Audi MINI-Competitor Confirmed

[Poverty]

A golf and a3's engines are both placed in near enough the exact same position. Audi and VW dont share any other platforms than that of the golf/a3 these days.

Anyway the next gen of audis are on the way, so lets see how those pan out. I hope they fix most their flaws.

 

[Dave A]

Well I was generalising with the engine placement, in the A3 it is in effect a more expensive VW Golf there's very little different, which is again just like a SEAT Leon so I wouldn't expect big differences. The next generation of Audis sound promising but tbh despite the shortfalls of Audi's current and past I've generally liked them anyway (except for the TT) and even if the newer Audi's arn't as perfect as BMW's or Mercedes I'll probably still prefer them .

 

[Tornado]

the new A2 would be a instant and guaranteed hit. Just look at how well the A3 is doing. If audi can make a cute looking car, thats nimble, safe, easy to park and with the usual class leading interior it will be a major sucess, especially with those very economical engines VAG has.

Not in America it won't be. Which is Audi's biggest market I think. And remember in a car that small it has to be cheap before it is refined, and if Audi gets that wrong they houldn't even bother with it. And I doubt Audi will come up woth a legitimate Mini competitor.

 

[Poverty]

Not in America it won't be. Which is Audi's biggest market I think. And remember in a car that small it has to be cheap before it is refined, and if Audi gets that wrong they houldn't even bother with it. And I doubt Audi will come up woth a legitimate Mini competitor.

For the european market it has to be refined first of all, and cheaper than the A3 second.

America is probably audi's smallest market. Audi sell hardly any cars over there, and im not surprised as americans dont seem to rate them like the rest of the world. Either that or those head honchos at audi of america are incompetent and need sacking.

 

[Tornado]

America is probably audi's smallest market. Audi sell hardly any cars over there, and im not surprised as americans dont seem to rate them like the rest of the world. Either that or those head honchos at audi of america are incompetent and need sacking.

That's bull. America is Audi's second biggest market, and it's largest export market.

 

[Poverty]

That's bull. America is Audi's second biggest market, and it's largest export market.

I think audi only sell like a thousand cars there a month, which is crap compared to bmw and MB's sale figues. I have all the official sales figures, but havent got access to them right now but will check. All I know is that audi sales in america are dismal, and nowhere near other countries when taking into account the amount of people living there, and the amount of cars being sold.

I doubt americans buy more audis that germany and the UK though, hell audi sells more Q7's in europe than over in the states.

 

[Tornado]

I doubt americans buy more audis that germany and the UK though,

?
Germany isn't an export market are they? And America being the leading exported country means it is ahead of the U.K. (barely).

The largest individual export market is the USA with 83,066 units (77,917, up 6.6 percent), followed by Great Britain with 81,374 (77,882, up 4.5 percent) and China with 58,878 (53,702, up 9.6 percent).

 

[Scaff]

I think audi only sell like a thousand cars there a month, which is crap compared to bmw and MB's sale figues. I have all the official sales figures, but havent got access to them right now but will check. All I know is that audi sales in america are dismal, and nowhere near other countries when taking into account the amount of people living there, and the amount of cars being sold.

I doubt americans buy more audis that germany and the UK though, hell audi sells more Q7's in europe than over in the states.

First off Poverty watch the tone, you seem to be hell bent on using the word crap as much as possible and while the swear filter does allow it, the attitude is not on.

Now as far as Audi figures for the US go, well the following are from Audi's 2005 financial report.

As you can see while Audi's US market penetration is very low, it is still the second biggest market for the company in terms of overall sales volume. It is also a growing market (slow but growing) unlike the declining UK market.

As far as a 'new A2' selling in the US, its doubtful that it would challenge the MINI, which is seen (wrongly) as having heritage linking it to the original Mini, which counts for a lot. A link the Audi would not have.

