Ballast position does it work with no weight added

[dr_slump]

It does nothing. All in your head. You are probably doing some laps getting used to the car than moving ballast with no weight and doing more laps and notice you are better. If you didn't move it and just did those extra laps you would of been better anyway due to more laps to get used to the car.

And how can you explain that all my cars run different times on the 1/4mile, 1mile, etc. ?

 

[llNovall]

Very bad programming if it does have an effect. Last time I checked the result of moving nothing was nothing...

Everyone must have missed my earlier post in this thread. An old drag racing trick is to move the car battery to the right rear, behind the rear axle in the trunk. No actual weight was added, only moved to create better traction over the rear wheels. The old seesaw effect. 10lbs directly over the rear axle is 10lbs, where if placed behind near the bumper it has the weighted effect of 100lbs. As I said before, place a bag of dog food on your shoulder, and then hold it in your hand. The weight hasnt changed but the effect of weight due to placement has changed. I think this is the idea of moving 0 weight in the game. Your not adding wgt, only moving existing weight.

 

[XDesperado67]

Everyone must have missed my earlier post in this thread. An old drag racing trick is to move the car battery to the right rear, behind the rear axle in the trunk. No actual weight was added, only moved to create better traction over the rear wheels. The old seesaw effect. 10lbs directly over the rear axle is 10lbs, where if placed behind near the bumper it has the weighted effect of 100lbs. As I said before, place a bag of dog food on your shoulder, and then hold it in your hand. The weight hasnt changed but the effect of weight due to placement has changed. I think this is the idea of moving 0 weight in the game. Your not adding wgt, only moving existing weight.

0kg is zero, nothing, no measurable amount. If you move 1kg or roughly 2.2lbs it might have a small effect. Your 40lb battery is roughly 18kg, so it would have a more noticeable effect when moved. Again its bad programming if changing the location of 0kg i.e. nothing affects the handling and performance of a car in game.

 

[llNovall]

0kg is zero, nothing, no measurable amount. If you move 1kg or roughly 2.2lbs it might have a small effect. Your 40lb battery is roughly 18kg, so it would have a more noticeable effect when moved. Again its bad programming if changing the location of 0kg i.e. nothing affects the handling and performance of a car in game.

Your missing the point. Your not adding an extra "battery"/weight to the car. Your theoretically moving the existing batttery/weight. No weight added, only moved to a different spot on the car. I could see your point if no overall weight was added to the car, meaning that if you input 18kg moved to the front, 18kg of existing weight is moved forward. However, thats not the case in game. 18kg added to the weight of the car is ballast (lead,shot, 2 cases of beer, whatever). Moving 0kg is the equivilent to moving existing onboard weight as explained above....a theoretical battery relocation.

 

[Lambob]

I have a theory why moving "0" around would cause handling differences, I think the PS3 is trying to divide by 0 someplace, thus creating black holes. (programming). if existing weight, then it is, but then label it as such, PD!

 

[Taz69]

OK so now im REAL confused. Praiano let me ask you this. You just said that your California that you tuned has like 47%/53% on the bias scale in GT5.. Its a car that is heavier in the rear than the front. And you are saying that moveing the slider with 0kg and +50 to the rear made the car handle better and the rear have more grip.. THATs strange so would moveing the slider to end that has LESS grip be what ya wanted to do. In other words you moved the slidder to the heavier end of the car and it handled better lol.. I dont doubt you I just think you might have uncovered another major PD screw up.. Why did moveing the slidder Praiano to the heavier end make the car turn better???? Someone answer that. Im starting to think that the programing is ALL screwed up... Where did PD ever say there was a moveable batterie I think the patch that someone was talking about just stopped showing the bias scale move or the pp change but sounds like thay let it slip through that it still affects the car... This is getting crazy look forward to hear back from all of ya..

 

[llNovall]

PD never said there was a movable battery. Its in theory. Anyone who has drag raced or road raced tries to relocate any existing on board weight in the area it is most needed. A Battery is just the easiest theoretical example to use. This I believe is the idea of the slider having an effect with 0 weight applied. Most times, ballast weight is added to reach a weight spec for class, but is also placed strategically to balance the car. Does anybody in this thread race for real or work on cars. Its not too complicated to understand the idea of moving "0 ADDED"kg( existing weight such as a battery) to achieve balance in the car. Ballast is adding weight to the existing onboard weight. This is how I believe the game reads it, and what seems to make a difference for me, real or percieved. Hope this helps.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Does anybody in this thread race for real or work on cars. Its not too complicated to understand the idea of moving "0 ADDED"kg( existing weight such as a battery) to achieve balance in the car.

I do. And the question that I don't think you (or others who believe in the moving weight thoery) is, "when you move zero ballast to + or - 50, why do the weight distribution percentages stay exactly the same?" In my real race car, when I move weight from around the car to the passenger's side floor, my corner weights change. When I moved my drivers seat closer to the center of the car, my side to side weights changed. The total vehicle weight is still at the minimum weight for the class rules, but the weight on each tire changes. So, if moving weight around the car changes handling in GT5, why don't the weight percentages change? Someone posted earlier that they thought it was moving less than 1% of weight. How effective can that be? I suggested that it may be another poorly programmed item in the physics model. That is if it exists at all. I am not ready to place a stake on either side of this yet. I need to see more testing with actual lap time data posted or do some testing myself before picking a side.

