Audi more profitable than BMW and Mercedes

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Two completely different vehicles. If audi was to release another car in the vain of the A2 again though it would probably sell much better as its brand image is much better.
If Audi was to try the A2 now, it would tank even worse because of the better brand image. The A2 was Audi's Cimmaron, and the better the brand looks the worse something like that will sell.

Have you seen the sales figures for the fabia,polo and ibiza?
Have you seen the badges on those cars? None of them say Audi, making those figures irrelavent. Unless Audi has the balls to go around saying that the A1 will be a rebadged version of those loved cars, which would obviously be a pretty stupid thing to do, none of the competitors' sales make any difference other than to show the internal competition Audi will be going against before they are even touched by Mini.

You have got to be kidding me.

Great driving machines from audi (on par with the competition or above):

TT
A4
A5
R8
Q7
S8 (yes it is better to drive than BMW's offering.
The A4/A5 are completely outclassed by Merc and Beamer both, huge step in the right direction or not. The TT has to go against the SLK (and to a lesser extent the Z4), and while Audi made that Golf chassis do admittedly amazing things, it is still a Golf chassis. The S8 is a performance model in an area where none of the other Germans do performance models (no, big engine S Classes do not count), and does little to bely the fact that the entire A8 range is outclassed in that regard by either Jaguar or BMW (and how the XKR outdoes the S8 anyways).

So you are telling me that all the people that have bought mini's in europe done so primarily because its the best handler in its class? Im sure the majority dont know and couldnt even care :lol:
Which is just a roundabout way of proving my point about Audi's total lack of success in this area, their total lack of heritage in this area, and their total lack of any of the things that have made the Mini a success to non-enthusiasts. Non-enthusiasts who buy the Mini buy it because they want a Mini. Which, all told, was a loved and endeared car worldwide for 40 years. No Audi has that track record or such an easy sales pitch. The Mini, Fiat 500, Ford Mustang and VW New Beetle are all successful for a single unifying reason, one that no Audi has ever had, nor does this one.
 
Great driving machines from audi (on par with the competition or above):

TT
A4
A5
R8
Q7
S8 (yes it is better to drive than BMW's offering)

In terms of being "driving machines"...

I'll grant you TT, maybe. It's reportedly VERy good in FWD 2.0T form.

A4? nope. Not even the new C-Class. The new C-Class comes pretty close, though, but it's just too nannying and safe to be a good drive.

A5? I'll have to try one, first.

R8. Yes. Definitely yes.

Q7? A driving machine? Nothing big drives like an X5 (at least, nothing big not from Porsche)... not yet.
 
If Audi was to try the A2 now, it would tank even worse because of the better brand image. The A2 was Audi's Cimmaron, and the better the brand looks the worse something like that will sell.

The A2 was better than mercedes offering, what however let it down was the extra cost over the a-class, and the fact that at the time mercedes was still regarded more highly than audi.

Have you seen the badges on those cars? None of them say Audi, making those figures irrelavent. Unless Audi has the balls to go around saying that the A1 will be a rebadged version of those loved cars, which would obviously be a pretty stupid thing to do, none of the competitors' sales make any difference other than to show the internal competition Audi will be going against before they are even touched by Mini.

Are are going to be offereing a polo/ibiza/fabia sized car that comes with more luxury, more sporting prowess thanks to much superior suspension and all for a price that is not much more than that of the polo's. Looks like a guaranteed win to me.

The A4/A5 are completely outclassed by Merc and Beamer both, huge step in the right direction or not. The TT has to go against the SLK (and to a lesser extent the Z4), and while Audi made that Golf chassis do admittedly amazing things, it is still a Golf chassis. The S8 is a performance model in an area where none of the other Germans do performance models (no, big engine S Classes do not count), and does little to bely the fact that the entire A8 range is outclassed in that regard by either Jaguar or BMW (and how the XKR outdoes the S8 anyways).

lol no way. First of all the CLK is old like margaret thatcher and in comparison to the fresher and more up to date A5 and 3er coupe, handles like a old lady on cruthces too. The mercedes engines let it down big time too. The big old mercedes cannot compare to the Audi or the beemer.

As for the new A4 (I presume the magazines in america have not had hold of one yet as you guys seriously arent giving the current best in class its due) its better car than the C class and the 3 series. Like I have been saying the 3er is now often coming last in comparos, and the few times it has beaten the new c-class is because mercedes have a range of weak engines compared to that of audi and mercedes. But right now in the majority of tests in germany its audi first, mercedes 2nd and beemer last.

As for the A8 we have had that discussion before. The A8 is regarded by many better than the 7 series, which resoundling always comes last in comparos. The 7er is one of BMW's worst cars.


