Automatic vs. Manual: The Ultimate Showdown Thread

[buickgnx88]

I have only owned one vehicle so far, and it's an '89 Jeep Wrangler with a 5-speed (Peugeot BA/10 baby! ). Other's I've driven:
2004 Chevy Silverado, auto (bosses)
1999 Chevy Tahoe, auto (mom's)
2007 Infiniti M35, semi-auto (uncle's)
1996 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, auto (friend's)
2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTX, auto (friend's)
1993 Saturn SC2, 5-speed (dad's)
1969 VW Baja Bug, 4-speed (dad's)

All fun to drive for different reasons, regardless of transmission.
Now my Jeep, it's a blast to have a stick, especially going to school in a hilly area that also gets plenty of snow and ice during the winter. The manual YJ Wranglers do get better mileage than the autos because they get 2 more gears (5 manual vs 3 auto), and more gears also means more of a selection for different situations. The only thing I hated was last winter, I had the crappy Carter carb on it, so when it was cold it would stall out when going to idle, which meant alot of footwork to try and keep it running when at a stop. Now I have a new carb, so it should work much better this winter.

Oh, and about traffic, it can be a bit annoying but you do get quite a workout! Last summer I was going around Chicago and a section of the freeway was flooded from the night before, so we sat in traffic for almost 2 hours to go a couple miles to get off on an exit and detour around the flooded part. Other than that though, don't have to worry about traffic around here. And drinks? My cupholders are big enough to fit the big drinks.

 

[kingcars]

...that accidents happen, and making arrangements because your car requires 4 limbs to operate when there are cars that require only 2 limbs to operate is certainly a "con".

Unless you break your legs/ankles/feet on a regular basis, it's not really a con, since any type of transportation will be more difficult.

 

[Danoff]

No, if you actually read my posts, you'd know that my Tbird was an automatic for the first 5 years I had it.

Wow, what does that have to do with whether you drive stick now?

A) I have no reason to eat or drink in my car

Like... hunger?

B) My interior is in awesome shape and I want to keep it that way

Yea, mine too. But sometimes a compromise is needed. Like when your wife is working 18 hours straight and needs some food but can't leave work long enough to get it and calls you in need of help. I say "sure honey, I'll grab you some food". I guess you say "screw you, get your own damn food, my car interior is too important".

Of course, I know you wouldn't do that - which is the point. It was while doing that that I discovered that my cupholders are inadequately sized - which left me with a pool of coke in my shift boot. I then had to negotiate the road with a hand on the soda.

Point is, stuff comes up.

Haha, you should hear some stories I've heard with used autos. And my whole auto->5 speed swap cost $700 (tranny, pedals, clutch, flywheel, etc...and I coulda done it cheaper if I wanted to), so how the heck is it $1-2k on maintenance? I guess the simplicity of an older car wins!

Acura 6 speed manual = $$

Unless you break your legs/ankles/feet on a regular basis, it's not really a con, since any type of transportation will be more difficult

Breaking isn't required, and it only takes one of the 4 to give you trouble in a manual. Enough trouble that you may not be able to drive your car. Suppose you did break your hand - now you can't drive your car for months while it heals?

You guys are awfully defensive. It's not that big a con, but it definitely is one. Stop trying to argue it.

 

[///M-Spec]

So, I'm seeing an awful lot of manual up there. Have you spent any appreciable time driving a good auto?

Have I driven lots of autos? Yes. Girlfriend's cars. Friend's cars. Co-worker's cars. Service loaners from BMW. Countless rentals.

There was a period in my life where I traveled a week out of every month for almost a year. That is when I grew to loathe the HydraMatic 440-series, which GM put in freaking everything back then. To this day I grimace every time I see an N-body.

So autos, yes. Good autos, not so many.

The wife's Nissan Murano had a CVT. Good tranny. Because the box never, ever needed to kick down, you also got a smooth, predictable swath of torque. It was like a boat motor --but in a good way. Not very exciting though, because the engine speed didn't change much.

The wife's current ride, an Audi allroad has a 5-speed Tiptronic, which VAG license-builds from Porsche. It's a pretty good box. No paddles, but you get a side shift gate. It locks up gears after the car starts moving and will hold a gear when you ask it to. My only issue is it's missing a 6th gear and the 'shift-pattern' is dorked up: you push forward to up shift, down to downshift --which is the opposite of racing style sequential gearboxes.

