Backfire Effects from exhaust?

[Meatwad]

We have to deal with crap like this, thread by thread. It's stupid. Inexcusably stupid. That's why we get cranky. You know what would be great? More cars, more tracks, better sound, better AI, new modes, new features, and so on. What do you want, a medal for stating the blindingly obvious?

Ok, after that ive decided not to ignore your post.

Who gives a **** whether something was stated ywice or 58574876029384 times. IGNORE IT. Car damage is something i knwo everyoen wants in a racing game, but only a few racing games have done it.

Good day to you sir.

 

[jr93alty]

actually, u can measure the temperature of your head on an engine. and egt's were made famous mostly for trucks cuz when they pull stuff up hills and put loads of strain on an engine, the timing begins to retard and the mixture gets richer to protect from detonation. as a result, egt's go up and can become extremely dangerous if they stay up too long. i have a test that anyone with an egt gauge can do. get your car good and warm. put your car in its highest gear at the lowest cruising speed possible. then go wide open throttle to force a rich a/f ratio. this will guarantee that there will be loads of unburned fuel. keep an eye on your egt and report back on what happens. this is not good for your engine so no one has to do it unless you like gummed up motors. i already know whats gonna happen anyway. and NO, egt's and cc temps are not very related. they can be completely different. cc shape, piston top shape, piston rings, and compression can all change the relation between the two. just because u work on your car or are a mechanic doesnt mean the world just like the driver of a race car doesnt necessarilly know how his or her car works. thats why there are differences between mechanics and mechanical engineers.

 

[JNasty4G63]

get your car good and warm. put your car in its highest gear at the lowest cruising speed possible. then go wide open throttle to force a rich a/f ratio. this will guarantee that there will be loads of unburned fuel. keep an eye on your egt and report back on what happens.

Well, once you go WOT, the EGT always goes up. Thats a no-brainer. Once you go WOT, there will be high ammounts of boost entering in the engine, not just fuel. So, more air and more fuel will be hotter for sure. Thats a given, you didn't prove anything there. What I'm saying is, when tuning a car, if the car runs too lean in certain areas, you up the fuel. There is a direct relation to doing this and seeing EGT levels change.

and NO, egt's and cc temps are not very related. they can be completely different. cc shape, piston top shape, piston rings, and compression can all change the relation between the two.

Well, lets see, none of those can be changed while driving (Saabs not included), so that didn't prove anything either. If its hot in the CC, there will be hot exhaust coming out. The friction in the engine only makes so much heat. The heat that you see in the exhaust is directly related to how hot everything is burning in the CC. Lean means more air than needed, which is hot, comparatively. Rich means more fuel than needed, which is cool, comparatively. Like I said, I can show you examples of this from my car. If I drive around casually at a certain rpm and AFR, the EGT will be X hot. Then, if I slighly lower the fuel throughout the rev range, the AFR will get higher, and the EGTs will get hotter, guaranteed. Less fuel means hotter CC temps, and thus higher EGTs and AFRs. What do you think it is that melts pistons on poorly tuned cars??? Just random meltdown??? No, you tune badly, and run lean, it gets hot and things go bad.

just because u work on your car or are a mechanic doesnt mean the world just like the driver of a race car doesnt necessarilly know how his or her car works. thats why there are differences between mechanics and mechanical engineers.

I wasn't saying that I knew everything about every engine out there. I'm just trying to tell you that the things you're trying to say are just not true with any engine I've ever worked on. Maybe there's an engine out there that these things might happen with, but not mine. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but its just not happening.

Hilg

 

[the_undrtaker89]

A burst of flame from the exhaust once in a while would be nice.

 

[Meatwad]

A burst of flame from the exhaust once in a while would be nice.

Like on Colin McRae rally 2, the only of that series ive played. It is a nice effect indeed.

 

[Bahbo]

It's not really needed, but I think it would make a great addition for realism.

 

[JNasty4G63]

Exactly. Not a deal breaker, but would greatly improve realism levels. Graphics and features and stuff like that are initially what bring you into games, but its all the little things you notice later that make them great that keep you playing them. My list of little things would be tire marks and better smoke, reverse lights, and some exhaust flames on cars that would have them. Thats it. Damage, real-time weather, and all that other stuff would be great, but not that important. I'll wait for the hardware that can handle it. We've made it 3 games without them just fine. I'll wait for them to get it right. But the little effects that I brought up would just be nice touches to make a great game spectacular.

Hilg

 

[the_undrtaker89]

Little things can greatly effect a games look and a little fire out of the fart cannon would be very enjoyable.

 

[Eagle]

You know what, I've got a great solution to all this crap. You guys just put all the things you'd like in GT4, be they cars or a damage model or exhaust flames or jet engines or penguins, whatever, into your signature. That way everytime you make a post we'll be reminded that you'd like those things, and we won't have to bother reading your post to see if it's remotely relevant to whatever topic's being discussed. It saves you typing it out all the time too!

