3 1/2 and 5 1/2, respectivlyMessiahSo what are they going to call the 5 door (touring) versions of the 3 and 5 series?![]()
3 1/2 and 5 1/2, respectivlyMessiahSo what are they going to call the 5 door (touring) versions of the 3 and 5 series?![]()
Chris CriswellI don't see how an M3 is a family car, that's quite funny
It's definitely a sports/performance/semi-luxury car. Trust me, I drive them all/every day.
spazzyfry123The 2000 Ford Mustang Cobra "R" is in the game. It is under the used car lot "II". But if the realism in the game is just as in real life, the M3 would win hands down against the 'Stang. I have driven both an M3 and a 2002 Mustang GT (my car) and well...on a course such as that, the M3 just outperforms in the handling.
Chris CriswellThe Mustang GT and Mustang Cobra R are way different in my experiences...Those Brembo brakes sure as hell work good...
spazzyfry123The 2000 Ford Mustang Cobra "R" is in the game. It is under the used car lot "II". But if the realism in the game is just as in real life, the M3 would win hands down against the 'Stang. I have driven both an M3 and a 2002 Mustang GT (my car) and well...on a course such as that, the M3 just outperforms in the handling.
Chris CriswellI wonder if the M4 and M6 will be on GT5.
By the way, (possible insider information I have)
BMW is totally renaming/revamping the "series".
The 3 Series will be now split into 3 and 4 Series, Odd numbers will have 4 doors, even numbers will have 2 doors. For example, the 4 door 3 series will stay that way, but the 2 door (330ci/325ci) will now be 4 Series, so the name should be similar to 430ci? I don't know if they will include the ci bit, but the new M3 will have a V8 engine, and will be renamed to the M4. I've known about this since just last year but it's pretty interesting and sometimes confusing.
As you know they already have started with the whole Odd/Even thing, the 5 series has 4 doors, along with the 7 series. And the 6 series has 2 doors. I can't wait until the new M6 is made, might be a while but it will be a hell of a sports car.
kragbeesWhat's wrong in comparing a 2004 M3 to a 2002 NSX ???
They are both coupes, and should be seen as the same class ? I think it's a good comparison !
skicrushYou know, in '97 and '98 BMW made Sedan M3's, so it wouldn't really be THAT weird.
The C6 is the new corvette (6th gen). The C5 Z06 and C5R (Corvette Race car) are in GT4, the C6 and C6 Z06 are not (the C6 Z06 is the 500+ horse monster). And the new Corvette race car is the C6R. The new Z06 due out this fall has a better power/weight than the Ford GT, is na (giving it a flatter torque curve and opening the door WIDE open for tuners), and has been tamed DOWN to 500 horses to avoid a gas guzzler tax in the US. And it's speculated to cost between $60k and $70k. And if a CHEVY can do that, the exotics are expected to take their ball and go home. Check out this month's winding road ( www.windingroad.com Read the letter from the Editor on page 3 titled "The End is Near." It isn't especially flattering in any way, but makes the point that the exotics might just go find a new game to play now that insane power isn't their sole domain.
And in my opinion, this is all indicative of a larger trend to bring power to the people. Witness the 300C and the new Charger--300+ horses for the stock HEMI, and 425 hp for the SRT8. AND they have 4 doors. Manufacturers are finally realizing that normal people love being able to get the (almost) best of both worlds, and BMW would do well the offer a 4 door M3 again, especially in today's climate of 4 door performance cars for the family man enthusiast.
PungentI'd still take an M3 over a Corvette, due to its fantastic handling in comparison. HP != exotic.
Not to mention that no US car so far as really impressed me in the styling dept, except the Ford GT. Sitting in a viper or vette is not even close to sitting in a Vanquish or Jag.
Way off-topic now. And please don't take this as a flame, I welcome discussion on this.
ShentarThe Ford GT can hang with the Ferrari's from what I read. Handling wise and power wise.
ShentarThe Ford GT can hang with the Ferrari's from what I read. Handling wise and power wise.
skicrushAnd Pungent, you reply that you consider the Ford GT an exotic. True, $140k+, mid engine, 550 hp. So, what you two are saying about the Ford GT doesn't go for the Corvette? The new Z06 has a better power to weight ratio than the Ford GT, and the little bit that has leaked out so far about lap times and such also suggest it will be able to hang with the best of them. Without a supercharger, which is how Ferrari does it, not with one (how the Ford GT does it). And considering they've detuned the engine to avoid a gas guzzler tax, I'd say they've left the engine with a lot of potential in it still.
Having said that, I'm pretty sure I would never call the Corvette exotic, no matter how much it whupped another exotic. But I sure would laugh. I guess all I was saying was that you expect a little something out of an exotic that you can't get anywhere else, and gone are the days when that little something was performance.
I'd say BMW and Aston Martin are good examples of how to do it right. You don't expect one to be faster than everything else, you just expec tthem to be a pleasure to drive and to look nice (and maybe get you a little bit of attention). But you expect a Ferrari to eat everything it meets, and the folks that bought one to do that are gonna be pretty disappointed when they get stomped by a Chevy.
I do most of my (stock to stock) grudge matches at Infinion Sport Car Course with N2 tires. I find that the Z06 and the M3 have some good races. I forget if i race the baseline M3 or the CSL but its still a good race.
These US cars still do not play the game Ferrari or Lambo do. Take the Viper, currently one of the fastest US cars. In a straight it is an unstoppable beast. But the moment those wheels need to turn left or right, you are going off the track.
SkantAre you joking? I cooked the M3 with the 69 Corvette Stingray. And the C5 Z06 is quite a bit faster still.
But then this brings up a point, I think. I race a Corvette in RL. And I'm very intimately familiar with the handling of these cars. So it's not entirely fair to compare.
But that kind of thing is true for everyone. If you're trying to find a good close competition, it will depend as much on the driver as the car. On a level playing field, an M3 is easily outclassed by a C5 Z06. But a driver who really likes the M3 would still get better lap times with the M3 than with the vette.
And that's with cars that aren't very close in performance. So it's really not too surprising why there are so many arguments about whether car A or car B is better in cases where the comparison is very close. If you talk about two machines with very similar abilities, then it's virtually entirely up to which feels better to the driver. And that's personal preference.
Now, I'm not saying that exotic supercars aren't fast. Most of them are awefully fast. But they're not unbeatable. And they're not actually the best.
So which do you suppose is faster? A $450,000 2003 Porsche Carrera GT or a 1996 Corvette Grand Sport? Obviously the Porsche right?
Well, I faced the Porsche on the track in RL. And the Corvette won.
Expensive and exotic does not equal fast.
Again, I'm not saying the Porsche Carrera GT is slow. Gods, it's not! It's wicked fast. I'm just saying that the perceived differences in performance between most of the sports cars out there are just that... perceived.
The difference in performance is often quite small. But people talk about it like one car is just plain broken while the other car is perfect. Like your comment that the Viper will automatically slide off the track because it's incapable of turning. I mean... come on. In the real world, Vipers turn very well. Can they turn as hard as a Ferrari? I haven't driven either one, so I couldn't tell you exactly. But I can tell you without a doubt it would be close. Especially if they're both running the same tire compound.
So really... I guess my message is: There's a lot of cool cars out there. I wouldn't be so quick to discount any of them. Cuz some guy will just show up out of the blue and kick your %*# with something you thought couldn't even touch you. And that's just how it is. The longer I race, the more respect I have for all sorts of sports cars.
- Skant