 

[Adrenaline]

I do. And the question that I don't think you (or others who believe in the moving weight thoery) is, "when you move zero ballast to + or - 50, why do the weight distribution percentages stay exactly the same?" In my real race car, when I move weight from around the car to the passenger's side floor, my corner weights change. When I moved my drivers seat closer to the center of the car, my side to side weights changed. The total vehicle weight is still at the minimum weight for the class rules, but the weight on each tire changes. So, if moving weight around the car changes handling in GT5, why don't the weight percentages change? Someone posted earlier that they thought it was moving less than 1% of weight. How effective can that be? I suggested that it may be another poorly programmed item in the physics model. That is if it exists at all. I am not ready to place a stake on either side of this yet. I need to see more testing with actual lap time data posted or do some testing myself before picking a side.

You're only further proving my point. A tiny change shows up when you have tje var on real scales because it's measuring in tenths.of a percent, side to side, front to back, cross weight etc. I was the one who mentioned the less than 1 percent previously. I used an average car weight of 3500lbs. Assume a 50/50 distribution, you would have to see a 70 lbd swing front to back to see a single the car hit 49/51. Technically the battery should be able to cover that 35lbs but only if it already had that weight processed at the front bumper, which it couldn't or we vouldn't go 50 each direction.

In reality we should probably ignore the battery theory and it would more accurately be defined by a driver seat movement of an average 150lbs that you can only move 4 inches or so forward or back. Think of it as each 10 on nallast movement is a half inch you're moving the driver seat. 2.5 inches forward or backward, 5 inches total movement. Enough to make a difference, but not enough to alter total vehicle distribution.

 

[praiano63]

OK so now im REAL confused. Praiano let me ask you this. You just said that your California that you tuned has like 47%/53% on the bias scale in GT5.. Its a car that is heavier in the rear than the front. And you are saying that moveing the slider with 0kg and +50 to the rear made the car handle better and the rear have more grip.. THATs strange so would moveing the slider to end that has LESS grip be what ya wanted to do. In other words you moved the slidder to the heavier end of the car and it handled better lol.. I dont doubt you I just think you might have uncovered another major PD screw up.. Why did moveing the slidder Praiano to the heavier end make the car turn better???? Someone answer that. Im starting to think that the programing is ALL screwed up... Where did PD ever say there was a moveable batterie I think the patch that someone was talking about just stopped showing the bias scale move or the pp change but sounds like thay let it slip through that it still affects the car... This is getting crazy look forward to hear back from all of ya..

Hello my friend, i count on people like Motor City Hami , to explain how the things are working in the real life, i don´t know almost anything about reals cars, just the basics. For my experience , anybody can test it, the car is here to repeat the way you want, online the difference is big, with a wheel force feed back set to 10, even after PD reduce FFB, you´ll feel the different driving sensation immediately. Not only the sensation ,but the different handling and the way the car move around the corner comparing to your ghost offline.

CALIFORNIA
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6714808#post6714808


><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

 

[Taz69]

Hello my friend, i count on people like Motor City Hami , to explain how the things are working in the real life, i don´t know almost anything about reals cars, just the basics. For my experience , anybody can test it, the car is here to repeat the way you want, online the difference is big, with a wheel force feed back set to 10, even after PD reduce FFB, you´ll feel the different driving sensation immediately. Not only the sensation ,but the different handling and the way the car move around the corner comparing to your ghost offline.

CALIFORNIA
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6714808#post6714808


><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

HINCE the problem lol. I too work on cars I live in NC and race dirt cars. On my scales I can change weight bias big time just in ride height changes which of coarse dont show up in GT5.. Reason im asking why is I think its a program glitch. In real life when tires slide takeing weight off of them helps. Looks from what you have found they programed it backwards and slideing the weight towrds the end thats slipping gives grip. So looks like 2 things wrong. Bias indicator dosent move when you slide the weigh up and back with 0kg added.. AND looks like they made it go to the wrong end to help so if the front is slipping move the slidder to the front with 0kg.. IF the rear is loosing grip move the slider to rear to help out.. But in "real life" adding weight to a street car on the end that is sliddeing will only make it worse. So I think GT5 has it backwards agin just like they do with the ride height.. lol.. And I asked this at first because I dont have a ton of time to test. But I thought I noticed when I moved it with 0kg it changed the car. But "real life said no way" I race almost always online and I go by Tazzz169 and instead of testing I thought it might be a simple answer. I see I was wrong. But looks like theres no one to blame but Sony lol.. Thanks for the input.. The only time this works is on a dirt car. If the right rear is sliddeing out you can change the weight bias to that tire and have the car load up more on that tire and push it in the dirt harder. But all roadrace cars the end that slip needs lightend up not made heavier.. So the game is off..

 

[Adrenaline]

I don't think its backwards. If its understeer move the weight to the rear, oversteer move it to the front. Overall distibution is irrelevant at that point.