "whistling" sound. Which, combined with the engine, made it sound like the usual GT-ish "cheesy and fake" engine sound.

Ditto for the Viper SRT-10. The rumble is there, but it's subdued, drowned out by a whining gearbox.

That's what they need to fix next time around.. I don't mind having the sounds there.. I mean, all these parts do make noise, but they need to balance them better.. they need to listen to the real car and determine how loud each component is. The Viper, for example.. when you punch it off the line, the loudest thing you'll hear is the engine, the scream of that V8 pumping out hundreds of horses. Not the sound of the transmission.

That's the problem with the SLR, too, I think. That sound bit posted above actually sounds better than what I usually hear, the rumble is indeed there. But listen to how quiet it is compared to that whiny transmission. Either that tranny needs to be quieter or, more likely, the engine noise itself needs to be a lot louder.

Does replacing the transmission do anything for that? Obviously not a racing tranny, since those whine rather loudly, too, but perhaps a sports or semi-racing tranny? Methinks I'll try that.. I've got some money to burn.

 

[futuredrifter]

JEDI i fully agree with wat your sayin, but i think the reason why the trannies are so loud is because, i guess the Pd kinda mixed them up with the racing tranny sound. The whir of a racing tranny is almost as loud as the engine. I was watching a video of a M3 gtr on Nurburgring, and the camera was on the insde of the cockpit and the tranny whir is really loud. If the pd can differenciate the different trannies then our Problem may be solved.

p.s. If i knew how to post videos i would have posted this one for u all.


FUTUREDRIFTER

 

[D.E]

The Viper, for example.. when you punch it off the line, the loudest thing you'll hear is the engine, the scream of that V8 pumping out hundreds of horses.

Don´t mean to be a smartass, but the Viper´s got a V10.

I agree to that the sound is to much like an electrical car, except in a fully tuned 300ZX 2-seater... That one makes a louder and cooler burble than the Charger even!

 

[niky]

Does replacing the transmission do anything for that? Obviously not a racing tranny, since those whine rather loudly, too, but perhaps a sports or semi-racing tranny? Methinks I'll try that.. I've got some money to burn.

I just did some hot-switching between a race tranny and a standard tranny earlier, and I didn't notice anything.

I don't notice anything with a close-ratio tranny either, and I'm betting the super-close is the same.

Funny, You'd think the full-race box would sound as bad as they do in real-life... grunch, grunch, CLANK!

 

[ZeratulSG]

The whirring you hear in racing transmissions is the sound made by the relatively straight-cut gears. In GT3 I remember a noticable difference in tranny sound from stock to custom (okay, all the upgrades sounded the same, but at least the stock version didn't). I haven't tested this in GT4, but if niky's tested this, I guess they dropped the ball here. I agree the racing tranny should be loud and "notchy" sounding, while most stock trannies should be pretty quiet.

Interestingly the Mazda RX-8 (in RL) has slightly straight-cut gears. I can hear the whine in my RX-8, mainly in 1st and 2nd, but it doesn't drown out the engine.

I think part of the problem is that the sounds are either from the rear of the car (follow cam) or IMO from UNDER the car (bumper and roof cam), perhaps near the flywheel, which might explain the relative volume of the gearbox. This would also explain the absense of exhaust note in these two views.

 

[Jedi2016]

The other thing I noticed, after fiddling with some sound effects on my computer, is that PD uses only a single-RPM sound sample for most of the cars.

For example, they might have recorded the car at 2000rpm. That single sound is trimmed into a loopable clip that's just a few seconds long. Then they simply speed up or slow down the sound to represent the varying RPMs. While this works on paper, it doesn't really work that well in real life. I have a sound here, of some unidentified car running at mid-RPMs, around 2000-3000. When I start ramping the sound up and down, it ends up sounding very "GT-fake", even though the sound in question is quite real.

So why do they do it this way? My guess would be a combination of system limitations and audio/visual balance by the programmers. They spend so much time making the game look the best that they can, that by the time they're done, there's barely any power or memory left over for the audio. So it can't use what I'm assuming are more memory- and power-intensive audio mixing/creation techniques, the sort of thing that the NFS crew did in NFS:U2.

All we can do is hope that, come GT5, they realize how badly their engine audio is starting to fall behind their competition, and start working equally on both audio and video... GT5 doesn't just need to look good, it needs to sound good, too. We know it can be done.. other games do it, especially on PC games (have you heard the sound clip from TOCA3? Holy crap), so hopefully they'll actually do something about it on PS3.

 

[~Sp33~]

There are certain cars in the game that get a raspy sound as they climb the rev range... which would mean that its either not just one sound and just speeding/slowing it down, or at certain points in the rev range they attach certain other parts of audio to certain cars to give that extra sound

 

[Jedi2016]

There are a few like that, yes, and those are the ones that sound better. The Shelby Cobra 427, for example.. if you rev up slowly, you can clearly hear when it changes from one sound to another. That sort of cross-fading is what the really good-sounding games use. I think the trick is to pack as many samples as you can into it. Record the car at 500rpm increments, and use them all. It's the only way to really make them sound real.