Best events/exercises to improve fundamentals/stop bad habits?

[Niko-H]

Reading the "Time Trial Discussion" thread got me thinking. I'd love to hear some community insights here.

Here's the situation. I am an "OKAY" driver. On the weekly time trials, I can usually get a "high bronze" lap time (6-7% off the top time) within a few laps, no matter the car or track. But I feel that even if I vigorously practice that time trial, I cannot find that last few percent to get into silver or gold territory.
This same problem stumps me with circuit experiences or events requiring much more pace (e.g., the chili pepper races).

After reflecting, I realized I have some poor driving fundamentals. Maybe it's not turning in at the right point, not braking efficiently (e.g. not trail-braking into the turn), or coasting through the corner and accelerating too late (obviously killing the exit speed).

The #1 advice I read is to "keep practicing." But what's the motivation to "practice" when I might be practicing bad habits and don't fully understand what to correct?

• Sure, I can do 500 laps of Sardegna in the Ferrari Dino and MAYBE get a good lap time. But is that improving my underlying skills? Or am I just turning laps with bad habits and hoping I'm eventually fast enough? Sometimes that's what it feels like.
• I can do 500 laps of the Lago Maggiore circuit experience, but will that improve my skills enough to hang with the field in the Human Comedy event?

I've started nosing around YouTube and such (@Tidgney's videos have been great so far) - but watching and reading only goes so far.

With all that said, what cars/tracks/events/license tests/exercises/missions in GT7 can best help recognize and correct bad habits, and practice and improve these fundamental skills?

• Are there specific license tests that help the most? Or should I revoke my GT7 license and start over?
• Are any circuit experience tracks better than others? Or should I pick one each week to focus on?
• Am I too hard on myself with the weekly time trials and should stick with it?
• Do I need to step up to Hard difficulty, try more chili races, race more against Sophy, or start racing online?
• Or is this post just a bunch of rambling from someone who has run out of talent?

 

[Nebuc72]

Use a ghost in the Time Trials, have it reset per sector, and just follow what it does.
Copy where and when it brakes, where it turns into, where it accelerates out. That's how I learn the fastest line around a track.

 

[bduddy]

Until you have golds in every license test and CE, I don't think there's any one specific thing you can focus on that would help more than filling whatever gaps you have. Do you?

 

[Lomic]

Following a ghost is IMHO the best ROI you could get in terms of time spent versus progress.

 

[330_D]

Brake earlier than you think you should. Throttle out later than you think you should. Learn to trail brake. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Throttle and brake are not digital they are analog. ... Use every inch of the track when applicable.


Edit to add, whatever track is difficult for you but also that you enjoy very much is a good place to start working on circuit experience. Just keep at it until it clicks. Don't overdo either. At some point you'll have diminishing returns. Stop. Reset. Try again later. You mentioned the TT thread, that place will make you wicked fast if you stick to it and pay attention. I used to be just like you. Very casual about my GT time. In less than a year I'm pretty consistently in the top 1 percent time trialing. It just takes time.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Don't do offline events. You learn nothing against idiot AI and benchmarks that are too easy.

Do time trials online - load their ghost, figure out what they're doing and try to replicate it. You are literally seeing the best way that anyone in the world drives a car when you do this.

Make friends when racing daily races, load their ghosts in daily race practice and time trials so you can try and beat them.

 

[skydragon49]

I'd say online time trials is your best bet if you're looking to improve your driving.

Each TT can be be a source of important lessons and add up to your experience and knowledge.

Focusing on this portion of the game was the best thing I ever done in GT7.

Edit: you mentioned doing 500 laps in a circuit in the TT. I'm a firm believer that repetition is key, however as you said it is not the fact you drive 500 laps that makes you a better player. It is the amount of laps or time you spend learning where to improve. Analyzing people's laps, seeing how they break, how early they hit the gas or what line they take or whatever you want to see and then you spend time trying to apply what you learned in your hot lap.

Seems simple, but it is quite a process. And it is a rewarding one.

 

[Def-Infinity]

Well, first thing: Do you understand what the car is doing?

