Beater or Sleeper? COTW Forza 7 Week:END The Ultimate Sleeper, The Holden Sandman! Thanks Everyone!!

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Ran out of time, so I'll be living up to my signature for a change.
For an old race car it can still pack a punch even these days, though 50's tire tech lets it down a bit. At least we can fix that in Forza though. :D
Verdict: Sleeper

Edit: Drat, too late.
 
I've read this thread, start to finish, and I have to say, I'm impressed. I've missed this "loosened tie" approach to the weekly race series, something I haven't participated in since the Gran Turismo 4 WRS was relevant. I'll step in, for giggles, if nothing else, and more likely than not, to breathe life into this game and enjoy cars I perhaps would have skipped in the first place.

Sole question that I have: requests for weekly cars submitted via PM?


Other than that, see you guys in here. ;)



Edit: Decided to run after this post, a ten lap trial-by-fire effort on my rental van (perhaps a Fleet Elite, if you will..).

My driver's notes on it:
It's perhaps truly amazing how uselessly swift the American Market Minivan is. This is embarrassingly quick despite its heft, easily roasting the skins out of the gate, and even up to (and through a portion of) third gear, if you're ham-fisted enough with it. In fact, that's a bit of the Odyssey's theme; overwhelming the front tires with any input, if you try too hard. The brakes were fairly impressive, however. It's not a particular joy to drive, but that could be linked to my general "Meh" feelings about Long Beach. The van does have some legs, though, and can be built to suit (like my career mode Bisimoto clone..). I managed to scrape up a low 1'10 time out of the deal. (File to follow).

I give it an overall Neutral rating.
 
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I've read this thread, start to finish, and I have to say, I'm impressed. I've missed this "loosened tie" approach to the weekly race series, something I haven't participated in since the Gran Turismo 4 WRS was relevant. I'll step in, for giggles, if nothing else, and more likely than not, to breathe life into this game and enjoy cars I perhaps would have skipped in the first place.

Sole question that I have: requests for weekly cars submitted via PM?


Other than that, see you guys in here. ;)



Edit: Decided to run after this post, a ten lap trial-by-fire effort on my rental van (perhaps a Fleet Elite, if you will..).

My driver's notes on it:
It's perhaps truly amazing how uselessly swift the American Market Minivan is. This is embarrassingly quick despite its heft, easily roasting the skins out of the gate, and even up to (and through a portion of) third gear, if you're ham-fisted enough with it. In fact, that's a bit of the Odyssey's theme; overwhelming the front tires with any input, if you try too hard. The brakes were fairly impressive, however. It's not a particular joy to drive, but that could be linked to my general "Meh" feelings about Long Beach. The van does have some legs, though, and can be built to suit (like my career mode Bisimoto clone..). I managed to scrape up a low 1'10 time out of the deal. (File to follow).

I give it an overall Neutral rating.
Well that’s what this threads for, getting people into cars they otherwise wouldn’t have even considered. :P

In regards to your question, normally I’d reach out to others for what they want, but I’m also weighed up the possibility of making that a two way street so people can put forward requests and if they fit the criteria( car we haven’t driven before and the environment that hasn’t been used in the last 4 weeks.) then I’ll catalogue an order to put them all in. :)

Welcome to the thread and don’t forget about the ferrari 333SP. :cheers:
 
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So the 333SP, A former F1 engine retuned for endurance racing and dropped into a open top prototype which ended up getting 3 constructors championships and 5 Drivers Championships across its time with IMSA GT and the FIA Sportscar Championship.

I had reasonably expectations about its performance and they were met nicely. :P

Verdict: Neutral

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As for the Honda Oydessy, It’s got potential, needs a weight loss, shorter gearing and a limited slip diff, but the engine is good and can be taken quite far with upgrades.

Just a shame that it’s been blacklisted from the class hoppers (among many other cars too.) :banghead:

Verdict: Neutral
 
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For the Ferrari F333: a 1:10.355.
As a car on it's own, it's ok. Quite a stable car, nothing quite significant but no major flaws either. It's main problem is it's competition, it really has nothing compared to the likes of Sauber C9, Toyota Eagle or any other racers.
Verdict: A Neutral (generous though)

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For the Honda Oddysey: 1:09.679
With 8 seats, it makes for a very practical vehicle for all the family. In motorsport, it very suited to taking people to the track, but not racing. It's too heavy, understeers frequently and does feel sluggish at times. But it does have 10 gears (4 of which are actually practical though).
Verdict: Beater

[edit: helps if I add the text!]
 
