"Best Hot-Hatch" Round One: VOTE Now!

  • Thread starter Thread starter YSSMAN
  • 84 comments
  • 3,490 views

VOTE FOR BEST HOT-HATCH


  • Total voters
    54
  • Poll closed .
-> My pick would be the Civic, especially the EK-chassis '98 Spec Type-R. It has the perfect balance of power, handling, and reliability of a econo-car. Plus its a looker too! Too bad the [DC2 & DC5] Integra Type-R wasn't on the list.

ek9.jpg.w300h225.jpg


(:
 
Yeah, it's too bad the Integ and RSX weren't on the list. But they are coupes, not hatchbacks, as labelled by Honda and Acura.
 
A summation of my feelings thus far:

The voting distrobution seems to be a bit predictable. Thus far it is looking as though it will come down to the following:

- Civic CRX/Si/Type-R
- Renaultsport Clio 192
- Focus SVT/RS/ST
- GTI
- 3 MPS

Given that many Americans don't have the Clio, it is a tough vote to make for many of us, and depending on our tastes, votes will get split up pretty evenly between the "world" cars here.

I think those of us who are a bit more sophisticated and look for the "feel" or history of a car are more likely to go for the GTI, while hot-heads looking for balls-to-the-wall performance may be more apt to look for the 3 MPS or Clio 182. The rest? Well, we all know how I feel about Honda sometimes...

---

Me? I'm still pushing for GTI power. I just can't think of many cars that have the same ability to be two completely different cars all at once. Okay, the 3-series sits on that list too, but there still aren't many that can do the same things.

keef
EDIT: Okay, I've read my post, and I've made my decision. As I was writing I realized I couldn't come up with much that I truly loved about the GTI. I've never driven one, but I can imagine--electronic throttle, electronic steering, light cable shifter, high seating position. I threw that choice out.

You may be surprised by how wrong you are there. The throttle response is like any other car out there, as many more automakers are going electronic these days, so that isn't a problem. The steering is weighted nicely, and remains very direct, not vague in any sense at all. The shifter is a prime example of German craftsmanship, certainly not as "sharp" as the Aisin unit found in a S2000 or nearly as "direct" as what you would find in a 3-series, but more than enough for any "Hot-Hatch." As for the seating, it is completely customizable. Volkswagen is very proud of their adjustable seats, as they can be adjusted from nearly any direction. I often move mine down low (I'm a little over 6 foot), mid-way back, tighten up the sides and back, and hold-on tight.

...Just because the MKV is a big-boy, it really doesn't mean anything. It can still teach a Honda Civic Si a thing or two about how a cheap sports model should be done, and the GTI leaves plenty of room for performance options as well. Okay, the aftermarket hasn't jumped on-board the 2.0T as quickly as what I had anticipated, but it is getting bigger by the day.

But you cannot deny the legendary MKI and MKII GTI models, as they are as close to driving perfection that I have ever been. Even the "disappointing" MKIII models are worth note, particularly with the VR6, as the "balance" is they key. For me, the MKIV GTI was the model that turned me onto VW-power as a kid. I was watching some older videos from Europe online about the MKIV GTI VR6 with 4MOTION, a predecessor to the R32, and immediately fell in love.

I haven't driven the MKV, but I've had time with the older GTI models. They are great, far-beyond that of any of the Japanese "Hot Hatch" models we get in the US. IMO, the only car that has ever come close to it was the SVT Focus, but all hope was lost when they canceled that. If I keep my hopes up, maybe GM will get in the game with the Astra-turned-Ion in the near-future as well...

01.jpg


GTI POWA!
 
Meh, I guess the MKV must be pretty different than a new Mazda 3 or Cobalt SS. Maybe I shouldn't have used those as comparisons, but those are two of few other cars I've driven with an an electronic throttle and all that.

I must say, I got in that SS, stomped the gas to the floor and let go as quick as I could. Then the revs went up to 2000. I looked at my cousin--before I'd even shut the door--and said "This car sucks." But I pressed on, just to see how fast it was. I have the same feeling about the 3.

I've driven both cars for a total of at least 40 hours, and I still haven't mastered rev-matching ot driving smooth and slow. I just can't do it. I can in my Sol, and even in my dad's manual Ranger, but not the new cars. I hate electronic throttles with a passion, and that fact alone was enough to sway my vote.