As far as the heads of Audi doing a poor job, well given its the second largest volume market in teh world, I doubt that Germany is too worried at present.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Race Idiot]

lol how can you say a VW understeers less than audi, when they are on the same chassis, except that the audi is lighter than the equivelant golf in 2.0FSI form atleast. The Audi versions of the cars that VW have also got are always faster around the 'ring and hockenheim. Also it depends on what year versions of audi's you drove as they often change settings every other year, and then theres spec trim, tyre and alloy size to take into account.

Where did I say anything about understeer? I'm talking about ride quality and steering feel, not how the car handles. A car can handle realy well, but then be let down because of no feedback from steering which my parents old TT suffered from in spades.

Also did you realy laugh out loud? I mean were you like 'HA HA HA OH RACE IDIOT THAT CARD MAN HE SO FUNNAY?' or are you just running out of magazine articles to quote?

 

[harrytuttle]

A golf and a3's engines are both placed in near enough the exact same position. Audi and VW dont share any other platforms than that of the golf/a3 these days.

I could have sworn that while Audi's and VW's share many of the same engines, they are laid out transversely in VW cars, but longitudinally in Audi's. If that's true, then that would explain why VW sometimes feels more nimble than an equivalent Audi. A front drive layout with a longitudinal engine means it extends much further forward of the front axle, and with the same engine weight that means there is a greater moment of intertia to overcome...naturally leading to a heavy-footed feeling.

Or it could be the difference between Haldex and Torsen, if you're talking about the all-wheel-drive models, although I would have expected Audi's Haldex to come out ahead....

Anyway the next gen of audis are on the way, so lets see how those pan out. I hope they fix most their flaws.

Like eliminating in-house competition?

 

[Scaff]

I could have sworn that while Audi's and VW's share many of the same engines, they are laid out transversely in VW cars, but longitudinally in Audi's. If that's true, then that would explain why VW sometimes feels more nimble than an equivalent Audi. A front drive layout with a longitudinal engine means it extends much further forward of the front axle, and with the same engine weight that means there is a greater moment of intertia to overcome...naturally leading to a heavy-footed feeling.

The A3 has a transverse engine layout exactly the same as the Golf, you are however right about the A4 upwards, they are longitudinally positioned.

A3

A4

Regards

Scaff

 

[Bram Turismo]

On page 1, the car posted looks rather a car with the chassis of a BMW 1-series and headlights and grill of the new TT....Ugly that means, and in the original post the car looks a mixture of headlights of the Nuvolari Concept and front headlights like the M5. That means ugly, as well.

 

[Poverty]

?
Germany isn't an export market are they? And America being the leading exported country means it is ahead of the U.K. (barely).

Those are 2005 figures, I didnt keep an eye on audi sales of that year just the nonthly 2006 ones, and I think audi might be selling more cars in china than they do in the U.S these days, and I think the UK has also taken over the US in sales figures. Im not sure though and I still havent got access to those figures at the moment.

Should be able to get a source from audi sales figures in china though, as they increased by some ridiculous amount from the previous year.

 

[JohnBM01]

Elongated grills on cars can look pretty bad if you don't do it right. I've been... okay with most of Audi's elongated grill designs. I did sort of miss the early 2000 styles where the front grill wasn't seriously elongated. This Audi A1 looks like a very nice and very stylish automobile. My preference in cars has been in the visual and style departments. A car still needs to perform regardless of how it looks, but I've enjoyed the style of the Audi A1. I don't look at this as cars not looking as aggressive and off-key as the Dodge Caliber. Instead, it's a very suitable and quite handsome design. As far as this battling the Mini Cooper, I think this could be a great matchup. I love and respect both Audi and the Mini Coopers. So I'm not really leaning one way and leaving the other for dead. Someone mentioned that this car had a little Subaru in its design. I can sort of see that in some of these pictures. The dead giveaways are its lights. Only that it doesn't have the horrid grill design current Subarus have had since the B9 Tribeca.

