Beginner Drift Cars

[nightkid86]

I own a 240sx and find myself drifting in the rain when I don't want to...so I'm pretty sure they will drift. You could get a really really nice s13 for around 2 grand, and if you crash it, no biggie. You could also get a beater s13 for like 500 and weld the diff

 

[sicbeing]

s13? I'm not familiar.

 

[194GVan]

(EGb16 or something)

EG is the chassis code here, b16 is the motor (1.6L) Im just gonna guess but you had a hatchback? I think thats what the EG is for.

s13? I'm not familiar.

an older 240sx/180sx/Silvia, like early 90's. S14 is mid-late 90's, and S15 is the current silvia sold in Japan only. Check out google images for some pics Or all 3 are in GT3 and GT4

 

[sicbeing]

I did try to look for silvia on google images, i got a bunch of pictures of different girls

No, about the EG I may be wrong on the chasis code, but I had a 4door civic LX Sedan. 94. Still have it too.

 

[toyomatt84]

No it wasn't.

Then what was genius?

No it isn't.

How so?

Big deal. Some guy with an overhyped title with an overhyped car in a sport that's an overglorified trend. It's not that I don't know, it's that I don't care.

That sounds like a personal problem, and frankly I don't care about you.

Consider this, the car itself costs more than triple what it should. Then you have what? Something that's worthless. You have to then add parts, which cost triple what they should thanks to the drift fad, and about $15,000 later you have something that you could've achieved easier, faster, and cheaper with a better car to start with.

I've drifted completely barebone stock Corollas before. I believe the total cost of the car was around $3,200 USD. It was an AE86 with a stock LSD. I think that's about $11,800 shy of what you're expecting.

 

[sicbeing]

I played around with the Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-Apex (AE86) in GT4 a bit today. At first I really didn't like it (I just started drifting this week in GT4) compared to my 1996 240SX, but after about 30 or 40 laps in Tsukuba, I got the hang of it more and it handled really well atfer I got used to it. It's extremly lightweight. At first it was hard to swing it around, but after setting the brake controller more to the rear, I was able to let off some of the tension on the front tires and slide more so into the turns with my back end out. I had a really fun time.

If I didn't have to work tomorrow I'd probably sit there all night and drift at Tsukuba.

I'll try a few other cars tomorrow, I bought every 80's and 90's RWD car I found at the two Used Lots and the Historic lot. 👍

(I know GT4 isn't exactly like real life, but it's close enough and the easiest way to actually "test drive" these cars... I know, I'm a nerd).

 

[Dorifto]

S14's are great balanced drift machines. My S13 slides a lot too.

 

[Jay]

and S15 is the current silvia sold in Japan only.

Incorrect, we (Australia) got Turbo S15's Silvias badged as 200sx.

 

[daggoth]

The AE86 is a very good handling car.

Ghost C
Americans don't like to see Europeans label their cars as hungry for fuel, horrible to drive, big displacement - no power and only good in a straight line. But you promptly label 99% of Japanese cars as "Econoboxes" wich is something that I don't like and I'm sure Japanese people don't like also.

The AE86 was, and still is in the right hands, a very fast and fun car to drive. Not a beast of a performer of course, but it has 50/50 weight distribuiton, 4 brake discs and (some) came with lsd. Proof is that it is still used in drifting races and exhibitions and, can put up some impressive moves.

What was that all about double digits??? The Standard 4A-GE engine produces 124hp. That's with 1600cc of displacement and it was designed in 1984. Besides you can easily convert it to 20v versions, or install a factory Toyota Supercharger. That will increase power to 170hp. Still not a brutal strength but more than enough to drift a 940kg car.

I agree that because of Initial D the car is overpriced, but not overrated. I have seen a Best Motoring video in wich a Skyline R34 loses to an AE86 in a tight twisty mountain course. As you can see Intial D isn't that far-off!!!

sicbeing
The codes in Toyota models is very simple. Let's take a look at this particular case:
AE86

The first letter: A -> Reference to the family of engines this car uses; 4A-GE
The second letter: E -> Reference to the family chassis/model; E stand for Corolla
The numbers specify the generation of the car.

