Auxiliary areas of various tracks.

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Infineon really is a great track. I was gonna get to it next, but it looks like I won't have to.

Check out this vid below. It's an old NASCAR race from '65, back when NASCAR autos really were based on the cars they supposedly represent, and Infineon was called by its real name: Riverside (aka Riverslide)



Edit: sorry, guys. I tried making one of those nifty youtube video links, but can't figure it out. The link above should work.
 
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Any more sections people can think of? All I can think of is the unused (at least in GT4) chicanes on Tsukuba, Infineon, Fuji, and Suzuka.
 
Hey, theres a part of the nurburgring that used to be run before the karussell was added in. It used to go straight on from where the track now goes right (the corner before karussell), then go over a hill and join back on the first left-right sweeper afterwards (the one that looks like the laguna corkscrew backwards, lol).

I think it was altered because it was considered too fast and dangerous, when you consider the section before it its understandable. Plus, if the guys who created the nurburgring said it was too fast, it must have been crazy.

You can see it properly using the Ford Model T trick i found (search "track breakout"), but can't drive on it unfortunatly. You can also see all of what they modelled of the F1 circuit, it makes a complete loop! though not a hugely accurate one, haha.

Hope this was a valid contribution!

Mephi x
 
Mephistopheles
Hey, theres a part of the nurburgring that used to be run before the karussell was added in. It used to go straight on from where the track now goes right (the corner before karussell), then go over a hill and join back on the first left-right sweeper afterwards (the one that looks like the laguna corkscrew backwards, lol).

I think it was altered because it was considered too fast and dangerous, when you consider the section before it its understandable. Plus, if the guys who created the nurburgring said it was too fast, it must have been crazy.

You can see it properly using the Ford Model T trick i found (search "track breakout"), but can't drive on it unfortunatly. You can also see all of what they modelled of the F1 circuit, it makes a complete loop! though not a hugely accurate one, haha.

Hope this was a valid contribution!

Mephi x
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It was. :)

Hyst
Any more sections people can think of? All I can think of is the unused (at least in GT4) chicanes on Tsukuba, Infineon, Fuji, and Suzuka.
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Yea, I got a couple more. I'll put some pics up tomorrow. 💡
 
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balang_479
Never was it ran anti-clockwise... ever since its creation in 65' it has run clockwise even after all 2 redesigns.
Its probably just a safety route for cars limping back to the pits or something.
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Sorry but you are wrong. This is a clipit from the fuji track guide.

"Fuji Speedway Corporation was established in 1963, as Japan NASCAR Corporation.
At first, the circuit was planned to hold the race of the NASCAR form in Japan.
Therefore, the track was originally designed to be as a 4 km 30?high-banked superspeedway,
but there was not enough money to complete the project and only one of the bankings was ever designed.

Mitsubishi Estate Co. invested in the circuit, and took the management right on October 1965.
A new part of track was built to counteract the problem, and the resultant 4.359 km course proved more successful.
Initially the course was designed to be run anti-clockwise but there were several huge crashes at the banking
and a number of deaths, and it was quickly decided to reverse the direction of racing.
Even this failed to prevent further carnage. The reason that banking was so horrific,
was that at the end of the straight the drivers went over a blind crest at up to 300km/h and dropped into the banking.
At other tracks (Daytona, Monthlery, etc.) the cars climb up the banking.
One of the results was that although there were many brave Japanese drivers there were not too many
with great skill and the death toll from that one corner was horrendous.
This made Fuji Speedway one of the most dangerous tracks worldwide.

In 1974 the banking was abandoned and the track was redesigned to host fast international racing series like
Formula 1. Despite being out of use for over three decades, a big part of the circuit's banked portion is still in existence,
albeit in a decaying state. It is even still visible on Google earth's satellite pictures."

And as you all Know Nascar ovals all run anti clockwise, and fuji was no different. Becuse whan it was suposed to be a superspeedway, they kept the anti clockwise rotation, and like what was said, was very dangerous. so it was changed.

Old fuji embankment
Fuji-Banking_2007_Japan_01_PHC.jpg


fuji5.jpg
 
Heh, it would be interesting to see how would a race in the old bank would end up like:

Driver 1: Ok, here I come!
Driver 2: He's going too fast!
Driver 1: Oh, shhhhhh:censored:
 
Yea that banking looks horrendous.