It amazes me that PORSCHE of all companies decided on this arrangement. It further amazes me that Porsche kept this ass-backward arrangement for their new PDK gearbox --I guess it's because the 911 itself is ass-backward, so they wanted the tranny to suit the car

As I mentioned earlier, the newer 6-speed ZFs that are in recent BMWs, Audis, Jags, even Bentleys are really good autos. Whatever auto Nissan is putting in the new G35 is not bad either, from my test drives.


M

 

[Azuremen]

Honestly, I don't quite get the complaint on stop and go traffic with a stick. I've done it for miles on end for hours. The entire clutch and braking process is subconscious.

I've driven a variety of manuals and autos. From terrible slipping clutch manuals that grind to smooth manumatics that shift quick when you ask. While the manumatic does a good job, there is still something about shifting yourself, with the clutch and all.

While DCT/DSG is the future of performance, there is something to be said about being able to initially having your down shift a few hundred RPM off to get the back end to rotate a little bit more, especially on snow

And Joey, you said you can't notice any difference in driving the manual Mini's to your manumatic? Try it when you are pushing the car to its limits... that slightly slower shift on the manumatic from when you hit the button, and the bit more power lost to the auto make themselves painfully obvious near the limit.

 

[kingcars]

Wow, what does that have to do with whether you drive stick now?

Because you asked if the reason I dont have food or drink in my car is because I drive a stick. And my response was saying that I was that way LONG before the car was a stick. To be a bit more specific, I do pick up fast food and such in the car, since there's really no chance of it spilling. Drinks are more of the issue at hand, and I keep those out of the car.

Like... hunger?

Like...go to a restaurant, or go home and make some food?

Yea, mine too. But sometimes a compromise is needed. Like when your wife is working 18 hours straight and needs some food but can't leave work long enough to get it and calls you in need of help. I say "sure honey, I'll grab you some food". I guess you say "screw you, get your own damn food, my car interior is too important".

Food isn't as much of an issue as drink. I'd pick up the food, but someone would have to come and hold the drinks, or just grab them from wherever we're eating.

Of course, I know you wouldn't do that - which is the point. It was while doing that that I discovered that my cupholders are inadequately sized - which left me with a pool of coke in my shift boot. I think had to negotiate the road with a hand on the soda.

Point is, stuff comes up.

Oh I'm sure, but the lack of cupholders in my car is the issue, not the fact it's a manual

Breaking isn't required, and it only takes one of the 4 to give you trouble in a manual. Enough trouble that you may not be able to drive your car. Suppose you did break your hand - now you can't drive your car for months while it heals?

You guys are awfully defensive. It's not that big a con, but it definitely is one. Stop trying to argue it.

As I said, unless it happens REGULARLY, it's not that big of a deal. Besides, there are plenty of automatic cars I could use for the time being. But it can just as easily hinder someone from driving an automatic. None of us are being any more defensive than you are.

 

[Danoff]

and the 'shift-pattern' is dorked up: you push forward to up shift, down to downshift --which is the opposite of racing style sequential gearboxes.

I know!!! I hate that. Why do they do that? Those things are for people like us, why not take that into account?

 

[Joey D]

Do you disagree with any of mine? If so, which ones?

I disagree that a standard four speed in a regular economy car will give you an un-enjoyable experience in corners. I think you are putting way to much into it. My best friend had a 2000 Mazda Protege DX automatic (with a blazing 105hp) as a loner car for about a week while his Ranger was being fixed by his uncle. His uncle said as long as we didn't destroy it he didn't care if we had fun with it, but we had to use common sense. We tossed it about (this was back in my slightly more reckless days) and I never once didn't have any fun with it. We threw it through corners, over hills, sideways through dirt turns, etc.

Fun it what you make of it, a manual or an auto do not determine this. I do agree that not all autos are equal though. The transmission in the Blazer was awful, mainly because it was broken and slipped really bad. However, as I've said the 6-speed auto in the MINI is awesome and I love, but I will agree it's not a standard auto...although more and more companies are moving towards larger range gearboxes now.

IMO, as long as a transmission's gear ratio is a) user selectable, b) shifts in a reasonable amount of time and c) HOLDS the gear regardless of throttle position and engine speed*, there is no objective reason to say a manual is any better. In fact, those qualities are the same qualities that make manuals so great.

M

My auto fits this criteria perfectly as long as I engage the "sport" button. I'm sure there are many other autos out there that fit this as well.