Let's look at another well-known Toyota. The MKIV Twin-Turbo Supra

JZA80
The firsts letters: JZ -> Reference to the family of engines this car uses; 2JZ-GTE
The second letter: A -> Reference to the family chassis/model; A stand for Supra and also older Celicas if I'm not mistaken
The numbers specify the generation of the car.

Simple no?

 

[sicbeing]

Yea Daggoth.. simple

 

[Jay]

Just to add some extra detail to what daggoth has explained, for anyone interested

The numbers specify the generation of the car.

The numbers for example 86 is really 8 and 6, they are seperate. The first number is the generation (8th corolla in AE86's example) and the second number is the trim level (or factory package) the car was sold in. Example of that: Real AE86's have a 4A-GE engine with LSD, rear disc brakes etc, but AE85 had the 3A-U with rear drum brakes and without LSD and other details.

Other example like some Toyotas may go past single digit generation like the Toyota Chaser (JZX100 for an example)

JZ = JZ family of engine
X = Toyota Chaser model
10= 10th generation
0 = thats the number given to the trim level (often will just always be 0 but in some cases like the Corolla's will change)

 

[daggoth]

👍

 

[194GVan]

Incorrect, we (Australia) got Turbo S15's Silvias badged as 200sx.

Yes, poor choice of words on my part, I meant that you can't get them in the United States

 

[sicbeing]

Yea, us here in the USA refer to any car that we dont have as "japan only" lol.

 

[Jay]

Yea, us here in the USA refer to any car that we dont have as "japan only" lol.

Ok...............

 

[sicbeing]

Ok...............

It was a joke , more a kind of a stereotype to how we think over here.

 

[Ghost C]

The AE86 is a very good handling car.

Ghost C
Americans don't like to see Europeans label their cars as hungry for fuel, horrible to drive, big displacement - no power and only good in a straight line. But you promptly label 99% of Japanese cars as "Econoboxes" wich is something that I don't like and I'm sure Japanese people don't like also.

Where? Because I said one car wasn't god's gift to RWD like people think, so I automatically label 99% of cars as economy cars? I like your logic.

The AE86 was, and still is in the right hands, a very fast and fun car to drive. Not a beast of a performer of course, but it has 50/50 weight distribuiton, 4 brake discs and (some) came with lsd. Proof is that it is still used in drifting races and exhibitions and, can put up some impressive moves.

Every time I see them against any other car they're getting stomped all over.

What was that all about double digits??? The Standard 4A-GE engine produces 124hp. That's with 1600cc of displacement and it was designed in 1984.

I said "double digit wheel horsepower numbers" - Which is what it makes.

Besides you can easily convert it to 20v versions, or install a factory Toyota Supercharger. That will increase power to 170hp. Still not a brutal strength but more than enough to drift a 940kg car.

Hot damn! 170hp after a supercharger or an engine swap?! Where do I sign? That's absolutely amazing!

I agree that because of Initial D the car is overpriced, but not overrated. I have seen a Best Motoring video in wich a Skyline R34 loses to an AE86 in a tight twisty mountain course. As you can see Intial D isn't that far-off!!!

I've demoralized S2000 owners left and right in a straight line. A car that puts out 40 more horsepower, weighs less, has a manual transmission, and is RWD. Why? Because the drivers couldn't drive. Does that mean my car is somehow legitimately a better sports car? No.

I'm done arguing this point, and I'll end it on this note - I'd drift a Civic before I drifted a Trueno.

 

[194GVan]

why do that when you could drift your caddy

 

[daggoth]

Where? Because I said one car wasn't god's gift to RWD like people think, so I automatically label 99% of cars as economy cars? I like your logic.

Ghost C wrote: twenty year old economy car is just stupid

Every time I see them against any other car they're getting stomped all over.

