Australian Grand Prix in Doubt Post-2010

[prisonermonkeys]

Taken from GP Update

The future of the Australian Grand Prix at Melbourne's Albert Park has again fallen into question with the state government of Victoria relictant to pay rising fees for hosting the race to Formula One Management.

The cost of hosting an F1 Grand Prix is understood to increase according to Melbourne's deal, justified by the fact that other countries are willing to pay to take the race way from Australia. This year's race cost Victoria state almost $35 million and the current contract expires in 2010.

"The main reason for the increased cost of the Grand Prix is the increased licence fees," Victorian premier John Brumby was quoted as saying by Australia's The Age newspaper. "If you go back to the origins of this event, we were told at the time that this was an event that would break even or make a profit."

"The reality is that since then the licence fees paid to Formula One have continued to rise," he added. "It's not costing more to set-up the event, in fact we're getting more efficient each year - the cost is going up because of the licence increase."

"It's an event in demand around the world so places like Malaysia and Dubai are prepared to put more than $50million a year in licence fees on the table," he revealed. "I think that currently we can sustain the costs but post-2010 the licely cost of licence fees is up and not down."

Negotiations over increased licence costs were the reason that the US Grand Prix will not be back on the calendar in 2008 with the Indianapolis Motor Speedway refusing to pay the price hikes.

So is a move to Surfers Paradise in order?

The Australian Grand Prix could possibly move to the legendary Surfers Paradise street circuit in Queensland, according to reports in the Australian media. The rumour comes after mounting costs to host the race in Melbourne have led to the Victoria government coming in for criticism.

"I believe that the Labour government is preparing to end Melbourne's involvement with the Grand Prix when the contract finishes in 2010," said former Victorian premier Jeff Kennet, who was instrumental in bringing the race to Melbourne from Adelaide.

Queensland Events Corporation chairman Des Power reportedly told Australian media that F1 bosses had approached the Queensland government 'some time ago' to host the F1 race in Surfers Paradise.

"It was a clandestine approach, but the price tag was enormous," he said. "If we were approached again by F1 any proposition would have to be given appropriate consideration."

I certainly hope this isn't the case; Albert Park is a great circuit, and Surfers has long since outgrown motorsport; I have no idea what it would be like by 2011. It's simply too narrow in places and the chicanes really slow things down. However, if they were willing to change the route for the Grand Prix if Formula One ever went to the Sunshine State, I might be inclined to change my mind.

Discuss.

 

[Eagle]

Melbourne has never struck me as a particularly exciting track, nor can I think of any particularly exciting races that took place there, I was always disappointed since the move from Adelaide. Sydney occasionally throws it's hand up to considering hosting an event around the Olympic Park or at Eastern Creek, but will never actually commit the money to it, or have a decent circuit if it does. Queensland was intending to build a new, purpose-built, Tilke facility at the back of the Gold Coast (Surfers Paradise) as I recall, it was mentioned quite a few months ago now, towards the start of the season around the Australian GP. Where those plans are at I've no idea, but if they go ahead the timing would work out well for them, and as a venue I think Surfers is an excellent locale. It would require a large investment in public transport however to get people to and from the circuit, Surfers is basically intended to be navigated on foot from my experience.

 

[Casio]

Melbourne street circuit FTW. (As long as they are happy having nothing but 90 degree turns and flying over tram tracks)

If we don't waste 30million on this we're just going to waste it on some other event that no one cares about like the World Polo Championships or something. At least try it as a night-race in a couple of years and try to get some international publicity.

Otherwise I'm happy for it to go back to Adelaide, because that's an awesome track...

--

Regarding the Sufters Street Track it's not really suited to F1. It's pretty hard to overtake and we don't need another tight, middle of the city, street circuit that's impossible to overtake on during the year.