Honda vvvvvvvvvvVVVVTEC!!
 
Just to add to a bit of the wildness, my Dad (to whom two of the family GLH's are credited) heard about our debate and wanted to chime in with two of his other favorites.

0308_05z+1986_renault_r5_turbo2+front_left_view.jpg


the infamous Renault R5 Turbo, with its mid-mounted pushrod turbo four and wicked rally heritage.

1620_auto_crossing_1.jpg


and the 140hp Cosworth Vega Twin Cam, which predated the GTi as a hot compact and to this day is a stomper in autocross, rallying, and club racing.
 
0308_05z+1986_renault_r5_turbo2+front_left_view.jpg


the infamous Renault R5 Turbo, with its mid-mounted pushrod turbo four and wicked rally heritage.

Holy smoke!

I completely forgot this baby!
It would have just edged my nomination over the Megane had I remembered it.

My thanks to your dad!
 
I think that falls into the same category as the Clio V6, as for the Vega, that doesn't seem to much like a hot hatch to me, if it was then we may well have been free to include to Sagaris then.
 
But the topic is about best Hot hatch, that's no hot hatch. Not that it matters I guess.
 
I think that falls into the same category as the Clio V6, as for the Vega, that doesn't seem to much like a hot hatch to me, if it was then we may well have been free to include to Sagaris then.

The Vega was built off a cheap family car which was a requirement.

Actually the Vega was a cheap family car, the Cosworth versions were the only ones worth anything.

Anyways Omni GLH ftw!

 
Yeah but it's more a coupe that has a hatch like the Sagaris from the look of it. By the general definition of the term hot hatch, the Sagaris is both hot, and it has a hatch. However I would not class it as a hot hatch. I'll admit that I don't know much about the Vega but it looks like it's more of a lesser powered sports coupe than hot hatch, maybe tomorrow I'll look it up if I remember.
 
The TT is a coupe that happens to have a hatch, like the Integra, Camaro, older Mustangs, the Cayman, the Viper, the Corvette...
 
The TT is a coupe that happens to have a hatch, like the Integra, Camaro, older Mustangs, the Cayman, the Viper, the Corvette...


but the TT is based off a hot hatch chassis. If you want to know what a MK6 golf gti will drive like go test drive the TT MK2, as thats the chassis' it will be using.
 
but the TT is based off a hot hatch chassis. If you want to know what a MK6 golf gti will drive like go test drive the TT MK2, as thats the chassis' it will be using.
But does the TT have the form of a Hot-Hatch? No. It is a coupe which has a hatchback, it doesn't matter if it shares the same platform as a Golf. Audi market it as a coupe, not a hot-hatch.

Voted for the Golf GTi, as it blends performance with subtle styling.
 
But does the TT have the form of a Hot-Hatch? No. It is a coupe which has a hatchback, it doesn't matter if it shares the same platform as a Golf. Audi market it as a coupe, not a hot-hatch.

Voted for the Golf GTi, as it blends performance with subtle styling.

Im not trying to argue a case for the TT being in this poll. Im just saying certain cars such as the octavia dont belong here.
 
I went for the Lotus Sunbeam. I do love my old school stuff and that coupled with rear drive and the fact that it must have been mental to buy something that quick in the 70s swayed me from my nomination of the 106 GTI. I may have agreed with the rallye comment but haven't driven one so couldn't say.

Edit: Posted this yesterday but something must have gone wrong as it's not here.
 
Im not trying to argue a case for the TT being in this poll. Im just saying certain cars such as the octavia dont belong here.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. It doesn't have any votes, as the Civic is running away with this one...

EDIT: Standing thus far (A little more than two hours to go):

1) Honda Civic CRX/Si/Type-R
2) Renaultsport Clio 182
3) Volkswagen GTI
4) Mazda 3 MPS
5) Ford Focus SVT/ST/RS
 
We aren't fanboys. I guess youjust have to experience a 210 hp, 2300 lb beast for yourself. The vibration, the noise, the speed, the rpms, the handling... Especially the noise. Just makes the hair on your neck stand up, ya know? I guess those sensations just appeal to more people. And of course, nobody actually knows how VTEC works, but damn does it! :lol:
 
We aren't fanboys. I guess youjust have to experience a 210 hp, 2300 lb beast for yourself. The vibration, the noise, the speed, the rpms, the handling... Especially the noise. Just makes the hair on your neck stand up, ya know? I guess those sensations just appeal to more people. And of course, nobody actually knows how VTEC works, but damn does it! :lol:

Well, actually, I know... VTEC just means that no matter how highly strung your engine is, it's still driveable at low rpms, because you can run the car in street trim and valving (off-VTEC) and in race valve-timing and lift trim (on-VTEC). It doesn't make the VTEC engine more powerful than non-VTEC engines, it just makes it more streetable than a regular engine tuned to the same power would be.

