Best Drivers, Cars, and Teams to Never Win Le Mans

  • Thread starter Thread starter JohnBM01
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You're right, TWR did go out of business a few years ago. And we know Ford killed off the promising Aston Martin Group C project when they took over Jaguar in 1989/90. And that they haven't exactly given Aston Martin the necessary budget to compete full-time in the ALMS.

It's just a bit of a fantasy of mine to see a pair of BRG Jags on the LM grid (actually I'd like to see three/four/five of them, but that's no longer allowed), partially based on the rumors of one of NASCAR's "Big Three" leaving to do other series, notably a LMP1 effort. If that was Ford, Jaguar would be the perfect marque for a LM effort.

Even though TWR went out of business, TW himself could run a "Jaguar Racing" effort. They could get someone like Gordon Murray to design the car (there are rumors of him working on a LMP design) and Jaguar could go for an overall win. Besides, Aston Martin Racing won't be around forever.
 
Layla's Keeper
Well TVR, I'm guessing you're not counting the Bentley Speed 8 (I wouldn't either, freaking Audi in drag) so I'll remind you to turn back the clock to 1990, the year of the last TWR Silk Cut Jaguar victory.

Le_Mans-1990-06-17-003.jpg


And here it is, the 1990 Le Mans winning Jaguar XJR-12. It's evolved siblings were 2nd, 3rd, and 4th to the 787B in 1991.
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McLaren F1? Did you forget 1995? So many people forget this, it was a great achievement since it was a GT1 class car racing against many prototypes and it was it's debut race.

Best car? F1 GTR Longtail. Shame it couldn't beat those 911 GT1's, they were much better looking cars too.
 
I'm discounting the McLaren F1 for the same reason I'm discounting the Bentley Speed 8. A BMW engine does not a British sports car make.

If McLaren had used a proper Cossie or Rover lump, it'd have made my day, but the McLaren F1 is no more a British victory than that of the Cobras or GT40s (less we forget the MkI and MkII's were primarily a Lola design).
 
I also discredit Bentley's win, as I only saw it as a R8 with a roof on it. The F1, however, was designed in England, by a company widely considered to be British (Bruce McLaren was a Kiwi) and built in England. Many people acknowledge it as a British win.
 
Nice to see this thread revived a bit. Now that this year's race is done, are there any recent nominees to add for "Best Driver(s)/Car(s)/Team(s) to Never Win Le Mans?"

On the topic of certain cars given a win for a certain nationality, how do you describe the Ford GT40s' string of wins in the 1960s? A number of Americans consider those as American wins despite the fact that Ford is an American company. What do you think with Ford's GT40 efforts? No disrespect to the GT40. I would NEVER disrespect the GT40.
 
Okay, there's only two GT40's that are purely American, and those are the MkIII road cars and the MkIV which shared virtually no components with the previous MkII or MkI race cars.

The MkI's were really just an invetero phase of the Lola T-70 chassis, and were suitably fragile (just ask Carroll Shelby how horrific those MkI's were) and experienced very little success. The much more successful MkII's were ShelbyAmerican revisions that housed either the 289ci Cobra engine or the 427ci side oiler, plus received a new stronger gearbox and heavily revised rear suspension.

The MkII's 1966 victory was a sort of hybrid win, with all of the remaining British content in the MkII design.

The MkIV's, on the other hand, were purely American, with most of the design coming from either ShelbyAmerican or infamous NASCAR team Holman/Moody (who'd learned a lot from their ill-fated "Honker II" Can Am car).

Now, here's the sticking point, the next two GT40 wins were not Ford factory, and in fact were performed by converted MkI chassis produced by Ford Advanced Vehicles in the UK.

You see, the Gulf cars of 1968-1969 were first MkI's built in the UK by FAV, which was purchased by John Wyer, a British privateer who'd scored a win at Le Mans with the Aston Martin DBR1 as Aston Martin's team manager.

Coincidentally, this was with Carroll Shelby as his driver.

Now, the Wyer Automotive MkI GT40's were converted in 1967 into Mirages, which sported narrower, lighter bodywork than the GT40 MkII and were nearly as fast as the MkIV, but also fragile.

