Best competition for M3 in GT4

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I haven't driven the new S4 IRL, but it pushes like mad in the game--understeer braking AND accelerating. You get the WORST of both worlds. I do see the point of the cars you mentioned being DERIVED from family cars, while the vette has always been a 2 seater. However, whether it be respect for BMW or disrespect for Chevy (probably the latter--it's a never-ending battle), in the game they are pretty even, with only a slight advantage going to the vette.
 
Does anyone else feel that the inline six sound from BMWs is one of, if not the greatest sounding six cylinder engines on earth? (next to Porsches of course) The day that BMW and Porsche turn to V8s will be a sad one to me. Ive driven the Bimmer 645csi and the sound from that engine is absolutely nothing compared to the current 2.5 and 3.0 liter I6s.

Edit: and the 3.2....(M3 engine duhhhh)
 
I love the sound of the M3's in real life. On GT4 THEY SOUND LIKE TOTAL GARBAGE AND IT MAKES ME TYPE IN CAPS IM SO ANGRY!

But seriously, I am pissed off that the M3's sound nothing like they do in real life. If anyone else has experienced the Nice Ripping sound when quickly revving an M3, it sounds great. It can make some people jump. And if you install a Dinan exhaust, man, that is a sweet sweet sound.
 
Chris Criswell
I don't see how an M3 is a family car, that's quite funny :D

It's definitely a sports/performance/semi-luxury car. Trust me, I drive them all/every day.

If it has more than 2 seats, it's a family car. :)

Someone I knew traded in his 3rd gen RX7 for an RX8 because he went off and had a kid. Yeah it was pretty sad.
 
Hey man, we just had a baby, and let me tell you, it has NOT diminished my desire to get a nice (as in fast) car. But do you know how big a pain it is getting a baby seat in and out of a 4 door? I used to think I could handle a coupe, but I'm thinking again. A 4 door M3 would be more than welcome!

edit: By the way, my baby girl is the cutest little girl in the whole world! I wouldn't trade having her for ANYTHING!!
 
At Autobahn there was a 2001 M5 witha Dinan Performance Chip (Top Speed was 170) selling for 27,000 and some change :D Pretty good deals if you come down here.
 
So really the competition for the M3 would be any sports coupe/sedan, especially those coupes based on sedans? This would rule out the Corvette Z06 and NSX and 350Z, although I think the M3 is such a good performer that they use the M3 for comparison purposes. Also I think we shouldn't use special editions like the Skyline Vspec Nur and just use the standard models like the GT-R Vspec or the WRX STi..
 
Yeah, those popular japanese cars are pretty close to it.

By the way I should have added. I raced all those 1 lap times with the stock cars in Arcade Mode, no Extra HP or Less Weight, Just Sports/Soft tires.
 
Wow, I just tried a stock 1990 NSX-R and it beat my best M3 lap time by almost 2 seconds! I know the car is old, but with an oil change and rigidity refresh (just to bring it back to new) it feels incredibly light and agile. Oops, here we go again comparing apples and oranges......
 
spazzyfry123
The 2000 Ford Mustang Cobra "R" is in the game. It is under the used car lot "II". But if the realism in the game is just as in real life, the M3 would win hands down against the 'Stang. I have driven both an M3 and a 2002 Mustang GT (my car) and well...on a course such as that, the M3 just outperforms in the handling.

Yeah, I didnt think the Mustang Cobra SVT was in this game but I just checked the GT4 car list and it was. Im going to have to keep an eye out for it in the used car section, im not a fan of the new 'Stangs.

As for it being able to take the M3, I think the M3 has a real tight feel to it and is very easy to drive fast. The M3 is a very tough car to beat with a 330HP car or less.
 
Chris Criswell
The Mustang GT and Mustang Cobra R are way different in my experiences...Those Brembo brakes sure as hell work good...

Yeah, not to mention the 380hp 5.4.

spazzyfry123
The 2000 Ford Mustang Cobra "R" is in the game. It is under the used car lot "II". But if the realism in the game is just as in real life, the M3 would win hands down against the 'Stang. I have driven both an M3 and a 2002 Mustang GT (my car) and well...on a course such as that, the M3 just outperforms in the handling.

The M3 is a hot car, but it definately will not hang with a purpose built, lightened, eibach sprung from the factory Cobra R. I have owned many types of Cobra's and Mustangs, and I drive new M3's, SMG's, and 6-speeds, incl. competition package every day. The M3 is a good handling car, and yes it can go around a track quicker than a GT, but the Cobra R is no Mustang GT.