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It pretty much lives up to it's legacy. Also the reason for this combo:


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"As for the Honda Oydessy, It’s got potential, needs a weight loss, shorter gearing and a limited slip diff, but the engine is good and can be taken quite far with upgrades.

Just a shame that it’s been blacklisted from the class hoppers (among many other cars too.) :banghead:

Verdict: Neutral"
 
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How long can a chassis stay competitive in prototype racing? Two years? Maybe three? Well, how about a decade. That's the time that passed between the 333 SP's first and last race; and for a while, it seemed as if it was destined to be longer still. If there's an unsung hero in the history of the Prancing Horse, you're looking at it.



In 1993, the turbocharged insanity of the 80s finally came to an end, as IMSA phased out the old GTP regulations in favor of the new open-top World Sports Car class. Ferrari sensed an opportunity and - prodded by old foxes like Giampiero Moretti of MOMO - developed an all-new car for its customers. From the get-go, the idea was to re-use the 65° V12 engine that had powered the 642 GP car in the 1992 F1 season. There was, however, a small problem with this plan: the WSC rules mandated the use of a production engine. The "Tipo 037" hardly qualified. But as it happened, Ferrari was also creating a new supercar to celebrate their 50th anniversary: and so, the 3.5-litre V12 was bored to 4.7 litres for the F50 that was to debut in 1995, and then de-stroked to 3,997cc for the IMSA prototype. The motor, which produced over 600 horsepower and redlined at 13,000 rpm, was then mated to a chassis developed by Dallara, who made good use of the lessons learned in developing the Lancia LC2 Group C prototype and produced a fairly conventional, but very well-thought machine.



And so, in 1994 Ferrari returned to sportscar racing after a 20 years hiatus with a tremendously competitive package, scoring a win in its debut race. In the following years the 333 SP would become the car to beat, and despite IMSA's frantic attempts to limit its performance it would go on to achieve a row of victories in the 6 and 12 hours races that would last until 1998, and was only interrupted by the involvment of BMW and Audi in the nascent ALMS series. In that same year, a lone car entered in the Le Mans 24 hours by Doyle-Risi Racing would bring to Maranello the first class victory in the famous French race in more than 30 years - a fitting end to the best part of a glorious career, that would see the barchetta establish itself as one of the winningest cars of its kind, with 56 1st place finishes. Still, some of the cars that had been racing in Europe would soldier on - more often than not, with Judd V10 engines replacing the discontinued V12 - until 2003, when a 333 SP last appeared at the Monza 500 KM race, retiring, yes, but not before setting the fastest lap.



Of course, cars that are all pursuing the same goal of ultimate on-track performance will often have very similar handling characteristics, and it's hard to distinguish the behavior and personality of the 333 SP from those of its contemporary competitors. However, there is a certain sure-footedness and responsiveness, than even more modern LMP1s like the BMW V12 LMR seem to lack. Driving it around Road Atlanta - the track where it collected its maiden victory - I had to admit that it was far more likely that the car overwhelmed me with its speed, than the other way around. Still - this is one of those cars that clearly mean business, and even with spaceship-like performance, it's hard to call it a sleeper.

Pros: the ultimate closed-wheel Ferrari;
Cons: MY BRAIN HURTS;

Laptime (Road Atlanta, Full Circuit): 01:10.656

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Ok so with another week down, let’s tott up the scores for the Ferrari.

@Vic Reign93 1:09.152
@Drex124 1:09.158
@pompeypigeon 1:10.355
@ClydeYellow 1:10.656
@VICGT1970 1:10.826
@Populuxe Cowboy 1:14.312
@Obelisk 1:14.795

And for the Oydessy..

@VICGT1970 1:08.509
@Drex124 AND @Vic Reign93 1:08.774 :eek:
@pompeypigeon 1:09.679
@Jetboy. 1:10.272
@Populuxe Cowboy 1:14.447

So Drex was 6 thousandths off me at Road Atlanta and then ran an identical lap as me at Long Beach, dont worry Drex I’m ok with sharing second place(although I could say I get 2nd because I did less laps, but I won’t do that. :lol:)

Great effort from everyone for last week. 👍

Before I announce this weeks car, I’m announcing that from here on in that I’m open to requests so if there’s a particular car/track combo you want, shoot me a PM and I’ll catalog it with other requests, Also all the DLC cars that weren’t picked before can now be asked for alongside a car that came with the game. 👍

Of course if any more car packs or exapansions(more than likely) show up I still get first dibs on which DLC we drive first. :D

This weeks car was quite the rebel when it came out over here, to such an extent that some people were calling for it to be banned, it also didn’t help that one of these cars fell into the wrong hands and was damn near uncatchable by police.