I know it's easy to just overlook the idiocy, and believe me, I actually do just ignore things a lot. But we shouldn't have to do that. I know it's idealistic and naive of me to want a world where people manage to stay on topic, search before they post, and only make new threads when topics haven't been discussed before, but isn't this the sort of community we should be striving for? If no one ever tells these people that what they do is wrong we're not going to make any form of progress, ever, we're just going to stagnate at whatever level we make it to.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44516 - Look at that. He can't spell tuner, he double posts, his topic is inherently retarded. We're meant to just sit back and accept that?

You can think I'm an asshole and you can call me one if it makes you feel better, or you can ignore every single post I ever make for the rest of my life, but I treat people exactly as I would expect to be treated myself. The first post I ever made here was in the Settings section of the GT3 forum and minutes after doing so I was back there apologising for posting in the wrong place because I discovered the OLR/Spot Time forum, and I tagged onto a discussion there. Fortunately I managed to do so before anyone jumped on me, and that was reflected in the response of, uh, perhaps it was neon_duke or some moderator that replied to me. If people search for a thread, make a decent go of finding a topic to join in on, then that's fine, and I'll happily post links to anything relevant or discuss the topic at hand. These people don't. If I went and made a thread tomorrow saying "I wish GT4 had damage, and better sound, and a Ferrari Enzo, and Le Mans" I'd expect to get **** heaped on me, and what's more is I'd deserve it.

 

[TheCracker]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


...well theres a reply i can't be bothered reading! - i guess some people just like the sound of their own 'voice'

....meanwhile back on topic - i would much rather have a little lick of flame than a 'virtual photographer' feature in my favourite driving simulator/racing game.

if i wanted to take 'photos' of average cars, i'd go down to my local supermarket carpark and snap away!

 

[Eagle]

...good for you.

These sort of graphical nuances are things that come from refinement and polish on a title, something I would hope GT4 would have been subject to in large amounts given the length of development time.

 

[jr93alty]

JNasty, youre talking about boost. are u assuming every car has forced induction. cuz im talking every engine in general. also, how do u know the relation between head temps and egt's if u didnt even know u could measure head temps. did u just read something somewhere? there is so much fast and the furious crap on the internet with people thinking they know everything that u should speculate on anything. also, i know piston shape and whatnot doesnt change on a single engine but it does change from car to car which therefore changes the relation between temperatures. im talking engines in general, not your car...i have no clue what u even drive.

 

[JNasty4G63]

JNasty, youre talking about boost. are u assuming every car has forced induction.

Now thats just ridiculous. Do you honestly believe that I think every car out there has some form of forced induction??? Give me a break.

how do u know the relation between head temps and egt's if u didnt even know u could measure head temps.

I'm not talking about measuring head temperatures. I said there is no way to exactly measure the temperature IN the CC, and thus EGTs are as close as you can really get. You can most certainly measure head temps, but with them being liquid cooled you don't exaclty get precise measurements. Coolant temps can vary, thus not always giving a precise measurement.

im talking engines in general, not your car...i have no clue what u even drive.

Thats precisely why I was trying to explain to you that the things you "know are true" aren't always true. Every engine is different, you can't just generalize. You were talking about things that I know don't relate to my car. I was just using my car as an example the whole time. Regardless, you can't just asume that one thing that happens and works on Engine A will work and be the same on Engine B. Thats all. And, by the way, my car is in my sig. Its been there for some time now. Its a 97 AWD Talon. And, as you can see by my ET and trap speed, I know how to tune the car. Not EVERY car, I'm saying my car.

Hilg
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[jr93alty]

head temps can be measured where they meet the block which is pretty close to cc temps. also, cc temps fluctuate with every stroke anyway if youre talking about measuring air temperature so im not sure what we're arguing anymore. also, there is a little something called thermodynamics. amount of fuel is related to how much power is made and that fuel has a capacity to the amount of energy it can produce. amount of power made is related to the amount of heat generated (thermodynamics again). bigger more powerful engines are thirstier and burn more fuel...obviously. why do they require more efficient radiators? cuz they generate more heat with extra fuel, power, etc...as ive said before, running rich on a motor just doesnt allow the mixture to heat up as quickly because liquids have a higher specific heat than airs do, therefore the cc temps are "cooled" although its very minimal. the unburned gas however burns in the exhaust pipes causing high egt's...how does this not make sense? does the extra fuel somehow go unburned thru the exhaust and therefore cools it too? i dont understand the argument. also, thats an impressive time you run and im not trying to insult you but come on...you drive an awd car with obviously 400+ horsepower or something like that. rev to 5 grand and go...and getting 400 hp is as easy as pointing and clicking and taking your car to the shop. not saying you do that but it is THAT simple. i know plenty of people with fast cars that have no idea what they have.

