Blu-ray vs. HD DVD Discussion Thread

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G.T
I just got my free copy of Casino Royal.

I'm impressed with the sound more than anything. It's so clear, the the base is so much more accurate! I thought the picture was going to be the most improved, but it just isn't. I'm very impressed! You have to experience it to believe it.
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What is the display output setting on your PS3 set at, and what display are you using?

I see a big difference between my Blu-ray DVDs and SD DVDs, but if the PS3 is downscaling them to 720x480 (as it currently doesn't support 720p for BD movies), you wont see much of any difference, other than differences in the masters themselves, and the better compression methods.

If you have a 720p TV, set the PS3 to output 1080i. If you have a 720p display that doesn't properly deinterlace, even when given a 1080i signal, you are going to still lose over 70% of the original resolution of the images.
 
Digital-Nitrate
What is the display output setting on your PS3 set at, and what display are you using?

I see a big difference between my Blu-ray DVDs and SD DVDs, but if the PS3 is downscaling them to 720x480 (as it currently doesn't support 720p for BD movies), you wont see much of any difference, other than differences in the masters themselves, and the better compression methods.

If you have a 720p TV, set the PS3 to output 1080i. If you have a 720p display that doesn't properly deinterlace, even when given a 1080i signal, you are going to still lose over 70% of the original resolution of the images.
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I think he just meant the audio improvement impressed him more than the video improvement.
 
Digital-Nitrate
What is the display output setting on your PS3 set at, and what display are you using?

I see a big difference between my Blu-ray DVDs and SD DVDs, but if the PS3 is downscaling them to 720x480 (as it currently doesn't support 720p for BD movies), you wont see much of any difference, other than differences in the masters themselves, and the better compression methods.

If you have a 720p TV, set the PS3 to output 1080i. If you have a 720p display that doesn't properly deinterlace, even when given a 1080i signal, you are going to still lose over 70% of the original resolution of the images.
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Yeah, I meant I found the sound the biggest improvement. The picture was a significant difference, but the sound was even more so. God knows what uncompressed audio will be like... And yeah - if you set the PS3 to 720p, it changes it to DVD-like quality, so we stuck with 1080i. It looks sharper on the XMB at that setting anyway.

We watched Alien vs Predator the other day as well on Blu-Ray, but Casino Royal looks to be a hell of a lot better!
 
G.T
Yeah, I meant I found the sound the biggest improvement. The picture was a significant difference, but the sound was even more so. God knows what uncompressed audio will be like...
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That may be what you are listening to right now. :)

As I attempted to explain to Harry in the PS3 thread, you can listen to uncompressed "lossless" audio by going to the PS3 settings menu and setting the BD/DVD Audio Output Format to LPCM and the Audio Output Settings to only output PCM.

If you're audio processor supports HDMI then you'll be able to get multi-channel uncompressed lossless PCM audio all the way up to 7.1 @ 192 kHz (as long as your audio processor supports it, and if such a track exist - most are at 5.1 @ 48 kHz).

If you do not have support for HDMI, then you can still enjoy the higher quality sound from PCM, but it will be limited to 2 channels @ 48 kHz. This isn't to say you won’t have any surround sound. Dolby PLII (which is commonly included on most multi-channel audio processors) does a remarkable job recreating the surround sound effects.

Obviously they won't be discrete or as specific as you would get with a multi-channel signal, but they get the job done while at the same time offering a significantly better audio quality over Dolby Digital and DTS – which are both “lossy’ forms of compression. Which is also why Dolby Labs and DTS came up with Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD as they are both lossless compression audio codecs - although the only advantage they have over uncompressed PCM is that they take up less space on a disc?

To confirm whether or not you are listening to PCM or just the DD or DTS track, the audio processor/receiver will display the type of incoming signal it is receiving from the PS3. If it says PCM, you are good to go! :)

BTW: There seemed to have been some confusion over the term “lossless” and “lossy” earlier in the PS3 thread, so to better understand how they are used in these formats let me try and give an example that most will immediately understand:
  • ZIP file is a form of “lossless” compression.
  • JPEG is a form of “lossy” compression.
In other words, “lossless” compresses data, but when uncompressed, none of the original data is lost. “Lossy” compresses the data, and loses some of the original data, the amount of loss depends on the type of compression used and how much compression there was.