Bah, enough of the Whatever vs. Whatever. Own them both, then you are an SME.
 
Chris Criswell
I wonder if the M4 and M6 will be on GT5.

By the way, (possible insider information I have)

BMW is totally renaming/revamping the "series".

The 3 Series will be now split into 3 and 4 Series, Odd numbers will have 4 doors, even numbers will have 2 doors. For example, the 4 door 3 series will stay that way, but the 2 door (330ci/325ci) will now be 4 Series, so the name should be similar to 430ci? I don't know if they will include the ci bit, but the new M3 will have a V8 engine, and will be renamed to the M4. I've known about this since just last year but it's pretty interesting and sometimes confusing.

As you know they already have started with the whole Odd/Even thing, the 5 series has 4 doors, along with the 7 series. And the 6 series has 2 doors. I can't wait until the new M6 is made, might be a while but it will be a hell of a sports car.

WRONG.

There will be NO 4-series. The reason that there is a 6 series is because the 6 is a historic BMW, it was made before. There's never been a 4 ever built with the whirlling propeller on it's bonnet. And furthermore, the M6 will perform just like the M5, amazingly, because it's the same platform, same engine and transmission. Even the weights are similar. It's just one is saloon and the other a coupe.

In wrapup, M6 out later this year, 4 is a farce.
 
I just did some comparison with the following 2 cars...

BMW M3 with N2 tires (VS) 2000 Mustang Cobra R with N2 tires

At Infinion Sport Car Course the M3 is much better in the corners. The longer the corner the better it is in comp. to the 'stang. I think I was able to pull 1-2.5 sec better lap times with the M3 over the Stang


I then took them to the long strait the the LaSarthe II track (Im not sure on the exact name but the one with the real long strait)

I noticed... 0-30mph cars were dead even with Soft Sport Tires on both however the M3 was a little easier to get off the line. 30-155mph the Stang has slightly more power than the M3. The cars had VERY similar top end performance. The gearing for topend runs is much better in the M3 (you can actually use 6th gear). The stangs gearing isn't so good on top however (Dont bother using 6th gear)


So: M3 for the track, Superchaged Stang for highway races with rolling starts.
 
^ that stang in GT4 ISNT supercharged.
lets get 1 thing straight:
'00 Mustang SVT Cobra R 300 built
'03 Mustang SVT Cobra
are 2 different but same-bodied cars.
Cobra R has:
5.4liter 4valve Modular Motor
385hp/385tq
6-speed
no back seats/no radio/no ac
13'' brembo brakes
Independent Rear Suspension

'03-'04 Cobra (not in GT4)
4.6 4v Modular Motor + Factory Supercharger
390hp/390tq (underrated)
6 speed
13'' Brembo Brakes
IRS also, but not the same type

I honestly wasn't a fan of mustangs at ALL before the '03 supercharged ones came out, but then after seeing some videos and finding out Ford slapped a supercharger in it, i became a fan.
Josh is still a MOD here i think, he has a silver one pushing close to +500hp with only a handful of mods.
And i really dont care if the mustang is somewhat common, but these days i see less on the road, and i see more 3 series bmws, i also see more e46 M3s than '03-'04 Cobras, although they are hard to distinguish, the '03 cobra looks waay better IMO compared to the passed Cobras (maybe even the Cobra R).
you really cant beat what it offers:
Handbuilt motor for less than 30k
able to push 800hp on STOCK internals (sounds like a supra)
with 3k invest into the car you can be pusing OVER +450RWHP (and thats the low side).

NOW back to the subject, i acutally bought a regular m3 in this game, (already have M3 GTR, M3 Racecar).
i really didnt get attracted to the M3 GTR roadversion, simply because i didnt give it enough time, but i fell in love with the regular m3 when i drove it and put some 5 spoke rims. So far i have only put a few mods to only push out 390hp, and its a fricken joy to drive, it stops so well and corners like a dream.
 
What's wrong in comparing a 2004 M3 to a 2002 NSX ???

They are both coupes, and should be seen as the same class ? I think it's a good comparison !
 
kragbees
What's wrong in comparing a 2004 M3 to a 2002 NSX ???

They are both coupes, and should be seen as the same class ? I think it's a good comparison !

They might be just as fast as each other, but that doesn't mean they're the same class. The NSX is a pure sports car, the M3 isn't. It's just really really fast.