 

[JNasty4G63]

how does this not make sense? does the extra fuel somehow go unburned thru the exhaust and therefore cools it too? i dont understand the argument.

I guess I don't either then??? When did I ever say that the exhaust was being 'cooled' by the fuel?? I just said that when a car runs rich, it has more fuel in the CC than needs, thus it burns cooler. Thats why running rich will not burn pistons. When things run rich, the EGT is lower, on MY CAR that is. I don't know about these 'general example' cars that you talk about, just mine. If you consider that 'cooling the exhaust', then I guess thats how you refer to it. So, I guess I'll just stop trying to get you to understand what I'm saying, because it just doesn't happen.

also, thats an impressive time you run and im not trying to insult you but come on...you drive an awd car with obviously 400+ horsepower or something like that. rev to 5 grand and go...and getting 400 hp is as easy as pointing and clicking and taking your car to the shop. not saying you do that but it is THAT simple.

Ok, not to be a dick, but if you think 400hp will get you low 11s, then you need to check your math. A Z06 has 405 and runs mid to low 12s. A Porsche GT2 has 485hp and runs low 12s or high 11s. And, not that I'm saying my car is as great, but an Enzo with 650hp will run low 11s. All of those cars are basically the same weight as my car at around 3100lbs. Now, I'm not saying my car has 650hp because the AWD does help the ET a bit, but I'm saying mid 500s. It made 584 at the front wheels when tuning. With the car back in AWD, less power makes it to the road, so I'll say mid 500s. If you think its that easy to get a 2.0L 4-cyl car to make that much power and go that fast, I feel sorry for you and your magic world of easy horsepower and low ETs.

You can't just order up some parts, slap them on the car, and go fast. Every piece on my car was chosen by ME, put on by ME, and tuned by ME, or me and a friend at the shop on the dyno. And, contrary to what a lot of people think, in an AWD car, you don't just 'rev it up and let it go.' That is, if you want the car to be in one peice when the run is over. Its a balancing act between slipping the clutch and giving it revs. On some of the real fast AWD full-drag cars, they will just rev it up and dump it. But, many of them have stronger axles, TCs, and gearboxs that can handle that. So, as you see, this isn't just some little weekend project I bought and put together, and then went and ran a number. It takes lots of time and effort to get a car like this to almost run 10s. So, not to be rude, but I would have thought someone who knew so much about cars would know that numbers like that don't just happen.

Hilg

 

[jr93alty]

i do know that numbers like that dont just happen but they can. i guarantee you that I could run 11's too. i also know how to drive. also, if a Z06 had 4 wheel drive it wouldnt run 12.4...as a matter of fact, you dont even need engine mods to get a Z06 in the 11's, just drag slicks. so yes, 400 something hp can get you in the 11's...ive seen it myself in a 3000 pound car. when a car has that much power, traction is the way to drop loads of time. your 60ft time is the key, not the top speed. and when it comes to racing with a 4g63 with little torque, maybe u SHOULD rev high and drop the clutch. your car strives on high rpms. Z06's and whatnot are the ones that need to worry about clutch feathering. they can lose traction in third gear. as for your axles and stuff...are u saying you have a weak powertrain. i hope not. you can have axles made to handle 750 hp if u wanted them for a tiny fraction of the price it took to acquire your 500 hp. also, u talk of TC's...yours is a standard right? should be...although an automatic would be nice for the turbo and to relieve stress on the drivetrain.

 

[JNasty4G63]

maybe u SHOULD rev high and drop the clutch. your car strives on high rpms. Z06's and whatnot are the ones that need to worry about clutch feathering. they can lose traction in third gear.

I don't use drag slicks. If I did, I would be breaking things left and right. You obviously don't know DSMs. They are known for 2 things. Having the 4G63 and it being a very stout engine. And, for having drivetrains that are practically made of glass. So, in order to get around that, I just use normal performance street tires (Ecsta MX). Just like any car then, too much gas and I'll spin the tires like crazy, too little and it bogs. So, yes, I do have to work the clutch to get good times. As I said, most of the big time DSM drag cars that DO have strengthened drivetrains will just rev it up and let it go. But, being as this is my daily driver, I don't want to be swapping back and forth from slicks to streets all the time, and worrying about having to replace stuff when it breaks. I'll accept a little wheelspin in favor of longevity.

And, where any turbo car strives in the rpms is dependant on what turbo is in it. Big giant turbo, sure, you'll have to rev the shizz out of it to get going. But, the smaller the turbo, the less you have to spin the engine up to get it going. I use a Garrett ETE52, which is on the medium/large size for street cars. So, it takes a bit to get going, but not much. Full boost is on by 3900rpm, so not too bad.

as for your axles and stuff...are u saying you have a weak powertrain. i hope not. you can have axles made to handle 750 hp if u wanted them for a tiny fraction of the price it took to acquire your 500 hp.