But I want to state: it seems the original superspeedway-type oval was run counter-clockwise...but what about the track as it appears in our game as Fuji '80s and Fuji '90s?
 
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Parnelli Bone
Infineon really is a great track. I was gonna get to it next, but it looks like i won't have to.

Check out this vid below. It's an old NASCAR race from '65, back when NASCAR autos really were based on the cars they supposedly represent, and Infineon was called by its real name: Riverside (aka Riverslide)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMt0LhpJGlE&feature=channel_page

Edit: sorry, guys. I tried making one of those nifty youtube video links, but can't figure it out. The link above should work.
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Riverside was a very different track. Similar in general shape, but with longer straights, and I believe a banked turn. It was destroyed to make way for a shopping mall..

The real name of Infineon is "Sears Point".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverside_International_Raceway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infineon_Raceway
 
Parnelli Bone
Yea that banking looks horrendous.

But i want to state: it seems the original superspeedway-type oval was run counter-clockwise...but what about the track as it appears in our game as Fuji '80s and Fuji '90s?
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See what I did was take the pictures postred with that little road thing majiggy. And I emailed The information board of Fuji Speedway. Just gave them bull crap about doing a colledge course and writing a paper on Fuji Speedway. Normaly makes people more likley to answer back if they think they are helping you to get and education lol.

And just for the sake of a decent picture. here is what Mephistopheles was talking about, you just see the line in the tree's where the old track would of ran through. this is such an interesting thread.

Untitled-9.jpg
 
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Jesus
that would have been mad driving on that section
really interesting thread Parnelli 👍
 
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I think the Karussel Kutoff of the Nürburgring still exists in real life and is used as a general access road. E.g. a short-cut for safety vehicles. I'm not sure where one would find out whether that bypass was ever intended or used as part of the active race course. I've driven towards it. I forget what car. It might even have been in Tourist Trophy. It's more noticeable in the reverse direction, actually. But you soon hit one of those invisible walls. Visible and invisible walls prevent access to the Infineon drag strip, also.
 
Ghost_drift
See what I did was take the pictures postred with that little road thing majiggy. And I emailed The information board of Fuji Speedway. Just gave them bull crap about doing a colledge course and writing a paper on Fuji Speedway. Normaly makes people more likley to answer back if they think they are helping you to get and education lol.

And just for the sake of a decent picture. here is what Mephistopheles was talking about, you just see the line in the tree's where the old track would of ran through. this is such an interesting thread.

Untitled-9.jpg
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Awesome work there, Ghost_Drift.... +Rep
 
It's a pretty distinct line, and one would think it could be an invaluable aid for safety vehicles, with minimal expense to maintain. With no need to maintain clearance for high-speed competition, the trees might shade the road and obscure it from aerial view, even though the road was maintained. But apparently I'm wrong. Here's a page describing the Steilstrecke (or "Karussel Bypass" as I would call it).

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/olivier.jacquet/Historique vestiges E.htm

Probably not the most important part of the Nordschleife, but unusual enough to see it during a walk around the track.

The steilstrecke is a very steep climb (27 %) that shorcuts the normal track, from the long right bend just before the Karrussell, to Hohe Acht, the highest point of the Ring.

Actually it was rarely used during races, and its main purpose was vehicle testing before WW2.

Though, old men tell the story of a famous driver that drove through the Steilstrecke during free practice of a race . So he did a record breaking lap time, and even if it was an unofficial one, he knew that other competitors , that ignored the trick, would be depressed for the rest of the race.

Today, even on foot, it's still impressive . Better to be confident with the grip of one's shoes on this concrete paved toboggan.
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Why did I think it must be open and used by safety and other official vehicles?
Current maps, showing the current new pit configuration, frequently show it as if it's an alternate route.

http://www.heiser.net/media/2002.09.nurburgring/nurburgring_map_color.jpg
http://www.heiser.net/media/2002.09.nurburgring/nurburgring_map.jpg
In context at
http://www.heiser.net/documents/nurburgring/
 
Ghost_drift
See what I did was take the pictures postred with that little road thing majiggy. And I emailed The information board of Fuji Speedway. Just gave them bull crap about doing a colledge course and writing a paper on Fuji Speedway. Normaly makes people more likley to answer back if they think they are helping you to get and education lol.