Of course it could only be...

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The 1990 Vauxhall Lotus Carlton!!!

We drove this car way back on GT6’s COTW and the bonus round was me in the Carlton against BMW M4 and Nissan Skyline Pace(police)Cars and I ended up surviving the 4 laps we ran back then. :P

Here’s a link to the story on that stolen Carlton. https://www.google.com/amp/s/jalopn...dan-terrorized-the-uk-in-a-vio-1575033146/amp

Lotus took a standard 3.0 litre Vauxhall Carlton, enlarged the engine up to 3.6 litres, added two Garrett turbos, took a 6 speed manual out of a similar vintage ZR1 Corvette and a differential out of a V8 Holden Commodore.

The engine made 379hp and 419ft-lbs of torque which gave the Carlton a top speed well over 170mph, maybe even touching 180mph, making it the fastest 4 door saloon car in the world at the time and Vauxhall’s fastest car for a very long time. :eek:

Only had one colour option of Imperial Green and less than 1000 cars were produced, making it quite a rarity these days. :drool:

In essence, It became a rebel and quite a loveable one too.

You’ll be shaking down the Carlton and sharping your getaway skills this week at the Test Track Airfield, with a choice of 2 routes to take, your decision making has to be as quick as your driving if you want the best time here. :P

Best of luck and watch out for any hidden rozzers wanting to catch a Carlton. :D
 
Can someone explain to me why taking the outside route on T1-T2 invalidates the lap?

Edit: WHY is there a freaking off-track section right at the exit of T1? God, if they really wanted us to use the outside lane there, that freaking invalid lap area wouldn't be there.
 
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Can someone explain to me why taking the outside route on T1-T2 invalidates the lap?

Edit: WHY is there a freaking off-track section right at the exit of T1? God, if they really wanted us to use the outside lane there, that freaking invalid lap area wouldn't be there.
I noticed that, too, but my best lap was still done on that outside route. The trigger appears to be a concrete expansion strip just before you go through that gate. It triggered there about 50% of the time. I'm not sure, but I think if the car gets airborne even a little, it triggers a dirty lap, but if it stays on the pavement, it's good.
 
It’s a similar problem the chicane has at the end of Prague, any air over the kerbs dirties the lap, I’ve ran in to it as far back as FM5. :crazy:

You might get a lucky run through it or you won’t, a softer suspension may increase your odds if you were hotlapping, but (A) you’re compromising the car for the rest of the track and (B) it’s no sure fire cure either as I’m pretty sure I’ve tripped it while driving a Ram Runner around the Airfield.
 
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Quite enjoyed driving the Carlton as one could expect, quick enough to set a fast lap, comfortable enough to absorb heavy landings without unsettling the car and still fun to hoon about while going around again to start another attempt at a clean lap. :P

I’ve found that cutting close to the left side of the runway landing lights allows you take the left route while heavily reducing the odds of your lap being dirtied, granted it’s a tigher line than you expect, but it works. ;)👍

So the Carlton is a Sleeper or as us Brits call them “Q-Cars”, it’s a term derived from the Q-Ships used by the Royal Navy.(The Sleeper term is taken after sleeper agents, the more you know.:D)

Many people often credit the Lotus Carlton/Omega as the car that started the production Q-Car trend in Europe, although the E34 BMW M5 could potentially have a case for that claim itself IMO. :)

Verdict: Sleeper 👍
 
Before I go another week without contributing:

The Carlton was fantastic! Obviously the weight didn't do it any favors, but I didn't have much trouble outside of learning braking points (and my breaking point with the track). Best lap I managed was about a 1:08.6, but I'd have to recover the recording as it mysteriously disappeared in the middle of the night (supposedly with some video thief yelling about invalid laps).

I would give it a sleeper rating, but we all know it's a sleeper. Can't come wide with me when I know what you are, Vauxhall Carlton.

Neutral.
 
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And here’s your weekly reminder that you have 24hrs to get your times posted before the event ends. ;)
 
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My attempt: a 1:08.390

After realising this car was under Vauxhall and not Lotus, I got a few good laps in. Whilst this track takes advantage of the speed, turning this can be an issue and it's main downfall would be technical tracks. Once the weight and decent suspension is fitted, this car would be good (which it is!).