In 1968, their configuration was backdated into an "Evo" form of MkII with sleeker, lighter, carbon reinforced body with an aluminum roof, and the Ford 302 Boss engine to comply with the "production sports car" 5.0L engine displacement limit.

These English-built privateer GT40 MkII Evos, the Gulf cars, scored back to back wins in 1968 and 69.

So, we have one Brit-Yank hybrid, one full on Yank, and two full on Brits, all with the same car. Wild, no?
 
You're good man, Layla's Keeper. Thanks for setting us straight again.
 
Cirtek Mustangs.
Donington-1997-09-14-077.jpg


Le_Mans-2004-06-13-010.jpg

Could have beaten Audi to the first diesel Le Mans win, but didn't.
 
Layla's Keeper
I'm discounting the McLaren F1 for the same reason I'm discounting the Bentley Speed 8. A BMW engine does not a British sports car make.
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Would you class the Silver Arrows Sauber C9's '89 win as a Swiss or British win then? :sly:
 
I've recently played "Sports Car GT." Call me crazy, but I never noticed the little mustang painted on the sides. "Test Drive: Le Mans" featured Team Cirtek, but not the specific Mustangs posted in Post #40. Remember that we're talking about cars, teams, and drivers that have at least one start at Le Mans. If a race car never qualified for the big race, then it is disqualified for discussion here.

You know how I say that I hate Cadillac? An American example I wanted to bring across was the Cadillac Northstar LMP. The car was part of the 1999 and/or 2000 versions of the race. This is the only Cadillac I like. And it was a shame that the lovely 2004 Northstar LMP. Maybe it wasn't a purely competive car, but it was one I wished would have really been a nice American LMP effort. More info of the 2000 car here: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/cadillac.htm

This car never started Le Mans, but it is one car probably capable of a good enough career at Le Mans: { http://www.mulsannescorner.com/cadillaclmp02.html }. This was the Cadillac Northstar LMP02. The car never started Le Mans to my knowledge. And as mulsannecorner.com states:

"though it was still clear that Cadillac's philiosophy of cherry-picking the ALMS schedule hurt the program. The car needed race miles and didn't get them. To be successful, a chassis needs to be raced, not simply tested. Audi proved that to us. This 'Audi-beater' needed to follow suit. In the end, GM uncerimonsiously cancelled the program at th eend of 2002 stating their goals had all been met adding one more black eye to GM's fickle racing history." -mulsannecorner.com

I just wanted to bring this car up simply because this car WOULD have had a decent career had it been better able to qualify it and get it to actually BEAT Audi. Other than that, leave the Audi-beating to Panoz- a REAL sportscar racing program. And I will also say that the Panoz LMP Roadster needed a win at Le Mans. Just that the Audis were too much.
 
I started this thread in 2006. Now that it's 2014 as of this post and since there is still a good bit of relevance to this thread, I figured I'd bump this up and ask if there are any RECENT entries you want to add to the list of great cars, drivers, and teams to never win Le Mans... or at least haven't yet won Le Mans?
 
Rebellion Racing are good enough to win if they had the same budget as the factory cars, they became so efficient and being able to beat everybody but the Audis/Peugeots/Toyotas.

Pescarolo still deserve to have one it at some point. In 2009 the car was very fast and they did well in the LMS with it.


The E92 M3 GT2/GTE was a very good car but never won as it's Dunlop tyres let it down. Had it have been on Michelins it would've won at least once.
 
Clark
Rebellion Racing are good enough to win if they had the same budget as the factory cars, they became so efficient and being able to beat everybody but the Audis/Peugeots/Toyotas.

Pescarolo still deserve to have one it at some point. In 2009 the car was very fast and they did well in the LMS with it.


The E92 M3 GT2/GTE was a very good car but never won as it's Dunlop tyres let it down. Had it have been on Michelins it would've won at least once.
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I'm sure any team which had more money could have won.

I wish Aston Martin Racing had a better run with their Lola. Unfavorable regs with petrol power probably contributed to their lack of success.
 

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