I suppose I should give my driving resume as well of cars I've driven at length:

- 1995 Plymouth Neon, 5 speed manual (owned)
- 1982 Oldsmobile Delta 88, 4 speed auto (?) (owned)
- 2003 Chevy Blazer, 4 speed auto (owned)
- 2007 MINI Cooper, 6 speed auto with gear selection (owned)

- 2004 Chrysler Pacific, 4 speed auto (?) (parents)
- 2001 PT Cruiser, 4 speed auto (parents)
- 2001 PT Cruiser, 5 speed manual (parents)

And Joey, you said you can't notice any difference in driving the manual Mini's to your manumatic? Try it when you are pushing the car to its limits... that slightly slower shift on the manumatic from when you hit the button, and the bit more power lost to the auto make themselves painfully obvious near the limit.

I haven't and probably won't be in a situation where I'm pushing my car that hard. It's still a daily driver and if I screw up, because lets face it I'm not a driving god, I'm boned. For the amount of driving I do that could even remotely be considered "spirited" I will never get anywhere near the limit.

 

[Danoff]

Because you asked if the reason I dont have food or drink in my car is because I drive a stick. And my response was saying that I was that way LONG before the car was a stick.

That's fine. I've got no problem with that. Thanks for clarifying your position.

Like...go to a restaurant, or go home and make some food?

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Gawsh! Why didn't I think of that? You're a genius!

Oh I'm sure, but the lack of cupholders in my car is the issue, not the fact it's a manual

Again, thanks for clarifying your position. This is useful information.

As I said, unless it happens REGULARLY, it's not that big of a deal. Besides, there are plenty of automatic cars I could use for the time being. But it can just as easily hinder someone from driving an automatic.

Uh... no it can't. You're FOUR TIMES as likely to be affected when you own a manual. So "just as easily" doesn't apply. Don't bother arguing it, I'm right. Move on.

None of us are being any more defensive than you are.

Uh... no. You're trying to challenge something that can't be challenged. Refocus your argument toward something else... like whether or not it actually matters that you're more likely to not be able to drive your car.

Keep in mind that I own a manual and love driving it.

 

[kingcars]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Gawsh! Why didn't I think of that? You're a genius!

hahahaha 💡 👍

Uh... no it can't. You're FOUR TIMES as likely to be affected when you own a manual.

Actually, if you wanna be specific, it's just twice as likely. You still need 1 leg/ankle/foot to drive an auto car, right? My point is that it can still EASILY hinder someone from driving an automatic. Even if it isn't the driving foot, it could make it hard to get in and out of the car, etc etc. If it is the driving foot, well, it doesn't matter what kinda tranny it has, now does it? The chances may be slightly higher, but it doesn't mean auto drivers are immune to it (my mom couldn't drive her automatic Accord for a few weeks due to a knee injury). I'll take my chances with the manual.

Keep in mind that I own a manual and love driving it.

Me too! 👍 Best mod I've done to the car so far was dumping that horrible AOD slushbox.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

$1-2k of transmission work built up in 30k mi? I'd like to see you do that to an auto.

Okay. *cough*neutral drops*cough*

 

[kingcars]

Okay. *cough*neutral drops*cough*

I think that'd roast the tranny in more like 5k miles instead of 30k

 

[Bones Brigade]

^^^

Even the most diehard manual fan should try getting stuck in hours of traffic while rowing a stick. Trust me, it gets old. REAL OLD. There's a reason why my car almost never goes into the city (NYC) and we take the wife's instead.


M

Seattle isn't NYC, but it's not like traffic here is clean sailing. The one time I got stuck in stop and go in the Z, it was a pain, definitely. In my Escort, I hardly even notice. As long as I'm not on an incline I can start from 2nd very easily. And if traffic doesn't creep above 25 (does it ever in stop and go?) then there is no shifting required.

My experience with auto transmissions have all been with traditional 4-speeds and all 4 cylinders with the exception of my dad's Grand Am. And as terrible as the US Escorts are, it's far more entertaining and enjoyable to drive than any of the cars I've driven with an auto trans. Not that any of them were meant for sporting drives either, but if I can find entertainment in an Escort, that should tell you something when I couldn't find any in the comparable auto trans equipped cars.

So as far as traditional auto vs manual, manual hands down, in any scenario. I can't comment on any of the newer autos, but I can tell you that I get a sense of enjoyment and satisfaction from rowing the gears and using the clutch. It's not just about controlling the gears, but how you control them.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I think that'd roast the tranny in more like 5k miles instead of 30k

Exactly my point.

As much bone-headed stuff you can do to a stick, you can do the same to a slushbox.