Oh, and for those wanting to read more on the advantages of PCM over DD & DTS, the following thread on HTF is an easy read that avoids getting overly technical and addresses PS3 users specifically:
(hopefully this will put an end to the heated debate over what is "lossless" audio in terms of these formats, and how one can listen to lossless audio without having HDMI, or a processor that decodes Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD)


And while personally, as much as I really enjoy the quality of PCM audio over DD & DTS, it is the video improvements (higher resolution, color gamut, and contrast) that have me thoroughly hooked on HD video!
 
Digital-Nitrate
If you do not have support for HDMI, then you can still enjoy the higher quality sound from PCM, but it will be limited to 2 channels @ 48 kHz. This isn't to say you wont have any surround sound. Dolby PLII (which is commonly included on most multi-channel audio processors) does a remarkable job recreating the surround sound effects. Obviously they won't be discrete or as specific as you would get with a multi-channel signal, but they get the job done while at the same time offering a significantly better audio quality over Dolby Digital and DTS.
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Does this mean that an audio CD in DPLII sounds better than a video DVD in DTS?
 
FatAssBR
Does this mean that an audio CD in DPLII sounds better than a video DVD in DTS?
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Yes, if the masters are from the same source, and the CD track is uncompressed PCM. That's why SACD and DVD-Audio use PCM. 👍


BTW: I updated my last post with specifics on "Lossless" vs "Lossy" with a link that might be helpful for some.
 
Digital-Nitrate
Yes, if the masters are from the same source, and the CD track is PCM. That's why SACD and DVD-Audio use PCM. 👍


BTW: I updated my last post with specifics on "Lossless" vs "Lossy" with a link that might be helpful for some.
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Audio CDs always use PCM tracks I believe? I mean regular albums sold in stores, not MP3 CDs.

And thanks for the update with the link, I'll check it out. 👍
 
FatAssBR
Audio CDs always use PCM tracks I believe? I mean regular albums sold in stores, not MP3 CDs.
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Yes, but they almost all use compressed PCM tracks.

(I meant to add that to my response - sorry - I often type faster than what I am trying to say ;)
Which is also why I often find myself having to go back and edit my original posts :().

The other problem with most CD's is that they are recorded at such low sampling rates, which also impacts the quality of the sound.

The PCM tracks on all Blu-ray movies are uncompressed. 👍

This is not the case with HD DVD due to its limited disc capacity.
 
Got my free copy of Casino Royale today. The new firmware update 1.70 has fixed the panning issues on the PS3.

Ive noticed that some DVDs look great but others look rubbish, but I never noticed this on the SD TV.
 
Digital-Nitrate
The other problem with most CD's is that they are recorded at such low sampling rates, which also impacts the quality of the sound.
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Are you sure about that? I thought all audio CDs had a sample rate of 44.1Khz, which is part of the standards set by Sony/Philips back in about 1980 when CDs first hit the market.

According to Wikipedia - "The technical format of an audio compact disc (Compact Disc Digital Audio—CDDA) is laid down in a document produced in 1980 by the format's joint creators, Sony and Philips. The document is known colloquially as the "Red Book" after the colour of its cover. The format is a two-channel 16-bit PCM encoding at a 44.1 kHz sampling rate. Four-channel sound is an allowed option within the Red Book format, but has never been implemented."

Can CD audio players handle sample rates other than 44.1Khz or compressed audio? I'm not sure why CD producers would want to use less than 44.1Khz or compress the audio anyway, you can already fit over 70 minutes of audio on a CD using the standard mentioned above.


KM.
 
How is the blueray vs HD war going lately?

Any changes? is blueray still outselling HD easily?
 
Not according to the red fanboys. They're arguing that you can just use Netflix. Then again, if Netflix follows suit (I don't know what their numbers are), that would definitely be another nail.

You have to remember that the fanboys are just as rabid as console fanboys, and will refuse to accept defeat all the way up until the format is officially declared dead by it's own creator, and all production ceases. Until then, they consider any bad news to be either BS or completely unimportant.
 
Jedi2016
Not according to the red fanboys. They're arguing that you can just use Netflix.
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They might not have to. According to the article, 250 stores out of 1450 will carry HD-DVDs. Also, Netflix equivalent, Blockbuster Online will carry HD-DVDs also. But either way, I also think this is a slam dunk for the Blu-ray backers.