While I can't argue with the motorbike-like madness of a B or K engined Honda ***seriously, it's exactly like a motorbike, no torque, tons of understeer... :lol: ...just ribbing... I usually enjoy myself when driving one of these... unless it's in traffic***, the Ford Focus set is all about handling, and that's where my vote went.

Nahhh... I'm just a Ford fanboy... :lol: :lol: :lol: ...too bad there aren't many of us out here... I think this poll should go into round two voting, just like the old ones did.
 
I really don't see the fuss about the Type-R, well at least not the last type-R anyway, they wern't as quick as a Clio 182 on a track, they wern't as usable daily as a Clio 182 on a road, and they were more expensive to own and run.
 
I really don't see the fuss about the Type-R, well at least not the last type-R anyway, they wern't as quick as a Clio 182 on a track, they wern't as usable daily as a Clio 182 on a road, and they were more expensive to own and run.

Id argue the more expensive to own and run bit.

With the clio you either got a "good" one, or a "bad" one. Thats how bad the build quality was. And if you got a "bad" one most people would vow to never buy a renault again.

To be completely honest would you take a risk with the renault? Bits rattling and interior trim falling off, reliability issues etc?

I would play it save and go with the Type-R.

Also the renaults didnt hold their value, you can pick them up real cheap, the type-r's faired better.

When looking at the car overall and not just performance in mind the clio should only be in the top 5 in my opinion.
 
The last Type-R was, admittedly, a let down compared to the previous versions, with its simpler suspension. Most were of the opinion that the engine was the better part of the package.

The new one, I'm unsure... a torsion beam rear end? The front suspension on the new Civic is somehwat impressive compared to the previous one (guess they've figured out how to do McPhersons, finally), but a torsion beam? Granted Renault's figured out how to exploit it, but Honda's got a lot of catching up to do... :(

But still, the Type-R name carries a sort of romance for those who aren't so biased as to laugh at the mere name... It really is a four-wheeled motorbike... and a very pleasantly reliable one, at that.

Still voted for the Focus RS, though... about as hardcore as a "wrong wheel drive" vehicle can get and still pass as road-legal.
 
Id argue the more expensive to own and run bit.

With the clio you either got a "good" one, or a "bad" one. Thats how bad the build quality was. And if you got a "bad" one most people would vow to never buy a renault again.

To be completely honest would you take a risk with the renault? Bits rattling and interior trim falling off, reliability issues etc?

I would play it save and go with the Type-R.

Also the renaults didnt hold their value, you can pick them up real cheap, the type-r's faired better.

When looking at the car overall and not just performance in mind the clio should only be in the top 5 in my opinion.
If you wanted to play it safe you shouldn't go for either. Price wise, Civics depreciate faster than Clio's, regarding the trim, the trim in the renalutsport Clio's doesn't fall apart, the reliability of them I don't know but you make it sound like everything falls to pieces in them, it doesn't. The safe chouce would probably be a Leon or the Mazda 3, including costs of ownership and reliability ect. It is certainly not the Civic Type-R, the only aspect the Civic Type-R is better than the renaultsport Clio is probably reliability, the fact that the Clio beats it at everything else, including being a good daily car which the last Type-R most certainly wasn't, kind of tips things away from the Type-R imo.
 
Reliability and Mazda don't go well together... and this is from a Mazda owner... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, they're not horribly unreliable, but they're not the kind of car you buy if you want headache-free motoring. :D
 
Well the Leon then, but I haven't heared of many reliability issues on the Mazda 3, remember it's a cross platform chassis too.
 
Reliability and Mazda don't go well together... and this is from a Mazda owner... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, they're not horribly unreliable, but they're not the kind of car you buy if you want headache-free motoring. :D

Although having said that, my dads 323F V6 has run for 16 years and hasn't put a foot wrong.
 
Back