 

[Rykon Zero]

I don't own any cars, nor am I allowed to, nor should I be driving anything in the first place. I'll just show the order in which I have driven cars.
1. '03 Toyota Sienna (auto)
2. '95 Ford Taurus (auto)
3. '05 Ford Ranger (manual)
4. '02 Dodge Viper RT-10 (manual, and don't ask.)

I've found that I really prefer a manual. I like all the control it gives you, I like the feeling that no one my age even knows what a manual is, and I love the feeling that you are doing everything, you are the one in control. A few disadvantages are that manuals are not as smooth as most autos, and the Tremec in the Viper is as hard to move as a 10 Lb bag of flour.

As for autos, They are very smooth, easy to use, and excellent in stop and go situations. Some downsides are that they take away a feeling of control, like TCS or ASM. Another is that Autos are used so often, few people know how to use them. I'm tired of listening to grinding gears from rich kids taking out daddies toys.

 

[Barracuda]

I've only driven a manual once and even then I didn't exactly drive it, just backed out and changed parking spaces.

My car has a 3 speed automatic and honestly it isn't too bad. 1st and 2nd are pretty short but 3rd feels like it could go on forever. Once up to speed it cruises very well, and my vacuum gauge stays right below 20 (goes to 25)

I'm not really detached from any action either. If I'm cruising along in third I can still step on it with great response, but if I really want to get up and go I can just drop it into second, tromp on it, and she'll eat up the mph like breakfast.

I will agree that a manual would be much better though. My transmission now probably weighs a ton, and the lack of gears and the sweet sound of downshifting make me want to get one right now. For now though I'm happy with my auto, especially since my car is lacking other features which I would like to get before I even think of a manual.

 

[kingcars]

I've only driven a manual once and even then I didn't exactly drive it, just backed out and changed parking spaces.

My car has a 3 speed automatic and honestly it isn't too bad. 1st and 2nd are pretty short but 3rd feels like it could go on forever. Once up to speed it cruises very well, and my vacuum gauge stays right below 20 (goes to 25)

I'm not really detached from any action either. If I'm cruising along in third I can still step on it with great response, but if I really want to get up and go I can just drop it into second, tromp on it, and she'll eat up the mph like breakfast.

I will agree that a manual would be much better though. My transmission now probably weighs a ton, and the lack of gears and the sweet sound of downshifting make me want to get one right now. For now though I'm happy with my auto, especially since my car is lacking other features which I would like to get before I even think of a manual.

This is exactly how I was for the first few years I had my car, before swapping to a manual. You'll love it when you finally get around to it.

 

[Joey D]

As for autos, They are very smooth, easy to use, and excellent in stop and go situations. Some downsides are that they take away a feeling of control, like TCS or ASM. Another is that Autos are used so often, few people know how to use them. I'm tired of listening to grinding gears from rich kids taking out daddies toys.

You are just as in control with an auto as you are with a manual, as said by others you are wishing to say you feel you are more involved.

 

[kingcars]

You are just as in control with an auto as you are with a manual, as said by others you are wishing to say you feel you are more involved.

I still don't have any idea how you come to that conclusion. With a manual, you dont have to switch "modes" to change the way the car shifts. I can launch the car hard, chirp the tires in 2nd gear, then shift the rest of the gears smooth as silk. In every newer automatic car I've been in, you also have to switch modes just to select your own gears (and btw, not every automatic car even has that option, so there goes the main point of gear selection CONTROL down the drain).

4. '02 Dodge Viper RT-10 (manual, and don't ask.)

💡 *Asks*

 

[Rykon Zero]

As for autos, They are very smooth, easy to use, and excellent in stop and go situations. Some downsides are that they take away the feeling of control, like TCS or ASM. Another is that Autos are used so often, few people know how to use them. I'm tired of listening to grinding gears from rich kids taking out daddies toys.

You are just as in control with an auto as you are with a manual, as said by others you are wishing to say you feel you are more involved.

You saw that part, right?

💡 *Asks*

*sigh* Fine. I have an awesome uncle.

 

[Joey D]

I still don't have any idea how you come to that conclusion. With a manual, you dont have to switch "modes" to change the way the car shifts. I can launch the car hard, chirp the tires in 2nd gear, then shift the rest of the gears smooth as silk. In every newer automatic car I've been in, you also have to switch modes just to select your own gears (and btw, not every automatic car even has that option, so there goes the main point of gear selection CONTROL down the drain).