 

[Muzaffar]

Well thats sad really. I really enjoyed watching the Australian GP in Melbourne a lot. As a season opener, it really is quite a nice place to start a new season. The circuit layout is very unique and very smooth for a street circuit. Well if they don't continue the contract, hopefully they can still get a race in Australia by 2011. Adelaide would be cool (as it always hosted some Le Mans rounds there, or so i thought....) and Bathurst would be excellent!!!! 👍 (but it will never happen... ) but Surfers Paradise? Well, i don't really know the circuit quite well. They did host a few Champ Car races there before, but the layout sucks! Makes it look like the car is crawling.....

 

[Eagle]

Adelaide only hosted the ALMS once sadly, the Race of a Thousand Years on Dec 31 2000. It kicked ass :-D I don't know how suitable it would be for F1 these days, it looks very bumpy given how the V8 Supercars handle around it, and I'm just going to assume F1 cars are even stiffer.

 

[TheCracker]

I'm sure Melbournes a fantastic city, and Albert Park is an attractive location, but the circuit itself is pretty dull. I don't think Surfers, from what i've seen of Champcars footage, would be a suitable alternative either. I think Phillip Island would be a great circuit for F1 to race on, but i doubt they have the infrastructure or money to host such a race.

Mount Panarama anyone?

 

[Sting]

Mount Panarama anyone?

I don't see Mount Panarama being too kind to an F1 chassis. The Dipper and Forest's Elbow has quite a change in level, and could there even be the possibility of car taking off halfway down Mountain Straight at the crest?

 

[TheCracker]

I don't see Mount Panarama being too kind to an F1 chassis. The Dipper and Forest's Elbow has quite a change in level, and could there even be the possibility of car taking off halfway down Mountain Straight at the crest?

It would be great to watch though!

Do they race any single-seater events at the circuit?

 

[Milliethemutt]

Mount Panarama would be great.

I think the bigger implications may be that if "new" F1 countries (and ones that want to join) keep offering more and more money and the license costs keep increasing how long before some of the other circuits have to look at pulling out - I'd hate for somewhere like Spa to lose out for another Tilke item.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

It would be great to watch though!

Do they race any single-seater events at the circuit?

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) Formula Ford races there on the Bathurst 1000 weekend, I'm not 100% sure on this though. They may have in the past.

Well, if Melbourne doesn't get the race after 2010, I'd say it's natural for the race to go back to it's rightful home, Adelaide especially with the "stadium" section being re-designed in 2009.

What happened with the idea of a circuit up in Townsville?

 

[Eagle]

I think Spa, after their pretty large investment in redevelopment, isn't going anywhere. The other factor that keeps tracks like Spa in league is that fact other events take place there. Melbourne hosts precisely one event a year, for which all that infrastructure has to be maintained. Meanwhile Spa plays host to Formula 1, LMS, FIA GT, GP2.

The concept of open-wheel racing around Bathurst would be genuinely unsafe in my opinion, the dips and crests would not be that far removed from running the Nordschleife.

I only ever heard proposals for a street circuit around Townsville that took in the redeveloped shoreline, the map I saw was barely 2km long and looked boring even for a V8 track.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

That sucks, I think Albert Park was a great track for the first race of the season.

 

[Casio]

Broken 8 Minutes ago.

ORGANISERS of Melbourne's Formula One Grand Prix are considering secret plans to shift the race to Flemington Racecourse, the Nine Network reports.



Plans to move the race from Albert Park to Flemington were discussed between Grand Prix chairman Ron Walker and Formula One Management boss Bernie Ecclestone at a meeting in London last week, Channel Nine News reported.


Organisers considered a move to Sandown Racecourse in Melbourne's east, but the site was thought too small, the network said.


The plan had not been considered by the State Government or the Victoria Racing Club yet, but it was believed the move could save more than $20m in set-up costs each year, the network reported.


A decision is due in coming months on the future of the race post 2010, when the current contract expires.


The news comes after a report on the race tabled in State Parliament last week showed that the 2006 event lost $34.6m.

