Best tuners overall

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CSLACR's Notes are very good and clear. I have read them over many times, But I never said to myself "Oh, all I have to do is lower the rear camber or adjust the toe settings like this to get that god damn oversteer I was trying to find all along" Its obvious to others I bet, I just never looked at certain things like that.


I also think eclipse has the most accurate description of what Toe adjustments do, more so than anything I have read anywhere, Even though its simple.


In a GT500 car on R3's for instance. (I know I know its just popular online)

I'm on a controller and once I move the stick all the way to one side, thats all I can do to turn the car. I Choose when to brake, when to turn in (smoothly of course) And when to apply throttle, And then its just out of my hands from there. I was always reading "more camber means more cornering grip" So I was just like YEA WOOO 2.4 front 2.0 in the back massive grip I will corner faster than everyone!!!!

Nope...

1.2 camber in the rear and the correct toe settings are magical.... I'm talking half a second magical even with some mistakes.

I just feel like I overcame a massive obstacle in tuning that I didn't even know was there. Makes me want to drive my CSL again.


I read over eclipsee's notes and it's basically how I set up my cars as well, for the most part. I would caution you in regards to his notes on Ride Height. Since 2.09 what he wrote doesn't really apply all that much. For example, Max/Max can give you a ton of time in certain situations, even though it makes little sense.

Funny thing about Camber eh? Really isn't the magical grip enhancer some people tout it out to be. Dunno if you know but, More Camber = Worse braking :).
 
Yea i ignored the ride height part entirely, Or atleast the min max part. I think it still applies, but not in the extremes it used to. Somone correct me if I'm wrong. Do TT winners still do the Max/Min ride height thing?

And yea I knew braking suffered from high camber, but once again I was like YEA WOOO super grip in the corners I don't need to brake as much so who cares!!!!!

And again... Nope.

lol, what an idiot I was.

P.S. I just reread your post, Are you saying Max/Max and so on ride heights are still beneficial sometimes?
 
Yea i ignored the ride height part entirely, Or atleast the min max part. I think it still applies, but not in the extremes it used to. Somone correct me if I'm wrong. Do TT winners still do the Max/Min ride height thing?

And yea I knew braking suffered from high camber, but once again I was like YEA WOOO super grip in the corners I don't need to brake as much so who cares!!!!!

And again... Nope.

lol, what an idiot I was.

P.S. I just reread your post, Are you saying Max/Max and so on ride heights are still beneficial sometimes?

Max/Max yup, It is sometimes.
 
Could you give me an example (Car spec/track) so I could try it out? It would probably improve my understanding on when to do what a bit more.
 
Could you give me an example (Car spec/track) so I could try it out? It would probably improve my understanding on when to do what a bit more.

Generally, I increase RH in proportion to how bumpy a track may be...For a specific example..well I've only used Max/Max on one occasion and that was yesterday. I was tuning a Veyron for a potential Touge event. Toscana track, lots of elevation, lots of camber etc. It seems to me Max/Max gives a car better acceleration out of corners. I'm still not sure how it helps, it just does. Experiment I guess.
 
Min/max is the new max/max.
Tuning has become much more involving now that ride height is normalish. Shame they nerfed the effects or I'd be happy as a clam. :lol:

My guide needs updates.
 
Ride height is the same as it's always been, except online is fixed.

Generally, I increase RH in proportion to how bumpy a track may be...For a specific example..well I've only used Max/Max on one occasion and that was yesterday. I was tuning a Veyron for a potential Touge event. Toscana track, lots of elevation, lots of camber etc. It seems to me Max/Max gives a car better acceleration out of corners. I'm still not sure how it helps, it just does. Experiment I guess.

veyron has always gone better with more ride height.
 
I just made a test track and set my favorites up with a good all around set up. A general set up should be good enough to put you on the podium.
 
lol these threads are always funny. The best is gonna be whoever matches your driving style. You have to test lots out and see who's works best. Any garages you see on the first page of this section a lot are gonna be the preferred tunes.
 
The best tune for a certain person yes. The "best tune" for a given event will be the one that can achieve the fastest times, even if only 5 people are capable of driving it, its still the "best tune" In my opinion.
 
For the time it takes to find a tune the works for you, you're better off tuning for yourself.
 
^ agreed, I love tuning partially bc I can make a car fun to drive and 9 times out of ten the person that can drive it to its potential will be a few seconds faster than me.
 
Voodoovaj
For the time it takes to find a tune the works for you, you're better off tuning for yourself.

I hear ya. I've taken tunes in the past and by the time I tweaked it, it didn't even resemble the tune I started with.
 
