basic driving realism issue...

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Here's something that I was thinking about the other day. Why does EVERY car get traction control? There are cars in the game that don't have traction control in real life. I can understand the programming issues that are inherent to something like that, but how hard would it be to program certain cars to have TCS and ASM at 0 and make it unchangeable until you buy an upgrade?

OK, I realize the upgrade doesn't exist, but if they can program in the ability to use rally tires or not, then this shouldn't be too much more... It would make you think twice about putting 400+ HP in a FF car, that's for sure.

(Sorry if this has been talked about previously, but I'm going to play my one and only newbie card.)
 
I'd guess it's a case of accessibility. The three TVRs in the game in real life wouldn't have Traction Control - TVR just don't believe in it. Now turn the Traction Control to 0 on the TVR Griffith and have a crack at driving it. Then try the Tuscan. Then try the Speed 12...

PD may care most about realism, but Sony care most about sales - thousands of copies being returned to the shop because 12-year old Jimmy is too much of a gimp to be able to drive 95% of the cars would be unacceptable to SCEJ/SCEA/SCEE. So the cars all have TCS and it can be turned off if you want it.

I'd love to know what their thinking behind ROM/Displacement is though. I'm no expert, but you can only add "Sports ROM" (aka "chipping") a car that actually HAS an engine management computer - which rules the Ford GT40 and Mini right out - yet every car in the game can have it (bar some pre-modified race cars, on which it is assumed). But displacement increase, which as far as I'm aware is relatively simple and can be carried out on anything with pistons, is only available on a couple of Skylines, a Civic and the Mini...

BTW Should be in the GT3 forum - unless it's a plea to Sony to keep it out of GT4... :D
 
I'll move it. Just on that, it's curious when buying car parts that TCS and ASM are there to buy, even though all cars have. It seems Polyphony must have set up like GT2, where you had to buy it, and then it was changed at the last minute.

If only it wasn't defaulted to on for new cars in GT mode...
 
I guess it was more of a plea to get the realism upped. In the case of the TVR's, they just don't have it. That's part of what makes them TVR's. They did think about Jimmy, as that's what Arcade mode is all about. But in simulation mode, you shouldn't be given that extra help. It's stuff like that that would make GT4 more "real". Another thing like that is Rally tires. You can go to the store right now and buy really tires for your car if you want, but in the game there are some cars that can't wear them. (I can't think of any off the top of my head right now.) Not that it would be a good idea, mind you. I'm just saying that in the realy world it's possible, and would it have killed PD to do?

P.S. Wow! My first post promptly answered by the most knowledgeable guy around! Rock!
 
and also every car that came with a LSD IRL should come with one... or two(AWD) instead of a open diff. by default. PD also needs to work on tire traction/physics it's too easy to do a burnout with TCS off. Maybe that's why TCS is on every car by default?
 
Now, now... Compliments will get you... Well, most places really :D

I quite like the ELSPA rating on the front cover - suitable for ages 3+. My 5 year old nephew-in-law couldn't drive the Skyline to save his life and had a big cry about it. Cheers, ELSPA...
 
I don't think it's too easy to do a burn out. It's very easy in real life. Using the TVR as an example, if you give a light, high-powered car 100% throttle at a stand still and drop the clutch you're not going to go anywhere fast. (Except to tirerack.com to get some new rubber.) Even in my personal FF car with 220 HP and no TCS, I get quite a bit of wheel spin when I release the clutch. But (another realism point here) at a standstill, the factory computer limits the revs to 5500 if the car isn't moving. Once I start moving it goes to the max.

Famine - Yeah, but go out back and have a Big-Wheel race, then we'll see who's crying...

http://www.sactoys.com/images/Empire+Toys/96100.jpg
 
Their favourite game is Crash Team Racing - which is bloody awesome in full 4-player mode. Unfortunately I'm big and mean, unlike their auntie who lets them win... I teach them how to cope with losing... :D

My niece-in-law gets her own back by jumping everywhere with one knee down - including onto any chair I'm occupying...
 
I'd like to see a more active VCD in the cars that have it. Such as the Skyline ALTESSA ET-S Pro. Where the computer judges how much torque can be sent to which wheel. I think the Evo has something like that too.
 
Ooooh yeah, they have it to. I read it in a Sport Compact Car once. The only thing is Skylines and possibly Evos have more RWD characteristics. However, when the grip of the back wheels become compromised, they send torque to the front. With the Audi, they have more FWD characterstics.
 
Originally posted by VG30DETT
I'd like to see a more active VCD in the cars that have it. Such as the Skyline ALTESSA ET-S Pro. Where the computer judges how much torque can be sent to which wheel. I think the Evo has something like that too.
Click to expand...
Yea, but in the game, I have found that the R-32 ans R-34 Skylines are MUCH more controllable with the VCD disabled.

By the same token, the street Lancers, can be downright bugger bears to drive without the VCD.
 