I can show you videos of that not happening.

I said "double digit wheel horsepower numbers" - Which is what it makes.

My mistake there, didn't notice you wrote wheels.

Hot damn! 170hp after a supercharger or an engine swap?! Where do I sign? That's absolutely amazing!

Not an engine swap, the engine is still the same, only with 20 valves.
So, 170hp from a 1.6l isn't good?? okay....

I've demoralized S2000 owners left and right in a straight line. A car that puts out 40 more horsepower, weighs less, has a manual transmission, and is RWD. Why? Because the drivers couldn't drive. Does that mean my car is somehow legitimately a better sports car? No.

They could not beat you in a more powerfull car on a straight line? Wow, really good drivers indeed. Besides, that has nothing to do with this since drifting is never a straight line.
In the Best Motoring show the cars are driven by racing drivers, they may have different level of skill but a racing driver can easily reach the performance limit of a normal road car. That means it's pointless wich one is the better driver.

I'm done arguing this point, and I'll end it on this note - I'd drift a Civic before I drifted a Trueno.

So, you're saying that a FWD is better to drift than a RWD? I like your logic.

I'm also done arguing, maybe someday you'll have the pleasure of driving one and then you can see that they are not that bad

 

[toyomatt84]

daggoth it's pointless to try and talk sense with him. If you were to take a quick peek at his CarDomain and Online Showoff (they're in his signature) then you'd understand. He's painted engine bay parts on his '91 Cadillac bright blue, and added some knock-off pedals and what looks like a knock-off Automatic shift handle. They are vinyl fakes of Carbon Fiber.


PS. I'd like to see a vid of you beating an S2000, Ghost C., because I hardly believe you could beat a stock CRX with that massive boat of a vehicle you drive.

 

[Ghost C]

daggoth it's pointless to try and talk sense with him. If you were to take a quick peek at his CarDomain and Online Showoff (they're in his signature) then you'd understand.

Exactly what would he understand?

He's painted engine bay parts on his '91 Cadillac bright blue,

And?

and added some knock-off pedals

Knockoffs, eh? Is that what they look like? I believe you may be incorrect.

and what looks like a knock-off Automatic shift handle. They are vinyl fakes of Carbon Fiber.

So tell me something. I own Evoluzione Engineering - It's my company. So let's say that I put vinyl fake carbon fiber on there. That would mean it was work done by Evoluzione Engineering, right? So how, even if by your logic of it's a vinyl fake (it's not), would it be a knockoff? By virtue of myself having ANYTHING to do with the creation of it, it means it's a product of Evoluzione Engineering.

PS. I'd like to see a vid of you beating an S2000, Ghost C., because I hardly believe you could beat a stock CRX with that massive boat of a vehicle you drive.

Oh ouch, that hurt.

You've already resorted to attempting to insult me personally. I find that amusing. If you want to continue this further, continue it in a PM, I'm not going to reply to further personal attacks and drag this thread off topic even more.

 

[toyomatt84]

You've been PM'd.

 

[YSSMAN]

Ok boys, settle down...

If we are going to talk about American cars vs Japanese cars in drifting, atleast have some major proof to back everything up...

In a recent issue of SPEED Magazine (I hate to say that I have read it), they attempted to find the best factory drift car available.

Cars Included:
- Dodge Viper SRT-10
- Acura NSX
- Mazda MX5
- Porsche 911
- Mustang GT
- Pontiac GTO
- BMW M3 Competition Package
- Nismo 350Z S-Tune

Rank (as I can remember it, it may be off)
1) BMW M3 Competition Package
2) Pontiac GTO
3) Porsche 911
4) Nismo 350Z S-Tune
5) Mustang GT
6) Mazda MX5
7) Dodge Viper SRT-10
8) Acura NSX

All of the cars were tested by Rhys Millen and the "Flyin' Hawaiian" guy, and individually rated by the drivers, and then had their scores averaged to set the places.

