Bahrain GP 2011 - Should it happen?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pezzarinho17
  • 121 comments
  • 17,546 views

Reschedule or Cancel the Bahrain Grand Prix?

  • Reschedule it

    Votes: 14 24.6%

  • Cancel it

    Votes: 33 57.9%

  • Don't mind

    Votes: 10 17.5%
  • Total voters
    57
Status
Not open for further replies.
For all the nay-saying that is going one, there's one thing that I find something of an anomaly: the FIA voted unanimously to return to Bahrain. It's not like the decision came down to a final vote - everyone who voted voted to go back. Apparently a few people abstained from voting, but even then, that simply counts as not voting at all; they didn't vote to return, but they didn't vote not to return, either.
 
interludes
For all the nay-saying that is going one, there's one thing that I find something of an anomaly: the FIA voted unanimously to return to Bahrain. It's not like the decision came down to a final vote - everyone who voted voted to go back. Apparently a few people abstained from voting, but even then, that simply counts as not voting at all; they didn't vote to return, but they didn't vote not to return, either.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is that while the FIA voted FOTA didn't... and they seem unhappy with the decision.

It seems that WMSC may be receiving legal representations from FOTA.

The FIA were arguably correct as a matter of contractual principle, the final decision may be swayed by the teams. If teams find that their sponsors withdraw for that event (as it's expected some will) then they will be even less willing to spend money going to Bahrain.

There's still the matter of the huge public re-imbursements that will be required - it's unclear at this time who foots that not inconsiderable bill.
 
Justin
So does participating the Chinese GP or the upcoming Indian GP indirectly support child labor?
Click to expand...
Maybe it does, but the consensus is that what is happening in Bahrain is intellectually more wrong in priority than child labour in China and India. And there is nothing wrong with picking and choosing your morals to suit you. Better to have just one moral sensibility than none at all (meaning just attend all GP no matter what), even if it means your racist or something. Not that this has anything to do with racism just using it as an example. Say if there are doctors that will only help sick people who are white skinned, those doctors are morally above those who don't help any sick people at all but are not racist. I haven't given that much thought, but it's a point open for discussion. Those with only good beliefs contribute nothing to the world. Those with bad beliefs but who do "some" active good, are giving a net benefit to society. Although that would work differently on a physical and psychological level. Psychologically those doctors would cause resentment and conflict, even though they would be doing most good.
I suppose you can't really do simple metaphors for these human situations, no simple solution.
 
Remember that South Africa was also boycotted in the 80's, if the FIA get all upset with the teams they will go off and run their own series, which is what most of them want to do anyway.
 
I think the claims that Bahrain is "back to normal" is pretty delusional. There's some very clear reports that the violence still exists. Just smells like they are papering over the cracks.

Should Sports and politics get involved? Well, they are involved, there's no choice in the matter, our government has a sports minister and a sports dept and I'm guessing most countries will, certainly in Europe.

If we're saying that we won't race in a country that has had severe political issues, then that could be a tricky precedent to set, as others have mentioned, you could apply it to various countries.

Ultimately, I think Sport has to be (barring some instances, like the racial quota system in place in South African cricket) as politically free as possible, but if there's a safety issue, they shouldn't be there. Then again, Brazil has had some instances over the years with F1 staff being targeted, etc.

Should it go ahead? Ask the teams and drivers, they're the guys we should care about.
 
The Foreign Office reported this afternoon that protesters are planning a 'Day of Rage' during their day in the spotlight and that the FO will continue to assess the risks on a daily basis.

If the FO decide to 'advise against all but essential travel' then insurance plans for UK travellers to the GP will be void. Consular assistance may also be limited.

The current situation seems stable although FO advice goes on to say that there are continuing 'security risks' and that the risk of violence is 'ongoing'. The current state of emergency should end on 15th June unless it is renewed by the Bahraini government.

I know this doesn't present a very clear picture, suffice it to say that there ARE still problems of a significant nature and that the political battle between the Shia and Sunni elements of Bahraini society (supported by the ruling classes of Abu Dhabi and Saudi Arabia) shows no signs of ending quickly or quietly.

Teams like McLaren and Ferrari have no choice but to raise their hands in support of the Bahraini GP as we've already seen... but I presume they'd do so while secretly hoping that they'll be outvoted.
 
47 Bahraini doctors and nurses now undergoing secret trial for treating injured protesters:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13673299

Meanwhile, Jean Todt equivocates:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13673349.stm

Really, "safety" is by far the best grounds on which to boycott or protest this race. Jackie Stewart pioneered safety in F1, and it is legitimate. To use human rights or any kind of politics as the basis for de-legitimizing a scheduled F1 race event is without any precedent known to me, and would be tantamount to injecting F1 into politics as some kind of player or pawn in an unsavory arena. Although perhaps the history of the South African and/or Argentinian Grand Prix might be an exception, and bear some looking into.
 