You know, I'm not usually into fanboyism(except sports teams, GT, etc.), but I am so glad to hear this news. Just until couple of months ago, I had Xbox/HD-DVD fanboys telling me how HD-DVDs were outselling the Blu-rays, and it was on the way out...... When I told them how Blu-rays were actually outselling HD-DVDs and all, but one (major)studio has pulled their exclusive support for HD-DVD, they actually knew NOTHING about them. Sad, sad, sad.

I'm just hoping for a speedy death to the HD-DVD format. Us, the consumers lose with this dual format nonsense.

P.S. When will Universal come around? :rolleyes:
 
Im with you a6m5 just got another BD movie today, in fact ive yet to watch a HD-DVD movie.
 
Even though the porn industry supports HD DVD, it won't make a difference.
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thats not true.. porn supports Blu ray now-a-days

and uuh .. i think blu ray just won the battle :

Blockbuster to stock Blu-ray (and Blu-ray ONLY)

Does this mean the format wars are over? Well, for Blockbuster, it seems just that. Associated Press just released a statement that Blockbuster will exclusively carry high-def discs in Blu-ray format in 1,450 of their stores. This decision came from an analysis done in 250 branches where they carried both Blu-ray and HD-DVDs. It was found that more than 70% of the consumers rented out Blu-ray discs over HD-DVD. Blockbuster senior VP of merchandising had this to say:


The consumers are sending us a message. [...] I can't ignore what I'm seeing. When you walk into a store and see all this product available in Blu-ray and there is less available on HD DVD, I think the consumer gets that [more studios are releasing films in Blu-ray].


True enough, most major studios are supporting the Blu-ray. Another factor, of course, would be the release of the PlayStation 3, which gave the Blu-ray format a big push in sales. It's now believed that Blockbuster's decision could be the first step in shifting the balance and will allow other retailers to follow suit.

The North American HD-DVD Promotional Group, however, sees Blockbuster's decision as unfounded. Ken Graffeo thinks that basing their move on the Blu-ray flims' success over the first three months of the year was too short-sighted.

Despite it all, Blockbuster will still keep renting out HD-DVDs in their original 250 locations and online. But as it stands, that's 1,450 stores with exclusive Blu-ray, and 250 offering Blu-ray and HD-DVD. Now do the math.
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Marouan Duck Posted that a few posts above, but TBH its good news but this is a sign that HD-DVD camp are pulling bak to save money just in case the war is over.

BBC.co.uk
Sony says shipments of its Blu-ray high definition DVD players in the US could jump sixfold this year, to 600,000.

It attributes the growing demand to some films coming out on its format and not the rival HD DVD technology, according to Bloomberg.

Meanwhile, Toshiba has lowered the sales target for its HD DVD devices in the US to 1 million from 1.8 million.

The battle of next generation DVD formats has been likened to the competition between VHS and Betamax.

Sony's Playstation 3 games consoles come equipped with a Blu-ray drive while Toshiba plans to put HD DVD drives in all its laptop computers next year.

Sony is relying on exclusive films to spur its growth, after selling fewer than 100,000 units in 2006.

Out of the top 20 blockbusters "there were 14 or 15 that were exclusive to Blu-ray", Sony's Randy Waynick told a meeting in San Francisco, according to Bloomberg.

Blu-Ray is also promoted by Matsu****a (Panasonic) in the US.

The 44% cut in predicted sales of HD DVD devices in North America is attributed to a Toshiba executive, quoted by Reuters, who also said the global target would be cut.

