Bahrain GP 2011 - Should it happen?

[Pezzarinho17]

The decision of whether or not the 2011 Bahrain GP will be rescheduled or cancelled altogether is to be made today. If rescheduled, the season will conclude on December the 11th.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91945

Bernie claims the decision is not about money, but also appears to be ignoring the opinions of drivers and bosses alike, with Mark Webber, Damon Hill, Max Mosley and Ross Brawn all calling for the race to be cancelled. I for one would not mind if the race was cancelled altogether. There are bigger concerns for Bahrain than a F1 race, and given last years "thriller", surely 19 races is enough? I just wonder if that is the same general concensus, or if there are people (who aren't going to benefit financially, Bernie) who really want this race to take place?

 

[Ardius]

I hope if it is cancelled, its cancelled on the grounds of the amount of work all the teams have to do, as Ross Brawn has said, its getting silly again the amount of time all their staff have to work away from home without holidays. Holding races going into December is going to leave them with only a couple of months (if that) off before it all starts again.
Not to mention I doubt the design office will get much holiday at all!

I hope it isn't cancelled due to the political situation in Bahrain. Sports should not be used as a political tool, because where does it stop? What if at some point, the company which owns the commercial rights to F1 (CVC or someone else in future) got into a political mess with one country? Would it also be ok to lose that race? It would be too easy if we set a precedent for the sport to then be abused by the powers that be.

Also - if we are to stop racing in Bahrain because they are treating their population badly, what about China? Perhaps we should stop racing in China because we don't like their attitude with birth control? Perhaps we should stop racing in Britain because they have a congestion charge?
Ok, so the situation in Bahrain is rather more extreme, but my point still stands - once the sport is used as a political statement, what is going to stop it from being used again but as a tool for whoever wishes to use it?

The only grounds on which this race should be outright cancelled are the concerns for the team's staff and the safety of everyone involved. It should not be about the political outlook in Bahrain. I don't see how cancelling the race will change anything to what is happening in Bahrain and I don't think its necessarily a good thing simply to use the sport to make a political message.
So I say cancel it but don't say its cancelled because of politics.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Also - if we are to stop racing in Bahrain because they are treating their population badly, what about China? Perhaps we should stop racing in China because we don't like their attitude with birth control? Perhaps we should stop racing in Britain because they have a congestion charge?

I totally agree with this. If one race is political, then all races are.

So I say cancel it but don't say its cancelled because of politics.

I'm of the belief that the only reason why a race should be cancelled is because it is unsafe for teams and drivers. If the political siutation in a country is so dire that people call for the race to be cancelled, then it is arguably well past the point where the country could be called safe.

 

[Moot]

I hope if it is cancelled, its cancelled on the grounds of the amount of work all the teams have to do, as Ross Brawn has said, its getting silly again the amount of time all their staff have to work away from home without holidays. Holding races going into December is going to leave them with only a couple of months (if that) off before it all starts again.
Not to mention I doubt the design office will get much holiday at all!

I hope it isn't cancelled due to the political situation in Bahrain. Sports should not be used as a political tool, because where does it stop? What if at some point, the company which owns the commercial rights to F1 (CVC or someone else in future) got into a political mess with one country? Would it also be ok to lose that race? It would be too easy if we set a precedent for the sport to then be abused by the powers that be.

Also - if we are to stop racing in Bahrain because they are treating their population badly, what about China? Perhaps we should stop racing in China because we don't like their attitude with birth control? Perhaps we should stop racing in Britain because they have a congestion charge?
Ok, so the situation in Bahrain is rather more extreme, but my point still stands - once the sport is used as a political statement, what is going to stop it from being used again but as a tool for whoever wishes to use it?

The only grounds on which this race should be outright cancelled are the concerns for the team's staff and the safety of everyone involved. It should not be about the political outlook in Bahrain. I don't see how cancelling the race will change anything to what is happening in Bahrain and I don't think its necessarily a good thing simply to use the sport to make a political message.
So I say cancel it but don't say its cancelled because of politics.

You realise sport was invented as a political tool. That's why sport exists, it's a form of diplomacy/power struggling which tries not to involve war or death. If Bahrain wants to participate in sport it must stop killing it's citizens first. We should be thankful sport can be used as a political tool. That's what makes it valid.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That's why sport exists, it's a form of diplomacy/power struggling which tries not to involve war or death.

