So it bothers me how Forza still doesn't have proper simulation of how automatic transmissions work. Some of the older muscle cars in this game are automatics, but the way they shift in Forza makes it sound like a manual. A workaround I've been trying - using Manual mode and shifting with my G920 shifter (most automatics can be shifted manually in real life anyway, can't they). This makes it sound a bit more like an automatic. But my biggest gripe is with the Buick Grand National. It's supposed to not come off boost between shifts, which is why it's so fast with an automatic in real life, but in Forza the only way to do that is to use manual with clutch and shift without releasing the accelerator which makes it bounce off the rev limiter. How do you guys drive the automatic cars in this game?
Automatic transmissions in Forza
- Thread starter Maxx2013
- 31 comments
- 12,402 views
- 14,438
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
It's likely that they'd have to meet some middle ground with cars considering there are many cars in the game that come in only manual, and many that come in only automatic. The way the automatic mode works is that it's likely just computer assisted manual shifting. Although, I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you ask how we drive the automatics in the game. If I would to answer that, I would just say that if I was driving automatic, there is quite literally only one way to do it.
As for the section in bold, anyone who uses manual/clutch is likely shifting in this manner, especially in competitive racing. Reason being is that it's the fastest way to do it, not only that but it doesn't cause any transmission damage. It's basically like powershifting every gear.
TonyJZX
(Banned)
- 3,945
- Australia
This^
Even in cars that I know are automatic in real life, I just drive them like a clutchless manual.
Thing is people complain about so much stuff and they dont seem to think that this is, in the end, a game. I see people complain about how dual clutch cars change gears faster than how Forza portrays it... or that 1960s muscle cars shift slower than the game or a car doesnt loose boost when it changes.
This is a game. All cars in Forza fit into the Forza car "framework". The global model does not have DRS or KERS or nitrous nor does it model sport hybrid systems.
It has its limitations. I accept that because I'm sitting here eating doritos and drinking mountain dew in my underwear, driving a supercar around the ring with a controller.
Chances are Turn 10 have never sat in a GNX, nor have they ever driven one.
The built their model off a 1:24 diecast scale car and pictures and guessed the rest given the spec sheet.
Even in cars that I know are automatic in real life, I just drive them like a clutchless manual.
Thing is people complain about so much stuff and they dont seem to think that this is, in the end, a game. I see people complain about how dual clutch cars change gears faster than how Forza portrays it... or that 1960s muscle cars shift slower than the game or a car doesnt loose boost when it changes.
This is a game. All cars in Forza fit into the Forza car "framework". The global model does not have DRS or KERS or nitrous nor does it model sport hybrid systems.
It has its limitations. I accept that because I'm sitting here eating doritos and drinking mountain dew in my underwear, driving a supercar around the ring with a controller.
Chances are Turn 10 have never sat in a GNX, nor have they ever driven one.
The built their model off a 1:24 diecast scale car and pictures and guessed the rest given the spec sheet.
I'd agree with you if this game didn't pride itself on being a simulator. We're now on the 6th entry in the series and there are still some limitations that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Is it really that hard for the devs to make dual-clutch cars shift faster? Is it hard to model how a torque converter works? Even Gran Turismo 5 kinda had that (2002 Mercedes-Benz SL). Would DRS and KERS really be that hard to program? Surely none of those are nearly as hard to do as adding 450 ForzaVista cars.
Maybe all of this isn't important to someone who plays with a controller while sitting in their underwear eating doritos and drinking mountain dew. But for someone who bought a high-end wheel to get the most realism out of the game it's disappointing that such limitations still exist.
Maybe all of this isn't important to someone who plays with a controller while sitting in their underwear eating doritos and drinking mountain dew. But for someone who bought a high-end wheel to get the most realism out of the game it's disappointing that such limitations still exist.
- 11,462
- Sweden
- eran0004
It's not hard to add a ForzaVista car. It takes some time, but it's something they've done before and they know how to do it.
Programming a torque-converter is an entirely different thing. It's more of a research and development process. First you need to get an understanding of how it works, then you need to figure out how to express that function in code, and lastly you need to make sure that the code is stable and doesn't flip out under certain conditions. There's a lot of problem-solving involved here.
You can try the first stage yourself: Try to explain how a torque-converter works.
- 14,438
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
I use the right joystick as the clutch, left bumper for upshifting, and right bumper for downshifting.
I chose this way because it is a lot more natural than using the lettered buttons. Keeping the upshift at the opposite side of the gas trigger, and vice versa for the downshifting/brakes, ment there was less interruption when going WOT and upshifting, or braking and down shifting.
- 11,462
- Sweden
- eran0004
That is a fluid coupling. A torque converter is a type of fluid coupling, but it's able to multiply torque (which a basic fluid coupling can't).