I think the M3 should be compared against cars like the Audi S4, AMG C55, and maybe that Caddilac CTS-V. Too bad those cars aren't all in the game.
 
There will be a 4 Series, I work at Autobahn, the owners were talking about the change in the Series name changes.

By the way, the M6 will have a 5.0-liter, DOHC, 40 Valve, V-10 engine.
 
skicrush
You know, in '97 and '98 BMW made Sedan M3's, so it wouldn't really be THAT weird.

The C6 is the new corvette (6th gen). The C5 Z06 and C5R (Corvette Race car) are in GT4, the C6 and C6 Z06 are not (the C6 Z06 is the 500+ horse monster). And the new Corvette race car is the C6R. The new Z06 due out this fall has a better power/weight than the Ford GT, is na (giving it a flatter torque curve and opening the door WIDE open for tuners), and has been tamed DOWN to 500 horses to avoid a gas guzzler tax in the US. And it's speculated to cost between $60k and $70k. And if a CHEVY can do that, the exotics are expected to take their ball and go home. Check out this month's winding road ( www.windingroad.com Read the letter from the Editor on page 3 titled "The End is Near." It isn't especially flattering in any way, but makes the point that the exotics might just go find a new game to play now that insane power isn't their sole domain.

And in my opinion, this is all indicative of a larger trend to bring power to the people. Witness the 300C and the new Charger--300+ horses for the stock HEMI, and 425 hp for the SRT8. AND they have 4 doors. Manufacturers are finally realizing that normal people love being able to get the (almost) best of both worlds, and BMW would do well the offer a 4 door M3 again, especially in today's climate of 4 door performance cars for the family man enthusiast.

You are forgetting one important thing. The exotics have horses AND handling. I do admit, the Corvette is probably the best handling US car. But they still can't hold a candle to the handling of a Ferrari or Aston-Martin. I am in the US, and I do love the Corvette (one of the few US cars I like), but the crap about exotics going home and finding a new game is false. These US cars still do not play the game Ferrari or Lambo do. Take the Viper, currently one of the fastest US cars. In a straight it is an unstoppable beast. But the moment those wheels need to turn left or right, you are going off the track.

I'd still take an M3 over a Corvette, due to its fantastic handling in comparison. HP != exotic.
Not to mention that no US car so far as really impressed me in the styling dept, except the Ford GT. Sitting in a viper or vette is not even close to sitting in a Vanquish or Jag.

Way off-topic now. And please don't take this as a flame, I welcome discussion on this.
 
Pungent
I'd still take an M3 over a Corvette, due to its fantastic handling in comparison. HP != exotic.
Not to mention that no US car so far as really impressed me in the styling dept, except the Ford GT. Sitting in a viper or vette is not even close to sitting in a Vanquish or Jag.

Way off-topic now. And please don't take this as a flame, I welcome discussion on this.

The Ford GT can hang with the Ferrari's from what I read. Handling wise and power wise.
 
Shentar
The Ford GT can hang with the Ferrari's from what I read. Handling wise and power wise.

The Ford GT is definately what I'd call an exotic. No argument there, that car is amazing (and beautiful too). I mentioned that it was the exception to my rant.
 
I'm suprised nobody brought up the Merc CLK55 AMG. It's not as performance oriented as the M3, but the specs are pretty similar, pretty much in the same market segment. I think Car and Driver did a comparison test between them a few years ago, and the M3 did end up beating the CLK55 in terms of performance.
 
Shentar
The Ford GT can hang with the Ferrari's from what I read. Handling wise and power wise.

And Pungent, you reply that you consider the Ford GT an exotic. True, $140k+, mid engine, 550 hp. So, what you two are saying about the Ford GT doesn't go for the Corvette? The new Z06 has a better power to weight ratio than the Ford GT, and the little bit that has leaked out so far about lap times and such also suggest it will be able to hang with the best of them. Without a supercharger, which is how Ferrari does it, not with one (how the Ford GT does it). And considering they've detuned the engine to avoid a gas guzzler tax, I'd say they've left the engine with a lot of potential in it still.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure I would never call the Corvette exotic, no matter how much it whupped another exotic. But I sure would laugh. I guess all I was saying was that you expect a little something out of an exotic that you can't get anywhere else, and gone are the days when that little something was performance.