In which version of history?

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I don't understand the complete politics of the situation, so when I stated the original post I was going on the safety grounds rather than politics that the race be cancelled. I understand what is happening not only in Bahrain but across the middle east is VERY important to the citizens gaining a voice, but in cancelling the race it should not be seen as a political decision. Sport is seperate from those events, so it could not be seen as a 'punishment' that their race be cancelled this year.

Another angle is the business that is generated from the GP (again, without much personal understanding - Business and Politics are not my strong subjects!). The sponsors of the race will want it to take place, but also hosting a GP does generate a vast amount of jobs in upholding the track and events for the weekend.

I agree with everything stated before though, race cancelled but on safety grounds and not because of political views. I remember a report online of the GP2 drivers experiences when in Bahrain for the asia series, as they were all in hotels witnessing the scenes around them. I spoke to one of the drivers just after returning too, it just isn't the place to be sending the F1 circus to for the sake of a race whatever the financial losses are.

 

[Moot]

Anyway it's just been decided it is going ahead after today's meeting, according to President of Bahrain's information affairs authority Fawaz Al Khalifa . No official word from FIA.
Apparently it was a unanimous 26/26 vote.


....
Twitter info/Sky news

 

[Tired Tyres]

It's confirmed on the official F1 website. It's on the 30th of October. India now the last round.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/6/12132.html

Edit. 21 race championship next year!

2012 FIA Formula One World Championship calendar:
11/03 Bahrain
18/03 Australia
01/04 Malaysia
08/04 China
22/04 Korea
06/05 Turkey *
20/05 Spain
27/05 Monaco
10/06 Canada
17/06 United States
01/07 Valencia, Spain
15/07 Great Britain
29/07 Germany
05/08 Hungary
02/09 Belgium
09/09 Italy
30/09 Singapore
14/10 Japan
28/10 India
11/11 Abu Dhabi
25/11 Brazil
* Subject to confirmation

 

[Pupik]

You realise sport was invented as a political tool. That's why sport exists, it's a form of diplomacy/power struggling which tries not to involve war or death. If Bahrain wants to participate in sport it must stop killing it's citizens first. We should be thankful sport can be used as a political tool. That's what makes it valid.

This is well and good for most sports, but Formula One racing is not really as open a sport as say, a soccer tournament nor even an Olympiads; the competitors are largely pre-decided upon as well as the entrants. But I do agree that sport and entertainment does play a unique role in which it has an ability transcend politics at times, and therefore its mere presence (or boycott) can have a marked effect on the populace. I would imagine that most people of any political stripe never want their sport and politics/government to mix, unless absolutely necessary.

The reality is, that many fans can't but aside differences over some dispute that occurred 100 years ago, and get into squabbles in an attempt to be headless heros. Most rivalries are not based on anything logical, anyhow.

Then there's the 1985 South African GP: The French teams boycotted the entire event due to ongoing racial struggles with apartheid. Teams were under enormous pressures with sponsors, but eventually, the race was canned until 1992. I tend to think the FIA made the right decision in that case...but it should be noted that sport shouldn't be used to dictate policy if only because its sponsors are squeamish.

I think its within the rights for competitors to illustrate their own nation's plight, which can help bring about awareness or change, but pointing out the failings or wrongdoing of an competitor's homeland is low blow. An example such as the black American athletes in the 1968 Summer Olympics who were making a stand against injustices in their own country (mind you, an Australian on the shared podium made the same gesture).

A lot of Americans really think that was a low point of the mingling between sport and politics, put sometimes you have to look at your own shadow.

 

[Dotini]

With a lifetime helplessly devoted to motorsport while only gradually developing political and cultural awareness, I find it necessary to sometimes put them in different boxes. This is because they don't always mix well.

All I can firmly say is that Grand Prix racing was originally instituted in the very early years of the 20th century as a means for the major manufacturers of automobiles to demonstrate their wares to an eager and adoring public.

As those commercial interests still dominate the uppermost levels of motor racing, it is appropriate that commercial considerations dictate major decisions. If in today's world of instant media and political correctness, the commercial interests decide to hold a GP in Bahrain, then we must accept that they have carefully considered all factors in their decision.