Which is just a roundabout way of proving my point about Audi's total lack of success in this area, their total lack of heritage in this area, and their total lack of any of the things that have made the Mini a success to non-enthusiasts. Non-enthusiasts who buy the Mini buy it because they want a Mini. Which, all told, was a loved and endeared car worldwide for 40 years. No Audi has that track record or such an easy sales pitch. The Mini, Fiat 500, Ford Mustang and VW New Beetle are all successful for a single unifying reason, one that no Audi has ever had, nor does this one.[/QUOTE]

Since when is heritage so important. I have seen american manufacturers rehash popular old classics that no one bought in modern form. Really most people couldnt care for the mini if the new one was ugly, but it just so happened that its a nice looking car. Heritage doesnt mean all that much as the failures of american car companies rehash's have proven.

Audi doesnt need to look to its past for models, they can come up with fresh new designs that can be major hits, such as the TT. The new VW beetle is another vehichle that was popular in original form, but the new one has been a sales disaster.

A4? nope. Not even the new C-Class. The new C-Class comes pretty close, though, but it's just too nannying and safe to be a good drive.

Im not talking about the old A4, im talking about the new one that in 3.2 Quattro form whith the dynamic drive option is faster around hockehiem than the S5 and the 335i.
 
The A2 was better than mercedes offering, what however let it down was the extra cost over the a-class, and the fact that at the time mercedes was still regarded more highly than audi.
I don't personally think the A2 failing had anything to do with Mercedes' prestige compared to Audi. I think the simple fact that the A-Class was out and offered (on paper) so much more than the A2 was what resigned its fate.

Are are going to be offereing a polo/ibiza/fabia sized car that comes with more luxury, more sporting prowess thanks to much superior suspension and all for a price that is not much more than that of the polo's. Looks like a guaranteed win to me.
I've heard nothing about its potential pricing. Any info? Regardless, you can give cars away and not have a guaranteed win in a niche vehicle.


lol no way. First of all the CLK is old like margaret thatcher and in comparison to the fresher and more up to date A5 and 3er coupe, handles like a old lady on cruthces too.
Which is precisely why I didn't mention the CLK.

As for the new A4 (I presume the magazines in america have not had hold of one yet as you guys seriously arent giving the current best in class its due) its better car than the C class and the 3 series.
Car and Driver drove it around, and while they said that it was much better, they also said that they don't think it has what it takes to down either Merc or BMW.

As for the A8 we have had that discussion before. The A8 is regarded by many better than the 7 series, which resoundling always comes last in comparos. The 7er is one of BMW's worst cars.
Better overall means nothing when merely talking about driving dynamics.

Since when is heritage so important. I have seen american manufacturers rehash popular old classics that no one bought in modern form. Really most people couldnt care for the mini if the new one was ugly, but it just so happened that its a nice looking car. Heritage doesnt mean all that much as the failures of american car companies rehash's have proven.
When half of the Minis sold are sold because it is a retromobile that reminds people of the old Mini (and the Fiat 500 is no doubt that same way), one wouldn't have to think too much to understand how important heritage is. In such a niche segment especially.

The new VW beetle is another vehichle that was popular in original form, but the new one has been a sales disaster.
Pure lol. You must not have been paying attention to the 4 year period in between the New Beetle launch and the New Mini launch where the Beetle pretty much outsold every other car in the segment. Based on styling alone, too, because any sane person would look at it as a really poor use of a Golf platform. Just because it doesn't sell well now doesn't mean it wasn't a success originally.
 
Pure lol. You must not have been paying attention to the 4 year period in between the New Beetle launch and the New Mini launch where the Beetle pretty much outsold every other car in the segment. Based on styling alone, too, because any sane person would look at it as a really poor use of a Golf platform. Just because it doesn't sell well now doesn't mean it wasn't a success originally.

Pure lol myself. I can post a article where VW say they are seriously dissapointed with the new beetle sales figures, and they are thinking of scrapping it all together or redesigning it completely. New Beetle is a big failure.
 
Post mini, but still besides the point, it was a big fail in europe from the beginning.
 
AHA! IN EUROPE!!!!

Toronado's takling from the Yankee side of things, which is what the New Beetle was really aimed at. You cant' assume every market is exactly like Europe.
 
forza2.0
Post mini, but still besides the point, it was a big fail in europe from the beginning.
Says you. It might not have sold as well in Europe as it was in America, but:
  1. It was never as big of an icon in Europe as it was in America
  2. It was still a success initially wordlwide
Regardless of which, I think there are a couple of companies that can tell you that retro styling and long heritage can be very helpful if you put a good car underneath (which the New Beetle is not). Hell, FIAT may not have lasted another to now had the 500 (essentially a less practical Fiat Panda) not started selling in countrywide waves.
 
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