Yes, I do have a weak drivetrain. As I just talked about, these cars are notorious for eating things up. Sure, I could go through and get a fully built trans with dog gears, and a hardened TC, and hardcore diffs. But, then I don't have much of a daily driver. This is my daily car, not a purpose built drag car. I drag it occasionally, but also road race here at M.A.M. every now and then, and also auto-x just about every other weekend. The purpose of my car isn't to just have a fast straight line racer.

also, u talk of TC's...yours is a standard right? should be...although an automatic would be nice for the turbo and to relieve stress on the drivetrain.

As I mentioned, I don't just drag the car, so an auto is out of the question. And, as we all know, with an AWD, the only way to relieve stress on the drivetrain is to either slip the clutch or spin the tires. Its MUCH easier to slip the clutch than always spin all 4 tires and go. There are always going to be things under heavy stress with AWD, you just have to know that going in. I do, and for my daily driving needs, I'm fine with having to replace a clutch every year or so over having to get a trans, TC, or diff rebuilt every other week. So maybe I should have been more specific. I hope you don't think its that easy to just buy parts and go that fast AND have the car stay together. Sure, $$$ can get you anything, but besides clutches, I've never replaced anything twice on my car. It goes fast, and stays together. Again, I didn't just put the car together over a weekend. It was a long process of planning parts and tuning things. So, with that in mind, you tell me how many cars you know that will run low 11s at ALMOST 130mph, time after time after time, and then comfortably drive home on the same setup??? Its not that easy.

Hilg

 

[Meatwad]

You know Eagle, i officially dont like you now.

 

[Sven]

if i wanted to take 'photos' of average cars, i'd go down to my local supermarket carpark and snap away!

Last time I checked, my local McLaren dealer didn't have any F1 GTRs in the showroom

I actually think I'll have more fun with Photo Mode than backfire...

 

[donbenni]

He said average cars. Since when was the F1 average?

 

[Eagle]

You know Eagle, i officially dont like you now.

Take a number.

 

[yeti]

He he he...

I think the man possess a great grasp of wit and a refreshingly dry sense of humour... coupled with being a petrolhead of some degree he makes a great member of GTP!

Shame he's an Aussie though... Go Jonny Wilkinson!!

C.

 

[TrinityJayOne]

Got something against Aussie's, mate?

 

[Gen.]

hiz jealous because we have better cars

 

[TheCracker]

hiz jealous because we have better cars

what? - rebadged Vauxhalls/Opels

 

[eliseracer]

I'm terribly sorry for keeping this discussion going, but I have to say something. After witnessing a major automotive event first hand (Canadian Grand Prix) and being in the presence of many Ferrari being fired up and shot off the line, I have seen wuite a bit of action in the last week. I returned from the races on Friday and turned on my PS2 to play some GT3. I took out the beastly 787B and a 704HP Skyline. Both of them had the sweetest smoothest powerbands, under any RPM. This was so annoying. My ears were ringing all day because I sat mere feet away from F1 cars blasting down through 4 or 5 gears in a matter of a couple dozen yards. They don't do the standard RPM drop for each gear, nice and smooth, these things pop, downright explode! They are just so loud and raspy. Then along comes a BMW/Williams car, who use a special downshifting program, where instead or dropping each gear individually, it just blows through them all at once, a constant explosion. So here I am in my solarium, watching these (almost Renault-like) drive up and down through the RPM perfectly smoothly. The only time that I could get the quality racecar sounds were when I placed my car on the starting line at the testing grounds (400ft/1000ft) and blasted the volume on my TV. Right at the start as the lights counted down, the venues wall picked up a nice rythmical gurgle. I smiled, turned my TV back down to sensible volumes and ran a lil' 1000foot test. The sounds are not realisting. I'm sure the monster like Skyline owuld've been making sound effects like the Rice Krispies slogan...

 

[TrinityJayOne]

what? - rebadged Vauxhalls/Opels

Can you say Commodore? Falcon? Monaro?


EliseRacer, do you own GT4? Try going for a spin in one of the JGTC cars and see the difference over GT3. If you don't own it (shame on you!!), let me know and I'll be happy to record a sound clip for your listening pleasure.

 

[TheCracker]

Can you say Commodore? Falcon? Monaro?

...some people just can't take a joke

 

[yeti]

Can you say Commodore? Falcon? Monaro?

Can you say TVR?

C.

 

[Eagle]

I think the man possess a great grasp of wit and a refreshingly dry sense of humour... coupled with being a petrolhead of some degree he makes a great member of GTP!

*bows humbly*

Shame he's an Aussie though... Go Jonny Wilkinson!!

Want to know what's worse? I'm actually half French, and I love Zinedine Zidane