 

[smoothbore12]

From what am experience till now ,the TT's are a good way to improve someone his skills .
The fact that there's always someone to " teach" you is crucial.
Might be one of your friends on your leaderboard or someone else and you can take advantage as well spoken above .

Repeating the same thing over and over , training the instinct and soon things become more natural, but ......
But there is always the fear to do the wrong thing over and over and no progress show up.

Its when you have to stop and leave it for another time .
Many times works better the other time or the other day cause that's how it goes on everything.

Of course someone must consider the equipment that he and others use and unfortunately we don't have all the same reflections and age.
But always in any level there's room for improvement, so realising where you stand first is a good point to start .
Training the " right " way is the second spot someone must focus.
Also we don't have all the same learning curve but is definitely sure that doing something wrong even for 500 laps can't lead you somewhere.

 

[Pesselles]

Until you have golds in every license test and CE, I don't think there's any one specific thing you can focus on that would help more than filling whatever gaps you have. Do you?

I second this answer.


@Niko-H here are my 2 cents, based on my personal learning curve on GT7.

To improve driving skills and get gold on TTs, it's essential to learn and master the driving basis. No matter you play on controller, on manual, with a wheel, every player starts by learning and mastering these skills first.

Golding the licence tests, and golding the CEs, are the best way to learn, and improve these primary skills.

Once it's done, compare your scores to your leaderboard friends. Replay your lowest scores as long as necessary to get better results (see my CEs scores in my signature). Feel free to add me as friend

If you've started with bad habits, this first step will learn you how to fix them and get the appropriate ones because, there's no many ways to get gold on licence tests and on CE, but only one: the right one. As long you're not doing perfectly, you won't have gold.

Once this step acquired, join the TTs and pratice with humility and confidence. Quickly, your scores will get better but not immediatly. Be patient and consistent.
Some TTs are really hard to gold, even for good players (see my stats).
Following an appropriate ghost (according to your level) and watching videos guides are your best friends to start efficiently each TT. Learn first, drive after. Not the inverse.


Last advice: remember it's only and nothing but a game.
You should play to have fun and joy. Competition is good but not the point.

Best

 

[Gorefast]

I'd say online time trials is your best bet if you're looking to improve your driving.

Each TT can be be a source of important lessons and add up to your experience and knowledge.

Focusing on this portion of the game was the best thing I ever done in GT7.

Edit: you mentioned doing 500 laps in a circuit in the TT. I'm a firm believer that repetition is key, however as you said it is not the fact you drive 500 laps that makes you a better player. It is the amount of laps or time you spend learning where to improve. Analyzing people's laps, seeing how they break, how early they hit the gas or what line they take or whatever you want to see and then you spend time trying to apply what you learned in your hot lap.

Seems simple, but it is quite a process. And it is a rewarding one.

Yeah, time trials were the key for me. They brought me more fun and with that more seating time with GT7 than ever before. I am happy to see some of the guys in this thread also in my PSN-friends list and they all did help in one or another way. At GTPlanet are so many supportive and helping hands that you will reach your goal and maybe even more... Have fun!

Switching to other racing games I love shows me that I improved my driving during the last 12 months significantly. That feels good and brings me self-confidence and motivation. If you're looking for ghosts with the slightest improvement, feel free to add me via PSN as 'apaul3133'. Greetings!

 

[Steer]

• Are there specific license tests that help the most? Or should I revoke my GT7 license and start over?

There is no point starting over. Did you get gold in the licence tests? If no, then you could try to gold them. There is a demo ghost that might help for any that you are really struggling with. As you know, most are bitesized and gold is achievable on all of them with a bit of practice. Some easier than others of course.

• Are any circuit experience tracks better than others? Or should I pick one each week to focus on?

For me the 'Ring and some of the Tokyo tracks are the most difficult. The others are mostly similar for me. I assume you want to get faster on normal tracks, and if so ignore the snow and rally ones. Pick a track, watch the demo, and try to get gold. If you are struggling then you can load up the demo ghost.