There should not be a boycott or a protest. If it is unsafe to race, then the race should be cancelled because it is unsafe. Boycotts and protests are inherently political, and Formula 1 should avoid that.
 
To all who are saying we should race in Bahrain because we race in China - isn't that a recursive argument? I don't think they should race in China either, but there's not a lot of air behind that motion. A boycott on Bahrain having committed atrocities more openly, can be easier to get behind.

I understand why people say F1 shouldn't be political. But this goes beyond a simple debate on policy like the examples of Australia mentioned before. This isn't about judging one politics over the other. This is about taking a stand on the killing of defenseless people. This is not a "gray area" - there is no gray area when a government is gunning down it's own people to maintain power. That's just wrong in any way you look at it, no matter what kind of politics you prefer. That doesn't mean F1 is going to make a statement for every issue, or get involved in party politics. That's a strawman argument. This is very clear cut.

Anyone who thinks the Bahraini government isn't already using F1 for politics is being very naive.
 
Oh come on, you pessimists. Protesters will add to the spectacle, just like DRS. They can line up on the apex so drivers have to take funny lines through the corners, increasing overtaking! And just think about tire strategy, do you pit before or after the terrorist attack!:lol:

Jk, In all seriousness though, I agree that FOTA should have voted on it, not the FIA. If the teams don't want to go, the race should be cancelled. Having said that, if all the top teams cancelled HRT would probably go just to get some points!:sly:
 
SUPER NUMBBER
To all who are saying we should race in Bahrain because we race in China - isn't that a recursive argument? I don't think they should race in China either, but there's not a lot of air behind that motion. A boycott on Bahrain having committed atrocities more openly, can be easier to get behind.

I understand why people say F1 shouldn't be political. But this goes beyond a simple debate on policy like the examples of Australia mentioned before. This isn't about judging one politics over the other. This is about taking a stand on the killing of defenseless people. This is not a "gray area" - there is no gray area when a government is gunning down it's own people to maintain power. That's just wrong in any way you look at it, no matter what kind of politics you prefer. That doesn't mean F1 is going to make a statement for every issue, or get involved in party politics. That's a strawman argument. This is very clear cut.

Anyone who thinks the Bahraini government isn't already using F1 for politics is being very naive.
Click to expand...

The point is that Bahrain have supposedly crossed the "line" to what some people tolerate.
I was pointing to China as an example of how the sport can exist simply as a sport and not a political decision - does racing in China condone what happens there? No. So why is it different for Bahrain simply because its doing something much worse? Why do people feel that the race going ahead is some kind of tragedy for morality?

aarror
Jk, In all seriousness though, I agree that FOTA should have voted on it, not the FIA. If the teams don't want to go, the race should be cancelled. Having said that, if all the top teams cancelled HRT would probably go just to get some points!:sly:
Click to expand...

FOTA don't regulate the championship.
 
Looks like the Bahrain GP won't go ahead now, Bernie Ecclestone has just changed his mind.
"In a dramatic about-turn, Bernie Ecclestone has been trying to reverse the FIA's decision - of which he was a part of - over the reinstatement of the Bahrain Grand Prix. Formula 1's 80-year-old chief executive has had a change of heart, and written to the sport's 12 teams urging them to express their discontent and demand a re-vote. "
 
That's not what Bernie said at all - he wants a re-vote, with the proposal being to restore India's October 30th date and instead moving Bahrain back to the December date.

But thanks for taking his comments compeltely out of context.
 
Ardius
The point is that Bahrain have supposedly crossed the "line" to what some people tolerate.
I was pointing to China as an example of how the sport can exist simply as a sport and not a political decision - does racing in China condone what happens there? No. So why is it different for Bahrain simply because its doing something much worse? Why do people feel that the race going ahead is some kind of tragedy for morality?



FOTA don't regulate the championship.
Click to expand...

Supposedly crossed the line with SOME people? Does anyone on the planet not currently in a secure institution agree with what the Bahrain government has done?

Yes, racing in China does condone what happens there. That's how international relations work. When you go to a country to "perform" you are giving your tacit approval of that country. Sport is and always has been an extension of politics.
 
Tired Tyres
Yes, racing in China does condone what happens there. That's how international relations work.
Click to expand...
So, why is Formula 1 allowed to race in China and not Bahrain when China lock up political activists on trumped-up charges (do a search for Ai Weiwei and see what you get), deny that they ever invaded Tibet (and claim that nobody was killed during the initial occupation) and actively prevent their people from finding out about things like Tianamen Square (a Google search in China will bring up tourist information and nothing on the massacre)?
 