And just for the sake of a decent picture. here is what Mephistopheles was talking about, you just see the line in the tree's where the old track would of ran through. this is such an interesting thread.

Untitled-9.jpg
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure the karoussel section has been used since the tracks creation... although it wasnt a banked turn. They may have had two layouts for different vehicles..

The karoussel used to be a normal hairpin, but it used to accumulate alot of water as there was no proper drainage system, the banked section was added but was NOT part of the track... Until a famous F1 driver (whos name i dont have in mind) used the banked section to to obviously go round faster, it then became a standard line to take and was incorporated into the track...


I had a look around for other auxiliary areas and always wondered where the tarmac section at the end of the Nurburgring straight coming into the chiccane went...
appears to go to some weird car park or safety vehicle / ambulance maybe place..
Picture1.png
 
The layout shown for Infineon in post 27 is the stock car course. The sports car course uses turns 4,5,6, and the gray section in 7. The motorcycle course as modelled in TT uses those as well, and the different chicane shown in red, and its hairpin is turn 11a, much shorter than the full 11.

Not modelled in TT since it was added in the last year or two is a sharper turn 1. The bikes continue further and make a sharper, slower left to start up the hill:
Infineonturn1.jpg
 
wikipedia says it was Rudolf Caracciola who started "banking" the Karussell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nürburgring
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Caracciola

That would be well before the current post-war F1 era.
I couldn't find any pre-war pictures of cars using the ditch, however. (Nor did I find any pre-war pictures of the Karussell at all).

http://www.infineonraceway.com/fanguide/maps/
shows several configurations of Infineon, including the AMA/IRL configuration.
But strangely, that page itself does not explicitly show the Sports Car Course.
 
oKay, what about these areas?

img0027.jpg

This is at Laguna Seca just after turn #4. See the dark portion where my Evo VI is driving? Any idea what happened here? Is it supposed to be under construction? Or is it all (light and dark areas) just one huge breakdown area? If you drive on it, both light and dark portions slow you down.

img0028.jpg

And here's another dark area, this one after turn 6, just as we start climbing the hill towards the corkscrew.


img0029.jpg

This hill area makes me curious because in GT2 and GT3, this was a nice, wide straight. I was shocked in GT4 to find it's now very narrow and trickier braking is necessary. :ouch: I know Mazda heavily sponsors Laguna Seca (hence it's named Mazda Laguna Seca), does Mazda have any say in how any ongoing construction happens at Laguna Seca?

Basically I'm wondering if this area got butchered between 1999 and 2004? Or did PD get it wrong in GT2 and GT3? Has this uphill straight always been narrow?
 
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Paved runoff, rather than gravel traps. Paved runoffs give drivers better control, better ability to slow and steer, where gravel traps just dig the car in and disable it. And they might not have been there in earlier versions of Gran Turismo because they probably weren't at the track then. Paving the runoff areas is a recent development, and expensive.

As for the straight being narrower, I dunno.
 
Parnelli Bone
oKay, what about these areas?

View attachment 67632

This is at Laguna Seca just after turn #4. See the dark portion where my Evo VI is driving? Any idea what happened here? Is it supposed to be under construction? Or is it all (light and dark areas) just one huge breakdown area? If you drive on it, both light and dark portions slow you down.

View attachment 67633

And here's another dark area, this one after turn 6, just as we start climbing the hill towards the corkscrew.


View attachment 67634

This hill area makes me curious because in GT2 and GT3, this was a nice, wide straight. I was shocked in GT4 to find it's now very narrow and trickier braking is necessary. :ouch: I know Mazda heavily sponsors Laguna Seca (hence it's named Mazda Laguna Seca), does Mazda have any say in how any ongoing construction happens at Laguna Seca?

Basically I'm wondering if this area got butchered between 1999 and 2004? Or did PD get it wrong in GT2 and GT3? Has this uphill straight always been narrow?
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Problem solved and I have made the text from Trackpedia Undelined and bold.