Heres a quick rundown of what they said about the cars:
1) M3: It felt like they "knew" the car, and the overall balance is what gave it the win.

2) GTO: Obviously it is Rhy's car, but the Hawaiian guy said that it was comfortable and had the power it needed to get the job done.

3) 911: It was a surprise, they said. It also was very well balanced, and liked to hang it's tail out. But it required a bit more work than the GTO and M3.

4) 350Z: Another surprise as 350Zs often do not do well in Formula D... The torque helped a lot, and the overall balance was much better than a stocker.

5) Mustang GT: Better than they had expected, they understand why it has become so popular. But it's biggest problem was the lack of power... Not enough to keep the wheels spinning the whole time.

6) MX5: Light and agile, but way down on power. Could be a winner if it had an extra 100 horsepower.

7) Viper SRT-10: It didnt do as well because it didnt want to drift. The car is obviously built for track racing, and it is evident in the fact the car always wants to straighten out... Couple that with an unpredictable LSD, it just was not what they expected it to be.

8) NSX: It was almost over from the start. The car had too much weight in all the wrong places when begining a drift that it just could not stay sideways. Like the Viper, it was meant to be a track car, not a drift car.

 

[sicbeing]

I figured the NSX would be kind of unbalanced, hard to get sideways, but once it gets sideways it'd be almost impossible to keep it sideways without spinning out or straightening out.

I'm surprised the GTO and GT were higher on the list than I thought. I figured the big engines in the front end as well as being heavy cars would make it bad drift cars (always thought of the GT, GTO, etc, as more drag and track cars).

The 911 I figured would be an easy drift, RR I would imagine makes it simple to swing around , and with it's power and handleing I'm sure it'd be great, but it's so expensive you don't really associate Porche's or etc with drifting because it's mostly all 80's-90's japaneise cars.

I figured the Z would have beaten the GTO, and at least be in the top 3, but hey, I'm not the tester.

M3 is number 1. Not bad, makes me look at BMW with more style.

Miata, couldn't agree more, with more power I'm sure it'd be much higher in the rank.

Viper, why would you even try to drift that?

I'm surprised they didn't try any AWD cars. I would have loved to see STi or Audi S4 on that list.

 

[YSSMAN]

They had the Viper running because Dodge (and the Mopar performance group) runns a SRT-10 Copetition Coupe in the D1 Drift series...

The GTO was ranked that high because it has enough power (400BHP, 400 lb/ft torque) and a good ammount of ballance to get it to bring the back end around and keep it sliding... Not to deminish the GTO's handeling, but it is as good as the former R34 Skyline GTR at a respectable .88g on the skidpad...

I would assume the AWD cars werent included because there arent any being ran at the D1 events. Most of them are RWD...

 

[Layla's Keeper]

I've driven AE86's before, and while they're neat and nimble little cars that can be fun to throw around because of their lightweight and RWD, they are difficult cars to drift successfully stock.

The point has been made that they are a low power car. This is true, and while big power isn't a necessity in drifting, it doesn't hurt either. However, the bigger problems with AE86's are their slow steering, tiny tires, and short wheelbase. They have very little lateral grip and are easy cars to spin if you overcome the limited steering angle available with the stock rack and steering arms.

In concert with this, the AE86 has a very narrow powerband, meaning that you can't balance the car in the meat of the engine's torque and let the wheelbase hold you stable in a sweeping drift (perfect examples of this are Ueno's Soarer and Millen's GTO). Instead, you'll be banging the engine off the rev limiter, trying to keep the rear tires lit, until you go too far with the angle and are faced with two choices.

1: Stay in the throttle and spin oversteer.
or
2: Let out of the throttle, regain grip at the rear end, and understeer into a spin.

Even Tsuchiya in the Drift Bible points out that the AE86 needs to stay at peak power to drift well, and dropping even a few revs causes understeer. It's a difficult car. A fun one, and one (when the Twin Cam 1600cc four is on deck) that can be modified into a fairly respectable machine, but still difficult.