Overall, I think the car is wonderfully designed and does a pretty nice job of sharing its corporate face in its design without messing up the entire car's looks. I'll tell you something that is 90% or more not to happen- surpass the Mini Cooper (even if made by BMW) as a trendy and fun car to drive with cult status. Here is an a similar example- as much as I love Mercedes-Benz and their glorious history, I didn't think a lot of people would be interested in the R-Class van. I think it's a beautiful machine from a number of views, but as I've heard, it hasn't been as successful in sales. It's priced pretty damn high, even for a Mercedes-Benz. I don't think you can convince people to get the R-Class van rather than a Dodge Grand Caravan or a Chrysler Pacifica. Not even close to have people get R-Class machines rather than a Honda Odyssey or something like that. A low-powered small car with 4WD probably won't show the Mini what's up. I would still take a Mini Cooper over this machine even though I love this car and the Mini Cooper. And it's no disrespect to this car with Quattro All-Wheel Drive (if the A1 will have Quattro AWD).

Overall out of 100% approval, I'll give this car 87%.

 

[Scaff]

Those are 2005 figures, I didnt keep an eye on audi sales of that year just the nonthly 2006 ones, and I think audi might be selling more cars in china than they do in the U.S these days, and I think the UK has also taken over the US in sales figures. Im not sure though and I still havent got access to those figures at the moment.

Should be able to get a source from audi sales figures in china though, as they increased by some ridiculous amount from the previous year.

Can you provide a verifiable source for these suggested figures because its very, very rare for an automotive company (or any company for that matter) to release final figures ahead of an end of year statement.

The figures I provided can be found on Audi's own website, and are the correct (signed off) figures from its last financial statement. 2006 figure will not be final (and confirmed) until 2006 has ended and they have been independently audited and signed off.

In addition 2006 figure will be almost worthless for real comparison until the end of the year, because you will not be able to compare with previous year figures (for growth) and with the market as a whole.

Take 2005 for the UK for example, by looking at just sales volume they seemed to do well, increasing year on year sales by 4.5%, however in terms of percentage share (year on year) of the whole UK market they dropped 5%. Which means the the UK market grew by a considerable amount and Audi UK failed to take advantage of it, so for 2005 the bosses at Audi UK would have been a damn sight more worried than the bosses at Audi USA.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

Can you provide a verifiable source for these suggested figures because its very, very rare for an automotive company (or any company for that matter) to release final figures ahead of an end of year statement.

The figures I provided can be found on Audi's own website, and are the correct (signed off) figures from its last financial statement. 2006 figure will not be final (and confirmed) until 2006 has ended and they have been independently audited and signed off.

In addition 2006 figure will be almost worthless for real comparison until the end of the year, because you will not be able to compare with previous year figures (for growth) and with the market as a whole.

Take 2005 for the UK for example, by looking at just sales volume they seemed to do well, increasing year on year sales by 4.5%, however in terms of percentage share (year on year) of the whole UK market they dropped 5%. Which means the the UK market grew by a considerable amount and Audi UK failed to take advantage of it, so for 2005 the bosses at Audi UK would have been a damn sight more worried than the bosses at Audi USA.


Regards

Scaff

Well the audi lineup overall was old in 2005, and old for most of 2006.

The TT just got replaced, the Q7 just got introduced, and now comes the R8. The A4 is being replaced next year, and we should see two new audi models in 2007 aswell. The A8 and A7 will come along soon aswell along with a Q5 in the near future.

Currently the only car of audi's that arent overly aged is the A3 and A6.

The sales figures I have are monthly, and official figures from the manufacturer. I also have access to BMW, MB, smart, and porsche.

 

[Scaff]

The sales figures I have are monthly, and official figures from the manufacturer. I also have access to BMW, MB, smart, and porsche.

That still does not provide a directly verifiable source, nor does it change the fact that they will not have been independently signed off, nor are they comparable with the final market in any given country.

Figures provided by manufacturers on a monthly basis are normally indicative figures taken from registration numbers, they will contain a significant number of pre-registrations (if permitted by the country in question) and will not have been subject to audit. They are used for marketing and target projection, and are not normally independently verifiable (the ones I have provided coming from a financial statement are).