"Obviously we are going to have to lower our previous global estimate," Toshiba's Yoshihide Fujii said.
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LINK
 
Looks like MS is making a buy-HDDVD-and-get-5-movies deal for their HD-DVD add-on.

http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/...micConXboxHDDVDPR.mspx?rss_fdn=Press Releases

SAN DIEGO — July 26, 2007 — Today at Comic-Con International 2007, Microsoft Corp. announced it will lower the price of the popular Xbox 360™ HD DVD Player from $199 to $179 ERP (United States only) starting Aug. 1, 2007, and will add five free HD DVD movies for anyone purchasing an Xbox 360 HD DVD Player between Aug. 1 and Sept. 30. In addition, Microsoft further solidified the Xbox 360 as the ultimate high-definition (HD) entertainment platform, with key announcements around the HD DVD launches of “300” from Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group and “Heroes: Season 1” from Universal Studios.
To promote the HD DVD versions of “300” and “Heroes: Season 1,” Microsoft unveiled exclusive content for Xbox LIVE® Marketplace. Xbox LIVE will offer “300” on demand in HD starting Aug. 14, and is working with Warner Bros. at Comic-Con on a Bringing It Home campaign featuring “300” and other Warner Bros. properties. In advance of the street date for the “Heroes: Season 1” HD DVD boxed set, Xbox LIVE members will be able to download for free the show’s pilot episode in high definition for a limited time. Members will also be able to download trailers, teaser scenes and other promotional materials highlighting the “Heroes: Season 1” boxed set on HD DVD.

Already the most affordable high-definition player available, the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player is the best solution for movie lovers seeking HD content in the highest possible resolution. The player’s price reduction to $179 (U.S. ERP) continues to set the bar for value, making the Xbox 360 platform the most affordable solution for consumers seeking the broadest, most compelling selection of next-generation gaming and HD video experiences.
“With the price reduction to $179, the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player continues to be the most affordable way to enjoy high definition,” said Jeff Bell, corporate vice president of Global Marketing, Interactive Entertainment Business, Entertainment and Devices Division at Microsoft. “From the beginning, we set out to offer Xbox 360 owners an unrivaled high-definition experience, with a choice of optical discs on the HD DVD format and digital downloads through Xbox LIVE Marketplace — both of which have a selection of the best content Hollywood has to offer. Today’s announcements around ‘300’ and ‘Heroes: Season 1’ are great examples of how we believe HD content can be offered to consumers.”

In addition to the price drop, Microsoft is extending Toshiba’s highly successful “Perfect Offer” of five free HD DVD discs to Xbox 360 consumers. Previously exclusive to Toshiba HD DVD Players, with the purchase of an Xbox 360 HD DVD Player at the new low price of $179 ERP, consumers can choose five HD DVD titles for free from a selection of 15 popular titles through a mail-in offer. With a retail value of over $140 (U.S.), this promotion makes the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player one of the most compelling offerings for consumers looking to make the leap into HD this holiday season.
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And Target has decided to only carry Blu-ray players this holiday season.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070726/tc_nm/target_bluray_dc;_ylt=AlbXkI6Xz4WohTi6rVWph2EjtBAF

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Target plans to carry only Blu-ray high definition DVD players through the holiday shopping season, a move that boosts the Sony-backed technology and may deal a blow to rival HD-DVD.

In a statement on Thursday, Sony Corp. (6758.T) said that Target (NYSE:TGT - news) will exclusively carry Blu-ray players "at least through the holiday season" and will also expand its inventory of Blu-ray discs.

The move begins in October with Target's sale and promotion of Sony's BDP-S300 unit, which sells for about $500.

It was the second major retailer in as many months to throw its weight behind Blu-ray in the industrywide standards war reminiscent of VHS and Betamax. Blockbuster, the largest U.S. provider of home movie entertainment, in June set plans to line its shelves with Blu-ray DVDs, saying that Blu-ray rentals are "significantly outpacing HD DVD rentals."
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Raitziger
Actually porn is still biggest seller if you look dvd and vhs sales.(sorry i have no statictics to show but it was said on latest AV-podacast at www.avforums.com)
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I think anyone would have a very hard time finding any official data that supports their opinion, but if someone does, I'd certainly like to see how they came up with those figures.

In addition, if they can find accurate sales figures for porn titles on HD DVD I think they would find those titles account for less than 1% of all HD DVD sales.

In other words, the porn industry, even if “they” won’t admit it, is not going to impact the success of any HD format.





Duċk;2725326
And Target has decided to only carry Blu-ray players this holiday season.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070726/tc_nm/target_bluray_dc;_ylt=AlbXkI6Xz4WohTi6rVWph2EjtBAF
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Rumor has it that a much bigger retailer in terms of electronics and players will also soon stop carrying HD DVD players... although they might only be using that as a way to negotiate a better deal with Toshiba.
 