And I'm not asking you anything, I'm saying that if you want to experience what it's like to be a game developer you can try to explain how a torque converter works, as that would be the first stage in trying to build a computer model of one. Looking up reference videos is certainly one way to aquire the needed knowledge, but the information in that video alone would not be enough. You'd need to be able to calculate an approximate value of the torque on the rotor (and on the pump, for that matter) for a given coupling size and various pump and rotor speeds.
- 40,995
GT4-GT6 do a bit more than just emulate the sound. It's not really evident, because GT has its own problems with transmission modeling and doesn't model turbo lag, but it does seem to at least fake the power delivery part of an ideal automatic for the cars it was done properly on.
- 4,089
- Utah
I think Enthusia is the only game that has ever simulated an automatic properly, other than a couple of cars in GT4. You'd think that by now Forza would've gotten it right considering how amazingly detailed the game is. I wish at least that they added shifting animations when changing the transmission to add a bit more immersion.
- 78
- Under the Dome
I think it'd be cool if the cars that only came with automatics in real life were only available with a properly functioning automatic in the game and if ya wanted a manual, you could do a swap.
I know that's probably not gonna happen, but it'd be cool.
I know that's probably not gonna happen, but it'd be cool.
- 4
- United States
I am so glad i am not the only one that is pissed off about this. How can you call a game a simulator when you can't even get the transmission right. You know i really hope Forza developers see this and do something about it. Everytime i buy a new forza game i have been hoping for this to change. I hope they change it for ever single forza game in the future especially like the Forza Horizon games were you are not always racing sometimes i just want to explore the map have my car in Drive (automatic) and just cruise along. Why is it so hard for them to simulate this. I have been questioning this for years. If they do that it woul make the game twice as good for me at least.
Drave
(Banned)
- 84
- @ my XBox
If one drives a decent new DSG (as in not a Ford) then you can barely hear it nor feel it, it is very a long way from an Austin Mini Automatic which could easily cost you teeth on the steering wheel when it changed or automotive kaackaa such as the CVT which Fiat used to fit... my hardest thousand mile journey ever was 5 miles in a Punto CVT
Myself I think that gaming consoles and computing are still in their very early days. We're still chipping wheels out of stone...
Though quite why they have to limit the computing power of consoles or the HDD size is odd, except it is chicken and egg I suppose. The game devs have to be able to create games to fit the console abilities and vice versa
Hence presently we are unable to adjust the rear view mirror angle.... or achieve 'full immersion'
No doubt in years to come we will be able to sit in our chairs in our government assigned condo and truly live a 2nd or even 3rd or 10th life in the safety of a VR helmet or even a VR room... because by then I suspect real life will hold all the allure of Blade Runner on a particularly wet day
Myself I think that gaming consoles and computing are still in their very early days. We're still chipping wheels out of stone...
Though quite why they have to limit the computing power of consoles or the HDD size is odd, except it is chicken and egg I suppose. The game devs have to be able to create games to fit the console abilities and vice versa
Hence presently we are unable to adjust the rear view mirror angle.... or achieve 'full immersion'
No doubt in years to come we will be able to sit in our chairs in our government assigned condo and truly live a 2nd or even 3rd or 10th life in the safety of a VR helmet or even a VR room... because by then I suspect real life will hold all the allure of Blade Runner on a particularly wet day
- 4
- United States
i drive a dsg as my daily driver in person (Volkswagen GLI) and it is great except for being kinda jerky when creeping in traffic or so. But that is not even the point i just get so mad at these games when i think about the way the automatic is simulated. Setting up the mirrors and so on yeah you are right about that but since only have one character (example forza) and the height is always the same the mirror is normally set up just fine. But transmission is one of the most important things in a car in real life. Also i would like the idea of buying the car with either a manual or a auto (dsg or traditional automatic whatever) and then you can swap it but would have to pay for that. This whole thing just pisses me off so much that i rarely even play forza anymore just because of that. And if i do i tend to just drive cars that also have manuals in real life and use the clutch with that. So i hate driving like the audi rs cars or lamborghinis and so on.. I really really hope they change this soon!
Drave
(Banned)
- 84
- @ my XBox
There is a now classic UK TV programme by the Name of Black Adder.
As Black Adder says to his side kick in Black Adder 3rd, Sense and Senility "Hope springs eternal, Baldrick...."
So what racing games do you play then?
- 4
- United States
- 8,252
- Drayton Bassett, North Warwickshire
- Duffers999
- Clark Duffy
The boy game I played that did autos properly was one of the more recent NFS games, it was so well done that it would short shift in to highers gears if you weren't full throttle and were part throttle.
- 4
- United States
- 4,176
- Philippines
- GBalao888
- GBalao888