All that said you still have done little more than speculate at what these figures may be, so until you can provide them how about we use figures that are both accurate and can be checked by anyone who wishes to.

As far as access to figures goes, its not exactly hard to get if you know the right place to look, I have current figures for all major automotive retailers in the UK YTD to Oct.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

Global sales: October 2006: Audi, BMW, MB

Audi


73,000 (+11.5%) ... YTD 757,700 (+8.7%)

YTD:
Audi A3: 202,400 (+11.3%)
Audi A4 Cabriolet: 25,300 (17.9%)
Audi A6 incl allroad quattro: 195,600 (+12.8)
Audi A8: 19,300 (+ 9.2%)
Audi Q7: 39,300

Source: Audi Press

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BMW


BMW: 94,983 (+2.4%) ... YTD 969,213 (+5.2%)
MINI: 13,821 (-12.6%) ... YTD 160,674 (-8.3%)
Rolls-Royce: 77 (+8.5%) ... YTD 552 (+3.2%)
BMW Group Automobile: 108,881 (+0,2%) ... YTD 1,130,439 (+3.0%)

Source:BMW press

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mercedes - Benz


Mercedes-Benz: 94,200 (+0.0%) ... YTD 940,500 (+8.4%)
smart: 8,300 (-31.3%) ... YTD 96,200 (-20.6%)

Mercedes Car Group: 102,500 (-3.5%) ... YTD 1,036,700 (+ 4.8%)

Source: MB press


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Audi Oct unit sales rise 11.5 pct to 73,000, best October ever

Audi AG, the luxury car arm of Volkswagen AG, said unit sales in October rose 11.5 pct from a year earlier to 73,000, the company's best October ever.

Unit sales in the first ten months of this year rose 8.7 pct year-on-year to reach a record 757,700, Audi said in a statement.

Audi also said it is moving towards achieving a 'new record result' this year, but did not elaborate further.

Source: http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...fx3147113.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Audi ups 2006 vehicle sales target -paper

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Volkswagen's premium car unit Audi has raised its full-year vehicle sales target, a German newspaper on Sunday quoted its chief executive as saying.

Audi CEO Martin Winterkorn told Bild am Sonntag newspaper the firm would sell more than 900,000 vehicles this year after previously forecasting 890,000 vehicle sales.

"Much of this growth is coming from outside Germany -- China, for example, where we plan to sell 250,000 cars by 2015," he told the paper.

Separately, a spokesman for Audi told Reuters that the car maker was considering launching a new small car model.

Source: http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/pro...5&ID=6167


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


All data available. (Oct 2006)

Summary:

BMW brand: 94,983 (+2.4%) ... YTD 969,213 (+5.2%)

MB brand: 94,200 (+0.0%) ... YTD 940,500 (+8.4%)

AUDI brand: 73,000 (+11.5%) ... YTD 757,700 (+8.7%)



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AUDI OF AMERICA, INC
                              OCTOBER 2006 SALES

    Audi US Snapshot
                                           ------  Year To Date  ------
            Oct-06    Oct-05    Yr/Yr %    Oct-06    Oct-05    Yr/Yr %
            Actual    Actual    Change     YTD       YTD       Change
                                           Actual    Actual

    A3         429       631     -32.0%     7,019     4,053      73.2%
    TT          13       128     -89.9%       916     2,443     -62.5%
    A4       2,656     3,586     -25.9%    30,823    31,321      -1.6%
    A4/S4
    Cabriolet 394       483     -18.4%     6,193     7,029     -11.9%
    A6         844     1,382     -38.9%    14,149    14,682      -3.6%
    allroad      -        56         -          3     2,336     -99.9%
    Q7       1,653       N/A       N/A      5,663       N/A       N/A
    A8         442       393      12.5%     4,244     4,451      -4.7%
    Total    6,431     6,659      -3.4%    69,010    66,315       4.1%

Now I just need to find figures of the UK and china.