Because you are in no more or less control of your vehicle with an auto or manual. I can corner at 50mph with an auto just fine and 50mph with a manual just fine, both being in control of what I'm doing. You are looking for involvement, which I disagree with.

And I don't have to change modes, if I want to upshift I merely pull a paddle behind the steering wheel. I don't have to switch modes or push buttons, I just need to pull the paddle.

I'm sure I could chirp the tires as well, although I've never actually tried it with my car nor will I because I have more respect for my belonging then that.

You saw that part, right?

I did. My statement stands.

 

[Rykon Zero]

Okay. Fine with me.

 

[kingcars]

Because you are in no more or less control of your vehicle with an auto or manual. I can corner at 50mph with an auto just fine and 50mph with a manual just fine, both being in control of what I'm doing. You are looking for involvement, which I disagree with.

And I don't have to change modes, if I want to upshift I merely pull a paddle behind the steering wheel. I don't have to switch modes or push buttons, I just need to pull the paddle.

I'm sure I could chirp the tires as well, although I've never actually tried it with my car nor will I because I have more respect for my belonging then that.

Well duh, you can corner the same. But can you go straight from 4th gear to 2nd and launch out of the turn? Also, not all autos are like yours. As I said, sometimes my old one would NOT downshift and would just bog down and severely hinder acceleration. How is that considered having control? There are plenty of other things people have mentioned in this thread, which you have ignored and just reply with "Well MY automatic is perfect in every way, shape, and form." And with the whole modes thing, you constantly refer to having to put your car in "Sport" mode, hence my references.

Also, don't even remotely TRY to say that I beat on/disrespect my car. That's far from the case. There's nothing wrong with the occasional romp, as long as it stays occasional (which it certainly does in my case).

*sigh* Fine. I have an awesome uncle.

Sweeeeeeeeeeeet

 

[Joey D]

Well duh, you can corner the same. But can you go straight from 4th gear to 2nd and launch out of the turn? Also, not all autos are like yours. As I said, sometimes my old one would NOT downshift and would just bog down and severely hinder acceleration. How is that considered having control? There are plenty of other things people have mentioned in this thread, which you have ignored and just reply with "Well MY automatic is perfect in every way, shape, and form." And with the whole modes thing, you constantly refer to having to put your car in "Sport" mode, hence my references.

Your old transmission was out of a car that was 20 years old. I'm talking about new vehicles because obviously autos of old weren't the best things in the world.

I was replying to M-spec because he asked me a direct question which was carried over from the GT-R thread which is why I skipped a bunch of posts in this thread. I was going for the ones addressing me. He gave a scenario and I was reacting with it.

You know on the same token you are doing a fair bit of "my manual is perfect in every way shape and form", so it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. My auto is fine, I think it's great for what it is and I'll freely admit I enjoy it much more then the equivalent 6-speed manual Cooper.

The sport mode was in reference to what was being asked.

You have a bit of a strong whiff of manual elitist about you, which is what I strongly dislike among car folks. Like I said, I can respect a manual in every way just as I think most new autos are equally as good.

Also, don't even remotely TRY to say that I beat on/disrespect my car. That's far from the case. There's nothing wrong with the occasional romp, as long as it stays occasional (which it certainly does in my case).

I didn't, if you are OK treating your vehicle like that then whatever. It's not my car so it's none of my concern. I would just never treat one of my vehicles like that because I did at one time and paid the price...which was quite high.

 

[Danoff]

Actually, if you wanna be specific, it's just twice as likely. You still need 1 leg/ankle/foot to drive an auto car, right?

I thought I said not to argue it...

Any of the following can be injured and significantly impair manual driving ability:
1) Left Hand
2) Right Hand
3) Left Foot
4) Right Foot

Any of the following can be injured and significantly impair auto driving ability:
1) Right Foot

See? 1 vs. 4.

 

[kingcars]

Your old transmission was out of a car that was 20 years old. I'm talking about new vehicles because obviously autos of old weren't the best things in the world.

Unfortunately, for most of us poor folks, we're stuck with the older stuff. And even in my mom's 2004 Honda Accord, the automatic is fine and all, but still extremely boring to drive. I haven't driven it enough to weed out any annoying tendencies though.

You know on the same token you are doing a fair bit of "my manual is perfect in every way shape and form", so it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

Actually, not really. My manual tends to grind 2nd gear on occasion while the car is cold; not a big deal considering I paid $275 for the tranny, and it only grinds if I get hasty before it warms up.

You have a bit of a strong whiff of manual elitist about you, which is what I strongly dislike among car folks. Like I said, I can respect a manual in every way just as I think most new autos are equally as good.