• Am I too hard on myself with the weekly time trials and should stick with it?

Weekly time trials are the best way of judging where you are at. I used to Gold only about 1/3rd of them when I got the game, but after a lot of practice I now gold about 8/10. Obviously I still have room for improvement.

• Do I need to step up to Hard difficulty, try more chili races, race more against Sophy, or start racing online?

As mentioned by other above most offline racing is a rubbish way of judging your ability. But yes, up the difficulty to Hard anyway.

• Or is this post just a bunch of rambling from someone who has run out of talent

I am not young but I am better than I used to be. Anyone can improve.

You do not mention what driver aids you are using.

Manual gearbox is a must.

And I suggest not using TCS on low power cars and maybe just use that at 1 on the more powerful cars if you need to. I only use above TCS 1 on the silly 1000 bhp cars that are very difficult to drive.

The red braking markers are useful to us mere mortals who struggle to learn a track. Sometimes they are misleading though. The good players turn them off for a reason.

If you are feeling really brave you could post a video of yourself on here and ask for help. Someone will be able to point out what you can do better.

 

[Niko-H]

Thank you everyone! There are bits and pieces of the puzzle I'm trying to solve everywhere.
At a minimum, I have a few homework assignments - I'll put a much more honest effort into the CXPs/licenses I left off at, and next week's TT!

Following a ghost is IMHO the best ROI you could get in terms of time spent versus progress.

You nailed what I was getting at - maximizing the "ROI" of practicing. I still have a handful of offline events to beat, cars to collect, etc. So I want to balance that with the practicing side, without getting burned out. That's why I tried to poke at specific events.

Love the suggestion of having the ghost reset by sector. Not sure why I never tried that previously.

Don't do offline events. You learn nothing against idiot AI and benchmarks that are too easy.

Fair enough. I admittedly have spent most of my GT7 time following the AI bozos that make the original B-Spec Bob look like Senna. That's probably where some bad habits came from (also by constantly avoiding their nonsense driving).

Well, first thing: Do you understand what the car is doing?

To a point. I don't have the maximum feel for what the car is doing or how far from the edge I am.
But I understand enough to be dangerous - when the car is plowing toward the gravel, it might be because I turned in too late and overloaded the tires with too much speed and turning angle. Or, if it's breaking loose on the corner exit, I either stabbed the throttle too abruptly or at the wrong time. Hence how I landed at "my general driving technique is not great, how do I improve there?" as opposed to "all the cars in this game suck, they don't turn at all, help!"

From what am experience till now ,the TT's are a good way to improve someone his skills .
The fact that there's always someone to " teach" you is crucial.
Might be one of your friends on your leaderboard or someone else and you can take advantage as well spoken above .

Repeating the same thing over and over , training the instinct and soon things become more natural, but ......
But there is always the fear to do the wrong thing over and over and no progress show up.

Its when you have to stop and leave it for another time .
Many times works better the other time or the other day cause that's how it goes on everything.

Of course someone must consider the equipment that he and others use and unfortunately we don't have all the same reflections and age.
But always in any level there's room for improvement, so realising where you stand first is a good point to start .
Training the " right " way is the second spot someone must focus.
Also we don't have all the same learning curve but is definitely sure that doing something wrong even for 500 laps can't lead you somewhere.

Well explained. The part I found so frustrating was leaving a CXP for another time, returning, and landing in the same spot. It felt like I was getting consistent at mediocre driving. That's why I wanted ideas to change my approach.

Last advice: remember it's only and nothing but a game.
You should play to have fun and joy. Competition is good but not the point.

Absolutely! Perhaps the original question could've been, "how can I make practicing more enjoyable?"

If you are feeling really brave you could post a video of yourself on here and ask for help. Someone will be able to point out what you can do better.

Not brave enough yet. It's like the fear those who are afraid of public speaking have - but somehow I'm more afraid of getting annihilated on a message board over a game (sorry simulator) vs. presenting to a room of people.
Maybe when I improve a little and hit the next wall!

P.S. - always MT, ABS weak, and TCS 1 mostly across the board. Occasionally higher TCS to help with rain or on unusually obnoxious cars.