The "best" tuner(s) is(are) someone(those) who can tune any car for any person, in any situation i.e. "tyre wear" or lap time, loose or planted feel etc etc.

They can mould a guestimated / starter setup, in any situation and for any car, to the needs and wants of any driver.

Lap times are irrelevant.

They also do this mainly through their own research and testing, with the cherry on top being help from others when they hit a brick wall with one or two variables in certain situations - NOT blatantly copying someone else's entire "setup" methods or techniques, or taking someone else's tune, changing a few variables by a small amount and re-branding it as their tune.

Or, trawling this tuning section and copying/trying everything everyone else does and then use a mish-mash of others to create their own.
 
The "best" tuner(s) is(are) someone(those) who can tune any car for any person, in any situation i.e. "tyre wear" or lap time, loose or planted feel etc etc.

They can mould a guestimated / starter setup, in any situation and for any car, to the needs and wants of any driver.

Lap times are irrelevant.

They also do this mainly through their own research and testing, with the cherry on top being help from others when they hit a brick wall with one or two variables in certain situations - NOT blatantly copying someone else's entire "setup" methods or techniques, or taking someone else's tune, changing a few variables by a small amount and re-branding it as their tune.

Or, trawling this tuning section and copying/trying everything everyone else does and then use a mish-mash of others to create their own.

Hate to disagree...ok no I don't...but I do disagree..:sly: Mostly with the part about copying and finding your own interpretations. The number of tuning variables that work is pretty limited, especially when you consider the variables that have major effects on the car. Combine that with tuners that have similar equipment and there will always be a tendency in a large enough group that tuning variables will tend to congregate in a very limited range and thus it can often appear that someone is "copying" someone else when in fact they just independently arrived at the same result.

I can recall many times looking at other tunes and saying to myself, "That's pretty much exactly what I would have done" which is why I try to avoid looking at what anyone else is doing . But when I did look at Praiano's LSD settings for example, I can see he has exactly the same LSD philosophy and feel as me because many of his LSD settings are the same as mine on similar cars..and by same I mean identical. What works for him, also works works for me. Did I copy him? No, I arrived at my settings over many months of trial and error and reading stuff here on LSD theory, especially [post=4641242]Motor City Hami's LSD Tuning Guide[/post]. Anyone who reads this particular info, does some testing and agrees with the theory as presented, will end up in the same place as me or close enough. Am I copying Hami because I subscribe to his interpretation of the LSD? Is someone copying me if he ends up close to my settings?

Of all the cars I drove in the current F.I.T.T. RaceCar Shootout and really enjoyed because they suited my driving style, when I checked their tunes, they were all fairly typical settings I would use in setting up the car given the parameters of the competition. I drove a couple of versions of the same car and though the tunes also looked pretty close in that while some of the numbers were different, the ratios and their relation to each other were the same...and some of the numbers were identical or just off by one adjustment point. Did they copy each other? No, they were presented with the same car/track/tire combination and arrived at similar interpretations because that intepretation works for that car and they are both good tuners so it makes perfect sense that they would. A couple of small changes here and there and the majority of their suspension setup would be nearly identical.
 
I disagree anytime someone says lap times are irrelevant in a racing game.
The whole best tuner bit is either a cockfight/pissing contest or a pat everyone else on the back marathon, neither of which interest me.

But in racing the lap times always matter.
 
I think he was taking a shot directly at one Epinephrine filled tuner who drives every tune available for a car before crafting his own.

Oh good, I thought maybe I was just being vain.

Clearly, instead of making sure my tunes are worth consideration, I should blindly add settings that may be sub-par to an already existing option. Everyone loves wasting their time with tunes that suck because the creator couldn't be bothered to run laps in the competitions car, only to find out that someone else's tune blows theirs out of the water, rendering it completely useless. As the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. Why find out your tune sucks compared to the competition when you can just live happily ever after thinking you're awesome.
 
I think he was taking a shot directly at one Epinephrine filled tuner who drives every tune available for a car before crafting his own.

I see. Can someone direct me to Highlandor's Tuning Garage? He sounds like he must be an expert tuner. Or maybe his Shootout tunes? Or maybe his TT tunes? I don't see any links in his sig :rolleyes:
 
I see. Can someone direct me to Highlandor's Tuning Garage? He sounds like he must be an expert tuner. Or maybe his Shootout tunes? Or maybe his TT tunes? I don't see any links in his sig :rolleyes:

How very strange....

Let's see now... (page 2 - post 25)

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6169928#post6169928

Ha ha...the dreaded reversed ride height debate..I thought it was dead and buried but...lol..