I'd say BMW and Aston Martin are good examples of how to do it right. You don't expect one to be faster than everything else, you just expec tthem to be a pleasure to drive and to look nice (and maybe get you a little bit of attention). But you expect a Ferrari to eat everything it meets, and the folks that bought one to do that are gonna be pretty disappointed when they get stomped by a Chevy.
 
skicrush
And Pungent, you reply that you consider the Ford GT an exotic. True, $140k+, mid engine, 550 hp. So, what you two are saying about the Ford GT doesn't go for the Corvette? The new Z06 has a better power to weight ratio than the Ford GT, and the little bit that has leaked out so far about lap times and such also suggest it will be able to hang with the best of them. Without a supercharger, which is how Ferrari does it, not with one (how the Ford GT does it). And considering they've detuned the engine to avoid a gas guzzler tax, I'd say they've left the engine with a lot of potential in it still.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure I would never call the Corvette exotic, no matter how much it whupped another exotic. But I sure would laugh. I guess all I was saying was that you expect a little something out of an exotic that you can't get anywhere else, and gone are the days when that little something was performance.

I'd say BMW and Aston Martin are good examples of how to do it right. You don't expect one to be faster than everything else, you just expec tthem to be a pleasure to drive and to look nice (and maybe get you a little bit of attention). But you expect a Ferrari to eat everything it meets, and the folks that bought one to do that are gonna be pretty disappointed when they get stomped by a Chevy.

Alright, I'll concede that point being that I have not yet read anything nor seen anything about the Z06. Like I mentioned, I'm not hating on the Vette, I love that car. The other day I pulled up to a Stingray at a stoplight and was in awe.

The problem I have is trusting raw speed or laptimes until I see the track itself. I witnessed my brother's Dodge SRT truck blow away a plenty of Vettes. The Viper is unbelievably fast. In a straight. If those laptimes were good I question if the track was the usual oval. Not saying they couldn't have engineered the car to handle great, but that usually isn't the focus of American sports cars.

I will of course not make any conclusions yet until I've seen the new Vette, but they are still really nice cars. I'm simply saying they still aren't going to replace the Vanquish or M3 or Ferrari in my mind.

From the rest of your post, I want to apologize, I'm not trying to be argumentative about this, and it sounds like we are actually in agreement. I was just a tad upset regarding the write up about that article linked above, as the exotics are still in a different class to me.

I guess this has me thinking, just what IS an exotic really? The Ford GT to me would fit the description, its fast, can take corners, and was built to be raced. When you see it on a rotating platform at a car show it just takes your breath away, and then you suddenly realize, 'WOW, that is a FORD!?' ( true story, except the 'its a ford' part, that was my sister that said that ).

And yea, an Aston-Martin is a pleasure to just STAND next to, I could only dream of driving one :)
 
I do most of my (stock to stock) grudge matches at Infinion Sport Car Course with N2 tires. I find that the Z06 and the M3 have some good races. I forget if i race the baseline M3 or the CSL but its still a good race.

Are you joking? I cooked the M3 with the 69 Corvette Stingray. And the C5 Z06 is quite a bit faster still.

But then this brings up a point, I think. I race a Corvette in RL. And I'm very intimately familiar with the handling of these cars. So it's not entirely fair to compare.

But that kind of thing is true for everyone. If you're trying to find a good close competition, it will depend as much on the driver as the car. On a level playing field, an M3 is easily outclassed by a C5 Z06. But a driver who really likes the M3 would still get better lap times with the M3 than with the vette.

And that's with cars that aren't very close in performance. So it's really not too surprising why there are so many arguments about whether car A or car B is better in cases where the comparison is very close. If you talk about two machines with very similar abilities, then it's virtually entirely up to which feels better to the driver. And that's personal preference.


These US cars still do not play the game Ferrari or Lambo do. Take the Viper, currently one of the fastest US cars. In a straight it is an unstoppable beast. But the moment those wheels need to turn left or right, you are going off the track.

One of the first things I found out about when I started racing in RL is the rift between 'exoticness' and 'fast'. The image of invincibility built up around exotic supercars is a fabrication of the marketing departments that make those cars. And most of the public falls for it hook line and sinker.

If you ask an average person to put a list of sports cars in order from fastest to slowest, they can do it. They think they know. And the order they put the cars in will be precisely the order of how successful the marketting departments for those manufacturers have been in promoting the prestige of that car.

Unfortunately, the ordering of the list won't be anything like how fast the cars actually are.

Now, I'm not saying that exotic supercars aren't fast. Most of them are awefully fast. But they're not unbeatable. And they're not actually the best.

So which do you suppose is faster? A $450,000 2003 Porsche Carrera GT or a 1996 Corvette Grand Sport? Obviously the Porsche right?