Again, not really. For a daily beater, haul-the-kids-around, work commuter car, automatics are fine. But for fun cars, nothing beats a manual. Automatics will never come close, in my opinion. I think you've misunderstood my points.

I didn't, if you are OK treating your vehicle like that then whatever. It's not my car so it's none of my concern. I would just never treat one of my vehicles like that because I did at one time and paid the price...which was quite high.

As I said, it's very occasional, and I don't ever powershift or speedshift the car. As someone mentioned earlier, I also tend to not rev my car up as high as I used to with the automatic. I also do less hard acceleration. Although I think it has more to do with me being more paranoid of things going wrong as opposed to the tranny swap. I'm saving all the fun for when I get my new engine put in .

 

[Joey D]

Unfortunately, for most of us poor folks, we're stuck with the older stuff. And even in my mom's 2004 Honda Accord, the automatic is fine and all, but still extremely boring to drive. I haven't driven it enough to weed out any annoying tendencies though.

What makes you think I'm wealthy? Just because I have a new car doesn't mean I'm rolling in the dough.

Actually, not really. My manual tends to grind 2nd gear on occasion while the car is cold; not a big deal considering I paid $275 for the tranny, and it only grinds if I get hasty before it warms up.

And for what I do my auto is perfect in every way for me. If I was going to do any form of auto cross it probably would be useless. But I think the tires would be a bigger limiter then the transmission because they are rubbish.

Again, not really. For a daily beater, haul-the-kids-around, work commuter car, automatics are fine. But for fun cars, nothing beats a manual. Automatics will never come close, in my opinion. I think you've misunderstood my points.

I have an immensely fun car and that's not just my opinion on it, that's the opinion of many independent reviewers and testers as well. As I've said I've never had a moment where I thought "boy I'm not having very much fun" in my car while driving for fun. I've driven the manual version of my car and didn't think of it as better or worse, more fun or less fun. It was equal in every way, the only thing was is it was slower because I don't drive a manual on a daily bases and was a bit rusty...but that was my fault entirely.

Fun is what you make of it as I've said, you can have fun in any car, whether it is auto or manual, old or new, big or small. I know people who own Crown Victoria's from the 80's and love every minute of driving it. And you know what? If they are having fun, then it's a fun car.

 

[buickgnx88]

I do agree that there are some fun autos (standard, not semi-autos). One example would be our '99 Tahoe. I have plenty of fun in it, taking corners fast and letting the tail slide out, as well as just flooring it at green lights. It also helps that it's only a 2WD, since it doesn't feel real tippy when going around corners.

 

[JCE]

I would like to break it down a bit...

Daily driving to/from work: Automatic -- I do not like using a clutch in traffic, I know how but it just bothers me.
"Spirited driving": A proper manual -- Nothing can me more rewarding tham manually shifting through the gears.
Going sideways: Automatic/Manual -- Either is acceptable.
Street/Drag racing: Manual -- Duh

I do not like flappy paddle gearboxes what-so-ever.

 

[Perfect Balance]

I have a MASSIVE driving resume compared to most of you guys. It makes me feel somewhat special.


Anyway, I dislike conventional automatics. They don't give me the contol over the car itself that I'd like. Not to say that you're out of control when driving a normal automatic, just in hard driving situations, a conventional auto just doesn't cut it.


Even still, the new lancers with the CVT paddle shift transmissions, they have decent upshift speed, and very quick downshifts, but they don't rev match. Going into a corner hard and on the brakes while downshifting still leaves you wishing for a manual.

EDIT: I'd like to add that there's more to a manual that simply "feeling" more involved. Like I've mentioned before, you can change the way a car corners simply by changing the gear your in. For example, in an automatic civic, if I go into a corner with the throttle off, the car kind of rolls through with slight understeer, then you get on the throttle, it take a second to kick in, then it jerks once and you're off.

In my car, I can put it in second gear and go into the corner with no throttle. The slight engine braking preloads the suspension just a little, which makes it turn in more responsively, and it also brakes just enough to keep a little weight on the front wheels without slowing the car down, which makes the car turn tighter and can actually make it oversteer just a little. Nearing the end of the corner, I can smoothly roll back onto the throttle and exit much smoother and quicker.

Braking for the next corner, I can heel-toe my downshift so it's perfectly smooth, and I have instantaneous response at my will.


This does apply to new cars with "newer autos" as well, I drive plenty of them daily. Again, this is only comparing to conventional autos.