I am basing this on tv shows/mags... but i heard that the evo 8 is primarily a front drive car sending power to the rear wheels when needed, as in hard acceleration, and when the car begins to understeer in hard turning, i assume)... Again this is heresay from car and driver...
 
Originally posted by Famine
Their favourite game is Crash Team Racing - which is bloody awesome in full 4-player mode. Unfortunately I'm big and mean, unlike their auntie who lets them win... I teach them how to cope with losing... :D
Click to expand...
Been teaching the boys to cope with losing as well.
It does make it sweeter, to them, when they win. As they get older they value a legitamate win.
My eldest keeps trying to whip me at Cribbage. He usually gets one out of three when we play the best two out of three.:D
 
Originally posted by gt3freak_2001
Another thing that PD should think about are actually making the R34 have the four wheel steering system.
Click to expand...

What?

From what I gathered, I'm thinking your talking about all four wheels turning. The GTR 34 doesn't have this. I checked out a video I have of a 34, only the front two wheels turn.
 
My seven-year-old never wanted to play games, up until about a year ago. His friend plays them, so now he plays them.

My two-year-old loves to play games. He really likes racing games. He holds up GT3 saying, "Pink car! Pink car!" (Pitz) He wont let me help him either, he has to do it all by himself. He never complains when he crashes, he just laughs.

My seven-year-old is a different story. He yells, then cries when he doesn't play well. He's so dramatic. Good thing he doesn't do it all the time. He can have fun with it, especially when he is goofing off for his little brother.

I started off with Pong, and Atari, and these little boogers get PS2. I'm envious. Just think, when they're teens, they will be playing PS4.
 
Originally posted by VG30DETT
What?

From what I gathered, I'm thinking your talking about all four wheels turning. The GTR 34 doesn't have this. I checked out a video I have of a 34, only the front two wheels turn.
Click to expand...

Ah - yeah, actually it does. Has done since the R32. Most of the big mod GT-Rs have had it disabled, it's a bit notorious for giving trouble.
 
Originally posted by VG30DETT
What?

From what I gathered, I'm thinking your talking about all four wheels turning. The GTR 34 doesn't have this. I checked out a video I have of a 34, only the front two wheels turn.
Click to expand...

wot tha?

you mean the rear ones dont turn?
they get dragged?
how inefficient!!
 
Originally posted by VG30DETT
I checked out a video I have of a 34, only the front two wheels turn.
Click to expand...

HICAS really shouldn't be called an all-wheel steering system. Ask Nissan. It's High-Capacity Active Suspension, not steering.

At very low speeds, AWS systems turn the back wheels the opposite direction as the front wheels to reduce the turning circle. At high speeds, they turn the back wheels very slightly the same direction as the front wheels. The back tires are therefore pushing the back end to the inside, which makes it much more stable and also makes it understeer badly.

HICAS doesn't do any of the low-speed stuff. All it does is make the car understeer at high speed. It's strictly a stability system. HICAS never turns the rear wheels more than one degree, so it's more of a "toe adjustment" than steering.

BTW, HICAS is the system from 1985. Then there was HICAS II, which delays the turning of the rear wheels a little so it gets a better turn-in and doesn't understeer as badly. Skylines have Super HICAS, which steers the opposite direction as the front wheels when you start to turn at high speed, then snaps the other direction and steers the same direction as the front wheels. This is supposed to give you stable oversteer.

So, if you can't see HICAS working on a replay, you're just not paying attention closely enough to that 1-degree adjustment.
:)
 
These was an extensive discussion about the gto and the gtr and there 4ws systems, but nothing as informative as what you just mentioned was ever said bbm... good job

We were infact wondering about what the rear tires actually do... very intriguing stuff...
 
Actually, the most BASIC driving realism issue I have with the GT series is the steering input model.

To accomodate game pads, all the GT games ignore the consequence of full-lock turns. You can move the "wheel" from dead-center through its full range of motion left or right --in a fraction of a second, mind you-- and the car will remain controllable and stable. In fact, this is usually the fastest way through a turn. Watch any of the replays with the wheel showing and every single turn made is with the wheel either at dead center or full turn.

In real life, if you did this (assuming you could swing the wheel from center all the way to the stops quickly enough), the car will pretty much fly out of control. ANY CAR.

This compromise allows cars to be controllable with a digital game pad. It also brings the game within acceptable reach for ham-fisted 12 year olds who don't know any better because they can't drive in real life.

Unfortunately, it ignores a major factor in real-life racing --that a car's turning attitude is primarily impacted by which way the front wheels are pointing ... and that smooth inputs almost always results in faster laps.

I feel that future GT games should contain different code depending on which input device you have connected.


///M-Spec
 
Ahhhh, holy crap. I never realized that. I was expecting a large change in tire movement (something like in the Silverado commercials, or whatever truck has the same sort of thing), but if I stare REALLY, REALLY HARD, I can see that one degree turn. :D

From what it looked like, the GTR in the video was stock. It was just a guy in it telling about the wonders of it. There were some driftings and such, thats where I got the video from.

Huh... I feel so dumb.
 

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