In short, I agree with the statement that the visual effects of ride height are correct, but the effect on the handling of the car is reversed compared to real life. The bigger question is how to use this effect, if at all, in tuning a car.

For me, it is the very last thing I use to tune. I'd say probably 80% of the cars in my garage have equal ride heights. A few months back Highlandor had a discussion about bascic tuning set up. That is the exact same method I've been using for months but I'll refer to it as the "Highlandor Method"...lol. Perhaps Highlandor recalls the thread and can post a link, I don't have it.

The Highlandor Method, which concurs with the way you'd set up a suspension in real life, basically asserts that you begin tuning a car by setting up the springs, dampers and ARB's relative to the weight distribution of the particular car and each other. In very brief, if a car is 60/40 you'd set the front springs at 60% of their max and the rears at 40%, dampers on the same relative scale, and ARB's in reverse relation to this. If you do this when setting up a car, most of the time you'll find it's well balanced or fairly close to being so. Then use the toe, camber, LSD etc. to fine tune the cars behaviour to suit your driving style. You can also adjust the springs/shocks/ARB to achieve more grip, more suspension travel etc. but do so while maintaining the relative balance between the elements.

...........

...........

Taken a knock on the head recently have we? Seems like your memory isn't too good...

FYI - try HaB-Racing.com or other sites like GTRP (they have the calculator based on this method too). Then maybe speak to guys from places like PureGT, Varrikassourra, GTSC - they have all used this method too, many of them ditching "tuners" from here in favour of the "Highlandor" method.

Which funnily enough was good enough for

I've been using for months
 
Perhaps you misread the nuance there....

"That is the exact same method I've been using for months but I'll refer to it as the "Highlandor Method"...lol"

I've been using it for months but I'll refer to it as the Highlandor Method means that independent of you and before I ever read anything about it online I was using a similar method to tune spring rates but in spite of that I'll call it the Highlander Method. That's why there is a "but" and an "lol" in there.

In other words, in spite of the fact that I'd been doing it pretty much since the beginning of the game and could just as easily call it "Johnny's Method" , I'll call it Highlandors Method. Otherwise I would have said, "I have been using Highlandor's Method after I read about it here on GTP". ...which as you can see, I did not.

Make sense now?

Still doesn't answer the question of where your garage is and your book of super tunes here on GTPlanet. If you feel so strongly about your methods, enter some competitions and blow everyone away. Anyone can spout theories but the proof is in the pudding, and like others, I don't believe lap times are irrelevant, otherwise the game wouldn't have that little counting thingy in the upper right hand corner...:sly:
 
I'm not sure what's worse; your reading comprehension, or the fact that you thought a tuning trick that no longer applies to the game physics would prove your point.
 
Wow, so much testosterone in this thread. Seems like someone's been taking their "Ageless Male" suppliments.:lol:
 
I'm not sure what's worse; your reading comprehension, or the fact that you thought a tuning trick that no longer applies to the game physics would prove your point.

Who? Me?

ignorance is bliss.

So is staying in a comfort zone and not spreading wings to experience something different, especially if it's more difficult than what that person is currently doing.

Why find out your tune sucks compared to the competition when you can just live happily ever after thinking you're awesome.

You don't need to use/try other's setups to know this, quite often, from racing and looking at how other's cars are behaving, their tyre wear and laptimes throughout the race can tell you a hell of alot.

I never said this theory was the best, or "awesome" - all I've ever done is said that it works, which it did, for a long time until 2.08 & 2.09 came along.

Reason for being so volitile is because I know what I was doing was proven time and time again to work in a more difficult environment (compared to the the enviroment the people giving me grief were used to), by many people who weren't my friends or members. So their views were impartial

Yet I had to put up with so many mariokart racers on here who didn't have a clue about tuning and setups because they wouldn't leave their offline comfort zone where almost "anything" 'worked' and try to understand the far more difficult 'world' of balancing setups online, for all cars in all situations, without the use of glitches like max/min ride heights and 'cheat' tuning with ballast being used as a quick fix to get balance.

Funny, I thought this was a racing game.

Yep, and pre 2.08/2,09 some people did actual racing that meant factors like tyre wear were just as important, if not more so, than laptimes.

Many websites would organise their racing so that you would need to take this into account with either your driving or setup for each race.

By "maxing" out a setup or setting up for laptime alone, you'd have no tyres left for the last part of the race, meaning you needed to pit. Those who paced themselves or built a better all round balanced setup, would simply keep on going and have no need for a pit stop, easily beating the "faster" guys who did have to pit.