"The track itself has undergone significant changes over the past two decades to meet evolving safety homologation requirements of the Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme (FIM), Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile(FIA) and other sanctioning bodies. Changes include the addition of the entire infield area in 1988 (present day turns 3, 4, and 5, eliminating the straight that started at present day turn 2 and ended at present day turn 5) extending the track from its original 1.9 mile length to meet the minimum-track-length criteria of the FIM for MotoGP events, plus the more recent relocation of pedestrian bridges and embankments, and the expansion of gravel pits outside turns 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10 for additional run off. The original media center was demolished in 2006 to make way for additional run-off room in Turn 1. Also in 2006, the 'hump' at the top of the Rahal Straight was flattened to accommodate the MotoGP riders, though some claim that this increases the wind effects that can perturb a race motorcycle."

So looks like the gravel pits where exspanded at some point due to safety reasons. So this is why it is so much more narrow there.
And also A very notible part in there that the Hump at the top of the hill has been flatend so, if we get it in GT5 we will all know why its not as steep.
 
Funny thing is, if they had left the track wider, and moved the guardrails back to accomodate more gravel/sand, it would have been safer. :lol:

I'm just kidding. It's not like I'm a expert on track construction or anything. lol
 
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I've got another one, although it's not as good as some of the others in here - When you get the Mulsanne corner on either Sarthe Circuit, it seems like the track actually splits in two - if you sit there when AI cars drive by, they keep close to the right hand wall. But if you go through the green cones that lie there and to the left of a gravel trap (in the middle of the track) you can take the corner wider than on the normal line, the line the AI take. Also, it seems a little piece of rumble strip has been added specifically for this purpose. I would assume that this is some sort of safety feature, perhaps slower cars keep to the left to be passed on the right.

If you don't know what I'm talking about I'll take a picture, but just drive to the end of the Mulsanne straight and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
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Hyst
I've got another one, although it's not as good as some of the others in here - When you get the Mulsanne corner on either Sarthe Circuit, it seems like the track actually splits in two - if you sit there when AI cars drive by, they keep close to the right hand wall. But if you go through the green cones that lie there and to the left of a gravel trap (in the middle of the track) you can take the corner wider than on the normal line, the line the AI take. Also, it seems a little piece of rumble strip has been added specifically for this purpose. I would assume that this is some sort of safety feature, perhaps slower cars keep to the left to be passed on the right.

If you don't know what I'm talking about I'll take a picture, but just drive to the end of the Mulsanne straight and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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You have to remember that Le sarth is a normal everyday road. The reason it branches off, is because if you stay on the left hand side you will end up on the roundabout. the section that the race uses is not used on the normal road.

Untitled-10.jpg
 
That's amazing info. 👍 I hope I can get over to France in my lifetime and drive the public portions of Sarthe.
 
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Nobody previously mentioned that in [size=+1]GT4[/size] on the Mulsanne Straight at Sarthe I, you can thread your way through the barriers which block it at the chicanes. Sort of reminiscent of the slalom license tests.

It seems it should be noted, even if it is common knowledge.
 
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I know La Sarthe is alost entirely public roads, it just seemed weird to me that the rumble strips at that corner make it look like take the wider line through that corner was/is encouraged.
 
Parnelli Bone
That's amazing info. 👍 I hope i can get over to France in my lifetime and drive the public portions of Sarthe.
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Yeah me too. I've been to France quite some times in my life, since I live in Holland/The Netherlands. Still haven't seen Sarthe yet, but a couple of months ago I did visit Spa-Francorchamps! :) Nothing was happening there, really, but is was fun to see the circuit in real life.

Btw, according to Google maps, it takes 6 hours and a half to drive from my house to La Sarthe. :p
 
On the [size=+1]GT4[/size] Sarthe circuits, you can also see at least one closed cutoff for the Bugatti Circuit, I believe.

http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/lemans2.html
http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/lemans.html

But I think there's other closed intersections which correspond to real-life intersections with other public roads?

I've mostly found where turn 11a is at [size=+1]GT4[/size] Infineon Sports Car Course, but not fished out Tourist Trophy to look at the corresponding modeling of the closed run to turn 11, and compare 11a scenery, etc.

I noticed the difference in the TT Infineon course, but had assumed it just reflected track evolution. (Kinda like Grand Valley, but in real life). But I guess not. They are real-life alternate configurations (in contrast to Fuji, which hasn't really retained its old configurations as options in real-life, even though the [size=+1]GT4[/size] models would suggest some of them are just alternate configurations of others).
 
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