Because China is a world economic power and everybody wants to be their friend that's why.
 
interludes
So, why is Formula 1 allowed to race in China and not Bahrain when China lock up political activists on trumped-up charges (do a search for Ai Weiwei and see what you get), deny that they ever invaded Tibet (and claim that nobody was killed during the initial occupation) and actively prevent their people from finding out about things like Tianamen Square (a Google search in China will bring up tourist information and nothing on the massacre)?
Click to expand...
You are still trying to judge a system working on total fairness. Why?
F1 can take a one off moral stance at any-time it chooses, why pester them with their holistic beliefs on world harmony? It doesn't have to be the way you are suggesting it should be.
 
Moot
You are still trying to judge a system working on total fairness. Why?
Click to expand...
Because to go to China despite its human rights abuses, but to pass on Bahrain because of its human rights abuses turns the entire Formula 1 community into a group of hypocrites - the same hypocrites they are taking a stand against in refusing to go to Bahrain.

That's why.
 
Moot
Why is that a bad thing or wrong?
Click to expand...
Do I really have to explain things to you? If Formula 1 becomes hypocritical - like the very people it is passing judgement on - then it becomes no better than the people it is passing judgement on. From then on, the sport is compromised. And it would be for years to come, because it would be practically impossible to undo the damage. It would be like the Allies exterminating six million Germans in World War II, and then attacking the Nazis for doing it to the Jewish people.

We have an expression to describe what you're doing: empty vessels make the most sound.
 
It does not matter if "sport" is compromised. Why protect it from hypocrisy or criticism, it just exists.
 
Okay it's fairly obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. And yet, you are still talking. Take the hint and back off - you're only going to embarrass yourself further.
 
Ardius
The point is that Bahrain have supposedly crossed the "line" to what some people tolerate.
I was pointing to China as an example of how the sport can exist simply as a sport and not a political decision - does racing in China condone what happens there? No. So why is it different for Bahrain simply because its doing something much worse? Why do people feel that the race going ahead is some kind of tragedy for morality?
Click to expand...

China has likely gunned down far more Uighurs and Tibetans than Bahrain has gunned down Shia.

interludes
...to go to China despite its human rights abuses, but to pass on Bahrain because of its human rights abuses turns the entire Formula 1 community into a group of hypocrites - the same hypocrites they are taking a stand against in refusing to go to Bahrain.
Click to expand...

Just so! GP racing has a glorious 100+ year history of racing in front of the filthy rich, royalty and fascists. Why change now? If it starts to take on too many airs of moral superiority, it'll become a circus of nannies rather than racers. I can see Damon in a skirt and apron, but please, not Mark!
 
Tired Tyres
Supposedly crossed the line with SOME people? Does anyone on the planet not currently in a secure institution agree with what the Bahrain government has done?

Yes, racing in China does condone what happens there. That's how international relations work. When you go to a country to "perform" you are giving your tacit approval of that country. Sport is and always has been an extension of politics.
Click to expand...

I meant tolerate in relation to holding a race there. Bahrain have seemingly crossed some line where they are now not suitable for a race whereas China is.
 
interludes
Okay it's fairly obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. And yet, you are still talking. Take the hint and back off - you're only going to embarrass yourself further.
Click to expand...
You are so nice to talk to.
 
To quote Mr T.
"Wise men have something to say, Fools have to say something."
 
Interludes and Ardius - the reason why they race in China is the same reason why we're debating the Bahrain race. Because F1 is chock full of callous elitists who see money as the almighty God. Nobody asked ME whether we should race in China, because I would've said the same thing. Should they not be outraged because racing in China would make them to be hypocrites? That's a callous assessment that places a premium on image rather than doing the right thing. Maybe F1 should reconsider participating in oppressive regimes. By racing there, F1 is giving financial support to dictators, and while you may only see the F1 spectacle by it's facade, it's much more than that. Refusal to see it as such does not excuse ignorance.
 
I wasn't aware that the decision to postpone the Bahrain GP had much to do with morality... I was under the impression that the decision to postpone was down to security/safety concerns during a period of on-going civil unrest in the country - that and the obvious commercial implications for the sport. Obviously, "Formula One" is not a person, but a whole cavalcade of different groups of people, each with different view points and agendas, hence, when it comes to assessing the morals of "Formula One", it would be fair to say that there is a wide range of views... the FIA clearly don't mind that Bahrain is a mess, but clearly the teams do. Both the teams and the sport's government ought to consider everything, from safety to the moral implications of racing in a country that is embroiled in controversy, but either way, it would be a great shame if we are not allowed to discuss or voice our views on the matter for fear of being labelled ignorant...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Posts

Back