 

[Tornado]

You completely missed the point:

That still does not provide a directly verifiable source, nor does it change the fact that they will not have been independently signed off, nor are they comparable with the final market in any given country.

Per month basis is irrelevant as that is not the reason why car companies make decisions for sales in certain countries. In addition, taking a certainmonth down makes the stat prey to statistical foibles and random occurences.

 

[Poverty]

it gives the overall year to year difference so far, and who cares if they have not yet been signed off, its not like theres gonna be a huge difference between the figures we have now, or the ones we will get once 2006 is over. Anyway we are trying to find out if the UK buys more audi's than the U.S, and seeing as its from the same source it should settle the argument for now.

I dont see what car company decisions have to do with wether the US buys more audi's than the UK.

 

[Tornado]

I dont see what car company decisions have to do with wether the US buys more audi's than the UK.

Which completely explains Audi's desperate hope to try to cover-up the Unintended Acceleration fiasco in 1988. Come now Poverty: If Audi didn't care about the U.S. being it's 2nd largest market, than why did they design an SUV so obviously tailor-made for it (Q7), regardless of how well it actually sells here? Why doesn't it try to sell cars from a few years prior like VW does in Mexico? If America (or any country for that matter) sales wasn't important, why do companies strive to sell cars here?

 

[Poverty]

Which completely explains Audi's desperate hope to try to cover-up the Unintended Acceleration fiasco in 1988. Come now Poverty: If Audi didn't care about the U.S. being it's 2nd largest market, than why did they design an SUV so obviously tailor-made for it (Q7)? Why doesn't it try to sell cars from a few years prior like VW does in Mexico? If America (or any country for that matter) sales wasn't important, why do companies strive to sell cars here?

What exactly has this got to do with me trying to find out wheter more audis are sold in the UK or the US?

Where have I said audi dont care about the american market?

Audi sell more Q7's in europe than america.

As for the unintended accelerating fiasco blame that unethical US tv channel for lying and cheating.

 

[Tornado]

What exactly has this got to do with me trying to find out wheter more audis are sold in the UK or the US?

Nothing, because you already have the most recent usable statistics from both me and Scaff.

Where have I said audi dont care about the american market?

If the U.S. sells considerably more vehicles than the U.K. Audi will concentrate on the U.S. more, though I admittedly misunderstood what you were saying.

Audi sell more Q7's in europe than america.

And I had already editted my post to fix that error.

 

[Scaff]

What exactly has this got to do with me trying to find out wheter more audis are sold in the UK or the US?

You also said that Audi bosses in the US were poorly performing, and based that statement on simply market share and sales volume in comparison to the UK (China is a total anomaly - its an emerging market that can not be directly compared to established mature markets in this way) , I provided figures that clearly show that when the entire potential market is taken into account Audi in the US gained (by a small amount 0.5%) while Audi in the UK lost (by a large amount -5%).

The figures you have provided so far do not take this very important statistic into account, principally because it is normally only available at the end of year.

Audi sell more Q7's in europe than america.

And we have such a huge amount of sales figure to base this on! The Q7 has not been on the market long enough to state categorically which market will be the stronger of the two, and again its not overall sales figure that will be the indicator, but how much of the potential market for vehicles of this type they are able to capture in each country that will truly count.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Poverty]

last year the US bought barely more audi's than the UK. It could very well be different for this year. Either way giving the economic power, and size of the country the sales figures for audi of america are disastorous.

Edit to reply to scaffs Q7 comment.

Audi has decided to shift Q7 allotments originally intended for the US to europe, so I would presume there is a much higher demand in europe than there is in the US.