 

[Pesselles]

Absolutely! Perhaps the original question could've been, "how can I make practicing more enjoyable?"

A possible answer to this smart question is also in my signature (check for Titans)

 

[Lomic]

Love the suggestion of having the ghost reset by sector. Not sure why I never tried that previously.

Yep, did not thought about that precision but it is crucial, the ghost is useless if you can't even see it vanishing in the distance 😅

 

[Niko-H]

Hi All -

I just wanted to revisit this thread and thank everyone for again the encouragement, motivation, advice, etc.

I've already doubled my total of gold circuit experiences. It's not much, but considering the only 4 I had were ovals and the mini Kyoto circuit, it qualifies as progress!
I've also been pretty happy with the last two online TTs (GT-One/Fuji and McLaren/VGT). Not yet where I want to be, but closer.

Here are my biggest takeaways for anyone who sees this thread in the future:
1) Confidence. I'm extremely tough on myself in "real life," and I'm excellent at carrying it over to stuff that's supposed to be fun. The gold CXPs came easier than I expected - maybe because my baseline was a little better than I gave myself credit for. I just didn't have the confidence to push that extra few %.

2) Loading a ghost and resetting it by sector. Even if you select a very fast ghost, it is invaluable because it illustrates where you're losing time, where your racing line is sub-optimal, etc.
It also feels great when you start hanging with the ghost through a few turns!

3) Videos and other tutorials. There's a ton of information out there - almost too much. But even casually watching and reading can unlock a few gems.
Tidgney mentioned in one of his GT Sport School videos - "don't be in a situation where the car is doing nothing." That clicked right away - I realized I lost a lot of time letting the car "do nothing" through the corner, which obviously kills exit speed.
The point is that sometimes you just need the concept explained differently for it to be actionable.

 

[slipknotroxx]

Great topic.

I fell same of the author this post.

Practice, practice but not viewed improves.

 

[feral and bad]

I agree that Time Trials are a huge help. There is a wealth of information in the Time Trial thrread, but you have to be willing to spend the time searching for it. They have helped and embarrassed me into being faster than I would have been.

There are lots of things that you have to be continually learning and adapting to.

High Downforce cars behave much differently than others.

The drive train orientation (FR,RR,MR,FF) behaviors are significantly different

Use the pedal configuration to practice pedal pressure, 25% 50% 75% etc.
One of the coaches recommends being able to place with a 1% resolution, maybe the aliens can, I'm lucky with 25% (maybe why I am so slow?).

Not all trail braking is the same, right now, in the time trials, compare T1 at Suzuka with the first half of Spoon at Suzuka or Parabolica at Monza.

Turn on the cones and do nothing but practice hitting apexes.

Learn to use your eyesight effectively, always looking where you want the car to go.

Don't trust the driving line assist, it works in general, but in many cases it is far from the fastest.

Watch guides of fast people on Youtube.

Talk yourself through the upcoming sequence before you get there and repeat it as you go through it. I.E. Brake hard, perfectly straight, slowly release to 50% as I turn in, maximum turn is right before apex, ease on throttle as brakes completely release, 75% throttle unitl I am straight, then 100% for example.

Follow DIFFERENT ghosts, there are subtle differences with different drivers on different tracks, You will find that some drivers are better suited to your style. For instance, I generally start with Tidgney, then try for TheKie25 to find differences. Although, I have never caught either of them, I then try. if they are available, Doodle or Ed Night.

Quantify your results, keep track of your progress. Progress is rarely linear.

Realize that different people have different ways of explaining things and sometimes even use confusing terminalogy.

Learn to look for and understand problems,
Examples:
I suck at Fuji, the final sector contains many camber changes, many taking place under braking and acceleration, understanding why and how to mitigate these problems allows me to suck a little less.
I am impatient at Monza, I have problems turning the car enough at the chicanes. Understanding this forces me to maximize the use of the track (as you should usually do) and slow down a little more for the chicanes.