If the race is held, I intend to enjoy it without much guilt!

 

[cobraagent90]

It's confirmed on the official F1 website. It's on the 30th of October. India now the last round.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/6/12132.html

Edit. 21 race championship next year!

2012 FIA Formula One World Championship calendar:
11/03 Bahrain
18/03 Australia
01/04 Malaysia
08/04 China
22/04 Korea
06/05 Turkey *
20/05 Spain
27/05 Monaco
10/06 Canada
17/06 United States
01/07 Valencia, Spain
15/07 Great Britain
29/07 Germany
05/08 Hungary
02/09 Belgium
09/09 Italy
30/09 Singapore
14/10 Japan
28/10 India
11/11 Abu Dhabi
25/11 Brazil
* Subject to confirmation

US is back... interesting. The circuit will not be indianapolis but Circuit of Americas in Texas designed by Tilke
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Formula_One_circuit

 

[Alex.]

Holy crap really?! Where did you get that intel?

 

[Akmuq]

Haha. Sorry to say cobraagent but that's old news now. It's just the order of the calendar which is really news to us, and maybe that Turkey is still listed, even if only provisional.

 

[astrosdude91]

US is back... interesting. The circuit will not be indianapolis but Circuit of Americas in Texas designed by Tilke
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Formula_One_circuit

Seriously, where have you been? That's like year old news.

I say just forget about the race for this year. Bahrain never really provided all that exciting racing anyways, so it doesn't seem like that big a loss.

 

[lbsf1]

To answer the question in the thread title.

Yes if at all possible. It has been deemed possible by the FIA so it will happen.

 

[Ardius]

You realise sport was invented as a political tool. That's why sport exists, it's a form of diplomacy/power struggling which tries not to involve war or death. If Bahrain wants to participate in sport it must stop killing it's citizens first. We should be thankful sport can be used as a political tool. That's what makes it valid.

An irrelevant point, of course sport is its own kind of politics. That is not the kind of politics we are referring to here, we are referring to not holding a sporting event simply because we don't agree with what a government is doing. This is not what sport is about, its something exterior of sport.

It just opens a big can of worms because as I said (and you have conveniently ignored) where does it stop? You can think of a political reason to not visit pretty much every country in the world. There are plenty of reaons why we shouldn't have a race in China, for example. Why is it so easy to ignore the controversial issues in China but not in Bahrain? Is it simply about crossing a line? Who determines the line?

Some might make a case for sports being a way of increasing people's awareness, but really, it doesn't need F1 to cancel a race to get people aware of this situation.

I don't see how anything changes if a GP is held Bahrain or not. The only things it affects is the image of F1 because if it goes ahead it will of course generate negative publicity. But I don't see Bahrain changing its ways just because F1 doesn't go there any more.
So basically its about some moral ideal that we shouldn't be playing sports or its in bad taste to playing sports while people are being killed/oppressed nearby...that or everyone is just pandering to publicity...of course you don't want to be seen as condoning Bahrain's actions.

I don't like it, I don't like the precedent it sets. I admit I don't want to see the GP go ahead either because its not in good taste..but I don't like seeing the sport start using political reasons to not hold races.

 

[Moot]

No such thing as an irrelevant point. If I thought it, it's relevant. It's what people think that is important, what they feel, what the mood and climate is. The general mood for Bahrain is bad. For China, though they do some bad things, the bigger picture is different, another approach and sentiment can be had, for now.... But a similar situation could happen for a Chinese GP being up for debate, depends what the mood is.
Doesn't matter who is right or wrong, or if they are barking up the wrong tree, which you say I am doing. But the result of my thinking ( don't approve of the race) is counted and added to other people and their own reasons, and you get an average of the peoples mood and intent.
Bernie has made a mistake. How serious we shall see. This October.

 

[Ardius]

Yes it is irrelevant, its effectively like me saying "did you know Banana's are yellow?" as part of my post. Yes sport is inherently political in its definition..but it doesn't have anything to do with why F1 drivers are against racing in Bahrain. Its "outside politics", or in other words politics exterior to the sport.
You can make as many points as you want in a post, they can be all completely irrelevant to the discussion, but then why respond to my post with them? You must have felt they were relevant to what I had posted...and I'm saying I think you missed my point and your points are not relevant to it. Its called discussion and debate.