First F1 race to run on a horse racing track? Keep the dirt and have a drift spectacular!

 

[Blake]

Just like kart racing on dirt ovals.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Interesting. Perth converted the Glouster Park trotting oval into a super-special stage for Rally Australia for a few years; if Flemington were big enough (according to Wikipedia, the track covers 1.27 square kilometres), might it be possible to have a kind of stadium-like circuit, complete with crossover and use of public roads?

As for Sandown ... who suggested it and what the hell were they thinking? I think Sandown is one of Australia's most boring circuits ...

 

[Jay]

As for Sandown ... who suggested it and what the hell were they thinking? I think Sandown is one of Australia's most boring circuits ...

Yeah especially considering we have alot of crazy boring circuits


Clearly Aust GP needs to be taken out of Victorias hands and given back to the South Australians again.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yeah especially considering we have alot of crazy boring circuits


Clearly Aust GP needs to be taken out of Victorias hands and given back to the South Australians again.

You're not South Australian by any chance are you ... ?

I knew there was something shifty about you!

 

[Eagle]

Sandown is quite the yawn factory, as noted, and indeed, given the high number of truly boring circuits that the V8 circus visits, that's quite an achievement. Building a track inside Flemington wouldn't make for a particularly interesting circuit imo, and the site received Heritage listing, as GP.com notes, which means development could be problematic.

WRC has been using Super Special Stages in similar arenas for over a decade but the requirements are vastly different. This is the age of 16m+ wide circuits with runoff areas for landing A380s, attempting to cram a F1 racetrack into a horse racing ground would see Melbourne stripped of the contract faster than Bernie can type "Bringing the sport into disrepute".

Whether Adelaide remains a viable alternative I'm not sure, I imagine it would need resurfacing ala Monaco. Realistically, to keep F1 in Australia demands the construction of a new, purpose built circuit like Queensland was planning, not another half-assed attempt at a demountable racecourse. We're not Singapore, we can't afford to do that anymore.

 

[Casio]

What's most curious to me is where they think this Track will run, Flemington is just a suburb that happens to have a racetrack, it's hard enough to access Albert Park for the GP, never mind here.

Possible layout? Tilke eat your heart out

Although if it's going to be moved. I think it should be to Phillip Island.

Or move it to my place, which is much more interesting then either.

 

[Eagle]

The newsreport glorified the tram and rail links to Flemington, I think they're basing it on the fact if it can handle the Melbourne Cup it can handle an F1 event. Either way, they're wrong.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You're right; we do need a high-quality racing circuit. We only really have Philip Island and Bathurst for that, and the Island is probably too narrow and Bathurst too dangerous, particularly through Reid, Sulman and McPhillamy because they're so quick and the barriers are so close. However, they do race on the streets of Monaco and are expanding to Singapore and Valencia, so close barriers shouldn't really be a problem (though Monaco doesn't have any particularly quick sections; Valencia and Singapore remain to be see). The only section that really needs work is probably the Dipper because F1 cars don't respond too well to having wheels lift up off the ground. Conrod may provide a few other problems, but I'm sure the teams could invent an aero aid to prevent the cars from attaining a low orbit.

Formula One drivers are supposed to be the best drivers in the world. Shouldn't they be racing on the best, most challenging circuits we can find? Bathurst has all the basics Formula One needs. It's accessible, it has excellent pit facilities, plenty of spectator viewing places (more stands can always be built if the need arises) and an excellent record. I'll be the first to admit that it needs some work in places (I seem to recall reading somwhere that drivers must be able to take the first corner at a certain speed), but Formula One could do a hell of a lot worse than Mount Panorama. The biggest question is whether is could be afforded; Bathurst isn't exactly a major city like Melbourne.

 

[Eagle]

I doubt there's a speed requirement for Turn 1 or else Spa would be straight off the calendar, and Monaco is pretty slow going as well.