Well, I faced the Porsche on the track in RL. And the Corvette won.

Expensive and exotic does not equal fast.

Again, I'm not saying the Porsche Carrera GT is slow. Gods, it's not! It's wicked fast. I'm just saying that the perceived differences in performance between most of the sports cars out there are just that... perceived.

The difference in performance is often quite small. But people talk about it like one car is just plain broken while the other car is perfect. Like your comment that the Viper will automatically slide off the track because it's incapable of turning. I mean... come on. In the real world, Vipers turn very well. Can they turn as hard as a Ferrari? I haven't driven either one, so I couldn't tell you exactly. But I can tell you without a doubt it would be close. Especially if they're both running the same tire compound.

So really... I guess my message is: There's a lot of cool cars out there. I wouldn't be so quick to discount any of them. Cuz some guy will just show up out of the blue and kick your %*# with something you thought couldn't even touch you. And that's just how it is. The longer I race, the more respect I have for all sorts of sports cars.

- Skant
 
Skant
Are you joking? I cooked the M3 with the 69 Corvette Stingray. And the C5 Z06 is quite a bit faster still.

But then this brings up a point, I think. I race a Corvette in RL. And I'm very intimately familiar with the handling of these cars. So it's not entirely fair to compare.

But that kind of thing is true for everyone. If you're trying to find a good close competition, it will depend as much on the driver as the car. On a level playing field, an M3 is easily outclassed by a C5 Z06. But a driver who really likes the M3 would still get better lap times with the M3 than with the vette.

And that's with cars that aren't very close in performance. So it's really not too surprising why there are so many arguments about whether car A or car B is better in cases where the comparison is very close. If you talk about two machines with very similar abilities, then it's virtually entirely up to which feels better to the driver. And that's personal preference.

Now, I'm not saying that exotic supercars aren't fast. Most of them are awefully fast. But they're not unbeatable. And they're not actually the best.

So which do you suppose is faster? A $450,000 2003 Porsche Carrera GT or a 1996 Corvette Grand Sport? Obviously the Porsche right?

Well, I faced the Porsche on the track in RL. And the Corvette won.

Expensive and exotic does not equal fast.

Again, I'm not saying the Porsche Carrera GT is slow. Gods, it's not! It's wicked fast. I'm just saying that the perceived differences in performance between most of the sports cars out there are just that... perceived.

The difference in performance is often quite small. But people talk about it like one car is just plain broken while the other car is perfect. Like your comment that the Viper will automatically slide off the track because it's incapable of turning. I mean... come on. In the real world, Vipers turn very well. Can they turn as hard as a Ferrari? I haven't driven either one, so I couldn't tell you exactly. But I can tell you without a doubt it would be close. Especially if they're both running the same tire compound.

So really... I guess my message is: There's a lot of cool cars out there. I wouldn't be so quick to discount any of them. Cuz some guy will just show up out of the blue and kick your %*# with something you thought couldn't even touch you. And that's just how it is. The longer I race, the more respect I have for all sorts of sports cars.

- Skant

Totally in agreement. Again I want to say I don't hate the Vette. I love those cars. Personally I would still take an M3 over a Vette, but thats just me, I prefer the styling and handling of the M3, it acts the way I expect the car to (in game here) and I don't have to adjust my driving to it.

Though the Viper thing, I really would want to believe what you are saying, but until I see a Viper taking a Ferrari, in a pro race with both drivers being intimately familiar with their cars, I'm still going to go with the Ferrari. The Viper can turn very well, if you slow down a lot, a whole lot more than I can push a Vanquish through the turn. I can't get the Viper to handle very well at all, its a knife edge between going into the wall or spinning out, wheras I can easily push a Vanquish around a turn with no problems. They are ungodly fast, as I mentioned my brother had (HAD, until he destroyed the front end ramping a steep hill) an SRT truck with the Viper engine, and it was unbelievable.

You are totally correct about there are a lot of great cars out there. And man I do love the '69 Stingray, it is a great car. All of them have strengths and weaknesses. In some cases for me its just a matter of the styling of the car. All of this started from the comment of a fast Vette meaning that exotics have no place anymore.

I don't doubt that someone that is intimately familiar with a car can easily take someone in an exotic, like you were able to take a Porsche in your Vette. That doesn't really surprise me. Some cars fit a persons driving style like a glove. And for that very reason is why the exotics will never have to 'go home'.
 
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