I've already addressed people's "mood". Why should this be considered? Ok, bad publicity can't be good for the sport but it shouldn't be the reason given for not holding a race there because then the FIA, FOM, FOTA...anyone could use the same reason to not hold a race anywhere. "Oh, the general public's mood is they don't like what China is doing..so we won't hold a race there".

I never said anything about anyone being right or wrong. I do feel its wrong for the sport to take external political actions though.
I actually quite like the race in China and I'm happy to overlook the things wrong in China for it. You know why? Because its simply a motor race. Its got nothing to do with China's problems.
The same really should apply here though I admit its bad taste, I also don't like the sport choosing this path.

I think the most diplomatic thing to do would be to cancel the race for "safety reasons" or "work overload concerns", even if they aren't the real reasons. That way everyone is happy and we aren't setting precedents for cancelling races for whatever reason we don't like certain countries.
I'll also add that I voted "cancel it", to make it clear I'm not saying I'm in favour of the race going ahead.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

To all the people who are saying the race should be cancelled on political grounds, let me ask you this: why is it okay for Formula 1 to judge the politics of one country, but ignore the politics of another?

Take Australia, for example: the Australian Grand Prix relies on funding from the state Liberal government. As Victoria is currently the country's longest-running Liberal state, it forms a healthy power base for the federal opposition. Tony Abbott and the Liberals are currently holding the country hostage by trying to kill each and every environmental policy that the federal government comes up with in an attempt to force an election. They don't actually have a policy of their own, and one suspects that even if the government introduced every single suggestion they made, the Liberals would still try and kill those suggestions. All they want to do is get into power; Tony Abbott doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he just wants to be able to say he is. This, I must add, is my perception of the situation.

So, if Formula 1 cannot accept money from and hold an event in Bahrain because of local politics, why can they do it in Australia in spite of politics?

 

[Ardius]

Likely someone will reply, "because Australia aren't shooting protestors" - but this is the "crossing the line" I was talking about. Bahrain has crossed a big moral line. But once we start making political statements, even if they are with good reason to start with, it opens the door to lesser political statements or simply political moves for reasons other than morality.

I will also add I won't have any problem watching the Bahrain GP because I'm able to watch it as a motor race, not a political statement condoning the situation in Bahrain. Anyone that does have trouble needs to question why they watch the Chinese GP.

I can't wait for people to start criticisng every person or organisation involved in F1 for this..no doubt people will be criticising the BBC for taking part.

 

[Moot]

Yes it is irrelevant, its effectively like me saying "did you know Banana's are yellow?" as part of my post.

You saying bananas are yellow is vital information to the overall quest to find the true colour of bananas. Yes nearly everyone will say yellow, but some won't, either because they are stupid or because they are having a laugh or something else. So it's still good to get that data out in the open and be counted. Of course knowing the colour of bananas is not as important and knowing the effect of sport on politics and vice versa, and whether it should or should not be linked deliberately or otherwise to achieve a desired outcome.
The banana outcome is yellow, the sport/political issue is a bit more complex. But someone somewhere in the world when asked "Do you think the 2011 Bahrain GP should go ahead?" their answer will be in fact "Yellow, sometimes green". Possibly because they thought they were responding to another question but got distracted by the TV.
Collective thought debate there.
Even missed points lead to a conclusion.
I might have missed your point, and made a post connected to it, and was not relevant to it, perhaps by my mistake, but as soon as it gets said it becomes relevant, in the philosophical sense of what my point was about, I said politics is strongly linked and rightly so in my view to sport. And using that view I vote against the GP.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Likely someone will reply, "because Australia aren't shooting protestors"

The Liberals might not be shooting protestors, but Tony Abbott is doing a fine job of holding the entire country to ransom simply so that he can be in power. Which is really, when you get right down to it, exactly what the royal family in Bahrain is doing: holding their country hostage so that they can remain in power. Their methods might differ, but they're doing the same basic thing.

 

[Moot]

To all the people who are saying the race should be cancelled on political grounds, let me ask you this: why is it okay for Formula 1 to judge the politics of one country, but ignore the politics of another?