 

[Tornado]

Except that Audi has no internal competition in Britian, unless you can find me a British Audi competitor. Audi has to face not only the onslought of BMW and Mercedes bought also the American companies of Cadillac, Buick and Lincoln. Which means there is 3 more companies fighting over an already small niche. And I don't think the Acura brand exists in Britain, so you also have to factor in the TL, RL and TSX.
Now this is balanced out a little by Alfa and Citroen/Peugoet, I'm sure. But otherwise there is far more competition in America in the segment Audi sits in than there is in Britian.

 

[Scaff]

last year the US bought barely more audi's than the UK. It could very well be different for this year. Either way giving the economic power, and size of the country the sales figures for audi of america are disastorous.

I don't dispute that this years figure could be different (but this year is not over and tehy are not yet finalised), nor do I dispute that the US market is only slightly bigger in sales volume than the UK market.

You however seem insistent in ignoring the fact (as stated by Audi) that the US division grew in its market place (which is true growth) and the UK division lost, and lost big (-5% is the truly disastrous figure here). What is the problem you have with recognising this?

Edit to reply to scaffs Q7 comment.

Audi has decided to shift Q7 allotments originally intended for the US to europe, so I would presume there is a much higher demand in europe than there is in the US.

Of which spec and engine type (and a source would be nice), that said demand is demand, its not yet sales. Lets allow the product to bed in and see what effect it has on it relevant market. It would be very foolish to say the model is a success or failure in either market this early in the products life cycle.


Scaff

 

[Poverty]

limming Down: Audi cuts back on Q7 shipments to U.S.

PARIS -- Audi is selling a smaller share of its Q7 luxury SUVs in the United States than expected. And as a result, it's escaping exchange-rate losses associated with the weak dollar.

Instead of the 50 percent initially planned, only about 30 percent of production is heading to the United States, Ralph Weyler, Audi's sales and marketing chief, said in an interview with Automobilwoche last month at the Paris auto show.

Audi has sold 4,010 Q7s in the United States since it debuted here in June. In Europe, Audi sold 17,279 units through July, the last month for which results were available.

Demand for the vehicle is surprisingly high in Europe, Weyler said. "The fact that it is doing so well in Europe is very positive for profitability," he said.

Unlike BMW with its X5 and Mercedes with its ML, Audi isn't building its big SUV in the United States, the largest market worldwide for such vehicles. Instead, it manufactures the vehicle in Bratislava, Slovakia.

Analysts say Audi can hardly make money with the European production, in light of the weak dollar.

At a price starting at $40,620, including shipping, the vehicle is being sold for significantly less in the United States than in Europe. That's because demand for luxury SUVs is sharply down due to rising fuel costs.

The considerable demand for the Q7 in Europe is coming at an opportune time.

"We are positively surprised," Weyler said.

As a result, Audi recently increased production to 300 vehicles a day from 200.

source:autoweek

 

[Tornado]

So it has nothing to do with demand at all. It has to do with Audi's own stupid management ideas.
And again, competition in the U.S. is incredibly high for Audi to show up anywheres from 8 to 11 years years late to the luxury SUV party and expect the car to fly off of the shelves, especially with the new Escalade just coming out and gas prices rising where such veicles are typically popular.

 

[Poverty]

So it has nothing to do with demand at all. It has to do with Audi's own stupid management ideas.
And again, competition in the U.S. is incredibly high for Audi to show up anywheres from 8 to 11 years years late to the luxury SUV party and expect the car to fly off of the shelves, especially with the new Escalade just coming out and gas prices rising where such veicles are typically popular.

Instead of the 50 percent initially planned, only about 30 percent of production is heading to the United States, Ralph Weyler, Audi's sales and marketing chief, said in an interview with Automobilwoche last month at the Paris auto show.

Audi has sold 4,010 Q7s in the United States since it debuted here in June. In Europe, Audi sold 17,279 units through July, the last month for which results were available.

The considerable demand for the Q7 in Europe is coming at an opportune time.

"We are positively surprised," Weyler said.

If demand for the car was there in the US im pretty sure audi would just increase production further, even if they made hardly any money from it, as in the long term it would benifit the brand as a whole, which the manufacturer getting greater exposure.