I'm
censored.gif
pissed that I fould out AFTER I made a no brainer decision to go with Blu Ray that there are movies that are exclusive to HD DVD... I guess I won't be seeing Chronicles of Riddick on Blu Ray any time soon. :rolleyes:

Someone needs to be shot for this. :mad:
 
Add to the confusion time, Paramount will now only be supporting HD-DVD, except those films directed by Steven Spielberg.

Viacom
LOS ANGELES, Aug. 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Paramount Pictures, a unit of Viacom Inc. (NYSE: VIA and VIA.B) and DreamWorks Animation SKG (NYSE: DWA), each announced today that they will exclusively support the next-generation HD DVD format on a worldwide basis. The exclusive HD DVD commitment will include all movies distributed by Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Pictures, Paramount Vantage, Nickelodeon Movies and MTV Films, as well as movies from DreamWorks Animation, which are distributed exclusively by Paramount Home Entertainment.

The companies each said that the decision to distribute exclusively in the HD DVD format resulted from an extensive evaluation of current market offerings, which confirmed the clear benefits of HD DVD, particularly its market-ready technology and lower manufacturing costs. Paramount Home Entertainment will launch its exclusive HD DVD program with the release of the blockbuster comedy hit "Blades of Glory" on August 28th and follow with two of the biggest grossing movies of the year "Transformers" and "Shrek the Third". These three titles alone represent more than $1.5 billion in box office ticket sales worldwide.

"The combination of Paramount and DreamWorks Animation brings a critical mass of current box office hits to consumers with a line-up of live action and animated films that are perfect for HD DVD," stated Brad Grey, Chairman and CEO of Paramount Pictures, which is currently the leading studio in domestic box office. "Part of our vision is to aggressively extend our movies beyond the theater, and deliver the quality and features that appeal to our audience. I believe HD DVD is not only the affordable high quality choice for consumers, but also the smart choice for Paramount."

"We decided to release "Shrek the Third" and other DreamWorks Animation titles exclusively on HD DVD because we believe it is the best format to bring high quality home entertainment to a key segment of our audience -- families," stated DreamWorks Animation CEO, Jeffrey Katzenberg. "We believe the combination of this year's low-priced HD DVD players and the commitment to release a significant number of hit titles in the fall makes HD DVD the best way to view movies at home."

With the rapid increase of HD TV screens in households, and audiences wanting to enjoy the total entertainment experience, HD DVD has emerged as the most affordable way for consumers to watch their movies in high definition. In addition to pristine quality, HD DVD also offers consumers the chance to personalize the movie-watching experience, to interact with their movies and even to connect with a community of other fans.

Paramount Home Entertainment will issue new releases day and date as well as catalog titles exclusively on HD DVD. Today's announcement does not include films directed by Steven Spielberg as his films are not exclusive to either format.
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Source - http://www.viacom.com/NEWS/NewsText.aspx?RID=1042073

Blu-ray.com
Despite selling more movies on the Blu-ray format, Paramount has announced today that they will begin supporting HD DVD exclusively. This move, rumored to be driven by a $150M exclusivity deal with the HD DVD group, comes after Paramount began favoring Blu-ray releases with higher quality video encodings and more HD features. The deal covers all of Paramount's properties excluding those directed by Steven Spielberg.

The move will inevitably lengthen a format war which should never have been. Consumers will unfortunately suffer the most, as they will be forced to support a format which is being supported by corporations instead of consumers. No word was given as to how long the exclusivity agreement is for, but rumors indicate through 2008.

High definition enthusiasts can now only hope that a DVD-A/SACD situation hasn't been initiated by this decision.
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Source - http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=412


Amazing what $150 million will do.


Scaff
 
For $150 million I'd switch sides too, as they weren’t even making that much in profit from all their HD DVD & Blu-ray sales combined. It's a smart business decision, but it's come a year too late to have a major impact on the format war. The advantages of Blu-ray over HD DVD, the overwhelmingly larger industry and studio support or Blu-ray, and the sales momentum for Blu-ray is simply too great for Toshiba to turn things around, even with Paramount as an exclusive supporter once again.

I'm certainly not concerned. There is already so much on Blu-ray and far more scheduled for release that I wouldn't even have enough time to watch all the HD movies on Blu-ray that I'd like to watch.
 

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