Even if the faster guys didn't have to pit, their laptimes would be significantly reduced near the end of the race and this would expose and exaggerate problems with their setups - meaning greater chance of very costly mistakes.

Whereas those setups tuned for race distance and balance, meant the drop in laptime and car balance/grip was far less, so at the end of the race these guys could still be putting in fast laps, safely and consistently.

Pre 2.08 - building setups for ALL cars in the game, that are balanced and consistent throughout the tyre life of the car, online, was a hell of alot more difficult than just putting in a setup for a hot lap(s) offline.

Low tyres, especiallly if a setup was out of balance, could cause cars to become almost undriveable online.

Which is why laptimes were irrelevant, getting your car sorted for race distance (not 3 lap / 5 minute races) was far more important.

Did they copy each other? No, they were presented with the same car/track/tire combination and arrived at similar interpretations because that intepretation works for that car and they are both good tuners so it makes perfect sense that they would. A couple of small changes here and there and the majority of their suspension setup would be nearly identical.

Yes..

But when someone is trying something they ADMIT they CAN'T do, then come up with something very similiar to what someone who CAN do - that's a whole different situation.

Look at the attempts of tuning online by those who couldn't tune online, setups were so diverse, completely all over the place.

So to come up with something very similiar as someone who could tune online - that isn't a coincidence.

Reason why I don't bother with these competitions in this sub forum - because they have always been flawed - biggest example being "steering sensitivity" not being taken into account for so long.

One of the most obvious factors why a setup will work for one guy but not for another.

Add to this "driving style", 'planted' guys hate 'loose' setups and vica versa and just for good measure - look at the huge differences between groups of similiar cars (in terms of 'feel', balance/grip and speed), then anyone who knows about ethics in testing would shake their head in disbelief these factors had not been recognised from day 1 in these "tests".

Lastly, the attitude - when I first wrote about my theory I did so on different websites, only here on GTP did I get attitude and grief. Some guys were cool about it, others weren't.

I offered to show the theory to anyone, I offered everyone the opportunity to experience this - only NOMIS and RJ from here accepted the invite and spent time in my lobby talking about the theory.

Others just kept giving out the giref.

Why would anyone want to setup shop in an enviroment like that? So I went elsewhere where people were alot more accomodating and where the theory was far more relevant - online in organised racing, until the last 2 updates.

Proof - speak to the people who left GTP and went to other websites who used this for the past year.

Maybe you should be asking how come so many people doing organised online racing avoided this Sub forum, and still choose to do so.

There are hundreds, of not thousands of GT sites out there, some real gems with VERY good racers and tuners on them - yet, they all refuse to come to this sub-forum, allfor the same reason too.

Judging by my experience of this sub forum, it's easy to see why.

And if any of you lot could be bothered to take off your blinkers and spread your wings, you'll see for yourself.

But that's never gonna happen is it?

Far too easy to stick together and gang up on anyone coming here that tries
to show the Brave New World that lives outside this sub forum.
 
I think most of tire wear, or avoiding tire wear is driving style. A faster setup often has more grip on the used racing line, so simply slowing down a touch also works. If you have some absolute crazy setup sure it could hurt tire wear. Most people don't do that though, or at least the ones you are arguing with here.

I can relate to what your saying. But lap times matter, period.

Far too easy to stick together and gang up on anyone coming here that tries
to show the Brave New World that lives outside this sub forum.

I believe this comment is correct in many ways..
 
I agree that at times GTP is a crap shoot. I don't believe that GTP has extra special dense people that are extra close-minded.
I believe those are everywhere and if you aren't seeing them, they're just hiding. ;)

Reason why I don't bother with these competitions in this sub forum - because they have always been flawed - biggest example being "steering sensitivity" not being taken into account for so long.
Steering sensitivity is a personal choice, not only is mandating one laughable imo, but it's like telling someone what FFB they need to set their wheel to.
No thanks, I'll never test again, and you can't enforce it in any way. (Would be my response)


People like different stuff H, and the easy way through life is not caring how they like it. Maybe your theory was perfect, it doesn't matter, nobody has to use it. It's only someone's loss if they don't right?

Trying to chase people down and "prove" they stole your theory, or their theory isn't legitimate, or whatever else isn't ever going to get you anywhere.
Last I checked it looked like Praiano might be setting his shocks like mine, does that mean he stole my idea? I doubt it, and even if he did, the difference is, I don't care.

No "tuning method" is "mine", because out of 9 million players I'm positive it's also someone else's idea. ;)
 
All of our tunes are made with the best Logitech has to offer.. G25 and G27.
 

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