I rate this a sleeper.
 
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(1:07.544)

Off track shenanigans made this too much of a pain...
At least the car was decent, though it likes to push wide at in high speed corners.

Definite Sleeper
 
So here’s where we all stack up on the getaway drivers leaderboard this week. :D

@Vic Reign93 1:05.486
@Drex124 1:07.544
@pompeypigeon 1:08.391
@VICGT1970 1:08.524
@Obelisk 1:08.591
@Populuxe Cowboy 1:08.759

Quite close in the 1:08 club with less than 4 tenths separating the 4 drivers, great driving all. 👍

So to this weeks winner...

Congratulations @Obelisk!!!

It’s been awhile since the mighty prism had his last pick and man did he pick a doozy of a car for us.

He chose...

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The 1966 Chaparral #66 Chaparral Cars 2E!!!

We’re diving into Jim Hall’s aerodynamic madhouse for this week with his favourite huge active winged Can-Am racer. :sly:

When I say aerodynamic madhouse, That’s no exaggeration, one only needs to look to the mighty 2H for such an example or the fan assisted 2J, if it involved aerodynamic extremes and theoretical lap time improvements, Jim was on it like a car bonnet. :lol:

Powered by a aluminium 5.3 Chevy V8 making 475hp and 425 ft-lbs of torque, the 2E’s 3 speed automatic transaxle was used harness the power.

Of course it’s standout point was the aerodynamics with the tall wing being the centrepiece, a centerpiece that was adjustable by the driver using a 3rd pedal that normally would be the clutch pedal.


When pressed, the wing flattens out as well as closing the nose ducting upfront to improve straight line speed, like a ancestor to what DRS is today, albeit the 2E could use it anytime the driver liked. :P

While it only won one race due to teething issues and reliablity, it won the 1966 race at Laguna Seca with Phil Hill driving (no relation to Graham or Damon Hill, but still a legendary driver.👍).

I’ve probably understated what the 2E is, but all of the Chapparrals are worth reading up on. :cheers:

So where we headed you might be asking, to the long punishing track that is Circuit De La Sarthe, not the bugatti or old mulsanne layout, the full circuit layout.

I did a quick test run and the 2E tops out at 175mph(never intended to go to Le Mans, but that’s what games allow us to do. :D) so banging the rev limiter will happen, only hit it twice before each chicane so bear that in mind.

Aside from that, best of luck and have fun. 👍
 
Adding to this - I am a huge Chaparral nerd and could talk anyone's ear off to this, so my review for this is going to end up equal parts informative and entertaining.

Looking forward to going home today. :cheers:

Edit: Did not get to drive. will try to ASAP
 
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I drove ten laps of Le Mans last night. Only two of them were clean. The car is stuck bouncing off the rev limiter for about 50% of each lap, so I try to make up time in the other 50%, and that's where the mistakes get made. It's kind of frustrating.
 
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Slightly later than expected as I’ve been keeping an eye on two of my good COTW friends who are as I type this, running in New Zealand’s first ever full 24hr Lemons endurance race. :D

So please check out the thread for updates on progress in the motorsport sub forum, More COTW/GTP support, the merrier. :cheers:

As for the 2E, I found that the slightest blips on the throttle at around 172-3 mph is effective to ensure you don’t hit the rev limiter.

First gear is very long as it’ll do over 100 mph, but given the power, lack of weight and the size of the rear tyres, it actually still pulls very well and it helps you maintain traction coming out the turns. 👍

Stops real well too and while there’s a hint of initial understeer on turn in, as soon as you get the front tyres to bite it’ll turn quite nicely.

While it only won one race in reality, it’s got potential to win a whole lot more in Forza. :P

Verdict: Sleeper 👍
 
The Almighty Wing - A Forgotten Innovator?

Hello, everyone! Welcome to my COTW review, where I finally have energy and motive to talk about something. This week's entry is a testament to human ingenuity and rule-bending in an era before downforce.

I present to you, the origin of the almighty wing: The 1966 Chaparral 2E.
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A Chaparral 2E next to a Chaparral 2C.

So what's the deal with this thing? And why is it so important?

A little of its history will help to make sense of things. And when we talk about any Chaparral, we talk about all of them up to that point because the company's entire existence was sheer genius and impressive.