The closeness of the barriers is of no concern, the speeds involved with them definitely are and the undulations would unsettle the delicate aero of F1 cars quite considerably. There's also the slight problem that Bathurst is about 200 kilometres from the nearest international airport, has a standing population of 35,000 which means that it would triple over the course of a race weekend, and there's no method of mass transportation to get there. It's a ridiculously inconvenient place to hold any sort of major sporting event, and the reason why Bathurst has such a low spectator turnout compared to other events.

 

[Milliethemutt]

Formula One drivers are supposed to be the best drivers in the world. Shouldn't they be racing on the best, most challenging circuits we can find?

I totally agree but it seems more and more like they will be racing on the circuits whose governments are willing to stump up the most cash.

I've been to Gloucester park a few years ago and there's no way a F1 race could fit into a stadium. Imagine a couple of cars touching wheels and one going airborne.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I totally agree but it seems more and more like they will be racing on the circuits whose governments are willing to stump up the most cash.

I've been to Gloucester park a few years ago and there's no way a F1 race could fit into a stadium. Imagine a couple of cars touching wheels and one going airborne.

I was simply using it as an example of how a horse racing circuit could double for a motor racing event. I imagine Flemington would be much large than Glouster Park, but still in appropriate.

And Eagle, if there were some way to overcome the difficulties of hosting an event at Bathurst - like getting everyone and everything to the circuit and hosting them for the duration of the weekend - what would your thoughts be then?

 

[Eagle]

I think the circuit is still too narrow, bumpy and undulating/unsettling from the end of Mountain Straight all the way to Forest Elbow. The dipper would be impossible to negotiate safely, the layout would lead to processional running with possible overtaking opportunities into the Chase or at the top of Mountain Straight but not very many, I imagine the gaps out of Forest Elbow to be too great to overcome but I'm not sure. The gravel traps around the chase are find for slowing huge heavy V8 cars, but I'm fairly certain given the angles that an F1 car would pitch and roll in them quite dangerously. Another important factor is clearing vehicles - Monaco has a lot of effort put into having cranes positioned sufficiently for quick vehicle extraction at most of the circuit. Nothing like this exists for Bathurst, vehicles are simply left abandoned where they are until a cleanup truck can reach them. Over the course of a 6-7 hour race with 161 laps, losing 5-6 at a time for a cleanup per crash isn't that big a deal, but we all know the boredom of Pace Car time at Bathurst, especially with the inevitable crash on restart that we see for over 50% of the time the field is released from behind the safety car and thus another Pace Car period ensues. Losing that many laps in an F1 race is unacceptable.

 

[Casio]

Possible Flemington Layout as shown by channel 9.

Well...err...I guess it's original.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Possible Flemington Layout as shown by channel 9.

Well...err...I guess it's original.

Looks like a Scalaterix (sp?) track; five of the seven corners are left-handers (or right-handers, depending upon which way you look at it). How exactly are they going to be able to build over the infield? More importantly, how are they going to deal with safety down at the double-corner at the bottom of the picture?

This is precisely why I don't like Channel Nine.

 

[Casio]

The main problem I had with the layout is getting an under/overpass on a perfectly flat piece of land. As well the cross-over is close to 2 corners, they're need to dig a huge hole down the middle of a horse racing track or a big mountain.

 

[Metar]

(though Monaco doesn't have any particularly quick sections; Valencia and Singapore remain to be see)

While it does have F1's slowest corner (Loew's Hairpin), it also has one of the fastest just three corners later, the tunnel-curve taken over 250km/h... With concrete barriers left and right.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

While it does have F1's slowest corner (Loew's Hairpin), it also has one of the fastest just three corners later, the tunnel-curve taken over 250km/h... With concrete barriers left and right.

True, but it's a very flat corner. Sure, there might be the occasiona bump and manhole cover in the way, but nothing on the scale of the undulations that form Reid, Sulman and McPhillamy Parks at Mount Panorama.