Learn that things are sometimes as they appear and sometimes not.
If memory serves, one of the leaders at the Honda Spa challenge was down to 35 MPH in the first turn, a full 5MPH slower than I was at the same point on the track, yet he was a half a second ahead of me by the end of the straight.
By being faster at one point, I was actuallly slower overall.
The second(?) turn at High Speed Ring, where the fastest way is over the green next to the wall.
The green appeared to me for the longest time to be flat and I could not bring myself to use it as my mind
insisted that I would lose the banking and crash into 'Barry R'. At some point in time, I viewed it at a different
angle and realized that it was banked. Still very close to the barrier, but relatively safe. It was not how it appeared.


This is true of results, as well. Learn that sometimes things are just harder for some people.
Don't look at just one metric for improvement.
Three specific examples of my results.
TT#92 Trial Mountain Reverse
Time Difference to number 1, 2.41%, not very good. Place 738 in the world, pretty good.
TT#93 Red Bull Ring - Wet
Time Difference to number 1, 2.47%, not very good. Place 858 in the world, pretty good.
Time Trial #82 Le Mans
Time Difference to number 1, 2.02%, better than above. Place 1361 in the world, worse than above.

Hope this helps.

 

[Mike Hamilton]

Great topic.

I fell same of the author this post.

Practice, practice but not viewed improves.

Same here.

It took me maybe 2 (?) hours to get Gold on the Eiger CE with the Alfa 4C. I thought i should give it a try after i read everywhere that it is one of the more easy CEs in GT7.

Also I enjoy driving stock/non-racing cars so much. The CEs are never with stock cars. Does anyone remember the old „best motoring“ videos? Supra, 996, GT-R, RX7 etc. on Tsukuba? These are my favourite races 😀 Unfortunately always against the not so good AI… so i probably do not practice/improve that much.

 

[Mafio]

Play with the limits. The good thing about GT being a video game, there is no harmful and/or expensive repercussions for carshing. So test the limits. Eff it. Take that corner full send, you might find the car can do it or you may not need to brake as hard/early. Thats how you lose the half seconds and such.

 

[shadow0460]

I can speak to tuning, as I'm better at building and maintaining stuff than I am driving, this includes model race cars.
At first for me grip was everything. That meant sticky tires, ditching weight, and a ton of down force at the expense of speed, acceleration, and fuel. You'll develop your own style, mine right now will still prioritize grip and control, but I can tune for speed at the expense of more difficult control than some other tuners.
Learn what everything does and how that translates on track. Study up a little in the cars and engines, learning things like less moving mass = higher red line, purpose of NOx and an intercooler, turbo vs supercharge or normal aspiration, etc. One of the biggest things is learning suspension. It interacts with tires and down force and in GT7 may be affected by the size of tires you've put on the car. Smaller sidewalls and racing tires require higher natural frequency, larger sidewalls and sport or comfort tires are the opposite. The more you allow the car body to roll the smoother lateral forces are applied to the tires. You can run some negative camber to let the car roll up onto the outer tires but this reduces tire life and straight line traction. Toe is set to do two things: one, to counter the inherent stretching of suspension components and two to bring the back end around a bit faster under high G force. Ride height gives the car somewhere to go instead of making the suspension and locking something up but it increases drag and unwanted lift.
On the driveline, lower differential numbers increase the chances one wheel will spin under power or slide under braking. Higher numbers increase the chances the driveline will induce a loss of traction by simply locking up. They can also increase tire wear. Gears close together give better acceleration but lower top speed and can increase fuel usage. Some engines work best in the low RPM range, others in the high range, and some work equally well regardless of RPM. Try to tune your car to keep the engine in its preferred range. Rotaries tend to like spinning fast where big American V8's have a bunch of low end torque but will decimate your fuel supply if revved over 4,000 RPM.
Downforce is a bit simple. More means lower top speed and more fuel used, less means higher speed and less grip. The effects vary directly with speed, if you want increased grip at low speed add ballast.
Quite a few of the odds and ends add horsepower at the cost of fuel economy. Brakes aren't terribly noticeable but run the highest grade you can given PP restraints.