Take Australia, for example: the Australian Grand Prix relies on funding from the state Liberal government. As Victoria is currently the country's longest-running Liberal state, it forms a healthy power base for the federal opposition. Tony Abbott and the Liberals are currently holding the country hostage by trying to kill each and every environmental policy that the federal government comes up with in an attempt to force an election. They don't actually have a policy of their own, and one suspects that even if the government introduced every single suggestion they made, the Liberals would still try and kill those suggestions. All they want to do is get into power; Tony Abbott doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he just wants to be able to say he is. This, I must add, is my perception of the situation.

So, if Formula 1 cannot accept money from and hold an event in Bahrain because of local politics, why can they do it in Australia in spite of politics?

You are asking the question, why is life unfair and no absolute justice?
There is no such thing. Formula 1, can and should do what it likes to influence any politics it can. It can say it is for moral reasons, if it likes, or any other reason, just use the power of the message it sends to achieve something.
Nothing in life is "OK".

 

[YellowG1]

Drivers don't want it, principals don't want it, crews don't want it. The only person in favor of it is Ecclestone. Seems like a no-brainer. Cancel it.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You are asking the question, why is life unfair and no absolute justice?

No, I'm not. I'm asking why Formula 1 has the right to judge one country's politics, but ignore another's. You paint a picture of the sport being some absolute political weapon which can mould and shape entire nations at will. I want to know why you seem to think it's okay for them to say "We don't agree with Bahraini politics because they're hypocrites, so we're not going to race there", but then turn around and say "We don't agree with Australian politics because they're hypocrites, but we're going to race there". Under your incredibly naive vision, Formula 1 is no better than the people they are trying to ostracise and make an example of.

Formula 1, can and should do what it likes to influence any politics it can.

No it shouldn't - Formula 1 has no business interfering with local politics. When the European Grand Prix moved to Valencia, Bernie Ecclestone came under fire for supposedly manipulating the local political scene. The race was not officially signed off until after local government elections. Bernie didn't want to do a deal with one city council and then have to re-negotiate with another if they were elected, and so he was accused of trying to manipulate the outcome of the local elections to get the Grand Prix going. If he had to deal with the uproar over that, imagine the kind of backlash if he started interfering with national politics. Besides, what if the stance Formula 1 takes is not in line with the stances of individual competitors? What if, for example, the teams want to boycott the race - but the drivers don't want to? Why should they be obligated to observe a political statement that they don't agree with?

Formula 1 is wracked by internal politics often enough as is. There is no need for the sport to get involved in global politics. That's not its place.

 

[Moot]

"The FIA does not mention that a quarter of the staff of the Bahrain International Circuit, which hosts the event, have been detained and given graphic details of being beaten and tortured. Some 28 of them have been sacked or suspended and at least five are still in prison. Others have fled Bahrain."

 

[BobK]

Drivers don't want it, principals don't want it, crews don't want it. The only person in favor of it is Ecclestone.

Drivers don't want it, principals don't want it, crews don't want it. The only person in favor of it is Ecclestone. So it's back on the schedule.

Does this really surprise anybody?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Drivers don't want it, principals don't want it, crews don't want it. The only person in favor of it is Ecclestone. So it's back on the schedule.

Does this really surprise anybody?

No, it doesn't. The ruling elite in Bahrain have a lot of money at their disposal and a passionate love of motorsport... so they're Bernie's ideal kind of customer.

Personally I'm glad the Bahrain decision isn't mine. Still, if the teams are unanimously against it then I'd agree with them.

I saw an interesting article today about travel agencies struggling to clarify with FOM who pays the compensation/fees for rearranging travel for people who've booked to travel to the Indian Grand Prix.

 

[Northstar]

I personally feel that it should have just been canceled. It has nothing to do with politics(I agree with interludes, F1 has no business in politics), or even the fact it's a rather dull track. The reason is that they had their chance to have it earlier in the year and they blew it, they shouldn't have another shot until '12.

But at least it will mean less time in between seasons.

 

[F1 fan]

I personally feel that it should have just been canceled. It has nothing to do with politics(I agree with interludes, F1 has no business in politics), or even the fact it's a rather dull track. The reason is that they had their chance to have it earlier in the year and they blew it, they shouldn't have another shot until '12.

But at least it will mean less time in between seasons.

And more races in F12011 (game)... Plus the possibility of 21 in F12012