Chaparral Cars didn't start until 1963, but the seeds of greatness were planted in 1957. At the time, a company called Troutman and Barnes was producing a small race car called the Chaparral - Jim Hall and Hap Sharp purchased two copies of the Chaparral and started racing.
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1961-1963 Chaparral 1 (Group P)

Jim and Hap decided to start making their own cars in the opening of the 1960s, and asked Troutman and Barnes for the permissions/right to the Chaparral name - and thus Chaparral Cars was born in 1963. The original Troutman and Barnes Chaparrals were retroactively named the Chaparral 1 (which is why all of the rest of the Chaparrals had the 2 + letter designation - the more you know).

The first of the second generation Chaparrals was, obviously, the 2A, followed by the B and C (derivatives of the 2A that improved on it), and then the 2D (closed cockpit version of the 2C - GT fans know this one), 2E, 2F (closed cockpit version of the 2E), 2G (a bonkers-looking continuation of the 2E), 2H (the "white whale"), a mysterious 2I that never saw the light of day, and the notorious 2J vacuum cleaner race car. They retired from racing after the 2J was banned, at least for a few years. Chaparral's final push for fame was an Indy car called the 2K that won the Indy 500 and the CART championship in 1980.

So, a varied history with a unique assortment of race cars. But why is the 2E in particular so important?

I can sum this up in one sentence: The 2E was the first racing car to implement aerodynamic theories.

Built on an aluminum 2C chassis, the 2E was a startling car to look at compared to its peers. It was a culmination of Jim Hall's aerodynamic theories, and its mere introduction forever rocked the racing world's foundations. It featured an early form of the racing wing that was attached to a pedal - it didn't need a clutch due to its unique (semi-)automatic transmission so the space was taken up by the wing's party trick.

At any point in the race, the driver of the 2E could engage the pedal and the fun began. The wing flattened out by raising the leading edge of the wing, and small ducts in the nose of the car closed up to improve the car's straight line aerodynamics. It would remain engaged until the brakes were pressed, at which moment the wing and ducts reverted back to their normal positions.

The almighty wing was also firmly attached to the car's suspension, giving it an edge in traction over its peers. Suffice it to say, this didn't last long as an innovation as the competitors tried to copy the idea (with questionable execution) and it was banned by the governing body.

Formula 1 would adopt racing wings and other aspects of Jim Hall's theories and the rest is history - just look at any racing series and you'll see a wing on the car. I think it's safe to say that Jim Hall was onto something at the time, and we take his innovation for granted.

And some 47 years later, the 2E finally has a chance to shine in the spotlight once again. It was introduced as a DLC in Forza Motorsport 5 and has been a staple of the classic race car list ever since.

So how is it in the game?
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Unfortunately, the full effect of the car's aerodynamic behavior was never modeled in the game. The wing moves up and down at about 100 MPH and that's about it for the simulation of the car's defining feature.

That gripe aside, the 2E is one hell of a car to drive. It only has three gears, with Gear 1 redlining at nearly 120 MPH. You'd think a first gear that long would bog the car down, but...Nope. It takes off and just keeps hauling from 0-120, and it does it without breaking a sweat. Second gear redlines at about 135 and third redlines at the car's mechanically-limited top speed of 174 MPH. I suspect this car could push 186 MPH (300 km/h) with no sweat, or even reach for 200. For a small car with a maximum of 475 HP off its small Chevy V8, this is awfully impressive.

The tires do show their age, and will break loose if you don't treat the car with the respect it demands in the corner. This is a small tradeoff for this car's massive acceleration, though. At the hairpin at the end of the Mulsanne, the 2E went from 47 MPH at the apex to just short of 90 MPH at the end of the curbstones on the left - and that's a ridiculously tiny gap for 42 MPH to be found in. It does it anyways due to the car's extreme diet - it weighs less than 2000 pounds. The real world car tipped the scaled at a meager 1,560 pounds.

Driving it was fantastic - the car had great handling for a 52 year old race car, and it certainly kept me on my toes. I had to spend four laps dialing in my inputs because of how brutal this car is to drive at first - but once I got the hang of it, it was a corner-carving monster that ate corner exits like nothing else in the Prototype tier.

It is one of the cars that truly deserves a Sleeper rating, as it is decidedly not a car to scoff at in any lobbies.

So, the Chaparral 2E.

Historic innovation.

Almighty wing.

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Forgotten no more.

Thanks for reading.

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